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View Full Version : U.S.'s "true indebtedness" amounts to $211 trillion.



mick silver
3rd September 2011, 06:27 AM
http://www.businessinsider.com/economist-says-us-is-actually-211-million-in-debt-2011-8 ...

Reagan economic (http://www.businessinsider.com/economist-says-us-is-actually-211-million-in-debt-2011-8#) adviser Laurence Kotlikoff said the U.S.'s "true indebtedness" amounts to $211 trillion.
That's more than 15 times the $14 trillion official figure.
"We're focused just on the official debt, so we're trying to balance the wrong books (http://www.businessinsider.com/economist-says-us-is-actually-211-million-in-debt-2011-8#)," Kotlikoff said, naming Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid for the skyrocketing unofficial figure.
If you add up all the promises that have been made for spending obligations, including defense expenditures, and you subtract all the taxes that we expect to collect, the difference is $211 trillion. That's the fiscal gap...
Why are these guys thinking about balancing the budget (http://www.businessinsider.com/economist-says-us-is-actually-211-million-in-debt-2011-8#)?...They should try and think about our long-term fiscal problems.
His comments were reminiscent of a Bloomberg editorial (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-11/u-s-is-bankrupt-and-we-don-t-even-know-commentary-by-laurence-kotlikoff.html) he wrote last year, where he called entitlements "a massive Ponzi scheme."
From the interview:
We've got 78 million baby boomers who are poised to collect, in about 15 to 20 years, about $40,000 per person. Multiply 78 million by $40,000 — you're talking about more than $3 trillion a year just to give to a portion of the population...That's an enormous bill that's overhanging our heads, and Congress isn't focused on it.


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/economist-says-us-is-actually-211-million-in-debt-2011-8#ixzz1WtLrhflH

Twisted Titan
3rd September 2011, 07:22 AM
It is way higher then 211 Trillion


When you. start to count black buget items and military pet projects covert aid to countries we keep as our lapdog

I would put that number well over 900 trillion and probally at the Quintillion mark

palani
3rd September 2011, 07:43 AM
Amazing! Nobody is willing to define what $1 actually is yet they are expected to be impressed by amounts of them in the trillions.

Let us therefore define 1 trillion dollars to be the form and substance of a 1/4 x 1 inch bolt, grade 3, steel. I'll run down to the hardware store today to pick up 211 of them (they might not have this many in stock though so be prepared for a delay ... as compensation for this delay I am willing to donate 10 more of them). Give me an address to ship them to.

p.s. I am willing to supply the nuts as well at .75 trilion dollars each for future credit

Neuro
3rd September 2011, 07:50 AM
Amazing! Nobody is willing to define what $1 actually is yet they are expected to be impressed by amounts of them in the trillions.

Let us therefore define 1 trillion dollars to be the form and substance of a 1/4 x 1 inch bolt, grade 3, steel. I'll run down to the hardware store today to pick up 211 of them (they might not have this many in stock though so be prepared for a delay ... as compensation for this delay I am willing to donate 10 more of them). Give me an address to ship them to.

p.s. I am willing to supply the nuts as well at .75 trilion dollars each for future credit
Nice! Will an IOU note do?

palani
3rd September 2011, 07:52 AM
Nice! Will an IOU note do?

Of course (if it is not returned promptly).

For information: Contracts are dynamic. They are never fixed. Novation is the substitution of one debt for another. An offer is accepted if not responded to within 72 hours. This forum is public notice.

Ash_Williams
3rd September 2011, 07:52 AM
This is a silly way of looking at it. I suppose if my grandfather lives forever then he'll be a trillion in debt too.
If the budget is balanced each year then the 211 trillion will never happen.

Libertytree
3rd September 2011, 08:05 AM
This is all a moot point, because 211T is a debt that is impossible to pay.

Joe King
3rd September 2011, 08:18 AM
The actual problem is that relative to the future time period covered, the underlying economy that would have to be taxed in order to make all those promises good will likely not be up to the challenge.
ie past promises to pay will exceed future ability to pay.

Sparky
3rd September 2011, 10:24 AM
I'm not a fan of expressing these "unfunded obligations" as debt. "Future promises" aren't owed, particularly when they come in the form of government promises, which can be changed with legislation at time. They could pass a law to eliminate the social security system tomorrow, and it would remove $200T of the $211T.

These fantastic numbers serve to cloud the issue, since people can hardly wrap their heads around the concept of a "billion". Granted, they're still useful to express the magnitude of the problematic path we are on, but it's not really "debt" yet.

Serpo
3rd September 2011, 04:47 PM
Just goes to show how responsible governments have been as they are in the end to blame.............basically hopeless.

FreeEnergy
5th September 2011, 08:11 AM
USA HAS NO DEBT.

Remember that.

It's all BS.

hoarder
5th September 2011, 08:45 AM
Laurence Kotlikoff said .......entitlements "a massive Ponzi scheme."Why doesn't Jew Kotlikoff tell us what the real ponzi scheme is? "entitlements" did not get us in this situation, the Federal Reserve did.

palani
5th September 2011, 08:53 AM
"entitlements" did not get us in this situation, the Federal Reserve did.

Man takes responsibility for his actions. The Federal Reserve is a fiction.

Santa
5th September 2011, 10:09 AM
Don't worry, I've got this covered. I'm repaying the entire 211 trillion with intestinal flora that I grew in my very own ass farm.

If they don't like the payment plan, tough shit.