Lead... the OTHER precious metal *!! Bitch Warning !!*

[Gaillo]

Alright... you've all been warned in the title - major bitching to follow! :(

I use Tin/Lead solder in my electronics work. About 10 years ago, I laid in a good supply (about 10 or 15 one-pound rolls) at an average cost of about $7 per pound. Well... you guessed it... I burned through my last roll on Friday, I have just a few feet left... so I went online to price out another few pounds.

HOLY ^#%€£##%!!!!!

The average going rate right now is about $45-60 per pound!

I did a bit of digging, and found out that due to BS "environmental" regulations, solder containing Lead is now pretty much illegal/phased out in China and Europe, and production is being phasing out in the U.S. accordingly. As a consequence, the price is skyrocketing, and the "lead-free" solders that have replaced it are all total crap from the reports I'm reading, and most of those contain silver and/or rare earth elements so they are even more expensive than the Lead-containing solder they're replacing! Hoarding/stockpiling of Lead-based solder is on the rise as a consequence.

FUCK!!! How the hell's a guy supposed to make a living in this completely retarded clusterfuck of an environazi "civilization "? ???

I'll be buying about $200 worth of solder on Tues... the cheapest brand/type I can find... probably the last I'll be able to find/afford...

To hell with 'em! I am pissed pissed Pissed PISSED PISSED!!!!! :(

[Eyebone]

How about mixing your own?

[Gaillo]

How about mixing your own?

Not possible... I need fine-gauge flux-core solder, NOT a do-it-yourself proposition.

[Dick_Stabber]

Lead has Always been the OTHER precious metal.

[mick silver]

you want some wine to go with the bitching ... you kidding right about the price , dam that high

[Cebu_4_2]

I have been using the solder that is lead free but been pre-treating with a lead flux solder compound. Not sure about any benefits on electrical circuts, my son says it's fukt but with it I can make prestine solder connections so far.

[solid]

The average going rate right now is about $45-60 per pound!

But...the price of lead per pound is only $1.11. Where's the markup coming from? That's like payin $1900 for one ounce of silver!

[Gaillo]

...you kidding right about the price , dam that high

Mick, I wish I was kidding... check this shit out:

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=KE1109-ND
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=KE1303-ND
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=KE1400-ND

Here's a "cheap" one:

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=82-119-ND

[gunDriller]

Not possible... I need fine-gauge flux-core solder, NOT a do-it-yourself proposition.

http://www.alltronics.com/cgi-bin/item/28Z157/search/0.55lb-Lead-Free-Solder

Alltronics has 1/2 pound, i think it's resin core, for $18. not sure if that's a good deal.


i used to sell pound rolls of solder at the flea market for $5.

makes me wonder if i should collect the solder off old circuit boards. never thought of it as valuable but JEEZ !


the US government & their environmental protection laws. it's not like they give a hoot about the environment - or our health. they're spreading depleted uranium around the Iraqi countryside by the hundreds of tons. they put rat poison (sodium fluoride) in public drinking water.

must be some other motivation. such as control.

when i was younger i used to love the smell of rosin coming off the end of a soldering iron. sort of like "geek incense".

[freespirit]

FUCK!!! How the hell's a guy supposed to make a living in this completely retarded clusterfuck of an environazi "civilization "? ???


...YOU AREN'T...

...but you already knew that!

really drives the point home though, don't it?

[Gaillo]

http://www.alltronics.com/cgi-bin/item/28Z157/search/0.55lb-Lead-Free-Solder

Alltronics has 1/2 pound, i think it's resin core, for $18. not sure if that's a good deal.

That's still around $35 per pound, and it's "lead-free" solder... which based on the reports I've been reading needs a hotter iron, tends to de-laminate the PCB, doesn't "flow" as well, and often results in "cold solder joints". No thanks... I'll find a decent price on some Leaded stuff somewhere by Tues.

BTW, I also enjoy the Rosin smell... ;)

[Dogman]

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/21-1845&t=1

Larger gauge tho.

[solid]

Gaillo, I smell an opportunity.

If you could get lead cheap, by the 1000's of pounds...how can you turn that lead into $45 a pound solder?

Basically, how do you make the solder? If we could figure out how to turn cheap lead into solder, we could make a killing.

[Gaillo]

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/21-1845&t=1

Larger gauge tho.

Thanks... I'll probably pick up a pound or two of that.
I typically use 0.015-0.020" diameter though, so you're right - the stuff you found is a bit "thick" by comparison! ;D

[mick silver]

Gaillo, I smell an opportunity.

If you could get lead cheap, by the 1000's of pounds...how can you turn that lead into $45 a pound solder?

Basically, how do you make the solder? If we could figure out how to turn cheap lead into solder, we could make a killing.
if you have the money to set up all the tooling you would need it would be ok

[Dogman]

Thanks... I'll probably pick up a pound or two of that.
I typically use 0.015-0.020" diameter though, so you're right - the stuff you found is a bit "thick" by comparison! ;DSmt?

Surface mount?

[palani]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SN60-PB40-1-LB-SPOOL-WRAP-2-DIA-023-SOLDER-483531057514-/320695627480?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aaaf2eed8

ten available at $16 a roll ... 1 lb rolls .023. Don't know if it is rosin core though but would suspect it is.

The only other place I would suspect you could beat the price is any hamfest.

[Quixote2]

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/MULTICORE-SN60WRAP3-0151-2-/21-1106

http://www.futureelectronics.com/en/Search.aspx?dsNav=N:983-4294913334,Ny:True,Ro:0,Aro:10,Nea:True

[Gaillo]

Smt?

Surface mount?

Yep. Usually nothing finer than SOIC, but I occasionally do a bitch of a QFP or two... getting too old and shaky for that shit! ;D

[Gaillo]

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/MULTICORE-SN60WRAP3-0151-2-/21-1106

http://www.futureelectronics.com/en/Search.aspx?dsNav=N:983-4294913334,Ny:True,Ro:0,Aro:10,Nea:True

Still $38-$55 per pound! :(

[Dogman]

Yep. Usually nothing finer than SOIC, but I occasionally do a bitch of a QFP or two... getting too old and shaky for that shit! ;D Steady hands and working under mag, did it for years. Bracing hands helps.


Edit: To add , solder wick is your friend! ;D

[Gaillo]

Edit: To add , solder wick is your friend! ;D

Couldn't function without the stuff... which reminds me, I'm running low on that too... I'm almost afraid to check what THAT's priced at these days - it was never cheap to begin with! :o

[Dogman]

Couldn't function without the stuff... which reminds me, I'm running low on that too... I'm almost afraid to check what THAT's priced at these days - it was never cheap to begin with! :o
Google Caddx. or Caddx caddi controls before the name changes.

You will see what I built for almost 14 years.

[gunDriller]

Gaillo, I smell an opportunity.

If you could get lead cheap, by the 1000's of pounds...how can you turn that lead into $45 a pound solder?

Basically, how do you make the solder? If we could figure out how to turn cheap lead into solder, we could make a killing.

i like the way you guys think. nothing like a crowd that is comfortable with the industrial arts !

in Cebu's thread, someone was talking about recycling the lead from sailboat fins/ hulls. 3000 pounds of lead in an old sailboat, something like that.

one other location for lead mining - the informal shooting ranges up in King's County, Washington. the hillsides are FILLED with lead. that's where everybody goes to shoot. i doubt the bullets penetrate more than 6 inches into the dirt.

personally, i like the way tin-lead solder flows. if you have a clean soldering iron with enough watts and a little flux - it's like MAGIC ! all of a sudden the solder melts & mission accomplished. though i can't say i am always so lucky.


one other way to get it - garage sales & estate sales. heck, in this economy, if you put an ad in Craigslist offering to pay $5 a pound for rosin core 63-37 (eutectic) solder - you might get some people cleaning out their tool chest for you.


as for the tin -
http://www.espimetals.com/metals/cattinPowder.htm

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/ProductDetail.do?D7=0&N5=SEARCH_CONCAT_PNO|BRAND_KEY&N4=265640|ALDRICH&N25=0&QS=ON&F=SPEC

WOW - look at those prices for powdered tin. $26 for 100 grams - 3 ounces - $8 an ounce.


http://metalprices.com/

Tin is about the same as nickel price wise - $11 a pound ... nickel's about $10 right now.


side-stepping how to get the rosin/resin/flux into the solder, if one or a few of us mixed up a good batch of 63-37, extruded it into a skinny metal rod, and put pounds of it on plastic or wood spools, and advertised it - which government agency would knock on our door first ?

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

I feel for you, I really do. This is the world we live in now.

What you really need is a time machine

http://www.zetacity.com/insidethetardis/images/tardis-large.jpg

FRN ain't what it used to be.

[Gaillo]

OK... just finished my search.... looked at close to 400 websites before I found "da bomb" deal.
Should be able to walk away with high quality name-brand solder on Tues. for around $15 per pound, in the diameter I typically use, and the type of flux core I like. I'll buy as much as I can afford (probably about 12 lb., when I figure in shipping), and hope its enough to carry me through to doomsday...

The writing is on the wall.

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

Weird question, but does this thread give anyone else deja vu?

[Gaillo]

Weird question, but does this thread give anyone else deja vu?

Yep. In an "ammunition" kind of way! ;D

[mick silver]

one more thing to look for at yard sales .

[Neuro]

Btw Gaillo, what do you use the solder for?

[Gaillo]

Btw Gaillo, what do you use the solder for?

Most of you know this already... I do small-scale industrial electro-mechanical design and production for a variety of clients.

[Neuro]

Most of you know this already... I do small-scale industrial electro-mechanical design and production for a variety of clients.

Cool! I don't know how I could have missed that... However 200 bucks for an essential substance in aprox. 10 years of production isn't that hefty, IMO!

Anyway specifically what products do you design and produce?

[Gaillo]

Cool! I don't know how I could have missed that... However 200 bucks for an essential substance in aprox. 10 years of production isn't that hefty, IMO!

Anyway specifically what products do you design and produce?

I don't talk too much about that... most of it is under non-disclosure agreements with my clients. Most of it is "nitchy" industrial control stuff, typically in 10-200 piece production-life volumes (WAY too small of runs for the Chinese to want to get involved with!). I will say that I ALWAYS turn down military and .gov jobs on moral/ethical grounds, I was once offered a fire-control panel design/production job for military helicoptors that I could have retired on several times over... said no thanks.

[vacuum]

OK... just finished my search.... looked at close to 400 websites before I found "da bomb" deal.
Should be able to walk away with high quality name-brand solder on Tues. for around $15 per pound, in the diameter I typically use, and the type of flux core I like. I'll buy as much as I can afford (probably about 12 lb., when I figure in shipping), and hope its enough to carry me through to doomsday...

The writing is on the wall.
So where did you find it? This was the best I found - two 1 lb spools for about $20:

http://cableorganizer.com/mg-chemicals/leaded-solder/

edit: actually I believe its two 1/2 lb spools for that price.

couple more:
$14.99
http://www.theaudioguru.com/products/60%7B47%7D40-LEAD-ROSIN-CORE-SOLDER-1LB-SPOOL.html

$15.88
http://www.waresdirect.com/products/Commercial-Products/Lenox/1-LB-4060-LEADED-ROSINCO-371095?trackURL=froogle

[Gaillo]

So where did you find it? This was the best I found - two 1 lb spools for about $20:

http://cableorganizer.com/mg-chemicals/leaded-solder/

edit: actually I believe its two 1/2 lb spools for that price.

couple more:
$14.99
http://www.theaudioguru.com/products/60%7B47%7D40-LEAD-ROSIN-CORE-SOLDER-1LB-SPOOL.html

$15.88
http://www.waresdirect.com/products/Commercial-Products/Lenox/1-LB-4060-LEADED-ROSINCO-371095?trackURL=froogle

I'll let you know after I buy mine on Tue. - wouldn't want the vultures to swoop in before THIS vulture gets there! ;D

[vacuum]

I'll let you know after I buy mine on Tue. - wouldn't want the vultures to swoop in before THIS vulture gets there! ;D
Hehe, its always easy to recognize another deals junkie. I do the same :D

[MAGNES]

Been collecting tin for about 4 years now cause of some mod dude from gim. ;)

Imagine, we could of got Gaillo hooked on collecting solder back then.

I am afraid to ask Gaillo what he does with all this solder.

Crazy metals, it's all going up, this is a good reminder, even scrap is an investment.

[Serpo]

Hasnt silver gone up just as much in the same time period.....10x......

[Neuro]

Hasnt silver gone up just as much in the same time period.....10x......

For most of us here, it just sunk to the bottom of the sea...

[vacuum]

Thieves Steal Batteries From 32 School Buses

http://www.local10.com/news/29094232/detail.html

[7th trump]

Do you mill or etch your boards Gaillo?

[Neuro]

I don't talk too much about that... most of it is under non-disclosure agreements with my clients. Most of it is "nitchy" industrial control stuff, typically in 10-200 piece production-life volumes (WAY too small of runs for the Chinese to want to get involved with!). I will say that I ALWAYS turn down military and .gov jobs on moral/ethical grounds, I was once offered a fire-control panel design/production job for military helicoptors that I could have retired on several times over... said no thanks.
What you are doing is great! If I would recommend something to a young person today. It would be to learn to do something that not many people can do, but which has a need that people is prepaired to pay for. Learn to do it better than most who do it, and you can make a good living and you can even turn down offers you don't like. And you don't need to work as a corporate slave!

Go for specialized niches, and be the best you can be!

[7th trump]

What you are doing is great! If I would recommend something to a young person today. It would be to learn to do something that not many people can do, but which has a need that people is prepaired to pay for. Learn to do it better than most who do it, and you can make a good living and you can even turn down offers you don't like. And you don't need to work as a corporate slave!

Go for specialized niches, and be the best you can be!
This is exactly why I have two cnc router mills to mill circuit boards out of my garage when finished.
Not only circuit boards but this also..........www.vectric.com.
Just received my Aspire software the other week and WOW what it can do.........sky's the limit!
Started working on a GSUS logo in 2.5d to be carved in oak.

Already have dozens of requests for custom harley parts and not to mention milling out guitar bodies for a freinds business. He's tired of ordering expensive chineese made guitars that arent worth a crap for the shop he works for now. Plans on opening his own bussiness selling guitars and giving lessons. Already taking business away. People cant afford lesson from the shop so they ask if he does it on the side.
I figure I can mill out guitar bodies for $75 a pop with $50 being profit at 4 a day (after work) and he can under sell the competitor by about $100 with a mostly US made guitar.

[palani]

This is exactly why I have two cnc router mills to mill circuit boards out of my garage when finished.

Another low cost way to go
http://www.fullspectrumengineering.com/pcbinkjet.html

[7th trump]

Another low cost way to go
http://www.fullspectrumengineering.com/pcbinkjet.html
This must be new ink technology. A year ago there was nothing for inkjet printers that wouldnt wash off.

[palani]

This must be new ink technology. A year ago there was nothing for inkjet printers that wouldnt wash off.

They load their own brand of ink in Epson cartridges. Pretty expensive but then so is prototyping.

[7th trump]

They load their own brand of ink in Epson cartridges. Pretty expensive but then so is prototyping.
Thats what breadboards are for..........prototyping!
Might have to check out this ink.

[palani]

Thats what breadboards are for..........prototyping!

wirewrapping gets old fast.

[Gaillo]

So where did you find it?...

http://www.herbeppleent.com/product/780/alpha-metals-reliacor-11-rosin-core-solder-1lb/

Here ya go, Vacuum. I bought enough rolls to get it down to $10 per roll, almost pre-ban pricing! ;)
I think he has about 20-ish rolls left. GREAT solder, great price.

[vacuum]

I'm almost more interested in how you found it than the solder itself.

[Gaillo]

I'm almost more interested in how you found it than the solder itself.

Kind of a dull story... I wanted to, so I did. Kind of my life story! ;D

[Dogman]

Way back some thought it cool to find lead on sites and chew it..Truth!
50 years later we find out that may not have been a good thing to do.