how do you order an assay test?

[chad]

i have a bunch of rocks i dug out of an old goldmine in ontario this summer. lot's of gold looking flakes in them. i'm interested in having them tested just to see how much, if any, gold is in them. just out of curiosity mostly. anyone know how to do this?

[crazychicken]

If you want to send a couple of small samples i'll do a solvent extraction run on them. It is a simple thing to do. If you are curious if I am fishing for gold please look at the very first posts in the mining section of this forum. Please see pictures of my portable solvent extraction systems.

The material in the sep funnel is 99 fine sponge gold. It is how we live, if we had any gold, of course.

Otherwise look up "Umpire Assayers". The list should give you some ideas.

CC

[chad]

just pm'd you...

[Libertytree]

Wow CC! That's a crazy lookin' rig but I'm sure it's the cat daddy. Great knowledge to have, kudos.

It's kinda funny but I was going to suggest to Chad that he contact beefsteak as I know he's fluent in this regard and as you can see this thread piqued his interest :)

[beefsteak]

Chad,

I was just getting ready to respond to you, but I am swamped with work right now. Glad to see crazychicken step up to take care of your request.

One point if I may. Many of us are going to be curious as to the assay results, and a general description of the ore host, whether it is quartz or a complex ore, for example.

Would you consider giving written permission to crazychicken to post your results in such generic terms? Also, with a pix of the ore host? No one needs to know anything about WHERE you found it, altho' I'm certain that is of interest to a great many as well. LOL. That major PROTECTIVE omission is absolutely recommended!

Thanks for considering this request. All assayers know it the norm for NOTHING to ever said by the assayer without explicit permission from the owner of the sample. Those of us who do this for others would never be able to stay in business beyond the first assay if we blabbed to ANYONE!

Over and above all, if crazychicken determines you have values, would you please remember, safety first and foremost when you go back into the mine? This is rule #1! Safety!


beefsteak

[chad]

hey, no problem. he can post whatever he finds. the more the merrier.

the old mine is located near the jack knife river up by the top part of lake nipagon (couple hundred miles north of thunder bay). i'd tell you the name of the mine, but i don't know it. some old local guys (in their eighties) told me about it & drew me a map of how to get to it.

there's an old mineshaft with a bunch of slag thrown about. here are some pics of the rocks i took home:

http://i55.tinypic.com/2942rm0.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/awde35.jpg

in photo #2 you can see what i assume to be gold. all of the rocks are full of little chunks like that.

[beefsteak]

The material in the sep funnel is 99 fine sponge gold.



http://gold-silver.us/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=852&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1314378231

CC


CC, so THAT's what Carlin Trend Gold Looks like. ;D

Gonna hafta rename you, "Crazy 'Carlin' Chicken." ;D

It's a little hard to see from your ring stand which ml sep you're using? Mind giving me a hint? I'm guessing either a 500 or a 750. What say you?

I loved your disclaimer, "....if you had any." THAT was great! 8) Sweet pricing currently, eh? Makes one a little hesitant to "sit on the final product" at these prices!


beefsteak

[chad]

beefsteak, just curious as to what you and CC think by looking at my pics? does that look like gold? i am just assuming it is, what since it came out of a gold mine and all. the rocks are kind of tinged red, but it's some type of oxidation i think. they're kind of grey if you rub off/scrape/scrub the red dust that's on them. well, beats me. in googling around, i find a rock called rhyolite that looks like what i have.

[beefsteak]

Thanks for the pix, as we all watch with interest. Nice work if you can find "it." ;D


beefsteak

[beefsteak]

Chad, do you own a pocketknife, and a goldpan? Scrape it and pan it and see for yourself, while you're waiting for CCC to get after your samples. You may be frustrated, and you may be surprised. Depends upon your scrapes and your skill at panning.

If you decide to play around, a couple of tips okay? 1) get yourself some copper colored BBs, and 2) make up a tiny vial with a screw lid, of either Jet Dry or Dawn Dishwashing soap, the old fashioned blue kind of Dawn--if you can still find it.
(PS: Shakely's Basic 8 will also do, as will Amway's L.O.C.)

Just placing your fingertip on the top of either the JD/D bottles' opening and then swishing your finger in the pan, will be enough to break the surface tension and allow the lighter gold--if it is gold--to sink.

The BB's are a confidence builder for a new panner. If the BBs stay in one's pan, so will the gold you're hunting for, is that rule of thumb.

I've worked up my share of ore over the years that looks like and it has mostly been "no-see-um" gold bearing if there is gold in that ore. I'm not really accustomed to seeing it sitting up like that on a surface. But that's what makes it interesting. I'm seeing a contact zone in the red circled zone, but it's really hard for an assayer to guess by viewing images. So, that's as far as I'll go in the guessing dept. okay?

CCC is a good man, and he'll do right by you, I have absolutely no doubt. Nothing we say here will influence his outcome. Assayers learn to be objective and not subjective. Many a thing in life can be "influenced" by one's hopes or dreams. Assaying is NOT one of those things.


beefsteak

[chad]

cool, thanks for the input. i'm sending him one of the rocks on monday, so we'll see what he comes up with. i'm going to smash one of these up this weekend when i get a chance and see what i can find. it'd be a trip if it really was gold. there are literally huge piles of these laying around right next to the lake and right inside the mineshaft. maybe i should start bringing them home more often :D

[crazychicken]

Easiest initial method to determine gold. Take a tiny portion of the suspected "stuff". Put it in a heavy shotglass or thick ceramic or glass dish. Put a knife blade on it and try to "cut" it. If it shatters it most likely isn't gold. If it deforms and appears somewhat soft there is a good chance it is at least partly gold Look at it under a strong magnifier. Gold is malleble, meaning soft. If the pieces have sharp cubical form they are more likely pyrite--fools gold. With that said I have seen pyrite carrying 30%, so use the test I just shared as an initial test only, an indicator.

[beefsteak]

Good points, CCC.

Speaking of cubic gold, I had the unpleasant task of telling someone who bought a bezel filled with some weird looking "gold" that it wasn't and I didn't even have to assay it. I just louped them all after disassembly, and found one where the "gold plating" scam operation didn't take. Clear as daylight. I put it under the scope and showed him. He was not a happy camper.

I understand the dude is going to go after the ebay seller and get his money back under that protection plan deal they have going so I've been told. I told him I'd be happy to sign anything he needed if he was asked for proof from a 3rd party.

Supposed to be an old bezel, and yet there wasn't a scratch on the crystal from the rocks tumbling around in there.

Oh, and the other part is the rocks were supposed to weigh about 2.1 grams estimated? Came in a .40 grams. And the first thing I noticed was that they were cubic in shape, and some of them had "sawmarks" like someone had been shaving scrap brass as well, just to mix it up within the bezel. >:D

Took some pictures of the not totally gp covered piece. I'll mess around this weekend and see if I can find and enlarge them and then post them.

I'm willing to bet eBay is going to have to put on extra staff just to keep up with the gold scammers who are coming out of the woodwork. It will only get worse as the price continues higher.


beefsteak

[beefsteak]

Wow CC! That's a crazy lookin' rig but I'm sure it's the cat daddy. Great knowledge to have, kudos.

It's kinda funny but I was going to suggest to Chad that he contact beefsteak as I know he's fluent in this regard and as you can see this thread piqued his interest :)

LOL, LT. You could tell, huh....

[crazychicken]

That separatory funnel is a 2000 mL---2 liter. It is Teflon. Cheaper ones are glass, but not worth a damn for gold.

CC


CC, so THAT's what Carlin Trend Gold Looks like. ;D

Gonna hafta rename you, "Crazy "Carlin" Chicken." ;D

It's a little hard to see from your ring stand which ml sep you're using? Mind giving me a hint? I'm guessing either a 500 or a 750. What say you?

I loved your disclaimer, "....if you had any." THAT was great! 8) Sweet pricing currently, eh? Makes one a little hesitant to "sit on the final product" at these prices!


beefsteak

[beefsteak]

Thanks for that enlightening detail. Just goes to prove one can't tell somethings by looking at a pix w/out some "known" to give a size reference. My volumetric guess was obviously waaaay too conservative. Thanks, CC

[crazychicken]

Chad-your pictures are interesting. May throw you off some but I find the oxidized material as much if not more interesting than your circled "sparkly".

CC



hey, no problem. he can post whatever he finds. the more the merrier.

the old mine is located near the jack knife river up by the top part of lake nipagon (couple hundred miles north of thunder bay). i'd tell you the name of the mine, but i don't know it. some old local guys (in their eighties) told me about it & drew me a map of how to get to it.

there's an old mineshaft with a bunch of slag thrown about. here are some pics of the rocks i took home:

http://i55.tinypic.com/2942rm0.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/awde35.jpg

in photo #2 you can see what i assume to be gold. all of the rocks are full of little chunks like that.

[chad]

it's in the mail, let us know what you find :D

[crazychicken]

All right!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cc

[crazychicken]

Chad--The recovery is done--Now if I can just get the camera figured out I'll send you a picture. The rock was worth doing--Damn well worth doing.

PM an address. I mail your gold back to you. It is .99.

Sorry for the delay. The ranch keeps us pretty busy. But I don't think you will disappointed.

Suggestion: Don't tell ANYONE where the rock came from, try to claim the property, and see if you can get more rocks.

CC

[Dogman]

Chad--The recovery is done--Now if I can just get the camera figured out I'll send you a picture. The rock was worth doing--Damn well worth doing.

PM an address. I mail your gold back to you. It is .99.

Sorry for the delay. The ranch keeps us pretty busy. But I don't think you will disappointed.

Suggestion: Don't tell ANYONE where the rock came from, try to claim the property, and see if you can get more rocks.

CC


LOL

That post of yours just lit off radar receivers around the world.

Sort of like having a kitchen full of dogs that know real steak & bones, is for dinner, but trained to sit until the word is said.

LMFAO


1061

[osoab]

cc, just out of curiosity, what was the grams/ lb of sample?

Chad, no worries for me heading to Canuck-land. I don't think they will let me in.

[crazychicken]

I need Chad to give the OK to pass the info. No offence intended, it is just how we do our business.

CC

[osoab]

I need Chad to give the OK to pass the info. No offence intended, it is just how we do our business.

CC


understood.

[chad]

cc, sending you a pm right now. i really appreciate the effort you took doing this. feel free to post anything you found (except the mine location ;)

all right detroit!

[E. Haney]

Chad--The rock was worth doing--Damn well worth doing.

.....
Suggestion: Don't tell ANYONE where the rock came from, try to claim the property, and see if you can get more rocks.

CC

I am quite interested in the method you used to determine that these rocks are "Damn well worth doing", and go on to say he should stake a claim. Not the chemistry aspect, but the 'value' as it were. It seems Chad sent you some rock, you've applied your science and make it seem he's hit the motherload. It's a bit preposterous to say that about a rock or two that contains visible 'gold', certainly the rocks you had recieved may be worth doing, but to suggest every rock there is packed with gold is, I won't say dishonest, but bad info at the least.
To be honest, it seems as if you would claim Pismo Beach to be damn well worth it if I found a Kuggerand on the shoreline.

[Joe King]

Well, he did say....
it'd be a trip if it really was gold. there are literally huge piles of these laying around right next to the lake and right inside the mineshaft

Now, exactly how huge the "huge piles" are, who knows. But if it's an old mine, it could very well have some gold left.
I say good for Chad if it does. He just needs to make sure it isn't already claimed.

[Dogman]

Well, he did say....

Now, exactly how huge the "huge piles" are, who knows. But if it's an old mine, it could very well have some gold left.
I say good for Chad if it does. He just needs to make sure it isn't already claimed. Probably were tailings that at the time were not worth messing with to extract the gold in them.

Thars still gold in dem old hills!

[beefsteak]

I am quite interested in the method you used to determine that these rocks are "Damn well worth doing", and go on to say he should stake a claim. Not the chemistry aspect, but the 'value' as it were. It seems Chad sent you some rock, you've applied your science and make it seem he's hit the motherload. It's a bit preposterous to say that about a rock or two that contains visible 'gold', certainly the rocks you had recieved may be worth doing, but to suggest every rock there is packed with gold is, I won't say dishonest, but bad info at the least.
To be honest, it seems as if you would claim Pismo Beach to be damn well worth it if I found a Kuggerand on the shoreline.

Eustace,
Suggest you strongly consider sitting in the corner and learning. Insulting, insinuating etc., that you know more than an established gold mining partner with the lab and the tools to do competent assay work is just not a high percentage reaction on your part.

CC can stick up for himself, I'm sure he doesn't need me defending him.

For a 3rd post ever on this forum, you sure stuck your foot in it this time, EH.

[crazychicken]

Mr Haney--does seem appropriate---Please READ carefully. I said-quite clearly--"BASED ON THE ROCK" he sent. I thought that was pretty damn clear, at least to some. I didn't think it was confusing. When you find values you make claims on the sites if they are available. Claiming doesn't cost ZIP. Then you have time to properly evaluate for the next step. For the relative pennies it costs to claim it is better to protect yourself from loss.

"It is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and confirm it"

Mr Haney was the resident snake oil salesman/jackass on Green Acres--right?

CC

[Dogman]

Eustace,
Suggest you strongly consider sitting in the corner and learning. Insulting, insinuating etc., that you know more than an established gold mining partner with the lab and the tools to do competent assay work is just not a high percentage reaction on your part.

CC can stick up for himself, I'm sure he doesn't need me defending him.

For a 3rd post ever on this forum, you sure stuck your foot in it this time, EH.

Thought of making a post like you did beef! But let it pass!

Eustace were you in this movie?

http://www.wildaboutmovies.com/images_6/how_to_lose_friends_and_alienate_people_2.jpg

[E. Haney]

Eustace,
Suggest you strongly consider sitting in the corner and learning. Insulting, insinuating etc., that you know more than an established gold mining partner with the lab and the tools to do competent assay work is just not a high percentage reaction on your part.
Insulting? I just asked how he came about claiming these rocks were 'valuable'.
His methodology is the same as my last paragraph, saying this pile of rocks are full of gold and worth claiming is the same as if Newmont drilled a single bore hole that by luck happened to be straight through a miniscule vein of gold and layed claim to 100 square miles of dirt. You simply cannot do a proper assay on a few rocks and claim every rock is peppered with gold.




CC can stick up for himself, I'm sure he doesn't need me defending him.

I am well aware you and Crazy Chicken have or wish to have an extractive relationship, but you are correct, I shall wait for his post before forming an opinion.



For a 3rd post ever on this forum, you sure stuck your foot in it this time, EH.


Insulting, insinuating etc., that you know more than an established gold mining partner with the lab and the tools to do competent assay work is just not a high percentage reaction on your part....
...For a 3rd post ever on this forum, you sure stuck your foot in it this time, EH.
I am not too sure about that, it seems you are judging my competence on 3 posts and the fact you know nothing about me or my background, yet you feel I am out of line for questioning Crazy Chicken's methods and/or competence from over 800 posts.

[E. Haney]

Mr Haney was the resident snake oil salesman/jackass on Green Acres--right?
CC

Seems to me you are well aware of the term 'Snake Oil Salesman', perhaps it's because you are one as well, it's real nice of you to do these determinations gratis, but let's be honest, you do it to sell your 'magic potions'.
If you were such an upstanding fellow, perhaps you should just provide the information on making the 'Leachs', 'Collector', or 'Stripper', instead of making up fancy names and selling them at inflated prices.
And as for your competence, a PTFE separatory funnel, I believe you mean polyethylene (Nalgene™), and the fact finely divided gold sticks tenaciously to plastics, glassware is a better choice. But hey, you are the 'smart one' around here.

[beefsteak]

I am well aware you and Crazy Chicken have or wish to have an extractive relationship, but you are correct, I shall wait for his post before forming an opinion.


Eustace,
you are wrong. Again.

I do not now, never have, nor will I seek an "extractive relationship" with Chad nor his rocks. I was recommended as a potential referral resource by LibertyTree, who's like a son to me in many ways. But that's a long ways from "seeking an extractive relationship" with anyone on this forum.

The more you write, the deeper you are digging the hole.

I could care less if you have a torch, a furnace or a cigarette lighter as tools. From what I've observed in now 5 posts, I wouldn't share skunk stench with you. The skunk is at least a visible and immediately identifiable polecat who makes his presence and qualifications known from the moment of the first sighting...


beefsteak

[beefsteak]

thought of making a post like you did beef! But let it pass!

rotflmko

[Dogman]

rotflmko


k? As in kilt?



1090

[chad]

just for the record, crazy chicken did this at no cost to me, provided me with some valuable info, and is sending the gold he recovered back to me. he didn't get anything out of this other than wasting his time on some guy he has never met from wisconsin.

i guess a good deed never goes unpunished.

[beefsteak]

Keester...ladies are present here at my house.

[Joe King]

i guess a good deed never goes unpunished. .
Nope. Never does. lol

[crazychicken]

Your tracking number is in your PM box.

CC

[horseshoe3]

WOW!! On several subjects. WOW!!

CC, now that Chad has given permission to discuss, I think there are a lot of us interested in your findings. This is the kind of stuff I like to see on this site. Discussing the conspiracy and recycling Drudge report links only keeps my attention for so long. This stuff is INTERESTING.

This thread has it all - technical and historical discussions of mining and assaying, a member potentially getting rich, and some newbie attacking a well respected member.

[crazychicken]

With any luck the gold recovered should be in Chad's hands later today. Depending on wether the Post Office is as competent as usual. After he gets it then I am all for what you, and others, are asking for.

I could not get any pictures to cross over into my computer. I sure hope Chad is better at that than I am.

Looking forward.

[Joe King]

Horseshoe3's right. This is interesting. I can't wait to hear more.

[chad]

i cuoldn't get any very good pics to come out as the material is really, really, small. here's one. keep inmind that this is shot on my canon g9 in super macro mode. it looks like a nugget, but in real life this piece is probably the size of the period on your computer's keyboard. there were a few like this, then some really small dust that didn't show up at all in photos. it would probably all fit on the head of a pencil eraser with room to spare.

also, i should not that cc was kind enough to include some of his own material for me to compare with. nice, eh?

the size of the rock i sent cc was about the size of a baseball i'd say.

cc, one thing i'm curious about, what type of rock was that? it didn't look like granite to me. any ideas?

http://i55.tinypic.com/28i3znm.jpg

[Dogman]

Spill it.....grin

Evidently ounces per ton was outstanding.. do what was said lay a clame on it if you can..
In the old days if they could not see it it was not worth it.

If not make a midnight raid with friends with dump tucks and load up

Thairs treasure in them dam darn hills , yet!

[chad]

Spill it.....grin

Evidently ounces per ton was outstanding.. do what was said lay a clame on it if you can..
In the old days if they could not see it it was not worth it.

If not make a midnight raid with friends with dump tucks and load up

Thairs treasure in them dam darn hills , yet!

really? i mean this is REALLY SMALL. i had to get the camera lens almost on top of it (hence the blurring). i'm serious, it's really small.

[Dogman]

really? i mean this is REALLY SMALL. i had to get the camera lens almost on top of it (hence the blurring). i'm serious, it's really small. As you know small things add up...and in the old days there might have been gold in the rock, but not worth the effort to extract, now it is a whole different reality.

May I die If I lie..

[chad]

As you know small things add up...and in the old days there might have been gold in the rock, but not worth the effort to extract, now it is a whole different reality.

May I die If I lie..

thanks for the vote of confidence! i'm new to this "prospecting + mining thing." i have to admit, i know nothing about it other than the location i've found. it's pretty fun so far :D

[Dogman]

thanks for the vote of confidence! i'm new to this "prospecting + mining thing." i have to admit, i know nothing about it other than the location i've found. it's pretty fun so far :D Seeing that the assy test has not been published , you are thinking .!


Now legal,???

Is a hell of a note..

But all is good in war/love/ and wealth..

What ever you do do it low key, and could care less, if you try the legal way.

If there is a big pile of rock, that you picked from, hehehe,,make like a bandit and still act like you have not a clue.

The thing is your pile is off the radar, keep it that way!!!!!!

[E. Haney]

...
the size of the rock i sent cc was about the size of a baseball i'd say.

A few questions (I promise to play nice).

Were you provided an assay, i.e. gold and silver content per ton?
Or perhaps a weight of the gold CC extracted?

Through some extrapolation, a baseball sized rock (granite or quartz) weighs approx. 640 grams, or 1420 baseball sized rocks per ton.
Using a figure of 100mg Au (what it appears you had returned, though that is extremely difficult to determine through forum photos), and if the yield if all rocks averaged the same, the gold content (Which is why I asked CC how he came about determining your rock was "Damn well worth doing" and proceeded to get my ass chewed for that question) would be 4.5ozt/T or about $7500 at the time of this post.
Subtract from that your costs of transport and processing each ton to derive your actual profit.

[Dogman]

What sock or better what other names have you used, ?

You are not a newbee, I think you have been baned more than once, at the forum I will not name or here.

Who are you ? Post a lot more so your style shows.

[E. Haney]

In the old days if they could not see it it was not worth it.



Huh? What? Old days? How old? Pre-Columbian? Pre-Christ? Pre-Tutankhamun? Prehistoric?
I'll have you know we as a people have been converting ores, including gold, since the Bronze age.

So, RIP Dogman.
May I die If I lie.. I'm sorry, that's not fair, you weren't lying, you just misspoke through ignorance of the subject.

[Joe King]

So Haney, what you're asking is if it's worth the expense of extraction, right?

IMHO, if there are 4.5oz per ton, seems like it would be.

[E. Haney]

What sock or better what other names have you used, ?

You are not a newbee, I think you have been baned more than once, at the forum I will not name or here.

Who are you ? Post a lot more so your style shows.

So sorry Dogman, I have never been a member here or at any other forum you may have also been a member at, in fact I have only been banned from a forum once, a forum far removed from precious metal discussions, that said we have never crossed paths.

[Dogman]

So sorry Dogman, I have never been a member here or at any other forum you may have also been a member at, in fact I have only been banned from a forum once, a forum far removed from precious metal discussions, that said we have never crossed paths. Time will tell and
for now I stand corrected.

Still I wonder!

[E. Haney]

So Haney, what you're asking is if it's worth the expense of extraction, right?

IMHO, if there are 4.5oz per ton, seems like it would be.

You are correct, at 4.5ozt/T it is worth the extraction costs, well relatively, depending on the quantity of viable material available.
Which is why I asked, quite politely I should say, how CC came up with this claim. It is a far stretch to claim viability from a single rock. If there were two tons of this rock available and the costs of equipment ate up a large share of the value of metal extracted, then no, it wouldn't be worth the extraction. Most mining concerns have claims on low grade material for this reason, at the present time, extraction isn't a profitable venture. There are many hidden costs in extracting the values, no matter how 'starry eyed' the prospect makes you or seems like a good idea, you need to always do your homework.
A proper assessment is done through collecting a varied sample (usually many, many pounds), crushing and then pulverizing the sample, splitting this over and over to get a homogeneous and representative mixture, of this, a 29.166g sample is then assayed to give ozt/T.
Using a single rock (I don't know which rock Chad submitted, perhaps the one with visible gold) is, as I said, akin to claiming Pismo beach viable because a gold coin was found in the sand.

[Joe King]

Well, the way I read CC's post was that if that rock is represenative of the all the rocks, then it is a good site to claim.

I'm assuming there are lots of these rocks. ie many tons.

[horseshoe3]

Dogman = Magnes

Never saw that coming.

[horseshoe3]

Huh? What? Old days? How old? Pre-Columbian? Pre-Christ? Pre-Tutankhamun? Prehistoric?
I'll have you know we as a people have been converting ores, including gold, since the Bronze age.


Context, context, context. It's an abandoned gold mine in Ontario. Reasonable deduction leads one to believe he was talking about the 19th or early 20th century. In any case, prior to the mid 20th century, getting gold out of hard rock was much more labor intensive than it is now. There was surely a yield treshold below which it wasn't profitable back then, but might be now.

[Dogman]

Dogman = Magnes

Never saw that coming.
Dam man !


Now go wash you eyes out with lye soap..

I do respect him,,

But I hope to die , before seeing things his dam way....


Don Quixote carry on!!

[beefsteak]

What sock or better what other names have you used, ?

You are not a newbee, I think you have been baned more than once, at the forum I will not name or here.

Who are you ? Post a lot more so your style shows.


Dogman, Magnes or whoever you are...
you are spot on with this Eustace dud...errops, dude. It is my opinion he is now posting content written by another party who DOES know enough about mining to be participating in this forum.

His "voice" has changed and changed considerably. Have you noticed this, also?

Next thing his source will be "elaborating on" I'm willing to wager is how to conduct particle diminution studies, leaching residence times, and aero-mag surveys, just to name a few.

jis sayin'.....


beefsteak

[beefsteak]

So Haney, what you're asking is if it's worth the expense of extraction, right?

IMHO, if there are 4.5oz per ton, seems like it would be.

Well, Joe, that's NOT QUITE what EH's saying.

He's trying to show he knows more than all the others on this forum, and that we must take his word for everything since he's "biggie sized" at least in his own mind.

The part he's not talking about is simply this: there is commercial mining, and commercial mining extractive costs. This is opposite of small scale mining and attendant small scale mining extractive costs. The later is often more profitable margin wise, than the former. However, he's not happy unless the "find is larger" so that he can increase his cut.

Since he talks big, EH's assuming commercial sized ops, when Chad is a newbie with a very good find on his hands. Chad has more cost constraining options, frankly.

Even a small scale miner with a lab-sized op can make a good profit on a small operation.

Arrogant blowhards only think in multi-million oz deposits and then try to impress everyone else with how much they know. It's a dead giveaway to a sock on this forum.

I just never thought I'd see or hear tell of a stinking wannabe mining expert sock named "Eustace."

[Joe King]

well, Joe, that's NOT QUITE what he's saying.

He's trying to show he knows more than all the others on this forum, and that we must take his word for everything.

He who? CC? I thought he did alright.

[horseshoe3]

The part he's not talking about is simply this: there is commercial mining, and commercial mining extractive costs. This is opposite of small scale mining and attendant small scale mining extractive costs. The later is often more profitable margin wise, than the former. However, he's not happen unless the "find is larger" so that he can increase his cut.

Since he talks big, EH's assuming commercial sized ops, when Chad is a newbie with a very good find on his hands. Chad has more cost constraining options, frankly.

Even a small scale miner with a lab-sized op can make a good profit on a small operation.


Does the mining equipment (of any size) need to be set up on site? Is there ever a case where it makes more sense to haul the ore to somebody else for extraction? Will the big guys even do that for you if you have a few truckloads?

[Dogman]

Dogman, Magnes or whoever you are...
you are spot on with this Eustace dud...errops, dude. It is my opinion he is now posting content written by another party who DOES know enough about mining to be participating in this forum.

His "voice" has changed and changed considerably. Have you noticed this, also?

Next thing his source will be "elaborating on" I'm willing to wager is how to conduct particle diminution studies, leaching residence times, and aero-mag surveys, just to name a few.

jis sayin'.....


beefsteakMay your children be born naked. and with out/or with hair...

to confusre me with that ass lick...

I am offended...
Don Quixote
I am not.

[chad]

it's been my understanding that cc will post all of the pertinent issues when he has time. as i understand it, he's busy with cattle right now.

[beefsteak]

Good questions, Horseshoe, let me take a shot at them, in order, okay?

No, the mining equipment does not need to be set up on site. There are many instances of hauling away the ore to another millsite for custom milling and extractive work.

As far as a few truckloads? Done all the time. Yeah, permits are required for biggie sized, but that's not the case for claimsite owner.

Some operations like Chad has now stumbled onto can be as simple as a chainsaw operated impact mill doing the reducing on the tailgate of his pickup truck on site, on weekend trips. Then using a new mining tool called the gold cube (see YouTubes on this topic) with a few gallons of recirculating water using a 12v bilge pump and a mortar tub from the local lumber yard will pull alot of the free milling gold, making this all very worthwhile for Chad.

The impact mill? $300 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoTdoNEXq68
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoTdoNEXq68
The chainsaw, new, $150 (Wallyworld, $90 bucks Poulan?)
The gold cube (3 tray unit, no legs) $300
Bilge pump? $25
Water...(inconsequential)
Gold panning kit for high grade cons pulled with Gold Cube? maybe $25.00

A ton of valuable rock? About 50 buckets give or take a couple.

Time to process perhaps 24-36 hours.

Yield 4.5 oz in the hypothetical example above? that would be gross of $6,120 discounted 20% for raw, unrefined karat purity ($1700/oz x 4.5to x 80%)

Take out your gas, food, and depreciation of equipment...oh, say another 3%, and you've got a nice little operation...a private bank as it were.

Or to put it another way, with approximately $3.54 value PER GRAIN (480 per t/o) to apply to costs,
a few milligrams of AU, pays for the $800 startup costs and your equipment is totally amortized, and you're off and running.

For a piece of the action, if Chad were to find that $800 a barrier to beginning small scale mining on his new find, a "venturesome capitalist" the likes of those found hanging out here on GSus, would have him up and running in short order for a piece of THAT action, yes?

[beefsteak]

Didn't mean to offend, Dogman. Just posting, ever mindful of the speculation posted higher on this thread.

[Dogman]

Didn't mean to offend, Dogman. Just posting, ever mindful of the speculation posted higher on this thread.We are cool..

[horseshoe3]

I want to make clear that mine was an attempt at humor. Post #51 reminded me of him. Of course in post #55 you said you might be wrong so I knew it wasn't Magnes.

[horseshoe3]

Thanks Beefsteak. I didn't realize it was that cheap and easy to get started. I expected for gold that small and enclosed in rock that you would need to do a chemical extraction process. Would chemical extraction get more gold out, or does mechanical work just as well?

I noticed that the mill made very fine powder of the rock. It there were any larger gold pieces (perhaps 20 mesh) would they stay in one piece due to their malleability?

[E. Haney]

Well, the way I read CC's post was that if that rock is represenative of the all the rocks, then it is a good site to claim.

Correct, if that rock is representative of all the rock at the site.
Though in all likelihood Chad picked up the best he came across, cherry-picking as it were, not just one of these, one of those.

[E. Haney]

Context, context, context.

How was my reply out of context? Dogman said
In the old days if they could not see it it was not worth it. I asked how far back were these 'old days', and politely replied that man has extracted metals from ores since ~3500BCE.
5500 years is pretty damn far back to say if it wasn't visible it wasn't considered viable.


In any case, prior to the mid 20th century, getting gold out of hard rock was much more labor intensive than it is now.
Are you saying prior to say 1950 mechanized mining was non-existent? That gold mining was predominantly grizzled men shaking a rocker box?

[horseshoe3]

I'm saying that prior to WWII the heavy machinery wasn't that heavy. Sure, it was better than a pick and shovel, but you still had to put in a lot of operator hours and more muscle work than you do now.

And enough of the "I replied politely" nonesense. Don't launch a vicious attack on someone like you did to CC and then claim it was polite. Your reply to Dogman was not nearly as bad, but it was by no means "polite."

[E. Haney]

...
you are spot on with this Eustace dud...errops, dude.
You do realize name calling, however mild, is a sure sign of you ignorance.


...
It is my opinion he is now posting content written by another party who DOES know enough about mining to be participating in this forum.

Yes, God forbid anyone has more knowledge of a subject than you. Though you are wrong, it's all me, because I do know more than enough about gold ore and assays to participate in this forum.


...
His "voice" has changed and changed considerably. Have you noticed this, also?
How so, because I am trying to keep CC out of my comments? Though it is his 'work' that sucked me into this thread.
As they say on television "But wait...there's more"

[E. Haney]

He's trying to show he knows more than all the others on this forum.....
Not at all, I am simply probing into this claim of 'Damn well worth doing", and along the way if someone can learn a few things, save a some money or labor, then all the better.





The part he's not talking about is simply this: there is commercial mining, and commercial mining extractive costs. This is opposite of small scale mining and attendant small scale mining extractive costs. The later is often more profitable margin wise, than the former. However, he's not happen unless the "find is larger" so that he can increase his cut.
Why yes I am speaking of commercial mining, it is my area of expertise. Though the assay of ore would be the same whether the venture were multi-billion dollar or Pete Prospector in his garage.
So, what you are saying is my employer and all commercial mining concerns should adopt the ways of small scale operation to increase their profit margins. I will surely bring that up to those whom this information would be pertinent. Thank you, thank you from the very bottom of our greedy black hearts.
As for my 'cut', I am salaried it makes no difference to me.



Since he talks big, EH's assuming commercial sized ops, when Chad is a newbie with a very good find on his hands. Chad has more cost constraining options, frankly.

Even a small scale miner with a lab-sized op can make a good profit on a small operation.

Oh my! Have I struck a tender spot of the 'Steak'?
Yes, Chad is new to this, and may have a valuable find. (One man's opinion from testing a single rock.)
And the very fact Chad is new to this is why I am waist deep into this thread, you see, CC while he may be a really nice person for processing Chad's rock and returning the gold, is in business to sell extractive and mining equipment, so let's just say he has a vested interest in reporting gold finds. I, on the other hand, have no connection to Chad, equipment/chemical sales, or how much gold is in any individuals sample. My involvement is strictly from a non-profit view point.
A small scale operation would better profit from e-scrap or placer deposits, than hard rock
Even a small scale miner with a lab-sized op can make a good profit on a small operation.

[E. Haney]

Some operations like Chad has now stumbled onto can be as simple as a chainsaw operated impact mill doing the reducing on the tailgate of his pickup truck on site, on weekend trips. Then using a new mining tool called the gold cube (see YouTubes on this topic) with a few gallons of recirculating water using a 12v bilge pump and a mortar tub from the local lumber yard will pull alot of the free milling gold, making this all very worthwhile for Chad.


So now we're going from hardrock extractive techniques to panning for gold? And you're expecting the same yields as CC has reported? You really need to stay out of the gold mining field.





Yield 4.5 oz in the hypothetical example above? that would be gross of $6,120 discounted 20% for raw, unrefined karat purity ($1700/oz x 4.5to x 80%)
Well that's a game changer, I was under the impression CC's report/Au returned was at least two nines, and thanks for assuming the alloy is 80%, you really are brilliant, doing that from a few pictures and some posts on the web, you have missed your calling.

[E. Haney]

I'm saying that prior to WWII the heavy machinery wasn't that heavy. Sure, it was better than a pick and shovel, but you still had to put in a lot of operator hours and more muscle work than you do now.


They were/are called steam shovels, invented in the mid-1800's, while certainly not as massive as today's excavators, the arrangement and operation remains the same, hydraulics just can't beat a cable system and modern equipment is diesel-electric rather than steam. So, no picks and shovels... drills, dynamite, rail cars, etc.

[ximmy]

That's four posts in a row on this thread E. Haney... How many do you think it takes for it to be considered spamming?

[chad]

Correct, if that rock is representative of all the rock at the site.
Though in all likelihood Chad picked up the best he came across, cherry-picking as it were, not just one of these, one of those.

actually, part of the reason i was so excited to do this is that i didn't cherry pick any of them. all of them are like that (that i saw anyway). in fact, i actually sent cc one of the more shitty ones because i was afraid it might get lost in the mail or opened en route to him. what's actually inside the mine, i don't know, the stuff i picked up was from big tailing/slag piles right at the mouth of it & a pile of them down bu the lake. i didn't actually go in and crawl around.

[Dogman]

Spam and be ???????


you are not nvited to dinner..

[beefsteak]

Thanks Beefsteak. I didn't realize it was that cheap and easy to get started. I expected for gold that small and enclosed in rock that you would need to do a chemical extraction process. Would chemical extraction get more gold out, or does mechanical work just as well?

I noticed that the mill made very fine powder of the rock. It there were any larger gold pieces (perhaps 20 mesh) would they stay in one piece due to their malleability?

Again, good questions, Horseshoe.

Chemical extraction is always an option. That can be performed commercial scale or small miner scale. Many big mouth hotshots don't even have a clue how to economically extract no-see'um gold on a small miner scale. It can be and is often "done" however, and therein lies the hope of Chad, should he wish to tackle it himself. Only testing will determine if Chad should pursue and acquire chemical extraction skillsets.

However, free milling via mechanical methodology is an even lower cost method which is where most small miners start when they stumble across an abandoned mine, or a visible gold grab samples spot.

REPEATED Testing will be required to determine the economic viability of performing free-milling liberation of values and what the cut-off mesh size would be to determine the next steps. I know of operations where a minus 350 is the profitable liberation particle diminution cut-off point, for 92% of the mechanically entrapped, gold which may be in Chad's sample. We just don't know enough yet to do more than speculate on his small scale options going forward.

CC did a standard assay protocol. CC will have suggestions and his suggested approach. I'm simply trying to present the "more labor intensive, yes" but economically viable mechanical option before concluding at this stage that chemical extraction is the next place to go.

Many a small scale miner bootstraps an eventual chemical extractive operation by going after the low-hanging fruit first, aka, the mechanical liberation option.

One of the joys of using the sampling chainsaw/milling unit is that the -20 gold you ask about would be 'balled up" and quite easy to harvest vis a vis the Gold Cube for example.

If there is a challenge to a small scale miner it is always the impulse to skip the testing steps throughout developing their mining circuit. That is due to lack of training, lack of being shown the ropes by a more experienced small miner, and just plain ole hurry up and git'er done GOLD FEVER.

To be sure, Chad is going to need patience and coaching and lots of testing, gravity based testing and simple assay work to go after the primary metal, in this case, gold.

Hope this helps your thought processes, horseshoe3.


beefsteak

[Joe King]

i didn't actually go in and crawl around. .When are you going to do that? Sounds fun.

[chad]

not until next july (2012). :(

[k-os]

not until next july (2012). :(

Awesome thread, Chad! I don't know how I missed it. Please keep us updated, this is exiting stuff!

[Olmstein]

This is a great thread. You know, some people like to go out in the woods and do some small scale prospecting just for recreation. Not every outdoorsman likes to fish.

I love pompous, arrogant, know it alls.


And on a completely unrelated subject, welcome to GSUS Mr.Haney!