Bad News for Liberty Dollar Collectors

[1970 silver art]

I was on a coin collecting forum a few minutes ago when I came across a thread there with an article dealing with Liberty Dollars. This is not good news at all for anybody who has any Liberty Dollars. Since these Liberty Dollars are made from gold and silver, then the U.S. gov't is seizing gold and silver. At least that is the way that I see it. Here is the article from Coin World.com:

http://www.coinworld.com/articles/liberty-dollars-may-be-subject-to-seizure/




Liberty Dollars may be subject to seizure

Federal officials call medallic pieces ‘contraband’
By Paul Gilkes Coin World Staff | Aug. 29, 2011 7:46 a.m.
Article first published in 2011-09-12, U.S. Collectibles section of Coin World

Liberty Dollars held by collectors may be subject to seizure as contraband by federal law enforcement, officials with the U.S. Attorney’s Office and Secret Service said Aug. 24.

Statements by officials for those two federal law enforcement agencies seem to reverse the position taken in comments released from the United States Attorney’s Office in Charlotte, N.C., and published in Coin World in April, that mere possession of Liberty Dollars did not constitute a violation of any federal statute.

That position has apparently changed, although officials of the U.S. Secret Service — which would be the federal agency likely charged with executing any possible seizures — would not provide any definitive comments concerning under what circumstances Liberty Dollars would be seized.



Read the rest of the story at the following web link:

http://www.coinworld.com/articles/liberty-dollars-may-be-subject-to-seizure/

[JJ.G0ldD0t]

That just makes me want one...

[solid]

Quote from the article..

"The Liberty Dollar represented “a pyramid scheme imbedded with fraud” that had nothing to do with barter or trade, according to Rose."

Well, Rose is obviously a fucking idiot. Physical silver and gold can not, ever, be a pyramid scheme. The pyramid scheme is all their paper printing hammerheads at work.

As far as Liberty dollars, what liberty dollars? I don't see any...anywhere. They must have been all lost in accidents. :)

[1970 silver art]

Quote from the article..

"The Liberty Dollar represented “a pyramid scheme imbedded with fraud” that had nothing to do with barter or trade, according to Rose."

Well, Rose is obviously a fucking idiot. Physical silver and gold can not, ever, be a pyramid scheme. The pyramid scheme is all their paper printing hammerheads at work.

As far as Liberty dollars, what liberty dollars? I don't see any...anywhere. They must have been all lost in accidents. :)

Gold and silver are very evil and you should stay far away from them. Fiat currency is the way to go. ::)

[Large Sarge]

ok, just to add to the creep out scenario.

My Dad knows the scoop on the metals, and one of his neighbors used to own an antique/auction house in town, prior to that, he was retired with the secret service.

So my Dad passes mr retired secret service just a day or 2 ago, while walking the pooches, and mr retired secret service states "I sold everything, all my gold and silver" (He got a lot in trade at his antique/auctions).

Nothing against this guy, but he probably believe Jim cramer and friends "Gold is in a bubble"

or the other possibility (no proof at all).

is he got word from a secret service buddy "they are getting close to taking it"

the old and true story, from around 1928 or so. Martin Weiss's father (he does "Safe money report"), was playing the market with bernard baruch, and the story was making money in the gold market back then was like shooting fish in a barrel....

that went on for a few years, everyone making lots of easy money.....

the one day Bernard Baruch shows up with a grim look on his face, and he said "you got 2 weeks", and he starts unloading all his gold positions....

2 weeks later gold ownership was illegal

Baruch and friends had moved into treasuries, and the gold miners.

they made a killing again.

true story...

I just thought it was odd my dads neighbor had sold everything so suddenly...

even with this backdrop in place, I thinnk outlawing silver, with its thousands of commercial uses, would be very problematic

[palani]

There never was a seizure of gold in any of the several States. The feds decided to declare the possession of gold "intolerable" in federal zones and territories. Places like Federal Reserve banks, Post Offices (where the posters show up ... also where you get noticed to sign up for the draft), the "District", the federal "states": Guam, Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico, Iraq, American Samoa. If you were a federal citizen then you were required to obey federal law no matter where you were located. If you had the other class of citizenship you ignored federal law that was not intended for you.

If you don't know WHO you are or WHERE you are then you MIGHT be in the Land of OZ, a fairytale land where EQUITY is considered to be LAW.

[madfranks]

They'll never have a coordinated effort to seize Liberty Dollars. It would take too many man hours and the expenses would be massive, and the payout would be very cheap. If anything, they'll bust a person here or there when the timing is right just to make their point. As for me, if I had any Liberty Dollars, I'd keep them safe out of view.

[TomD]

If I remember correctly, the reason the Feds have a hard on for Liberty Dollars as opposed to any other of the 1000's of generic rounds out there is only because of the word "dollar" on them. If you were worried about it, seems there are any number of ways to remove that word from the silver.

I'm not too worried about the Feds trying to seize PM for a couple of reasons, chiefly because it falls so short on the cost/benefit ratio. It would be an admission of desperation and VERY alarming to the sheep and, in the end, wouldn't yield enough money to keep this bunch flush for more than a month or so.

[mamboni]

Another silly government edict that will simply drive up the price of Liberty dollars into rare collectables. As if the coin cannot be melted down for it's metal content? Many will do just that. The few that remain behind will emerge in the future as valuable collectibles akin to St. Gaudens gold eagles, which too were illegal to hold by Americans for 4 decades.

[beefsteak]

mamboni,
you are correct. If one wants to keep them--whether silver or gold Libs-- then change their form, mutilate them, cornflake them, etc. After all, it was for the pm CONTENT they were purchased in the first place. Acceptability is always a choice, since all precious metals are a negotiated transaction, as are all commodities.

Content is content.

Visible form/imagery/collectability is a Madison Avenue construct.


beefsteak

[chad]

good thing i don't have any of those things.

[1970 silver art]

You would think that the US gov't has bigger fish to fry (such as pay it's bills) than to worry about a bunch of gold and silver rounds but nooooooooooo. The US Gov't is scared that those evil Liberty Dollars will defeat the mighty fiat US $. I do not know what the US gov't is worried about because everybody knows that fiat paper is king...............riiiiiiiiight?

Repeat after me.......

THE........US $.........IS.........REAL........MONEY

::) ::) ::)

[ximmy]

has anyone seen them for sale, I'd like to get my hands on one... for collectible reasons of course... ::)

[1970 silver art]

has anyone seen them for sale, I'd like to get my hands on one... for collectible reasons of course... ::)

Apparently, some of the ebay sellers are not affaid of the U.S. gov't because I have seen some Liberty Dollars selling on ebay. I am sure that will change very soon when ebay reads that Coin World article and end up stepping in and pulling every Liberty Dollar auction from its website.

[madfranks]

Yep, ebay's still got them. Search for "norfed" and they'll turn up.

[ximmy]

Yep, ebay's still got them. Search for "norfed" and they'll turn up.

That's a pretty good markup on them...

[madfranks]

That's a pretty good markup on them...

Depending on how this recent news is interpreted, the markup is soon to be much higher.

[ximmy]

Depending on how this recent news is interpreted, the markup is soon to be much higher.

The other thing is, purchasing one online kind of targets yourself... in many ways

[Joe King]

Depending on how this recent news is interpreted, the markup is soon to be much higher.

By my interpretation, posession is now illegal.

From the link in the OP....
Following a six-day trial, on March 18, a federal jury in Statesville, N.C., convicted von NotHaus....of conspiracy against the United States; making coins resembling and similar to U.S. coins; of issuing, passing, selling and possessing Liberty Dollar coins; and of issuing and passing Liberty Dollar coins intended for use as current money.

If it was determined to be "illegal" for him to have simply posessed them, it should be for you too.

As far as confiscation, all they have to do is to declare them to be illegal to hold, buy, or sell.
ie getting caught with one would become akin to getting caught with a fake $20 bill in your posession. At that point, they'd dry up quick.

[solid]

As far as confiscation, all they have to do is to declare them to be illegal to hold, buy, or sell.
ie getting caught with one would become akin to getting caught with a fake $20 bill in your posession. At that point, they'd dry up quick.

Illegal to bury and dig up 5 years later after they've mostly been melted down?

If you bury it in the ground, it's not in your posession anymore, it's in Mother Earth's posession. Just dig them up after the dollar as a currency goes belly-up, once we're on to a new currency, have a few liberty dollars around won't be an issue.

You could also take your dremel, and grind off part of the D in Dollar, and make it a Liberty Collar. Liberty Collar's should be legal. It doesn't say Dollar on it anymore.

[Joe King]

If you grind on it, it won't weigh right.
...but you're right in that you'd have to either hide them or destroy them in some way.

[sirgonzo420]

What about the paper Liberty Dollars?

http://cdn1.iofferphoto.com/img/item/151/439/447/2006-silver-certificate-american-liberty-dollar-norfed-02f9e.jpg

[Joe King]

I'd imagine it applies to them, too.