gold up $50, silver up $0.50? WTF?

[chad]

for hate's sake, i spit my last breath at thee.

[mick silver]

there pushing money into the stock market ....

[osoab]

Still suppressing? Silver miners have been subdued too.

[chad]

either the largest conspiracy in the world is at work and suppressing it, or it really is worthless. given the current world conditions, that it cannot even break $50 while gold is over $1,700 is simply astounding.

[osoab]

either the largest conspiracy in the world is at work and suppressing it, or it really is worthless. given the current world conditions, that it cannot even break $50 while gold is over $1,700 is simply astounding.

Look at it this way. Silver is still way undervalued and TPTB are keeping it a sale prices for us.

[ximmy]

I'm sure they could hold it down well into a 60's spread... at some point the taffy will split... ;) and BAM! ratio drops to 15@2500.00 He-hee ;D

[Ponce]

To me this is like a beach ball......the harder and deeper that you push it down into the water the faster and the higher that it will jump out of the water............

[chad]

i agree it will probably explode at some point, but when gold is up over $50 in one day and it just sits there...it's just bizarre to watch.

[mick silver]

chad i have though the same thing all morning long

[Ponce]

Well is also bizarre that my English is getting better and better every day... don't you guys think so? hahahahaha

[chad]

chad i have though the same thing all morning long

i'm with you mick. at one point i thought the ino ticker was broken. every time i refreshed gold would go up $5, and silver sat at $38.31 for like 20 minutes.

[mamboni]

Gold is money. Silver is crap. You can dig it out of the ground for under $5 an ounce! Why do you think it's called "the dog?":cool:

[Libertytree]

Gold is money. Silver is crap. You can dig it out of the ground for under $5 an ounce! Why do you think it's called "the dog?":cool:

There is absolutely no reason to be THAT damn hateful! ;)

[Twisted Titan]

for hate's sake, i spit my last breath at thee.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYPsoxpt0BU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Olmstein]

Gold is money.

Silver is an industrial metal.

Gold is higher than platinum right now. Think about that.

[StreetsOfGold]

Someone has already posted this so I am re-posting so that you can see HOW Silver is being plummeled.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSLIDJ3HZHA

[platinumdude]

Days like today make me glad I'm gold heavy.

[Olmstein]

Days like today make me glad I'm gold heavy.

Glad to hear that, platinumdude. I thought we might have to put you on suicide watch.

[Son-of-Liberty]

Price of silver seems to be pretty erratic making very quick upside moves and then back down. Like it wants to run but is being held back.

One of the theories I heard about silver suppression was that they are doing it to help suppress gold. They hope that people will be less bullish on gold if silver doesn't confirm. Much cheaper to smack down silver then try and manipulate gold itself.

[mamboni]

for hate's sake, i spit my last breath at thee.

Two years later, GSUS 2013:

Chad: "Yep, I remember when silver was under $40. $120 silver seems expensive to me - you should probably wait to buy."

Twisted Titan: "$120 silver is a bargain - buy it with both hands and feet!"

1970s Silver Art Bar: "Silver will not pass $200 before the end of this year, dammit, and I'm sticking with that prediction!"

[DMac]

i agree it will probably explode at some point, but when gold is up over $50 in one day and it just sits there...it's just bizarre to watch.


It was bizarre watchnig gold stay flat when silver went up 25% from ~$40 to ~49+.

[Sparky]

Silver and gold go up on speculation of monetization and inflation. Only gold goes up on fear. Today's a fear day.

[V10Silver]

Two years later, GSUS 2013:

Chad: "Yep, I remember when silver was under $40. $120 silver seems expensive to me - you should probably wait to buy."

Twisted Titan: "$120 silver is a bargain - buy it with both hands and feet!"

1970s Silver Art Bar: "Silver will not pass $200 before the end of this year, dammit, and I'm sticking with that prediction!"

From your lips to Gods ears. I think 200 will even below in the not too distant future...We'll be looking at 200 like we look at 20 now,

[madfranks]

The big money isn't interested in silver, they want gold, and like sparky said, on fear days they move their big money into gold. I think that's why silver isn't following.

[Twisted Titan]

it would have been awesome to see both of them make new highs on the same day

[PatColo]

last winter was a good time to be heavy silver. It's a bit like the old fable about the tortoise and the hare - the tortoise is on the move this summer, the hare sleeps.

http://www.screenhog.com/sketch/TortoiseAndHare.jpg

and then there's USD up, LOL

http://www.weblinks247.com/indexes/idx24_usd_en_2.gif (http://www.kitco.com/connectndx.html)


Pt/Pd anyone? talk about dogz!

[Uncle Salty]

If you have read any FOFOA, this makes perfect sense.

Gold is the money of the Giants. Silver is not. Central Banks hold gold, not silver.

Silver will catch up, but one day gold will be repriced and silver will be left behind. Gold at $50,000 will not surprise me at all. The question is will silver keep up? It won't as a monetary metal, but perhaps it will as an industrial metal.

[mamboni]

Silver and gold go up on speculation of monetization and inflation. Only gold goes up on fear. Today's a fear day.


Amen brother!

[Large Sarge]

gold traditionally leads, and silver follows

one of the indicators that an upleg move is ending, is when the roles reverse.. silver starts outpacing gold....

think back to spring, silver was powering to $50, GSR tightened to 30 to 1, etc Silver was having $2 up days, that was the end...

the fact that silver is laying there like a dead fish, shows how big this move is going to be....

[1970 silver art]

Hmmmmm...........I seem to remember a particular day almost like today when silver was lagging gold except that gold was way up while silver was down. I believe that day was April 29, 2011 when gold went way up ( up 18?) while silver was down 0.50. You know what happened to silver that following week in May. :) Hmmmm.......could this be deja vu for the DOG? :)

[mamboni]

I was 50% cash before this crash. My CEF has been lagging gold+silver but I'm sure it will correct in time. I'm about 12% the gold miners - they are getting beaten down a bit but I don't see how they can stay down for long - I'm long! I bought 3000 PSLV this PM - it sitting at the bottom of it's channel; and silver looks ready to spring up big time.

[chad]

the miners are way underpriced. anyone in them should do well. i dumped all of my available cash into my hobby farm, but if i hadn't, i'd be in the miners. mamboni, you should be able to afford many happy endings soon.

[mamboni]

the miners are way underpriced. anyone in them should do well. i dumped all of my available cash into my hobby farm, but if i hadn't, i'd be in the miners. mamboni, you should be able to afford many happy endings soon.

Thanks bro!!!!! I needed that!!!;D

[ximmy]

I was 50% cash before this crash. My CEF has been lagging gold+silver but I'm sure it will correct in time. I'm about 12% the gold miners - they are getting beaten down a bit but I don't see how they can stay down for long - I'm long! I bought 3000 PSLV this PM - it sitting at the bottom of it's channel; and silver looks ready to spring up big time.

excellent move... no cash reserves here...

[Uncle Salty]

Silver is the canary in the coal mine. Must keep his price down. Once it explodes, game over.

[Plastic]

silver looks ready to spring up big time.


It needs a wake-up call and I have just the ticket.

605

[Dogman]

It needs a wake-up call and I have just the ticket.

605


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rb2Pp--yE70


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rb2Pp--yE70

[JohnQPublic]

Silver and gold go up on speculation of monetization and inflation. Only gold goes up on fear. Today's a fear day.

Ultimately, "the dog" will follow its master.

[osoab]

Ultimately, "the dog" will follow its master.


I would rather see it tear itself free of the chains that bind it to the yellow metal.

[1970 silver art]

I like to see silver eventually break free of the JPM shorts "chains". Too bad silver is not quite strong enough this year to break JPM's stronghold yet but its time will come and watch out because if you cannot keep up with the DOG when it breaks free of its JPM restraints, then stay on the porch with your FRNS. :)

[osoab]

Also need to consider that oil has been falling hard. No common correlation with gold currently.

[Serpo]

$75 Silver Looming

By: The Gold Report and David Morgan, Silver-Investor.com (http://www.silver-investor.com/)


-- Posted 8 August, 2011 | Share this article | Discuss This Article - Comments: 3 (http://forums.silverseek.com/showthread.php?threadid=51093)


The new normal could be $75/oz. silver. In this exclusive interview with The Gold Report, David Morgan, editor of The Morgan Report, maps out a path for silver that could sink as low as $5/ounce (oz.) during the summer pullback and then bounce up to $75/oz. to establish a new base level. A consistent Silver Institute Production Cost Standard could help investors make smarter decisions during the coming upswing.
The Gold Report: In your Morgan Report, you have written extensively about the impact of global financial issues on gold and silver prices. At least temporary solutions have been found for the euro-Greek tragedy and the U.S. debt limit debacle. Will this give the U.S. dollar a boost at the expense of precious metals?

David Morgan: It is getting more difficult to predict what the market reaction will be to specific events. As people figure out that there really is no solution to the global financial system without a great deal of pain and some defaults along the road, more will seek the safety of precious metals. So, even when things calm down for the moment, it does not mean the precious metals will not get pushed down. You could see gold and silver react to the downside, perhaps dramatically—$5/ounce (oz.) silver is not entirely out of the realm of possibility. My best guess is we will see some pullback going into mid-August.

TGR: Today, gold hit $1,700/oz. during what is normally a summer slow season. Can this climb continue? What are the drivers?

DM: Yes, it can continue and the driver is uncertainty. Look at all the problems in the currency markets. It seems interbank lending is starting to freeze up in Europe. This was one of the main factors contributing to the financial crisis of 2008. So there is much to consider and it boils down to the fact we are in the final stages of a currency depreciation on a global basis.

TGR: A lot of the economic indicators—GDP and consumer confidence, in particular—are coming in weaker than expected, not to mention the Standard and Poor's downgrade of U.S. debt. Could we see another 2008-style sell-off, and how would that impact precious metals?

DM: Fundamentally, nothing of substance has changed since 2007 except that the banks have lots of money on hand. You have to understand that the silver market has a mind of its own. What happened in 2008 was a silver sell-off that caused a shortage, pushing the physical price of silver at the retail level to around $13/oz. while paper silver traded under $9/oz. on the futures exchanges. Excessive short selling then ran the price from about the $20/oz. level to the brink of $50/oz. The next leg up could take out the $50/oz. level after a few tries and then not look back until establishing a new nominal level of $65/oz.–$75/oz.

TGR: Where is the demand for silver coming from? Is it industrial or investment-driven? Is the developed or developing world pushing the market?

DM: Look East. In July, the Hong Kong Mercantile Exchange launched a U.S. dollar-denominated silver futures contract. It cited "surging international demand for silver" as the cause for the launch, pointing out that silver demand rose 67% domestically between 2008 and 2010. China accounted for almost 23% of the world's silver usage last year. It is now using four times as much silver per-person as it did 12 years ago, but this is still one-fifth the amount used on a per-person basis in the U.S. and Canada. Silver demand is growing for both industry and as an investment.

The game has changed, however. The physical market is gaining control day-to-day and the bankers are finding it more difficult to persuade the market in their favor. This will only add to the volatility.

TGR: How will the new Silver Institute standard help investors assess production cost accounting and make smarter investment decisions?

DM: The silver version of the Gold Institute Revised Production Cost Standard is an attempt to create an apples-to-apples yardstick for silver production across the sector. In the past, companies used different metrics to arrive at cost/oz. estimates. Some excluded royalties, while others ignored shipping refining costs. A significant benefit of the new cost standard is that it helps clarify the use of silver equivalent/gold equivalent ounces jargon. About 70% of silver extraction comes as a result of base metals production. But what happens when a company with very little silver on its property decides to report its silver equivalent ounces? Theoretically, the property could be devoid of silver and still use this term by assigning a "silver value" to its base metals. The silver standard should eliminate that practice.

The standard is a general accounting system. So, by definition, it will not fully address all circumstances that producers in the sector might face. For example, a "pure" silver producer with relatively low base metals production in relation to silver ounces will not be able to post a significant base metals figure under the "byproduct credits" entry. And given that the refinement cost of base metals can be substantially higher (up to 40%) than for silver ore, this disparity could work against a given producer when "Total Production Costs" are tallied. Other disparities that might arise can happen when looking at "payable versus produced" ounces, taxation/shipping costs on the export of doré versus silver concentrate, etc.

The standards are also voluntary. Time will only tell how consistently this reporting process will be followed. It was widely embraced on the gold side. Early indications should be evident this fall, when silver producers begin filing their third-quarter financial statements. However, if investors feel it helps them clarify how much profit a silver producer actually makes from its operations, then it is likely to become a de facto yardstick in such matters.

One word of caution. This, or any measurement tool, should never be thought of as a yardstick that will lead to an investment go/no-go decision. Even assuming that this metric gave a totally accurate picture of a company's silver production costs, it would be unwise to "pull the trigger" just because Company A showed a lower production cost than Company B. What if your lowest cost-of-production company gets nationalized? How about the effects of a major mineshaft collapse on production? I'm just saying that the path to high-probability investment decisions depends on a multiplicity of factors, assigning subjective weighting to each, and then accepting a certain level of risk to compensate for unknowns, no matter how the numbers stack up. Therefore, the more factors that jibe, the more likely one is to have arrived at a "profitable" trading consideration.

TGR: Any final thoughts you would like to leave our readers?

DM: Yes, as economic times continue on a path of increasing stress it is a great time for people to reflect upon true wealth. The old adage that the best things in life are free is a bit naïve in my book. Nonetheless, people can reflect upon family, character, health, contribution and all the things that make us human. Perhaps you could do a thought experiment and ask, “What are the 10 things I value the most that do NOT involve money?”

TGR: Thank you for taking the time to share your ideas with our readers.

DM: Thank you.

http://news.silverseek.com/SilverInvestor/1312836395.php

[beefsteak]

Perhaps some consideration should be given to the professional/bullion bank spread traders' strategies. As a money management tool, spread trading, whether intra-commodity or inter-market spread trading, it is a way lower margin strategy than naked shorting or naked longs.

As such, Long Gold short Silver is a time honored high probability of making the cash register ring faithfully spread strategy in PMs.

The Smackdown at $50 has pretty much put a "limit to risk if one shorts silver" of $8-ish bucks--($10 max)-- on the short leg of this professional spread. So, shorts are piling on in silver, and the floor traders who are short gold, long US Dollar or long some other market leg, are trading for nickels and dimes times size.

Why do I say size? B/C in floor trader/bullion desk trader thinking, that is the ONLY time the G/S ratio is even thought of...in the context of how many silver contracts do I need to short in order to work out of my short gold pain until I can lift that underwater gold short leg.

This is done hundreds of times a day, in order to make a buck to lay against their short gold position that is under water.

Remember, just last week they were sure they could hold gold down at $1590. Then it was $1610. Then it was okay, shorting before Sinclair's $1650 was good. Then it became short $1700 gold. It has blown through all those. And they still have their short leg down in gold.

Why? B/C years of classroom trading modeling, and blackbox algos and personal experience on the trading desk has taught them that they can COUNT UPON a rumor or a well planted bear article in Barrons to lighten the pain. A good central bank gang up on gold will do the same thing for them, and they will be able to lift their short of gold legs they are still holding and trading against to get flat.

Shorting all silver at $42 or under is such a professional floor trader/bullion bank desk time honored strategy.

Just something to chew on instead of chewing "what's wrong with industrial silver."

That's also why Pt and Palladium are "dogs" as well as silver, currently as well. The big boys are all over short pounding PM stocks with their patented short capping strategies--another strategy for another discussion.


beefsteak

[osoab]

crap, oil is about to cross into the 76 handle. What is that 8 dollar drop in a 24 hour period?

[osoab]

I'm seeing 1741 for a high in gold tonight on netdania.

http://netdania.com/Products/live-streaming-currency-rates-foreign-exchange/real-time-quotes/QuoteList.aspx?m=q

[BrewTech]

I'm backing up the truck with some 5 gallon containers, let me tell you what.

[osoab]

seeing 76.26 on oil. Break 75 handle tonight?


edit 30 sec later

hit 75.62 just after I posted.

Something weird is going on.

Edit again

1745 in Au

[mick silver]

there not weird going on . it been put into place what were seeing . the more i see it has to be one of the best rigging jobs taking place in the world . everyone will welcome there fix later this week . mark my words here

[solid]

Gold future's keep going....$1741 right now. Wow!!!

[Dogman]

Quite different from 2008 when if I remember correctly gold took a big hit and oil was hitting new highs.


The world is scared shitless and as someone said on the forum , when scared they buy gold.

[mick silver]

dam gold just lose over a 100 bucks

[Dogman]

dam gold just lose over a 100 bucks

609

Ass wipe! ;D

[osoab]

The world is scared shitless and as someone said on the forum , when scared they buy gold.

Or one of many international banks is currently blowing up.

ZeroHedge is putting a lot of the weakness on the Chinese inflation report.

China CPI Comes Hotter Than Expected At 6.5%: Highest Since June 2008 (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/china-cpi-comes-hotter-expected-65-highest-june-2008)

[osoab]

Seeing 1752 Au on Finviz. 1750 Au on the kitco ticker above.

1650 was so.... Last last Thursday????

http://www.finviz.com/fut_chart.ashx?t=GC&cot=088691&p=h1

[Sparky]

Silver sure isn't gaining any ground tonight. Gold up 2.1%, silver up 0.1%. Ratio now close to 45:1 after getting down to 32:1 in April.

In the last 43 (trading) hours:

Gold up $106 +6.4%
Silver +$1.50 +4.0%

[LuckyStrike]

I think the best mental position is not to worry about it, for several reasons.

1) Who here would sell if it got to 50, 100, or 150?
2) Suppresion allows us to buy more.
3) The longer they manipulate it the bigger the pop will be.

Personally I'm very heavily allocated in silver and silver related assets, from physical to SLW and AGQ. If Silver hits 75 bucks I'll have made good money, if not then I'll make more at work. Short to intermediate term it's impossible to know where the price of the very volatile,very manipulated silver market will be, but in the long term we all know where it will be. Much higher than it is now, and that's all that matters.

[AndreaGail]

Jim Sinclair said once we reach 1764 gold it will go parabolic which was on friday when it was still in the 1660 range

well its sitting at 1762 as I type....well see what happens

edit: 1766 now at 10:09 MST

[beefsteak]

1770.10 new high just posted.

[MarchHare]

Whenever silver is lagging behind a big move in gold, it's usually a pretty good time to buy some silver. I just wish I could afford to pick up some more for myself right now. :)

[Shami-Amourae]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mgi-L4Vxl0M

[osoab]

We are off about 30 from the overnight high.

Here is a rumor for you.

Market talk that Fed was selling Gold (http://forex.fxdd.com/120700/forex-trading/market-talk-that-fed-was-selling-gold)



There is some talk that the Fed was sellling some Gold reserves. This is simply a rumor.
http://forex.fxdd.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/FXDD-PIC-3472.jpg (http://forex.fxdd.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/FXDD-PIC-3472.jpg)

[Cebu_4_2]

I have definitely noticed this as of late... perhaps you have been infiltrated by the enemy?

Well is also bizarre that my English is getting better and better every day... don't you guys think so? hahahahaha

[beefsteak]

As if the FR has anything --let alone good delivery bar gold-- to sell besides debt...what a joke.

But the "rumor" is right on schedule. LOL
PS...nice chart.

[beefsteak]

Whenever silver is lagging behind a big move in gold, it's usually a pretty good time to buy some silver. I just wish I could afford to pick up some more for myself right now. :)
Here's a thought, cruise the local auctions/thrift stores/fleas/swap meets and grab still cheap silverplate.

Desilvering is a lost art, and a great way to acquire cheap silver.

With the pressure in silver by the spread traders, silverbugs still have time to acquire in cheap form instead of bullion w/buyer's premiums.

Lost? Yes.
Re-acquirable skillset? By all means!


beefsteak

[mamboni]

Here's a thought, cruise the local auctions/thrift stores/fleas/swap meets and grab still cheap silverplate.

Desilvering is a lost art, and a great way to acquire cheap silver.

With the pressure in silver by the spread traders, silverbugs still have time to acquire in cheap form instead of bullion w/buyer's premiums.

Lost? Yes.
Re-acquirable skillset? By all means!


beefsteak

Wouldn't the electric used cost more than the silver gained from 'desilverizing' silverplate?

[beefsteak]

Not according to my spreadsheet calcs, Doc. 8.6ckwH here if electrolytically removed. And it takes seconds not minutes even to desilver most items.

An alternative, very VERY low cost method is a controlled desilvering bath of items suspended by copper wire in situ.

I submit if it was cost prohibitive, it would not be employed by those in the silver plating industry. They don't discard screwups...they desilver then place the original item sans its silver, back into the plating circuit.
Capturing the solid fraction/slimes by ordinary filter media from the desilvering baths, and voila.

[mamboni]

Not according to my spreadsheet calcs, Doc. 8.6ckwH here if electrolytically removed. And it takes seconds not minutes even to desilver most items.

An alternative, very VERY low cost method is a controlled desilvering bath of items suspended by copper wire in situ.

I submit if it was cost prohibitive, it would not be employed by those in the silver plating industry. They don't discard screwups...they desilver then place the original item sans its silver, back into the plating circuit.
Capturing the solid fraction/slimes by ordinary filter media from the desilvering baths, and voila.

Fair enough - but a lot of time and effort. I figure you'll need to desilverize garage full of silverplat to accumulate just one silver American eagle's worth of silver, no?

[Neuro]

Fair enough - but a lot of time and effort. I figure you'll need to desilverize garage full of silverplat to accumulate just one silver American eagle's worth of silver, no?

I don't know the average thickness of silver plate, but if one assumes an average of a tenth millimeter, a square meter would have about a 100 cm3, which would be aproximately a kilo of silver if the plate is .925 purity. A square feet of silverplate would thus be around 3 oz, but maybe the tickness is just a hundredth of a millimeter. So that would render it only 0.3 oz per square foot...

[Awoke]

So Gold had a high so far of $1780.80, according to the ticker, and Silver is supressed still, below $40.

Wow. Lame.

[mamboni]

Fair enough - but a lot of time and effort. I figure you'll need to desilverize garage full of silverplat to accumulate just one silver American eagle's worth of silver, no?

Typical thickness of silver plate is no more than 25-30 microns, as in 2-3 hundredths of a mm. The amount of silver is trivial. There is no way this is an economical means of procuring silver. You would have to strip about 500sq ft of silverplate to get something approaching one ounce (of silver).

[Libertarian_Guard]

At this point in time, falling silver prices are a gift!

If I had to sell my silver now, I would be of a different opinion, but this isn't the case.

For me, this is easy to say, but anyone that has somewhere between 20 to 40 percent of their precious metals assets invested in gold, buying silver below $40 is a no-brainer.

The greedy side of me is looking for sub $30 silver, but I may not be so lucky.

[mick silver]

http://www.apmex.com/ChartImages/Chart_Silver_24Hour.jpghttp://www.apmex.com/ChartImages/Chart_Gold_24Hour.jpg

[Libertarian_Guard]

http://www.apmex.com/ChartImages/Chart_Silver_24Hour.jpghttp://www.apmex.com/ChartImages/Chart_Gold_24Hour.jpg

Mick Silver

This is a short term anomaly.

[mick silver]

5 day chart

[JohnQPublic]

When it comes to silver today, I think my avatar says it all.

[JohnQPublic]

Well, with the economy saved by words of wisdom corruption from the Bernank and high flying stocks, silver (and Pd and Pt) should be on the rise again (there is free money to buy them now fur shur).

[ximmy]

Ok I'm in... buying some silver in the next 20 min... :p

[beefsteak]

Typical thickness of silver plate is no more than 25-30 microns, as in 2-3 hundredths of a mm. The amount of silver is trivial. There is no way this is an economical means of procuring silver. You would have to strip about 500sq ft of silverplate to get something approaching one ounce (of silver).

The typical silver plating micron thickness to which you refer is 20 to 30X the "typical gold plating" all kinds of people are busy harvesting currently. Thus the profitability motive underpinning their desilvering pursuits.

Just keep telling yourself desilvering doesn't work. Those who are desilvering will be happy to process what is illogical to you to pursue. Some people are tortoises, Doc.

Not all have the hare-y cash flow available to one in your boat. It's all relative to one's "dock" in life.

I'm not about to discourage those who are desilvering profitably and consistently to stop making money and acquiring silver their way.

[mamboni]

The typical silver plating micron thickness to which you refer is 20 to 30X the "typical gold plating" all kinds of people are busy harvesting currently. Thus the profitability motive underpinning their desilvering pursuits.

Just keep telling yourself desilvering doesn't work. Those who are desilvering will be happy to process what is illogical to you to pursue. Some people are tortoises, Doc.

Not all have the hare-y cash flow available to one in your boat. It's all relative to one's "dock" in life.

I'm not about to discourage those who are desilvering profitably and consistently to stop making money and acquiring silver their way.

Far be it from me to discourage industry and ingenuity: desilver away!!!!!

[JohnQPublic]

A heads up. One poster on Kitco predicted that we will soon see a gold margin rise. He said the swings in price were greater than the margin requirement which is a shoe in for a margin hike.

[JohnQPublic]

Far be it from me to discourage industry and ingenuity: desilver away!!!!!

High Go [da] Silver!!!

[ximmy]

It don't matter to Jesus...

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2006/11/jesus_pederass_lebowski_lg.jpg

[JohnQPublic]

Here is a link on silver plating (http://intatech.com/files/silver.html#_How_does_INTA)
"
What is a good thickness for silver plating?

Depends on the application. The thickness may vary from .00002” to .002” depending on the intended use of the coating. "

(Also, "
How pure is the silver INTA plates with?

99.99%")

That is .5 to 50.8 microns

Here is another interesting one:

http://www.sheffield-cutlery.com/re-plating.html


10 Micron Thickness
(20 Year Plate)
20 Micron Thickness
(30 Year Plate)
30 Micron Thickness
(40 Year Plate)


I calculate 315 grams (10 ozt.) per square meter at 30 micron thickness (.9999 silver), or close to 1 ozt. per square foot.

30 microns x 1m x1m = 30E-6m x 1m x1m = 30 E-6 cubic meters
30 E-6 * 100^3 = 30 cubic cm
30 cubic cm * 10.5g/cubic-cm = 315 grams (per square meter) = 10 ozt. per square meter

1 square meter = 10.76 square feet

10 ozt./10.76 sq. feet = 0.93 ozt. per square foot


1 micron = .03 ozt. per sqft
2.5 microns = .077 ozt. per sqft
5 microns = 0.15 ozt. per sqft
10 mirons = 0.31 ozt. per sqft
20 microns = 0.62 microns per sqft
30 microns = 0.93 ozt. per sqft
40 microns = 1.24 ozt. per sqft
50 microns = 1.55 ozt. per sqft

[Serpo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2_SUGyg8rU&feature=player_embedded#at=548

[beefsteak]

JQPublic,
the real fun--so I've been given to understand--is in calculating area in square inches (144 to the Sq. Ft) of half a silver plated sphere. For example, a silver plated sugar bowl or punch bowl. Might send the lesser inclined screaming for math relief. :D Gives me a headache just thinking about it. ;D

[Dogman]

JQPublic,
the real fun--so I've been given to understand--is in calculating area in square inches (144 to the Sq. Ft) of half a silver plated sphere. For example, a silver plated sugar bowl or punch bowl. Might send the lesser inclined screaming for math relief. :D Gives me a headache just thinking about it. ;D

Figuring out the surface area of the sphere is the easy part, even for the half sphere ,the mind bender is taking in the thickness of the plating and then figuring out how much there is of it. That is the using the radius of the sphere itself, and then subtract the thickness of the coating.

And do the math again for the area of the sphere less coating thickness , that will give the surface area of the inside side of the coating.

Now you have the outside and inside surface area. Now how much material is that?

My head hurts and I probably said it wrong also!

Any takers?

[JohnQPublic]

Figuring out the surface area of the sphere is the easy part, even for the half sphere ,the mind bender is taking in the thickness of the plating and then figuring out how much there is of it. That is the using the radius of the sphere itself, and then subtract the thickness of the coating.

And do the math again for the area of the sphere less coating thickness , that will give the surface area of the inside side of the coating.

Now you have the outside and inside surface area. Now how much material is that?

My head hurts and I probably said it wrong also!

Any takers?

Dogman- you ignore the thickness. Subtracting 6" diameter - .0015*2 = 6" (well ok, 5.997")!

I was thinking about the inside area. You would subtract the nominal total thickness of the bowl.

[JohnQPublic]

JQPublic,
the real fun--so I've been given to understand--is in calculating area in square inches (144 to the Sq. Ft) of half a silver plated sphere. For example, a silver plated sugar bowl or punch bowl. Might send the lesser inclined screaming for math relief. :D Gives me a headache just thinking about it. ;D

Area sphere = 4*Pi*r^2

1/2 sphere = 2*Pi*r^2

r = outer radius

For outside:

Pi*(radius in inches)^2/144 = .02182*radius^2 = square feet = .00545*OD^2

OD = outer diameter
radius = outer radius

For inside:

Pi*(outer radius in inches - bowl thickness in inches)^2/144 = .02812*(outer radius-thickness)^2 = square feet = .00545*(OD-2*thickness)^2 = .00545*(ID)^2

ID = inner diameter

(remember- radius = 1/2 diameter, which is what you measure)! I included formulae for both radius and diameter, but in both cases you need to remember the factor of 2, so I would just use radius (measure OD and cut in half).

[Neuro]

At this point in time, falling silver prices are a gift!

If I had to sell my silver now, I would be of a different opinion, but this isn't the case.

For me, this is easy to say, but anyone that has somewhere between 20 to 40 percent of their precious metals assets invested in gold, buying silver below $40 is a no-brainer.

The greedy side of me is looking for sub $30 silver, but I may not be so lucky.I agree totally w your sentiment. I hope to be able to buy Silver below 30 as well, but I didn't expect Gold to continue doing so well, after the debt ceiling lifting... We are still early though, depends on how serious the Fed are on supplying cash right now. If they monetize a lot, we may see Silver skyrocket soon...

[Dogman]

Dogman- you ignore the thickness. Subtracting 6" diameter - .0015*2 = 6" (well ok, 5.997")!

I was thinking about the inside area. You would subtract the nominal total thickness of the bowl.

Yes if the thickness of the coating is known. But how much material is used?

Then there is the problem of the unknown thickness and how much material is use to coat it.

I did say taking the o.d and then subtract the coating thickness to get the coating i.d , then do the math for surface area. That is the inside surface area of the sphere. But you also have the outside surface area which will be larger than the inside surface area.

So

outside surface area , minus , the inside surface area = volume? of the material? And if you have the volume you can easily calculate the the amount of material used by converting volume into weight or area.

Need aspirin. ;D

Shaking out cob webs.

[JohnQPublic]

Yes if the thickness of the coating is known. But how much material is used?

Then there is the problem of the unknown thickness and how much material is use to coat it.

I did say taking the o.d and then subtract the coating thickness to get the coating i.d , then do the math for surface area. That is the inside surface area of the sphere. But you also have the outside surface area which will be larger than the inside surface area.

So

outside surface area , minus , the inside surface area = volume? of the material? And if you have the volume you can easily calculate the the amount of material used by converting volume into weight or area.

Need aspirin. ;D

Shaking out cob webs.

See my previous posts. It's not that complicated. You can pretty much ignore coating thickness to get a reasonable estimate of the surface area of a sphere since the radius is much much larger than the coating thickness.

[Dogman]

See my previous posts. It's not that complicated. You can pretty much ignore coating thickness to get a reasonable estimate of the surface area of a sphere since the radius is much much larger than the coating thickness.

Agree on coming up with surface area, but I was shooting to figure out how much material is in the coating :D

Edit: Totally missed your top #85 post, must have been working on my first post.

[Joe King]

Agree on coming up with surface area, but I was shooting to figure out how much material is in the coating :D

Here's how you tell how much material is in it.


First, take your silver sphere and carefully place it inside a box.

Then, take the box and deliver it to your nearest refiner and let them tell you how much silver is there. lol

[1970 silver art]

When it comes to silver today, I think my avatar says it all.

As long as silver continues to get suppressed and gets smacked down some more by JPM like it did today, then that will give you more time to load up on it.

[Joe King]

I see a green arrow up there now....so there, Outlaw. lol

[1970 silver art]

I see a green arrow up there now....so there, Outlaw. lol

Hahahahaha............That green arrow will not last. Just stay up a little longer and watch. Once NY trading opens tomorrow morning, then it will probably get smacked down again. More silver smack down is coming IMO.

[Joe King]

Dude....it's up 37 cents since I posted 10 minutes ago. We onna roll, baby!

So there. lol

[Joe King]

...aaand now it's down .13

lol

[1970 silver art]

Dude....it's up 37 cents since I posted 10 minutes ago. We onna roll, baby!

So there. lol

Too early in the game. Just stay up and watch it and see me when it gets smacked down.........DUDE!!!!!!! Hahahahahahaha!!!!!! The green arrow will go away tomorrow morning when NY trading begins.

[JohnQPublic]

Agree on coming up with surface area, but I was shooting to figure out how much material is in the coating :D

Ultrasonic thickness gauge? May be difficult and expensive. Also X-ray back scatter, but this is probably even more expensive (nad may nmot measure higher thicknesses). Pull off test (inaccurate).

http://www.paraelectronics.com/Plating.htm
http://www.komalgroup.com/plating%20thicknesses%20measuring%20instruments.ht m

Here is a general article. (http://www.paintgages.com/The-Fundamentals-of-Coating-Thickness-Measurement-s/64.htm)

Here is an old techniocal guide: http://www.hparchive.com/Boonton/BRC-The-Notebook-09.pdf

Basically you have to have an idea what the thickness is from experience.

[1970 silver art]

...aaand now it's down .13

lol

The "Joe King" effect...............

Stay tuned and continue to eat your popcorn. Hahahahahahah!!!!!!!!! Like I said, there is more downside to go in silver.

EDIT: We will be back to $35.00 silver very soon before it continues to go down and hopefully bottom out at $26.00

[mick silver]

would you guy buy a 100 oz silver bar for 3000.00 it a Engelhard one of there older bars

[osoab]

would you guy buy a 100 oz silver bar for 3000.00


Damn mick, you get some sweet deals.

[mick silver]

i dont have it yet ,,, but the bady will be in my safe in the morning never thought i woulf\d have 10 big bars

[osoab]

i dont have it yet ,,, but the bady will be in my safe in the morning never thought i woulf\d have 10 big bars

use it as a paper weight on your desk. ;D

[mick silver]

hell no .. it gos in a hole i cut in the concret i have a bar that i wish i didnt

[osoab]

hell no .. it gos in a hole i cut in the concret i have a bar that i wish i didnt

dump it for some SAE's or some GAE fracs.

[mick silver]

the bar ove 900 oz

[Neuro]

the bar ove 900 oz
Use it as ballast in your dingy...

[solid]

Use it as ballast in your dingy...

You could try using it as an anchor....though, this didn't work out well for me. Damn anchor.

[osoab]

The world is scared shitless and as someone said on the forum , when scared they buy gold.


Or one of many international banks is currently blowing up.

ZeroHedge is putting a lot of the weakness on the Chinese inflation report.

China CPI Comes Hotter Than Expected At 6.5%: Highest Since June 2008 (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/china-cpi-comes-hotter-expected-65-highest-june-2008)


Is this the bank?

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/pictures/picture-5.jpg (http://www.zerohedge.com/users/tyler-durden)
The Run On SocGen Begins? Bank Down 17% On Rumors It Is On The Verge (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/run-socgen-begins-bank-down-17-rumors-it-verge)




Update: SOCGEN NOT IMMEDIATELY AVAILABLE FOR COMMENT: RTRS. Following earlier news that French CDS hit a record high on a rumor of an imminent French downgrade, the bloodbath in financials, first started in Italy, with 3 consecutive halts in Intesa causing endless headaches for Italin investors, the red tide has now shifted over to France, where SocGen, three years after fooling the Chairsatan that the world was ending and pushing him to cut rates by an unprecedented 0.75% on what was a trader error, now succeeded in getting the chairsatan to extend ZIRP for two years... And still that is not helping. SocGen was down 17%21% as recently as minutes ago, on a repeat rumor that SocGen is indeed on the verge of insolvency, and that it participated in an extraordinary meeting convened by Sarkozy this morning. We are following the story and will let you know if we see any halt in the relentless selling of the bank which is rapidly becoming the next Lehman. Elsewgere, BNP was down over 8%10%, and Credit Agricole about -7.5%9.2%. "If credit default swaps on France are under attack that’s not a good sign,” said Yves Marcais, a sales trader at Global Equities in Paris. “That means that France is under attack and that’s worrisome. French banks hold a lot of French bonds." Translated: another vicious and quite toxic catch 22, stemming from the blow out in French CDS. When will they ever learn?


http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2011/08/SocGen.jpg

[DMac]

c/o Bloomberg:
SocGen Leads Fall in French Banks as Credit-Default Swaps Rise (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-10/socgen-leads-fall-in-french-banks-as-credit-default-swaps-gain.html)

snip


Societe Generale shares slumped as much as 23 percent and were down 16 percent at 21.89 euros at 4:27 p.m. in Paris. Credit-default swaps on the bank rose 29 basis points to a record 299 basis points.

[Sparky]

High today spike to within a dollar of $1800. Yow.

[beefsteak]

Dec COMEX Futures printed $1800, Sparky

[mick silver]

gold 1788.90

[Awoke]

Ticker says gold was at $1799 today. Silver is STILL sub-40.

Assholes.

[beefsteak]

The chart posted by Zero's Durden shows a "flash crash" in gold today, down to almost the $1,700 even area. Lasted for about ZIP seconds, and it was back up. That's a gift to some stuck long bullion bank trader who is sweating it out by shorting silver and trying to spread out of his pain.

[osoab]

Gold Margins raised.

Performance Bond Requirements: Metals, FX, Interest Rates, and Equity Outrights- Effective Thursday, August 11, 2011

Link to actual pdf. http://www.cmegroup.com/tools-information/lookups/advisories/clearing/files/Chadv11-279.pdf

[JohnQPublic]

Gold Margins raised.

Performance Bond Requirements: Metals, FX, Interest Rates, and Equity Outrights- Effective Thursday, August 11, 2011

Link to actual pdf. http://www.cmegroup.com/tools-information/lookups/advisories/clearing/files/Chadv11-279.pdf

Only the mini gold is affected.

See this: http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?52787-gold-up-50-silver-up-0.50-WTF&p=444806&viewfull=1#post444806

[1970 silver art]

Ticker says gold was at $1799 today. Silver is STILL sub-40.

Assholes.

Yeah JPM is doing a very good job of keeping the DOG under $40. Once gold cools off, then watch out because silver will take a bigger beating when gold starts to go down IMO.

[osoab]

Only the mini gold is affected.

See this: http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?52787-gold-up-50-silver-up-0.50-WTF&p=444806&viewfull=1#post444806


That would be incorrect. The 10oz, 100oz, E-MINI, and MINY contracts were all affected.

Check out the pdf of the press release. If I got my numbers correct, about a 19% hike in both the 10oz and 100oz contracts.

[JohnQPublic]

That would be incorrect. The 10oz, 100oz, E-MINI, and MINY contracts were all affected.

Check out the pdf of the press release. If I got my numbers correct, about a 19% hike in both the 10oz and 100oz contracts.\

I keep thinking 100 ozt. is mini, but that is for silver. duh.

[platinumdude]

Gold is crashing big time. The Summer doldrums are here.

[Dogman]

Gold is crashing big time. The Summer doldrums are here. The way things are going , it should not be long before it climbs back to the new high and stay if not pass it.

[osoab]

Gold is crashing big time. The Summer doldrums are here.

Today's action may have more to do with the Swiss Franc.


Swiss Franc Plunges By 600 Pips On Peg Speculation; Will It Succeed? (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/swiss-franc-plunges-600-pips-peg-speculation-will-it-succeed)



All those hoping that in the wilderness of fiat, the Swiss Franc would be to be a safe haven, are getting destroyed today, following speculation overnight that the SNB would implement a euro-swiss franc peg. The result: an unprecedented 600 pip plunge in the two key pairs, the EURCHF and USDCHF, since new overnight highs. The take home: for those seeing a safe haven from central banking stupidity, just go to where there is no counterparty: physical precious metals.

[Awoke]

Well I have to say that I am in disagreement with the Goldbug puritans on this forum.
Gold is money, and Silver is money as well.

It is industrial, yes, but it is money too. Minted, circulated, recognized and accepted throughout history.

Silver is money. Manipulation is manipulation, but that does not change the intrinsic monetary value of silver.

[DMac]

A Tale from Weimar Germany

http://www.safehaven.com/article/5188/a-tale-from-weimar-germany
snip


http://static.safehaven.com/authors/watson/5188_b.gif


For practically all of that five-year period, gold and silver faithfully followed the historic range between 14.17 and 16.10 with one temporary blip to 27 in September 1921. But, lo and behold, the ratio leapt to 160 on the week beginning October 23rd 1923 and stayed there till our price record ends on November 30th 1923!


http://static.safehaven.com/authors/watson/5188_c.png

[osoab]

A Tale from Weimar Germany

http://www.safehaven.com/article/5188/a-tale-from-weimar-germany
snip


http://static.safehaven.com/authors/watson/5188_b.gif





http://static.safehaven.com/authors/watson/5188_c.png


So we are talking a factor of 100 difference on an exponential scale for Weimar?

At that point in Weimar's existence, did the GSR really matter that much?

[JohnQPublic]

Well I have to say that I am in disagreement with the Goldbug puritans on this forum.
Gold is money, and Silver is money as well.

It is industrial, yes, but it is money too. Minted, circulated, recognized and accepted throughout history.

Silver is money. Manipulation is manipulation, but that does not change the intrinsic monetary value of silver.

Silver is both monetary and industrial. It is the damping demand for the industrial component (along with margin requirements) that is holding silver back a little right now.

[beefsteak]

So we are talking a factor of 100 difference on an exponential scale for Weimar?

At that point in Weimar's existence, did the GSR really matter that much?

From one perspective, osoab, YES, it really did matter that much...
to traders,
bullion desks,
governments,
and those holding fiat IOUs in a crappy deutschmarks.

As history has recorded, workers were demanding to be paid by the hour and basically running themselves ragged to get to grocery stores, etc., before prices were adjusted higher again.
Others forewent gold / silver altogether and placed their monies into stock equities in order to keep up. Not many "bullion gold" coins to put money into back in the 20s.


beefsteak