Anyone here contributing to 401k?

[platinumdude]

Just curious if anyone here contributes to a 401k plan to get matching funds. Or you don't because you believe it will still get eaten by higher taxes at withdrawal time or raided/diverted by the government.

[osoab]

I do a token 1%. It is a pittance. Company match is insignificant.

Boss covering 75% of health insurance is much more important even though I haven't used it in 3-4 years.

[solid]

I have a pension from work that the company foots per the union. It's not much, about $350 a month gets put in, but it's added up over time.

I personally contribute to a Roth IRA. I know folks here are against 401k's and IRA's, however I don't think the gov would try and grab a Roth since it's after tax contribution, much like any brokerage account.

[osoab]

I have a pension from work that the company foots per the union. It's not much, about $350 a month gets put in, but it's added up over time.

I personally contribute to a Roth IRA. I know folks here are against 401k's and IRA's, however I don't think the gov would try and grab a Roth since it's after tax contribution, much like any brokerage account.

They are already talking about taxing Roths at distribution time.

Just because they have a law saying that they won't, doesn't mean they won't change the law.

[ximmy]

nope...

[AndreaGail]

never have..never will

[Barbaro]

No, I stopped.

Hidden fees, volatility, possible government absconding.

IMO, It's a scam.

[platinumdude]

They match 50 % up to 8 percent of my salary. I view it as sort of a scam, but I could keep my funds in a money market equivalent and cash out whenever I got laid off. Then there is the 10 percent penalty. So in reality, it's only a 35 percent match. The normal tax rate should be the same. What was mention by Barbaro, the govt can try to steal it away or make you keep it until retirement age.


Not sure if it's worth the risk.

[solid]

They are already talking about taxing Roths at distribution time.

Just because they have a law saying that they won't, doesn't mean they won't change the law.

The whole point to the Roth, is that it won't be taxed at distribution time. Take that away, and there IS no Roth, it's dead.

So, the talk must be about getting rid of the Roth altogether. Perhaps that can happen.

How do you folks perpare for retirement then? Social security is going to be dead, insolvent, etc. Can't put into a 401K, it'll get grabbed. Seems like any IRA is bad news.

[osoab]

The whole point to the Roth, is that it won't be taxed at distribution time. Take that away, and there IS no Roth, it's dead.

So, the talk must be about getting rid of the Roth altogether. Perhaps that can happen.

How do you folks perpare for retirement then? Social security is going to be dead, insolvent, etc. Can't put into a 401K, it'll get grabbed. Seems like any IRA is bad news.

Solid, they can change any law they create.

As far as retirement, I don't think our generation will retire as it is known today.

[solid]

Solid, they can change any law they create.

As far as retirement, I don't think our generation will retire as it is known today.

I hear ya, Osoab. If they changed the law on the Roth, I'd be OK with it actually. The roth would be gone, but it would just make those funds the same as any brokerage account. It wouldn't be a retirement fund, but just like any other traded fund. It was all taxed already anyway. So, nothing would change there. If they grabbed roth IRA's, they would grab any individual account because they are the same thing actually.

They may as well grab personal savings accounts too. You want to see riots? TPTB can sure create them if they want.

[chud]

I think the end is near. A while back I made a comment to my wife that I would probably be better off cashing out my 401K, taking the tax hit, and buying gold. I never did it though. Today she said she had thought about it, and she thinks it would be a good idea.
My wife doesn't pay much attention to the news, or the markets. So to me, this indicates that things are getting really bad. Up to now, the common man hasn't gotten in on the gold rally, but I think that's about to change. Gold is gonna go through the roof as regular people start to cash out and buy in.

[vacuum]

As someone in my 20s, it doesn't make any sense at all to contribute to a retirement account, imo. For people closer to the cash-out age, it might make more sense.

[LuckyStrike]

I save for retirement through a variety of vehicles, a 401k not being one of them.

My wife has a 401k plan offered at work, but it's crap, the matched deposit doesn't outweigh the fact that you get like 5-10 mutual funds to park the cash in. I'm not into giving interest free loans to mutual funds which have gone nowhere in a decade priced in dollars, and priced in anything else have gone down 50% in real value.

[Hatha Sunahara]

I cashed out my IRA a few months ago. I got caught up in the fear that the government will forcibly convert IRAs into US Treasury Bond parking lots. Like they did in Argentina. My IRA was self--directed and invested entirely in PM mining stocks. When I withdrew it, I just moved the money into a non-tax deferred account, and bought the same mining stocks with the after tax money. What I pay in taxes will be with money that is worth less than what I took out of the IRA, so when you think Inflation will crank up, dump your IRA or 401K and don't pay all the taxes at once--do it slowly. Give the government money that is as worthless as they are making it.


Hatha

[1970 silver art]

I currently contribute to a 401-K at work. I have been doing so for 8 years, however, most of my balance is currently in a "stable value" fund. Earlier this year, I moved about 90% of my 401-K balance from an S&P 500 stock index fund option into the "stable value" fund option when the S&P 500 was at about the 1350 level. I contrubute 3% to my 401-K (and I get matching from my company) but I still put those new contributions into the S&P 500 index mutal fund option because I am not contributing that much into it so it will not make much difference to me if the S&P 500 falls another 30-40% (or more) from these current levels because I have a small portion of my 401-K in that S&P 500 Index fund. I can sleep better at night with this current asset allocation given the current stock market enviroment (i.e. bad stock market).

[Twisted Titan]

I know some people are forced into them as a condition of employment and you cant do. anything with it unless retired ,fired or quit.


but barring those options it is absolute insanity to have a 401k

The penalty for early withdrawl wont even be remembered when the hellstorm brewing in washinton is finally unleashed on the masses.

even if you didn't purchases pm's with it .....you are safer holding physical cash in your possesion stuff unde the bed. and those that have problems spending you can get postal money orders ( I did that one time and saved almost 5 grand without even knowing)

bottom line: removes as many barriers as possible from between you and your money

[mamboni]

My corporation contributes to a self-directed Keough on behalf of me and my partner. I contribute because if I didn't half of it would go to income taxes anyway. If the government siezes it someday so be it - I don't count on it. Presently, I have been able to grow it to seven figures and approximate allocations are: 40% cash (USD), 30% gold and silver bullion, 20% gold miners, 9% oil ETF and 1% Medical stock (to placate my broker/advisor)

[horseshoe3]

How do you folks perpare for retirement then?

What's the name of the forum?

[horseshoe3]

I'm thinking along the same lines as platinumdude. With a 50% match, I'm willing to take the risk. I'm not thinking of it as a retirement plan, as I plan to cash it out the day after I leave this job, just like I did the last time.

I find it helpful to run the numbers on each scenario:

Scenario 1: No 401k. Each marginal dollar is taxed at 25% so I get $.75 on the dollar.

Scenario 2: Put in 401k up to limit of 50% match. Each dollar becomes $1.50. Assuming the market is flat until I pull out, I will pay $.375 tax and $.15 penalty so I get $.975 on the dollar.

Of course the market will go up or down, but it would have to go down 23% before I start to lose money. That's a definite possibility, but I'm willing to take the risk on a small amount of money.

[platinumdude]

If I do it it will be in a stable bond fund that generates very little interest but will not go down in value unless the government defaults.

I could put it in silver bullion instead but I wont get the guaranteed(unless govt default) 35 percent gain.

I just have to hope to leaving or changing jobs before a major shtf event.

[Sparky]

I do. I get 100% employer match, and a choice from hundreds of funds, including precious metals. Yes, it will get taxed in the future, but probably similar to what it would be taxed now. (The bracket rates may be higher in the future, but I'll probably be in a lower bracket, so it will be a wash.) Worst case is the funds get taken over by the gov't and converted to an annuity, but even then it would be worthwhile considering the employer match.

Remember, you also have to be prepared in case TWAWKI doesn't end...

[horseshoe3]

Remember, you also have to be prepared in case TWAWKI doesn't end...

I have to remind myself of that from time to time.

[JJ.G0ldD0t]

Yeah there's truth in that.... I still don't really want to rely on the casino to keep me sustained after I retire.

I tried to get out of my 401k in 2009 but found out that I had to have a "life change" event (think that's what they called it) in order to get MY money:mad:

By November - I had one- got laid off. Good news was I could cash out. Paid down some debt and bought metals.

I was only un-emp for a couple months. Back in the saddle at a really good gig right now.

[platinumdude]

Yeah there's truth in that.... I still don't really want to rely on the casino to keep me sustained after I retire.

I tried to get out of my 401k in 2009 but found out that I had to have a "life change" event (think that's what they called it) in order to get MY money:mad:

By November - I had one- got laid off. Good news was I could cash out. Paid down some debt and bought metals.

I was only un-emp for a couple months. Back in the saddle at a really good gig right now.

Did you start up a new 401k?

[JJ.G0ldD0t]

I did not. I wanted out.

[platinumdude]

I think I will avoid the 401k at least for now. Too much doom in me. Doesn't mean I won't save for retirement, just more liquid areas like silver or even higher interest bank account. Maybe I won't have so much doom next year.

[Awoke]

If by "contributing to a 401k plan" you mean "Stocking up on preps and ammo", then yes. I am.

[Grog]

I currently contribute to a 401-K at work. I have been doing so for 8 years, however, most of my balance is currently in a "stable value" fund.

Same here. My employer matches up to 6% so I contribute that amount and put it in the stable value fund. I've piled up a nice stash there over the years. I will withdraw it and take the 10% penalty and tax hit when I leave the company. The employer match will more than make up for the tax hit. Our plan allows for personal loans from 401k, basically you pay your account interest. funny but it is handy. I used that to buy a bunch of silver in the $12.00 range a few years ago. :) Now I've got the silver and the money is back in the 401k.

[1970 silver art]

Same here. My employer matches up to 6% so I contribute that amount and put it in the stable value fund. I've piled up a nice stash there over the years. I will withdraw it and take the 10% penalty and tax hit when I leave the company. The employer match will more than make up for the tax hit. Our plan allows for personal loans from 401k, basically you pay your account interest. funny but it is handy. I used that to buy a bunch of silver in the $12.00 range a few years ago. :) Now I've got the silver and the money is back in the 401k.

Yeah I plan to withdraw it and take the tax hit whenever I leave the company. The only problem for me is that I do not know when I will leave (voluntary or involuntary) the company.

[StreetsOfGold]

I personally contribute to a Roth IRA.

The rumor is that the term ROTH IRA was coined by a very top secret society (of jews, of course) to say that this really belongs to the ROTHschilds. Just a rumor.. though