any thoughts on post-SHTF communications?

[freespirit]

i've been thinking alot lately about this...what are we gonna do when they shut down the net? many of us (myself included) are not set up to stay in contact with others from both the forum and within their own networks/family.

HAM radio seems like a pretty decent alternative but aren't you required to be licensed before transmitting?

CB radio also seems like a good alternative, but has limited range.

cell phones are out, land lines are out....

what about military style old school field telephones? they look really rugged, but can you still get specialized batteries for them?


...i know, i know, lots of questions...lol

any thoughts?

[solid]

I think the challenge is that everyone you want to communicate with has to be on the same page. This requires everyone to plan ahead.

I've heard ham radio is the best solution. Personally, I'll be using vhf radio locally, with a range of 10-20 miles perhaps. Satalite internet could be a possible solution, though expensive. I wonder if that would go down during SHTF. Also, sat phones are available too.

[steyr_m]

I tried to suggest a Ham Radio sub-forum here for post-SHTF communications [with the idea of having a possibility of a GSUS 'Net' every Sun.] and it went no-where. No-one seems to notice that that will be very needed during SHTF, along with encryption.

[freespirit]

i think that satellite internet or phones will be no good...probly locked down like they did in egypt.

i dunno...i think that WTSHTF, ALL standard comm (internet, cell, land line, sat phone,) will be either non functioning, or heavily scanned...i also think that going as low tech as possible, while maintaining maximum range, will be one's best bet.

sure, they will always be able to monitor the airwaves, and any communications will be risky, but lower tech units i think will be harder for them to pinpoint...

[k-os]

I am very interested in a communications solution also. At the fair one year, I went to the Ham Radio organization's table and was summarily ignored. I would really like to learn about it, but I felt they were not very welcoming to newcomers. They're probably paranoid freaks like us . . . so I understand. But I doubt that I am going to learn from reading a book. (That's just me.)

[solid]

i think that satellite internet or phones will be no good...probly locked down like they did in egypt.

i dunno...i think that WTSHTF, ALL standard comm (internet, cell, land line, sat phone,) will be either non functioning, or heavily scanned...i also think that going as low tech as possible, while maintaining maximum range, will be one's best bet.

sure, they will always be able to monitor the airwaves, and any communications will be risky, but lower tech units i think will be harder for them to pinpoint...

If it gets that bad, having all your loved ones on VHF may be the way to go. VHF is simple, has no 3rd party (radio to radio), and can't pinpoint your position when you transmit (my understanding at least).

You could use fixed systems at home with antenna's high up to increase range, and handheld units for close range.

If you are still concerned, you could set up code names..ex "Alpha1, this is Bravo2, do you copy?"

You could say "Alpha1, does a frog bump it's ass when it hops?" Meaning, "what's your current position?"

Response.."The cat has jumped out of the bag." Meaning, "I am on the outer perimeter on patrol". Etc..

[beefsteak]

K-os,
Your story reminds me of my first hamfest, as a Suave Senior. LOL

Pretty much a foreign land, those hamfests.

Usually the friendliest, most helpful person at the hamfests I've found is the guy or gal sitting at the table trying to sell you raffle tickets. Because "sponsoring club money" is involved at that table, usually a senior member of the sponsoring club is seated there, and they are ALWAYS on the scout out for new blood. Besides, there is a quid pro quo involved...if they treat you nice, they may sell you raffle tickets. No such carrot at the "organization's table."


freespirit,
Yes, a license is required but it is no big whoopDdo anymore, since the applicant no longer has to pass a 10 key Morse Code test to achieve the lowest run of the licensed ladder. It's basically an application and acceptance routine now. Here's a YouTube on it for you and K-os.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeob7P5hc9U

I won a Harmon Kardon Handheld at my first hamfest, and I wasn't even licensed at the time. They changed the eligibility rules after I won for the next ham fest. ;D

I tried to do what was honorable, so I went through the Morse Code rigamarole, and got licensed. Now I don't need that as the hand-held's are voice over units 1st, and Morse Code 2nd.

Gotta admit, it IS cool having "call letters."


beefsteak

[steyr_m]

i dunno...i think that WTSHTF, ALL standard comm (internet, cell, land line, sat phone,) will be either non functioning, or heavily scanned...i also think that going as low tech as possible, while maintaining maximum range, will be one's best bet.


I agree. 2 M & 70 cm is for local stuff, unless you have a directional antenna and shoot at an amateur-radio satellite. 6 M can give you a range of a couple hundred miles. My first radio was a 70cm/2M/6M hand-held. I took the antenna off and put on a cable attached to a 6M yagi [a high gain directional antenna] and could reach the next province over....

[Glass]

there's been a couple threads on this. I did a quick run down on the bands (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?53629-alternate-communication-devices&p=452788&viewfull=1#post452788) and what you can expect to get from them in terms of distances.

If you need comms for a group then you definately need to plan ahead so everyone has the same frequencies and gear thats capable.

When the thread title happens I don't think licences matter, what matters is what you want to do. Get gear that will do the job.

Hand helds - portable but shorter range. Some chinese models are good and cheap. Some come with scramblers. Work UHF and/or VHF freqs. UHF could be CB, amateur or commercial. VHF amateur or commercial. You can get dual banders which do both freq bands. You can get repeater kits for some so you can plug 2 together and you've got a repeater. Low power for sure but will still improve range. Can also be clandistinely used. Check out amateur radio fox hunting for ideas on hiding radios.

Mobiles - better range. CB, amateur or commercial. UHF and/or VHF and/or HF. Some have a lot of power. You can get them upto 100w on UHF, more on HF sometimes. Again you can link a couple radios to make a repeater or some dual band mobile radios have repeater feature built in. See my other post.

Base radios. You can use a mobile as a base or get a dedicated base unit. Can be amateur or CB. HF and/or VHF/UHF. HF radios will give you range. 100's or 1000's of miles. Some HF won't work very well in close because of the way the radio waves travel. So other bands are better for local comms.

Transmitting Power is also worth thinking about. Power increases transmitting range but not receiving range so you could transmit further than you can hear. You can plug in an amplifier to boost output power. Needs to be matched to input power. Antennas have power output limits.

Antennas. Height helps with listening as well as transmitting range. Can be made from just about anything. You can have an antenna in a small roll or bundle. You can make them out of a simple length of coax and pvc pipe. A straight wire will do. There are a lot of designs and a lot of people do dx expeditions into remote areas so some are very portable.

FM Broadcasting. This is one I keep meaning to mention. Maybe you just want to provide an information service or broadcast your own material when SHTF. You can get low watt FM radio transmitters either as kits or ready made. 1w can transmit about 5kms or so with a few obstacles like buildings etc. They can be tuned to normal FM radio frequencies, so anyone with a working FM radio could tune it. I have one and they work quite well. You can plug in an MP3 player or any audio device and start transmitting. The antenna's the thing and I think it's usually an add on.

I did a quick search around and it seems you can get FM transmitters up to 300w of power so you could really push out a signal.

WarDriving. This one is interesting. This is WiFi. The idea is that WarDriving is the "hobby" of recording the locations of any Wifi networks your computer or smartphone detects while you are driving, cycling or walking. GPS co-ordinates are recorded and can be plotted on your own maps or you can upload them into a google map structure. I guess if you were prepared, in a SHTF scenario you could access the net in this way. It assumes the net will still be there and the wifi's have power. Maybe the you are "in it" and on the move for some reason. Who knows. There is much more going on in this area than is openly discussed.

See how many WiFi access points have been tagged and recorded @ wigle (http://wigle.net/) . Maybe yours is already in there.

[Dogman]

Having been a amateur radio operator for most of my life (ham) that in a T.E.O.T.W.A.W.K.I or minor (world does not end) shit hit the fan situation. All of the pretty toys you all use will be useless depending how bad and what happens on a local or national level.

In natural regional disasters, it has been proven that only one means of communications does work reliably and that is ham radio.

This post could get very long covering all of the possible scenarios , political or natural.

A lot of ham radios can run on battery's, all of the uhf,vhf plus all of the mobile hf rigs. For most base stations because of the power output you will need a.c. to run them.

If truly bad and wide spread there is only one method for short (within 100 miles give or take) and long distance communication. Very short (less than 10 miles line of sight) the radios you can buy at wall mart can work, but needing anymore range that what they can do, you need to look at ham gear or old commercial radios.

UHF and VHF radios depending on the mode operated in and time of day plus what kind of antenna used (omni or directional) and how high the antenna is can give reliable range out to 100 + miles point to point.

Hf radios depending on the time of day, season (weather) and sun cycle plus which band and the type of antenna used (omni or directional) can give reliable world wide communications. The Hf spectrum is divided into bands and depending on conditions stated above will work for ranges from within 100 miles to world wide ranges.

So far as being legal, yes you do need a license to operate these radios and depending on what class license you have, that will dictate what bands and frequency ranges you can use.

Today with a little or a lot of study (depends on the person and what you want) you can get one. I am still pissed that they did away with the code (old school extra class) but can understand (finally) why they did it. And believe me morse kept a bunch of people out of the hobby.

Now all of the test info is out there and published ether one can memorize all of the test info or at least learn the theory's and pass the tests.

About needing to be legal, as long as this government here and else where in the world is in power to keep them knocking on your door you need a license.

But if everything goes to hell in a hand basket and all other means fail, (cells will go first) the game changes and being legal becomes a moot point.

Did you know that we (hams) even have our own satellites up and running? Yep and all by our selfs, just bummed a rocket ride into orbit. ;D

Edit:

K, you must have hit the grumpy ones that day. Most will go out of their way to help.

He/they may have been some of the old timers that are still pissed that the code was made to go away. At one time for a bunch of years (over 10) I was very pissed that they dropped the code. I had to learn 20 words per minute code to get my class license (extra) and now all one needs to do is just take the written test. Was very pissed , now I have toned it down to being just pissed. >:(

[steyr_m]

Did you know that we (hams) even have our own satellites up and running?


On the heels of that discussion, here's a list, for some people to look at know you've seen this before], of Amateur Satellites.

http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/satellites/status.php

[ArgenteumTelum]

K-os,

I'm sorry you had a poor experience with a bad egg at the hamfest. As an extra class amateur radio op, my entire experience has been very positive and folks will go out of their way to be helpful. You CAN learn from a book. The Technician Study Guide from the ARRL is your ticket to a "ticket". Kids pass this test easily. I encourage you to get a copy, cozy up to the fire and in a few weeks you'll be ready to pass the exam. While the hobby is mostly populated by males, there are plenty of female ops, including the current president of the ARRL. Give it a go and join our ranks!!

AT

[k-os]

K-os,

I'm sorry you had a poor experience with a bad egg at the hamfest. As an extra class amateur radio op, my entire experience has been very positive and folks will go out of their way to be helpful. You CAN learn from a book. The Technician Study Guide from the ARRL is your ticket to a "ticket". Kids pass this test easily. I encourage you to get a copy, cozy up to the fire and in a few weeks you'll be ready to pass the exam. While the hobby is mostly populated by males, there are plenty of female ops, including the current president of the ARRL. Give it a go and join our ranks!!

AT

Thanks for the encouragement! I have never been afraid of being one of only a few females. I'm here on GSUS, aren't I? :)

OK, I found the website, with all of the books. Here's the link, in case anyone else is interested: http://www.arrl.org

I found lots of books, but nothing with "Technician" in the title. Do any of these seem right?

The ARRL General Class License Manual 7th Edition
Ham Radio License Manual Revised 2nd Edition
ARRL Handbook (2011 Softcover Edition)
The ARRL Operating Manual
Ham Radio License Manual Revised 2nd Edition

So, in your opinion, a person doesn't need any equipment to pass the test? I feel like it would be comparable to getting a software certification without having touched a computer. Seems odd to me.

[Dogman]

Thanks for the encouragement! I have never been afraid of being one of only a few females. I'm here on GSUS, aren't I? :)

OK, I found the website, with all of the books. Here's the link, in case anyone else is interested: http://www.arrl.org

I found lots of books, but nothing with "Technician" in the title. Do any of these seem right?

The ARRL General Class License Manual 7th Edition
Ham Radio License Manual Revised 2nd Edition
ARRL Handbook (2011 Softcover Edition)
The ARRL Operating Manual
Ham Radio License Manual Revised 2nd Edition

So, in your opinion, a person doesn't need any equipment to pass the test? I feel like it would be comparable to getting a software certification without having touched a computer. Seems odd to me. K , since they did away with the code, it makes no sense to go technician. Go for general class and that will give you uhf, vhf, and high frequency privileges. And the ability to use all of the ham bands!

The material will cover rules and theory tho I have not seen any of the study or test material for years, I used to give the tests as a ve for w5yi and arrl, but that was many a year ago.

If you make the jump, general class is a good one. after that the tests are much harder, or they used too be.

It would help to try and learn the formulas for the math and use a calculator, but some just memorizes the question and answer pools.

[k-os]

K , since they did away with the code, it makes no sense to go technician. Go for general class and that will give you uhf, vhf, and high frequency privileges. And the ability to use all of the ham bands!


Thanks for the info. So, I will purchase this book, unless someone else wants to convince me otherwise: The ARRL General Class License Manual 7th Edition



It would help to try and learn the formulas for the math and use a calculator, but some just memorizes the question and answer pools.

I would do way better learning formulas than memorizing anything. I work with formulas all day long, and can't remember if I had lunch. This brain of mine, it is flawed.

[Dogman]

You do not need the equipment, but having a rig so you can tune the bands and check out what is going on would likely encourage you go study and take the test.

If you get your license hf radios that also have general coverage are the best IMHO, because there is a whole world of broad cast stations out there all up and down the bands. And that can give you a chance to hear sometimes the other side or outlooks about what is reported here in the states.

Most first radios are short range vhf hand held, and or mobile radios. But with a general ticket a hf radio is a must , there are combo rigs out there that will do both vhf and hf that are very good.

You need to find your local club (s) and join, better yet find your local club and they will help you until you are sick of the help! ;D They can help you in learning the test and then give the test to you.

In your area I would be not surprised if there was not more than one club.


And also maybe they will make you good deals on radios they want to get rid of. The ham curse is looking for a better radio, all are infected with it.

[osoab]

Thanks for the info. So, I will purchase this book, unless someone else wants to convince me otherwise: The ARRL General Class License Manual 7th Edition



I would do way better learning formulas than memorizing anything. I work with formulas all day long, and can't remember if I had lunch. This brain of mine, it is flawed.


k-os when you take the Technician test you should be able to take the General without paying extra cash on the test day. Check with your local club.

[freespirit]

as interesting as all this HAM information is, does anyone know anything about some of the other alternatives? any experience with field telephones per se?

[Korbin Dallas]

I picked up a few eXRS two-ways from BassPro. They have a good range over flat land, and have a billion channel possibilities for privacy. You can also text, which is useful if there are prying ears nearby. Best of all, no license required. I bought these to throw in BOB's and in the trunk of the cars, I keep the batteries out, taped to the outside.

I plan to upgrade to VHF or Ham at some point for better quality and range, but these will work for now, and the were cheap.

[steyr_m]

Thanks for the encouragement! I have never been afraid of being one of only a few females. I'm here on GSUS, aren't I? :)

OK, I found the website, with all of the books. Here's the link, in case anyone else is interested: http://www.arrl.org

I found lots of books, but nothing with "Technician" in the title. Do any of these seem right?

The ARRL General Class License Manual 7th Edition
Ham Radio License Manual Revised 2nd Edition
ARRL Handbook (2011 Softcover Edition)
The ARRL Operating Manual
Ham Radio License Manual Revised 2nd Edition

So, in your opinion, a person doesn't need any equipment to pass the test? I feel like it would be comparable to getting a software certification without having touched a computer. Seems odd to me.

The ARRL Handbook is very good. I bought the book and refer to the CD often....

[Glass]

as interesting as all this HAM information is, does anyone know anything about some of the other alternatives? any experience with field telephones per se?

YT Video - Communications - TA-312 and German Field Telephones (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQFnfdNHucw)

Doesn't really tell you much, other than a US and German unit can be hookd up together. It also references an Army Manual which has instructions on how to set up a field net. Probably more secure than OTA comms but you are going to need a bit of cable.

Some guy fiddling with a Swedish field radio. Looks like he just got it and is going through it. A bit disorienting as he moves the camera alot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8rkQcPzPwY&NR=1

Basically you are creating your own telephone network. You could do this:


Creating Your Own Telephone Network


http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/telephone3.gif


Not only is a telephone a simple device, but the connection between you and the phone company is even simpler. In fact, you can easily create your own intercom system using two telephones, a 9-volt battery (http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/battery.htm) (or some other simple power supply) and a 300-ohm resistor that you can get for a dollar at Radio Shack. You can wire it up like this:


http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/telephone4.htm
You could also do something with computer network cable (cat 5 or 6) and some devices called T/A's. T/A's are basically terminators you plug a normal telephone handset into. They terminate a communications network on one side and the phone on the other side. So Cat5 or Cat6 network plugs into one side of the T/A. The other end of the network cable runs back to a network switch. Connected to the switch is a PC running some kind of SIP software. SIP is the VoIP protocol system. It's kind of like the exchange or PBX system. On the other side of the T/A you plug in a normal telephone hand set. The T/A converts analogue (your voice) from the phone into TCP/IP traffic to go on to the cat5/6 cable/network. Cat5 is really only good for about 100 metres before it needs to be amplified.

[beefsteak]

Glass,
thank you for the link and posting the graphic you did from that link. A couple questions, okay?

Would you -or someone- be willing to tell me a couple things I'm missing?
I get the color code. I saw the explanation for red and green at the link.

What I don't get are the following:
1) The 9volt has 2 terminals + and - Doesn't it matter in that drawing?
2) The red wire with the resistor also has 2 terminals. + & -
3) Could someone please label which post is which on the battery so that the drawing makes more sense to me?
4) Does the resistor have a + end and a - end? Seems logical to me.
5) How does one who has never seen a resistor before, nor ever bought one know which is + or - ?
6) I see the wires going into the telephone units. Is there a pix somewhere with the bottom off the telephone so that I can see where to attach the green wire? the red wire?

Thanks for any and all help. I'm greener than green when it comes to electronic assembly, even tho' the pix looks self explanatory, and probably seems over simplified to those of you who understand this stuff.

THANKS!


beefsteak

[Dogman]

Glass,
thank you for the link and posting the graphic you did from that link. A couple questions, okay?

Would you -or someone- be willing to tell me a couple things I'm missing?
I get the color code. I saw the explanation for red and green at the link.

What I don't get are the following:
1) The 9volt has 2 terminals + and - Doesn't it matter in that drawing?
2) The red wire with the resistor also has 2 terminals. + & -
3) Could someone please label which post is which on the battery so that the drawing makes more sense to me?
4) Does the resistor have a + end and a - end? Seems logical to me.
5) How does one who has never seen a resistor before, nor ever bought one know which is + or - ?
6) I see the wires going into the telephone units. Is there a pix somewhere with the bottom off the telephone so that I can see where to attach the green wire? the red wire?

Thanks for any and all help. I'm greener than green when it comes to electronic assembly, even tho' the pix looks self explanatory, and probably seems over simplified to those of you who understand this stuff.

THANKS!


beefsteak If you are using the old style phones with no electronics in them, this hookup will work and polarity is not an issue, but it does not hurt to follow wiring convictions and make the red wire + and the green wire - .
As far as resistors , they have no polarity , they do not care which end is + or -.

So far as the connection to the phones, if it has a modular connector, use a phone extension cord and cut it and use those wires and end plug.

[gunDriller]

i've been thinking alot lately about this...what are we gonna do when they shut down the net? many of us (myself included) are not set up to stay in contact with others from both the forum and within their own networks/family.

HAM radio seems like a pretty decent alternative but aren't you required to be licensed before transmitting?

CB radio also seems like a good alternative, but has limited range.

cell phones are out, land lines are out....

what about military style old school field telephones? they look really rugged, but can you still get specialized batteries for them?


...i know, i know, lots of questions...lol

any thoughts?


there's nothing wrong with communication being FUN.

Ham Radio is fun for a lot of ham radio folks.

Me - "10-4 Good Buddy".

Them - "You're new here aren't you."


with the economy the way it is - i bet there's a lot of hams selling their rigs on Craigslist.

also, Nuts & Volts is a great magazine for buying electronics.

http://www.nutsvolts.com/

[beefsteak]

THANKS, DOGMAN!

A follow-up Q, please.

Would there be a "distance" limitation in rigging up this type of device, say between the greenhouse and the main house? Let's say 50'?


beefsteak

[Dogman]

THANKS, DOGMAN!

A follow-up Q, please.

Would there be a "distance" limitation in rigging up this type of device, say between the greenhouse and the main house? Let's say 50'?


beefsteak The only limiting factor is the resistance of the wire run, but you should be good for several 100's of feet and/or more. Before your wire run length resistance becomes so much the signal (voltage) would be lost.

You could use ohms law to figure out the voltage drop of the line, if you know your power supply voltage, current , total line resistance and resistance of the phones. Using the formulas you could figure out max wire length you can use for a given power source (voltage and current) by plugging in the different wire length resistances.

But you would also have to know before hand what the minimum power required to operate both phones. Knowing the minimum power needed, you could determine the max line length that can be used , before the voltage drop falls below the minimum level. The down side the closer you run things to the max length the shorter the usable battery life you will have.

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_5/2.html


Edit: Early morning , low caffeine lever still, may have missed something!

[freespirit]

there's nothing wrong with communication being FUN.

Ham Radio is fun for a lot of ham radio folks.

Me - "10-4 Good Buddy".

Them - "You're new here aren't you."


with the economy the way it is - i bet there's a lot of hams selling their rigs on Craigslist.

also, Nuts & Volts is a great magazine for buying electronics.

http://www.nutsvolts.com/


i never said there was anything wrong with communication being fun. however, the application i am envisioning (post-SHTF) is a serious situation. i am simply trying to gather some feedback to several comm options, not just HAM radio...

[DMac]

Bump for more SWR discussion

[Glass]

Wifi is another option. With focused antenna, yagis and the like you could get fairly decent range wifi. If you use a couple of old DSL routers, they should have some network ports to plug stuff into. You might need to fiddle a bit but you can build a Voice over IP system or basically your own telephone exchange. You need a SIP server which might add a high degree of technical difficulty for a lot of people but there are ways and ways to get this kind of stuff done. A couple of voip w/ATA handsets and you are good to go.

You can also pickup Wifi amplifiers which can lift the wifi signal into the 4 - 5watt output range. That would be good for directional line of sight, maybe 3 miles or so. You can't use the amplifiers normally but in SHTF who cares?

[palani]

http://aintel.bi.ehu.es/psk31.html

PSK31 is something like a terminal to terminal program. You could do the same thing point to point using a modem but this software allows you to send an audio signal from one computer through a telephone handset without modem to another computer. A soundcard is used at both computers. This would be similar to the dedicated tty systems set up circa WWII. The carrier frequency is 1 khz +/- 50hz and allows typing at 50 wpm.

The application over ham radio is set up at one precisely defined frequency on each band.

[Glass]

driving down the road, it's 2:30 am. You come across an accident. No phone reception. What you going to do? Got a radio. Had one tonight. Car off road. Its a wreck. Fears driver is injured. It's dark. It takes a while to get bearings. Turns out driver is ok, now they are out of the car. Put in call to get someone on scene. It takes a couple of go's because info is sketchy. Need to think about what info you need to get so you can report properly..... sounds simple but in the heat of the moment....

just to clarify, I was not on scene, I took the PAN PAN and passed it on.