this says a lot about "we the people"

[mightymanx]

My mind is still reeling from this, and if you want your head to hurt read the comments.

all I can say is: "my how the mighty have fallen"

http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/34/31/dtg_poachersbusted_2011_08_06_bk.html

Cops nab bizarre Prospect Park poachers

By Natalie O’Neill
The Brooklyn Paper





Community Newspaper Group / Stephen Brown
Wildlife advocates Anne-Katrin Titze and Ed Bahlman discovered turtle traps last year.



Cops have busted a group of oddball poachers in Prospect Park — a band of vagrants that was trapping and eating ducks, squirrels and pigeons.



Parks officers wrote four tickets — two for killing wildlife and two for illegal fishing — totaling $2,100 in fines during a two-day period last week.

The city would not immediately release details of the incidents, which occurred on July 17 and 18 — just days after park-goers told rangers about a “Beverly Hillbillies”-like scene on the southeast side of the lake, near the ice skating rink.
“This is a dodgy group,” said park-goer Peter Colon, who spotted one of the men catching a pigeon while his friend started a fire. “They are the most threatening people in the park.”
The disheveled — and possibly homeless — tribe in question uses “makeshift” fishing poles and traps to catch the critters, then grills them over the fire, according to park watchdogs.
“One woman uses a net to bag the ducks,” said wildlife advocate Johanna Clearfield.
Wildlife advocates have long pushed the Parks Department to crackdown on illegal hunting and fishing in Prospect Park — especially after a stunning array of cases in which geese and cygnets were injured by illegal barbed fishhooks and lure.
In the most-dramatic case (http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/32/50/32_50_sb_its_no_swan_lake.html), a plucky little goose who lost the top half of his beak (http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/33/47/dtg_cygnetrescue_2010_11_19_bk.html)to a fishhook earned him endless sympathy and the nickname, “Beaky.”
The fishing and hunting ticket blitz comes while park-goers collect and document large mounds of fishing wire, claiming waterfowl are frequently get tangled.
And it’s not the first time that poachers have been busted. Last year, park-goers confronted (http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/33/36/dtg_prospectparkfish_2010_09_03_bk.html)a man after spotting him catching fish and secreting them into a bag — a violation of the city’s “catch-and-release” rules.
After being confronted, the man dumped the dead fish back into the lake.
The new poaching busts bring to mind last year’s wave of animal murders by the so-called “Butcher of Prospect Park,” (http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/33/13/33_13_sb_park_butcher.html) whose death toll included waterfowl, chickens, turtles and a goat.
For now, wildlife advocates were hailing this month’s busts.
“The fact that they’re ticketing is great — it’s so badly needed,” said goose lover Mary Beth Artz. “I hope they keep it up.”


©2011 Community Newspaper Group

[mightymanx]

I get hope for this land when I read things like this:



Pastor GR from VA says:
I don't normally comment on any article, because it's usually an emotional outcry from one side or the other. However, I feel that I must give my 2 cents worth on this one.

I have read so many replies that talked about if they were homeless or couldn't afford food then there are soup kitchens for that, or that they could apply for aide and food stamps. Now understanding that these are completely viable options, I also understand that the premise behind succumbing to this means of provision goes against the principles of what this great Nation was founded on and fought numerous wars to uphold.

How far our thinking has been moved from the days when John Smith said "you don't work you don't eat". What would have happened to the settlers and founders had they waited for a handout. Now fast forward to today's problem we see in our legislature. How much crisis would be averted if someone reminded Americans that their rights of freedom were life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. These are individual rights, not rights for someone else to give to them. Let me "splain" that a little better for some of you. All of these require action on the individual's part. Otherwise are you not merely existing?

I am not condoning the breaking of laws, especially in the case where these laws are in place to protect the God given rights of other individuals. I am saying however that if in fact these folks were homeless and in fact taking their own initiative to feed their families and themselves (all of which is speculation), then I say they should be headlined across America. Saying look citizens of the great United States of America, let these men and women remind us that with ingenuity and self accountability we can and will persevere and continue to be great!



But it is dashed once again by finding that these type of comments are the majority:



Dick from NY says:
Leave it to the Drudge people to dumb the comments down a bit.
We have laws for a reason.
Being homeless does not give one the right to disregard said laws.
Stop blaming Bush and Obama for your problems, they're your own fault. Grow up and accept responsibility.
Maybe the park goes should enforce their own form of justice upon these savages.
I'm sure residents wouldn't complain about the homeless population mysteriously disappearing.

If you can't follow the rules you don't deserve to be a part of society.

[JohnQPublic]

My mind is still reeling from this, and if you want your head to hurt read the comments.



Pretty soon, when you look at an animal and lick you lips, you will be convivted of a thought crime!

[Twisted Titan]

“The fact that they’re ticketing is great — it’s so badly needed,” said goose lover Mary Beth Artz. “I hope they keep it up


There is no revenue to get......... but it will expanded until regular people are criminalized.

[Shami-Amourae]

Found a related article:
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/07/29/police-pursue-prospect-park-pigeon-poachers/

The posters here seem less statist/retarded.


Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr7aosT1UeQ

[mightymanx]

I still can't fathom that people are thinking handouts are better than self sufficiency.

at least some of the people interviewed had reasonable viewpoints.

The wildlife "expert" though is just flat fu#$%ng insane. " ...Maybe these people are starving to the point where they don't have food,but eating our wildlife is not the solution, we need to protect our wildlife." that is just madness.

Man it is going to be long and bloody future.

When the notion of self sufficiency offends people and handouts are the civilized way to exist we as a society are doomed.

[Joe King]

As far as the pigeons go, as far as I know they're one of three types of birds that are not protected, so they should pretty much be fair-game anywhere.
....and they do seem to have a bit of meat on 'em.

The ducks that I've seen in city parks seem moreso to be like the communities "pets", as they're always there. The same ones, over and over, and there's no where near enough of them to sustain a population for all to enjoy if a few people are using them for food.
...and if they're catching them with nets, they're obviously not wild ducks. They were probably purchased at some point by the city and released in the park.

[Dogman]

As far as the pigeons go, as far as I know they're one of three types of birds that are not protected, so they should pretty much be fair-game anywhere.
....and they do seem to have a bit of meat on 'em.

The ducks that I've seen in city parks seem moreso to be like the communities "pets", as they're always there. The same ones, over and over, and there's no where near enough of them to sustain a population for all to enjoy if a few people are using them for food.
...and if they're catching them with nets, they're obviously not wild ducks. They were probably purchased at some point by the city and released in the park.

Here at the city lake there is a population of ducks and geese that stay year round and all breed. Think some of the geese people dropped off years ago, have some ugly Chinese ones. The main population are mallards and every year in the spring , you will see momma and kids doing ducky things around the docks and beach area.

All will come right up to you demanding to be fed if they spot a bread sack. And will eat out of your hand, tho one or two of the ganders get an attitude now and then. (For info: Geese make excellent, alarm systems, nothing gets past them. They will raise holey hell at strangers ;D)

[gunDriller]

this will force the homeless folks to try the road-kill approach.

they'll have to capture live animals & release them near the side of the road.

the ones that get run over, they can claim as Food.

saves the meat-tenderizing step.

[mick silver]

i alway thought if i was to become homeless this is how i would make it by hunting and living off the land .... hell i am already doing this

[Joe King]

(For info: Geese make excellent, alarm systems, nothing gets past them. They will raise holey hell at strangers ;D)


Funny you mention that. It reminded me of one time awhile back I got to hang out with a Nun for a week, and she had an interesting way of dealing with those big 3 foot tall hissing holy-hell raising geese you mentioned that come at you with wings spread wide lookin' like they're about to attack. They can be a bit intimidating, to say the least. lol

She'd let 'em come right up to her and then in one quick twisting montion with her arm, gently grab them by the neck just under their head, holding their head motionless for a couple seconds and then let go.
After which, the difference in their "attitude" was like night and day. Totally calm. It was funny weird. Those geese had never seen her before that day. So it wasn't like they were used to her doing that. Guess you just gotta let them know who's the boss. lol

[Joe King]

i alway thought if i was to become homeless this is how i would make it by hunting and living off the land .... hell i am already doing thisYou're doing it in a sustainable manner on a farm.
From accounts I've heard, in some parts of the country during the great depression deer and other wildlife were hunted nearly to the point of extinction by people trying to stay fed.

That's not good either. Although I realize that people will do what is necessary in order to eat, imagine if one were to really happen all over again. We'd likely end up with no wildlife for anyone to eat if even half the people alive today ever need to start hunting/trapping, just to be able to survive.

[Dogman]

You're doing it in a sustainable manner on a farm.
From accounts I've heard, in some parts of the country during the great depression deer and other wildlife were hunted nearly to the point of extinction by people trying to stay fed.

That's not good either. Although I realize that people will do what is necessary in order to eat, imagine if one were to really happen all over again. We'd likely end up with no wildlife for anyone to eat if even half the people alive today ever need to start hunting/trapping, just to be able to survive. One big eye opener is to install Google earth and look at what can be seen. I use it all the time to poke around the world , for any number of reasons. Look at the area you live and unless you live in a few select areas of the country there are more people than trees.(figure of speech) Population density's and available wooded land where most critters like to hang out and live.

In most places most if not all game animal's would be wiped out very quickly in a shtf situation and people are forced to try and live off the land for meat.

All of the high density areas will quickly become hell holes and can expect major die offs due to hunger and probably killing each other.

Hell in my area before I started cruising the world with goggle maps I thought most of my area was wooded. The joke was on me, wooded strips along highways to give the impression of deep woods but in reality open fields behind them. Many more people than wild critters to feed them.

Low population density areas and states have a much better chance. Use the maps and "fly" around the country, it will be an education.

Fact.

[mrnhtbr2232]

You're doing it in a sustainable manner on a farm.
From accounts I've heard, in some parts of the country during the great depression deer and other wildlife were hunted nearly to the point of extinction by people trying to stay fed.

That's not good either. Although I realize that people will do what is necessary in order to eat, imagine if one were to really happen all over again. We'd likely end up with no wildlife for anyone to eat if even half the people alive today ever need to start hunting/trapping, just to be able to survive.

Assuming half of a disenfranchised population would even have the skills to hunt would be charitable. They can kill, yes, but when it comes time to dress and prepare they will quickly tire of it and turn to robbing others who have done the work for them - that concept encapsulates our world in a nutshell good times or bad. Personally if the homeless are eating feral animals to survive it demonstrates a certain level of self-sufficiency that puts the materialistic standard-bearers in society to shame. Where's the profit in it? Here we have society judging people on their status instead of their will.

Survival is the ultimate test - it exists in a vacuum of truth nothing else come close to. We want to be comfortable on our couches sipping lattes and tell ourselves the modern world is more civilized, when in fact that is an illusion and the very things offending people about taking wildlife (especially without paying tribute) were done for centuries without anyone getting their panties in a bunch. Now it's presented to us by the media as bums eating cute pets ducks when all they have to do is march down to the local shelter for government cheese and lice. If ever there was a parallel to give a man a fish he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats every day this is it and I doubt it will change any time soon. Hope and change you can believe in.

[palani]

This problem was solved 1,000 years ago with the Laws of the Forest, enacted at the same time as the Magna Carta.


A forest is a certain Territorie of woody grounds and fruitfull pastures, priviledged for wild beasts and fowles of Forest, Chase and Warrant, to rest and abide in, in the safe protection of the King, for his princely delight and pleasure, which territorie of ground, so priviledged, is mered and bounded with unremoveable, markes, meetes, and boundaries, either known by matter of record, or else by prescription:

tion: And also replenished with wilde beastes of benerie or Chase, and with great coverts of vert, for the succour of the said wild beastes, to have there abode in: for the preservation and continuance of which said place, together with the vert and Venison, there are certain particular Lawes, Priviledges and Officers, belonging to the same, meete for that purpose, that are onely proper unto a Forrest, and not to any other place.

[Dogman]

This problem was solved 1,000 years ago with the Laws of the Forest, enacted at the same time as the Magna Carta.


Slight problem, this is not england and not the year 1215 when it was first issued and here the king was tossed out on his ear and is toast.

[po boy]

Slight problem, this is not england and not the year 1215 when it was first issued and here the king was tossed out on his ear and is toast.

Also the law of the forest is not part of the organic laws of the USA.

[Santa]

Eewww! Illegal fishing is soooo grossss! I hate going to Parks on water anymore where disheveled homeless people fish illegally.
They stink something awful and I think I saw one wipe fish blood on her pants once.
Fortunately after calling 911 on my iPod4, the police arrived within minutes and arrested that icky old woman after they tazed and beat on her for awhile. Now that was fun to watch.

I'm just so lucky to live in a country founded on the principles of law and order. :)

[Joe King]

Assuming half of a disenfranchised population would even have the skills to hunt would be charitable. They can kill, yes, but when it comes time to dress and prepare they will quickly tire of it and turn to robbing others who have done the work for them - that concept encapsulates our world in a nutshell good times or bad. Personally if the homeless are eating feral animals to survive it demonstrates a certain level of self-sufficiency that puts the materialistic standard-bearers in society to shame. Where's the profit in it? Here we have society judging people on their status instead of their will.
I really doubt the homeless in article are only doing what they are because of their pre-existing and above average hunting skills. They've merely learned to catch easy prey in the quest for free eats. Throw a net over a tame duck? Who can't do that?
...and city pigeons will walk right up to you.

Millions of others could and would do the same in the same circumstances. Farmers livestock would probably become targets too.

If the masses ever have to try surviving that way, there'll be nothing left for anyone, in short order.
Last time around there were a lot less people and as Dogman pointed out, alot more forest for the critters to live in.

[Libertytree]

If they really gave a shit about the animals, not to mention the people, they'd go buy loaves of bread and baloney/ham for the "poachers". Where's the homeless activists?

[BrewTech]

If they really gave a shit about the animals, not to mention the people, they'd go buy loaves of bread and baloney/ham for the "poachers". Where's the homeless activists?

Weren't they being arrested for feeding the homeless?

[Libertytree]

Weren't they being arrested for feeding the homeless?

In this case I thought it was the homeless feeding themselves.

[BrewTech]

In this case I thought it was the homeless feeding themselves.

I was responding to your question concerning the whereabouts of the homeless activists...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4S6v01Sodw

[Libertytree]

I was responding to your question concerning the whereabouts of the homeless activists...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4S6v01Sodw

Ooops....cool

[Santa]

Screw the homeless! They eat our wildlife.

[mick silver]

santa maybe they could just shot them

[Santa]

santa maybe they could just shot them

Yes... and feed em to the pretty fishes. :)

[palani]

Also the law of the forest is not part of the organic laws of the USA.

Better think again on that, ...
CONFIRMATIO CARTARUM [26]
October 10, 1297
http://www.1215.org/lawnotes/lawnotes/cartarum.htm


that our justices, sheriffs, mayors, and other ministers, which under us have the laws of our land to guide, shall allow the said charters pleaded before them in judgement in all their points, that is to wit, the Great Charter as the common law and the Charter of the forest, for the wealth of our realm.

Laws might lie dormant for centuries and because they represent reason be declared back into existence .... I might read the quoted sentence as "the common law consists of the Great Charter and the Charter of the Forest".

[Libertytree]

The law of the forest comes from the barrel of a gun.

[palani]

The law of the forest comes from the barrel of a gun.

Custom and usage. If there were no game laws there would be no game. Laws cited in the Charter of the Forest extend to biblical times. I am positive the population then didn't care much for them either but left to unrestrained hunting there would be no wildlife left.

[Libertytree]

Custom and usage. If there were no game laws there would be no game. Laws cited in the Charter of the Forest extend to biblical times. I am positive the population then didn't care much for them either but left to unrestrained hunting there would be no wildlife left.

I wasn't exactly referring to the little animals :)

[palani]

I wasn't exactly referring to the little animals :) There were few guns in 1297.

[Libertytree]

There were few guns in 1297.

I wasn't referring to 1297 either.

[po boy]

Better think again on that, ...
CONFIRMATIO CARTARUM [26]
October 10, 1297
http://www.1215.org/lawnotes/lawnotes/cartarum.htm


Laws might lie dormant for centuries and because they represent reason be declared back into existence .... I might read the quoted sentence as "the common law consists of the Great Charter and the Charter of the Forest".

Okay, 1215 is not a .gov website.

[palani]

Okay, 1215 is not a .gov website.

Don't you believe that depends upon how you define .gov?

[po boy]

Don't you believe that depends upon how you define .gov?

No, I don't, I believe it matters what the US government states it's laws are.

I cannot see the law of the forest in the code or organic laws of the united states of america.

If you can show that they are recognized by the US government I'd love to see it.

The bible is recognized by the .gov in public law 97-280 but I don't see any law of the forest.

[palani]

No, I don't, I believe it matters what the US government states it's laws are.
You might pick a more responsible example. The US is not now nor ever has been a sovereign entity. This is just stating a fact. Do not look to the system set up in the US as a quality government. When you come to this realization then you might start looking at other examples that DO provide responsible governments.


I cannot see the law of the forest in the code or organic laws of the united states of america. Law is reason. There is reason in the Charter of the Forest.


If you can show that they are recognized by the US government I'd love to see it. It has been altered some but you will find the Charter of the Forest in the laws of the Forest Service and the Dept of Natural Resources. Also in state codes dealing with hunting, wildlife and preserves as well as national parks. As I stated previously law is reason. The REASON is still here.


The bible is recognized by the .gov in public law 97-280 but I don't see any law of the forest. You won't with a closed mind. Many laws are still on the books in one form or another.