WTF DOW down 300 and PM's getting hammered

[General of Darkness]

This doesn't make much sense.

[mamboni]

This doesn't make much sense.

At the Morgue, this is referred to as 'dickstabbing the markets.'

Seriously, you have to remain calm and ride it out. QE3 will come. But for now, the FED will allow deflation to set the proper political tone for more money printing. The large banks are leveraged 30, 50 and 100 to 1 and insolvent. They cannot survive deflation long term. But short term they have access to free money and suspended accounting rules. Nothing is real in this market, not prices, not interest rates, not even government numbers. Keep your eye on the prize: physical gold and silver and tangibles like food, water and shelter. Everything else is smoke and mirrors.

[Joe King]

This doesn't make much sense.



Thursday's flight from risk differed from those seen over recent weeks as gold--often considered a "haven" asset--plunged as the dollar surged. (http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20110922-708550.html)
Gold slumped to a four-week low, under pressure from a surging U.S. dollar as investors turned to cash amid worries about a global slowdown. Gold for December delivery recently traded 3.6% lower, at $1,742.20 a troy ounce on the Comex division of the New York Mercantile Exchange. (http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20110922-708550.html)
"You got to a point today when [losses across markets] accelerated, that people will be liquidating whatever they can," said Frank Lesh, a broker with FuturePath Trading. (http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20110922-708550.html)

I can't tell ya how many times I've heard "cash is King" by people when they believe they are facing hard times.

[JJ.G0ldD0t]

1126

[Dogman]

Thursday's flight from risk differed from those seen over recent weeks as gold--often considered a "haven" asset--plunged as the dollar surged. (http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20110922-708550.html)
Gold slumped to a four-week low, under pressure from a surging U.S. dollar as investors turned to cash amid worries about a global slowdown. Gold for December delivery recently traded 3.6% lower, at $1,742.20 a troy ounce on the Comex division of the New York Mercantile Exchange. (http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20110922-708550.html)
"You got to a point today when [losses across markets] accelerated, that people will be liquidating whatever they can," said Frank Lesh, a broker with FuturePath Trading. (http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20110922-708550.html)

I can't tell ya how many times I've heard "cash is King" by people when they believe they are facing hard times.In a small way it is sort of true, Considering that dollars in hand v/s electronic one is like ponce's world famous saying "If you do not hold it you do not own it"

But those that hold to that line of thought, do not think that the value of the dollar is a made up number that is variable because its true value is what is said it should be, in the play acting of the current mindset.

The key is what can you buy for a flat dollar? And over my 50 + years of hands on money and what it could buy, that dollar is buying less and less.

Which is why we all dream of owning p/m"s some of us can achieve the dream, but most have the damnedest luck with boats and other outdoor activity's,

http://s3.hubimg.com/u/401250_f520.jpg

[joe_momma]

Couple of thoughts -

1) There's roughly $700 Trillion in dollar equivalents floating around the planet in paper assets (stocks, bonds, CDS, derivatives, etc..)
2) The world's entire GDP is somewhere around $50 trillion (and only a fraction of this is connected to the paper)
3) The valuation of many of the "assets" used as collateral are complete fabrications (e.g., the value of the thousands of empty homes in Las Vegas) - the banks are permitted to value them far above what the market will currently pay for them.

Net net, there's way to much paper stacked on far too few actual assets - everything is leveraged multiple times on underlying assets. This problem is world wide - literally the entire world has maxed out all of their credit cards, until recently they'd resorted using one card to make the minimum payment on another (the many emergency Euro loans to the PIIGS has been to ensure that the countries make their minimum payment [not exactly true but close enough]).

Since the world is now "tapped out" the situation is getting unstable - institutions getting pinched by immediate debts are now selling "the family jewels" as well as everything else to keep from defaulting.

At this point, I do not think it is possible to predict the true "value" of anything - the pricing mechanisms have been so distorted that paper based pricing is utterly unreliable. Hard assets (e.g., PMs) will likely retain "value" since they cannot be "printed out of thin air" - everything else? - who knows.

Recommendation - buy the dips!

[Joe King]

Dogman, I hear ya, and agree. The masses just see it for what it can buy right now. With no eye to what it may or may not buy later on.

[Sparky]

In a small way it is sort of true, Considering that dollars in hand v/s electronic one is like ponce's world famous saying "If you do not hold it you do not own it"

But those that hold to that line of thought, do not think that the value of the dollar is a made up number that is variable because its true value is what is said it should be, in the play acting of the current mindset.

The key is what can you buy for a flat dollar? And over my 50 + years of hands on money and what it could buy, that dollar is buying less and less.

Which is why we all dream of owning p/m"s some of us can achieve the dream, but most have the damnedest luck with boats and other outdoor activity's,

http://s3.hubimg.com/u/401250_f520.jpg

It's important to understand the difference between the U.S. Dollar Index (i.e. the "strength of the U.S. dollar") versus its purchasing power. The Dollar Index is a relative measure against other currencies, primarily the Euro. No matter what you think of the Dollar, the Euro looks much sicker right now. This explains the strengthening of the dollar, which in turn, explains the hit to the metals market.

The strengthening of the dollar influences prices on foreign/global tangible items, such as gold, oil, copper, etc. The weakening of its purchasing power is primarily as compared to domestic products, like food, services, insurance, etc. This is why the dollar can strengthen while its domestic buying power weakens.

[Dogman]

Couple of thoughts -

1) There's roughly $700 Trillion in dollar equivalents floating around the planet in paper assets (stocks, bonds, CDS, derivatives, etc..)
2) The world's entire GDP is somewhere around $50 trillion (and only a fraction of this is connected to the paper)
3) The valuation of many of the "assets" used as collateral are complete fabrications (e.g., the value of the thousands of empty homes in Las Vegas) - the banks are permitted to value them far above what the market will currently pay for them.

Net net, there's way to much paper stacked on far too few actual assets - everything is leveraged multiple times on underlying assets. This problem is world wide - literally the entire world has maxed out all of their credit cards, until recently they'd resorted using one card to make the minimum payment on another (the many emergency Euro loans to the PIIGS has been to ensure that the countries make their minimum payment [not exactly true but close enough]).

Since the world is now "tapped out" the situation is getting unstable - institutions getting pinched by immediate debts are now selling "the family jewels" as well as everything else to keep from defaulting.

At this point, I do not think it is possible to predict the true "value" of anything - the pricing mechanisms have been so distorted that paper based pricing is utterly unreliable. Hard assets (e.g., PMs) will likely retain "value" since they cannot be "printed out of thin air" - everything else? - who knows.

Recommendation - buy the dips!Lot's of truths and wisdom. The edges of the system are becoming frayed and why in the hell do you see in the papers (news) of these traveling motel (hotel) buyers looking for anything of value and paying mountain man prices? People are hurting, and jump at chances to sell for a buck, what may be worth many times more, because of lack of knowledge,(homework).

[Ponce]

Is PM going out the back door, and being boutht by the big guys, as soon as it come in the front door and being sold by the little guy?

Many of you are waiting for PM to go "down" in order to buy it......but......will there be any to buy?.

I for one don't care if PM goes up and down (for now) but what I look at is what is happening when this is going on.....I kow that all this up and down is nothing more than window dressing (as you should) and what is going on behind the window is what I look at.

First post of the day...........good morning to one and all.

[Dogman]

It's important to understand the difference between the U.S. Dollar Index (i.e. the "strength of the U.S. dollar") versus its purchasing power. The Dollar Index is a relative measure against other currencies, primarily the Euro. No matter what you think of the Dollar, the Euro looks much sicker right now. This explains the strengthening of the dollar, which in turn, explains the hit to the metals market.

The strengthening of the dollar influences prices on foreign/global tangible items, such as gold, oil, copper, etc. The weakening of its purchasing power is primarily as compared to domestic products, like food, services, insurance, etc. This is why the dollar can strengthen while its domestic buying power weakens.Yes agree!

But still considering the historical long term, values have been sliding (sometimes faster , sometimes slower) down.

[bl96S5eu]

What would a dow or pm drop thread be without this classic movie clip?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcW_Ygs6hm0

[joe_momma]

I can imagine a remake of Strangelove where the, in the new version, Sarkozy has to call Ben and explain that one of their bank execs has "Gone and done a silly thing...."

[mike88]

metals pretty close to the 200 day moving average. Somewhere a huge amount of money is needed, everything down today, oil,metals,stocks.

[mamboni]

Kudos to Joe_momma and Sparky: excellent analysis and recommendations.

Much appreciated!

[ximmy]

I don't need any metal but I'm thinking of buying anyway... ;D

[MAGNES]

This doesn't make much sense.

We've seen this before, I was expecting this, Oct specials, 3 rd week of Sept,
for the general market, was looking for a pop this week in gold and silver,
silver held up pretty good if you look at the charts, it didn't follow gold to new highs
but stayed in the 40 range for a while, was looking for a short term pop, for a small play setup,
I put my hands up yesterday at this time. Wishful thinking yes, I am more cautious now, sometimes
there are good short term setups, they are more trouble than they are worth. lol
http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?54344-Wtf-did-the-protestant-have-to-say&p=461335&viewfull=1#post461335

The main factor was the general equity market I was looking at,
there is bad news everywhere and we had no summer drops really.

Silver did hold up pretty good for a while considering.

Personally I don't think they will do a full correction cause we
are in the season now just before Dec, to control gold they can
bring it down to 1600 previous resistance broken line and be
able to control it. That's 15 % drop at that level.

SI broke a pennant and broke resistance lines, a lot of this basic tech is self fulling,
http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=$SILVER&p=D&yr=1&mn=0&dy=0&id=p42106480801# (http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=$SILVER&p=D&yr=1&mn=0&dy=0&id=p42106480801#)
Next stop for SI is previous lows we had if gold does not turn around fast.

If they do a full correction on gold, where will SI land, ? .
Gold looks like it can take a serious dump.
http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=$GOLD&p=D&yr=1&mn=0&dy=0&id=p42106480801# (http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=$GOLD&p=D&yr=1&mn=0&dy=0&id=p42106480801#)

I think this chart still matters. Not so much in SI anymore cause of the volumes.
http://snalaska.net/cot/current/charts/GC.png They never really killed shorts, just OI,
holding the line in the mid 1500. http://snalaska.net/cot/current/charts/SI.png

I am watching the general market more now.

[ximmy]

I just bought some metal spot@36.10... just couldn't help myself :p ;D

[Joe King]

I just bought some metal spot@36.10... just couldn't help myself :p ;DAs of right now you're up 1% and climbing.
Not bad for 15 minutes. lol

How it goes from here, who knows.

[Gaillo]

I'll bet 1970SilverArt is laughing his ass off today! ;D

[MAGNES]

I just bought some metal spot@36.10... just couldn't help myself :p ;D

Gold is sitting right on 1750, short term this is the number to watch.

If it comes back hard short term you did good :p, if it doesn't you still did good.;D

SI broke key support at 37.50, we watch gold to tell us where it goes from here.>:D

Just in case you missed it I predicted roughly 1600 gold high,
as target using basic 50 % consolidation points, gold hit 1585,
and I predicted on here 1950 high again using the same basic
tech analysis method, gold hit 1920.O0

This is all basic tech analysis and no voodoo and largely works cause
it is a self fulling prophecy, where do you put your stops, etc, basing
creating a new line, breaking it, buy stops triggered. etc SI just got
some major stops triggered.

At this level 20 bucks on gold on those numbers I gave does not matter.

Fibonacci is voodoo and this is more basic than that, with Fib you can make
your numbers look perfect, those are games.

I just thought I wold elaborate. For those that missed it
and those that are interested in learning. Especially those
here that like to take shots that we don't discuss metals on
here. Right !

[mamboni]

I'm gonna wait - but sub $36 silver is a buy buy buy. But I don't want to catch a falling knife. As sson as this sucker looks to have bottomed, I will load up on silver [PSLV].

[MAGNES]

Someone turned on a switch.

For a laugh, this is from drudge headline, a total propaganda piece from CNBC,
Bernanke wrote this himself. LOL

Global Meltdown: Investors Are Dumping Nearly Everything

http://www.cnbc.com/id/44626413

[osoab]

Blue Light Special on Ag today, courtesy of CRIMEX.

[Ponce]

Buy, buy, buy.......but.......from where, where, WHERE........good luck in your gold hunting......and silver of course.

[Sparky]

metals pretty close to the 200 day moving average. Somewhere a huge amount of money is needed, everything down today, oil,metals,stocks.

Well, silver is, at just below $36.00 But gold is $1510.

[gunDriller]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UReypV7nOa8

Mug Root Beer Demonstration, "Backing up the Truck"

[gunDriller]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UReypV7nOa8

[madfranks]

I'll bet 1970SilverArt is laughing his ass off today! ;D

We're getting ever closer and closer to the end of the year, and $50 silver is starting to look harder and harder to obtain...

[Gaillo]

We're getting ever closer and closer to the end of the year, and $50 physical silver is starting to look harder and harder to obtain...

Fixed that for ya... ;D

[Serpo]

What would a dow or pm drop thread be without this classic movie clip?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcW_Ygs6hm0

It was just a scatch

[mick silver]

We're getting ever closer and closer to the end of the year, and $50 silver is starting to look harder and harder to obtain...

i dont know but i think there some thing big about to happen and it beating every thing down . but i still think we can see 50 buck silver before the years end . well anyways i was in the big town i did pick up a few oz to add to my real money

[sunshine05]

I'm thinking about buying some silver tomorrow.

[Gaillo]

I'm thinking about buying some silver tomorrow.

Don't think about it... just DO IT. I won't be able to until Monday... hope it's not too late by then! :(

[Shami-Amourae]

I just wonder if we have a dead cat bounce. Prices are going up very fast right now.

[gunDriller]

Don't think about it... just DO IT. I won't be able to until Monday... hope it's not too late by then! :(

Australia opened up down 1/2 % - now it's down 2%. (for Friday Sept. 23).

http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/stocks/world-indexes/


in this case, gold & silver are tracking with the stock markets.


i think it'll have a nice low close for the weekend.

i don't think it'll be too late on Monday to enjoy the bargain prices.

[osoab]

Australia opened up down 1/2 % - now it's down 2%. (for Friday Sept. 23).

http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/stocks/world-indexes/


in this case, gold & silver are tracking with the stock markets.


i think it'll have a nice low close for the weekend.

i don't think it'll be too late on Monday to enjoy the bargain prices.


2%-5% for a day is nothing. Ag was down 11.8% earlier today. The price may have gone down further than that but that is the number I remember seeing.

Dow numbers mean nothing to me. 30 stocks are indicative of the whole economy?
What's Apple's weighting on the NASDAQ. Something like 20%+ isn't?

Index numbers are just flashing red and green lights for the sheep. Good 15 sec filler for the nightly news.

The unfortunate part is that good companies get taken down when it is "sell everything day".

[MNeagle]

You still have Sunday night PM markets too to consider...

[1970 silver art]

I'll bet 1970SilverArt is laughing his ass off today! ;D

Hell yeah I was laughing my ass off yesterday. I had fun laughing at the people who were seriously expecting silver to hit $50 this year. JPM still has control over silver and it is certainly possible that silver could bottom out at $26.00 and it is also certainly possible that.............................


GASP!!!!!!!!!

Silver could finish 2011 in the red (any close below $30.91). However, I will still hold to what I said a few months ago and that is silver could finish somewhere between $37 and $41 on December 31, 2011.

[1970 silver art]

Hey Ponce, Check this out and especially check out where silver is................

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx54/COScollect/09232011Beatdown-1.gif

It will be time very soon to pay your tp debt to me. :)

[LastResort]

Beep, Beep, Beep, look out theres a truck backing up. :)

[osoab]

Damn glad I didn't buy a bit yesterday.

What is the trigger for this? Everything was running up last night (equities and commodities). I see the bucky moved a little higher overnight.

[JJ.G0ldD0t]

Damn glad I didn't buy a bit yesterday.

What is the trigger for this? Everything was running up last night (equities and commodities). I see the bucky moved a little higher overnight.



That's what I wanna know- I just woke up and saw the #'s... Holy crap man. I wanna buy some more - but is it done dropping?

[osoab]

That's what I wanna know- I just woke up and saw the #'s... Holy crap man. I wanna buy some more - but is it done dropping?


Found this over at ZH.

China, Japan Tell Europe: "No Blank Check For You" (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/china-japan-tell-europe-no-blank-check-you)

[1970 silver art]

Waiting to collect 3 rolls of tp from Ponce. $26 silver here we come.......................

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx54/COScollect/09232011Beatdown2.gif

This is going to be an awesome day for me. Looks like we might see $31 (or lower) silver today. WINNING!!!!!!!!!

[osoab]

Waiting to collect 3 rolls of tp from Ponce. $26 silver here we come.......................

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx54/COScollect/09232011Beatdown2.gif

This is going to be an awesome day for me. Looks like we might see $31 (or lower) silver today. WINNING!!!!!!!!!

We will not break the 32 FRN floor.

[MAGNES]

I'll keep all my comments together on this drop.
Charts here that are keepers.
http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?54371-WTF-DOW-down-300-and-PM-s-getting-hammered&p=461791&viewfull=1#post461791

Gold is sitting right on 1750, short term this is the number to watch.

SI broke key support at 37.50, we watch gold to tell us where it goes from here.

http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?54371-WTF-DOW-down-300-and-PM-s-getting-hammered&p=461811&viewfull=1#post461811


Gold looks like it can take a serious dump.
http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=$GOLD&p=D&yr=1&mn=0&dy=0&id=p42106480801# (http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=$GOLD&p=D&yr=1&mn=0&dy=0&id=p42106480801#)


1750 is strong resistance now, the pennant has been clearly broken, SI
signaled this, it was frontrunning GC as we have seen on major moves many
times, SI is very weak, it broke previous support from summer and spring,
and it did not bounce up on it, GC still has a way to go, the target using
similar methods and resistance for GC short term is 1620-1600 range,
if they are serious of taking gold down harder it won't be easy going through
the wall down to 1400, they will use tricks and overnight/overseas. SI looks
like it will be getting killed if that happens. So again watch gold. It is not
bouncing up, both charts look very weak, there are no buyers, that's why
the charts look so flat. My first post here has charts that are keepers for your
drive, you should be saving charts like that to compare year to year, day candles.
And that is an excellent chart site to use for other stuff, including index overviews.
If you are buying physical you should buy it, low 20's it will evaporate to nonexistence,
after high premiums in $8-10 range, we saw this in 2008 and documented it .
http://i54.tinypic.com/xn6qlh.gif
http://i53.tinypic.com/29ehbow.gif

[1970 silver art]

We will not break the 32 FRN floor.

Uh...........Osoab.............You might want to take a look at this..................

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx54/COScollect/09232011Beatdown3.gif

[JJ.G0ldD0t]

I'm learning never to say never...

[Joe King]

I'm learning never to say never...
So how's your Dad takin' all this? Did he actually get in a week or so ago, like you were saying he wanted to? Or did he end up holding off?

[JJ.G0ldD0t]

So how's your Dad takin' all this? Did he actually get in a week or so ago, like you were saying he wanted to? Or did he end up holding off?


He actually kinda pissed me off today - called him to let him know I was on the way to the shop. I asked if he was ready to do this.

He said "naa I haven't pulled the money out yet." :mad:


Me: DAMMIT DAD! I don't know how long this sale will be on. GET YOUR CASH OUT!

::)

so I'm still waiting on him.

I guess it's all good - I hope he gets it together before it starts back up.

[Joe King]

Well, at least didn't go "all in" last week like you were sayin' he was wanting to do. He'll probably drag his feet on it due to this drop.

Just be glad he didn't get in last week or you'd have been the one getting the phone call today. lol

[JJ.G0ldD0t]

Well, at least didn't go "all in" last week like you were sayin' he was wanting to do. He'll probably drag his feet on it due to this drop.

Just be glad he didn't get in last week or you'd have been the one getting the phone call today. lol

Ain't that the truth.

[Sparky]

metals pretty close to the 200 day moving average. Somewhere a huge amount of money is needed, everything down today, oil,metals,stocks.


Well, silver is, at just below $36.00 But gold is $1510.

Wow, wild overnight action. Gold dropped $120 like a stone to $1530, and has quickly gained nearly half of it back. It sure got close to the 200 DMA a lot faster than I would have guessed. And silver blew its 200 DMA out of the water by 10 bucks.

[Celtic Rogue]

Hey Ponce, Check this out and especially check out where silver is................

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx54/COScollect/09232011Beatdown-1.gif

It will be time very soon to pay your tp debt to me. :)

As we all have seen ... we are dealing with a market that is very volatile and swings can be like a roller coaster ride. I believe that any celebration in regard to the toilet paper win is a bit premature. In my opinion there is time enough to be at $50 silver and above. LOL and with this market it may happen a couple of times! Fingers crossed!

[1970 silver art]

As we all have seen ... we are dealing with a market that is very volatile and swings can be like a roller coaster ride. I believe that any celebration in regard to the toilet paper win is a bit premature. In my opinion there is time enough to be at $50 silver and above. LOL and with this market it may happen a couple of times! Fingers crossed!

As I expected, the $26 silver bottom has been achieved and it is bouncing off that $26 bottom...............

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx54/COScollect/26LOW.gif

Silver will NOT hit $50 in 2011. :)

[Shami-Amourae]

I stayed up to watch the show. So far $26 held pretty well, but will see if it continues to hold for the rest of the day/week.

[1970 silver art]

I stayed up to watch the show. So far $26 held pretty well, but will see if it continues to hold for the rest of the day/week.

I think that the $26 silver bottom will hold through NY trading today and I feel that it will hold for this week. This will be a very interesting day as well as an interesting week. We will see what happens.