View Full Version : What type of silver rounds?
Katmandu
23rd September 2011, 03:22 PM
As a relative gold and silver PM owner newbie, the silver that I have is 90%; I have no SAEs and no rounds. I'd like to diversify.
I don't know much about rounds. What are some favorite rounds amongst the GSUS forum members?
Thanks in advance!
JJ.G0ldD0t
23rd September 2011, 03:32 PM
I hate having to fork over premiums.
When I go to the shop. I buy generic. Sure I've got SAE's - but for the amount of FRNs they want per oz the premiums just aren't worth it.
I'd look for any round that strikes your fancy from an aesthetic standpoint stamped .999 fine silver.
You'll find that you will pay 3-4 dollars over spot as opposed to 6-8.
JJ.G0ldD0t
23rd September 2011, 03:33 PM
also - check out bars - same rules.
Sparky
23rd September 2011, 03:35 PM
Rule #1 about silver rounds is that they indicate weight and purity.
After that, the most popular silver round is the American Prospector, minted by Engelhard in the 1980s. They are really the only "stand-out" round which commands a little extra premium. You will also pay a premium if you buy newly minted rounds. It's debatable whether either of those premiums are worth paying. I have some Prospectors and I do like them, mostly because Engelhard is one of the most recognizable manufacturers, along with Johnson & Mathey. They have a very attractive design.
But none of that is as important as Rule #1.
ximmy
23rd September 2011, 03:37 PM
I'd stick with gov. issued bullion or Engelhard rounds, generic is a no-no for me...
Sparky
23rd September 2011, 03:37 PM
...
I'd look for any round that strikes your fancy from an aesthetic standpoint stamped .999 [I]fine silver.
...
Correction: stamped 1 Troy Ounce .999 silver.
JJ.G0ldD0t
23rd September 2011, 03:39 PM
Unless it's 2 or 5 or 10
I figured that was a given. ;)
MNeagle
23rd September 2011, 04:34 PM
I'd stick with gov. issued bullion or Engelhard rounds, generic is a no-no for me...
Which ones are considered gov. issued?
madfranks
23rd September 2011, 04:45 PM
Be diligent to avoid fraud - there are some sneaky ones out there right now, like this one, 1 troy oz ounce german silver bullion buffalo art bar (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-troy-oz-ounce-german-silver-bullion-buffalo-art-bar-NO-RESERVE-FREE-SHIPPING-/220862591693?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336c6fb2cd) (german silver is nickel-copper-zinc alloy), and others that say "100 mills fine silver" (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1oz-100-MILLS-999-SILVER-BUFFALO-BAR-1x-1oz-BAR-/200590264508?pt=AU_Bullion&hash=item2eb41c88bc) (meaning silver plated), or those that just say "one troy ounce", "one troy pound", but don't list the purity or the metal. You will get taken for your money if you don't know what you're buying. If you're new at this, stay away from ebay (which is where most of the fraud silver is) and buy local.
ximmy
23rd September 2011, 04:48 PM
Which ones are considered gov. issued?
SAE's, Maples, Britannias, Mexican Libertads, Australian Kookaburras, Chinese Pandas, etc
1970 silver art
23rd September 2011, 04:49 PM
Be diligent to avoid fraud - there are some sneaky ones out there right now, like this one, 1 troy oz ounce german silver bullion buffalo art bar (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-troy-oz-ounce-german-silver-bullion-buffalo-art-bar-NO-RESERVE-FREE-SHIPPING-/220862591693?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336c6fb2cd) (german silver is nickel-copper-zinc alloy), and others that say "100 mills fine silver" (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1oz-100-MILLS-999-SILVER-BUFFALO-BAR-1x-1oz-BAR-/200590264508?pt=AU_Bullion&hash=item2eb41c88bc) (meaning silver plated), or those that just say "one troy ounce", "one troy pound", but don't list the purity or the metal. You will get taken for your money if you don't know what you're buying. If you're new at this, stay away from ebay (which is where most of the fraud silver is) and buy local.
I agree 100% on this. I would also add buy saying to also avoid those 1-gram silver art bars on ebay because I do not feel they are worth the premiums that I have been seeing them sell there.
Sparky
23rd September 2011, 07:03 PM
Unless it's 2 or 5 or 10
I figured that was a given. ;)
I bought a silver round once. Didn't feel right when I brought it home, and it didn't say 1 ounce on it. Turns out it was a .999 silver casino token that weighed about 0.85 ounce. I brought it back and the dealer weighed it, and gave me an exchange.
1970 silver art
23rd September 2011, 07:30 PM
I bought a silver round once. Didn't feel right when I brought it home, and it didn't say 1 ounce on it. Turns out it was a .999 silver casino token that weighed about 0.85 ounce. I brought it back and the dealer weighed it, and gave me an exchange.
I have seen those silver casino tokens in the past at some of the dealers in my area. My dealer used to have those in his shop but I am guessing that he either 1.) sent them to the smelter to have them melted down or 2.) ended up selling them on ebay.
Katmandu
23rd September 2011, 07:45 PM
Thanks for the insight.
Here is a list some .999 silver that Tulving has for sale, for large minimum orders. See questions below.
Spot + 69c An Oz - JM / Engelhard 100 Oz .999*Silver Bars
Spot + 79c An Oz - Amark 10 Oz .999 Silver Bars-Brand New Bars
Spot + 79c An Oz - NTR Metals 10 Oz Silver Bars BU .999 Silver - Brand New Bars
Spot + 89c An Oz - JM Only 100 Oz .999*Silver Bars - Brand New Bars
Spot + 89c An Oz - Golden State Mint 1/2 Oz .999 Morgan BU Silver Rounds
Spot + 99c An Oz - 1 Oz .999 Buffalo BU Silver Rounds - Brand New Rounds
Spot + 99c An Oz - RCM (Royal Canadian Mint) 100 Oz .9999 Silver Bars - Yes They Are .9999 Pure Silver
Spot + $1.89 An Oz - 2011 Sealed Mint Boxes Of 5 Oz. Glacier National Park (U.S. Mint)
Spot + $1.89 An Oz - 2011 Sealed Mint Boxes Of 5 Oz. Gettysburg National Military Park (U.S. Mint)
Spot + $1.89 An Oz - 2011 Sealed Mint Boxes Of 5 Oz. Olympic National Park (U.S. Mint)
Spot + $1.89 An Oz - 2011 Sealed Mint Boxes Of 5 Oz. Vicksburg National Military Park (U.S. Mint)
Spot + $1.99 An Oz - 2011 Sealed Mint Boxes Of 1 Oz. Silver Canadian Mapleleaf - 500 Brand New Coins
Spot + $2.49 An Oz - 2011 Sealed Mint Boxes Of 5 Oz. Chickasaw National Recreation Area (U.S. Mint)
Spot + $2.79 An Oz - 2011 Sealed Mint Boxes Of 1 Oz. Silver American Eagles
Spot + $2.79 An Oz - 2011 Sealed Mint Boxes Of "San Francisco Mint" 1 Oz. Silver American Eagles
Spot + $3.49 An Oz - 2012 Sealed Mint Boxes Of 1 Oz Silver Canadian Cougar (Wildlife Series)
From this list, are there any that you would *definitely* get? And are there any that you would not recommend?
I looked at some images of the America The Beautiful series listed above, and I don't see the purity stamped on the coin or the word silver on the coin. Would these then be a no-no, or does the lack of silver content ID not matter because they are US mint and well known coins?
Katmandu
23rd September 2011, 07:46 PM
I'd stick with gov. issued bullion or Engelhard rounds, generic is a no-no for me...
Can you give me a few examples of some popular generic rounds, although they are a no-no for you?
1970 silver art
23rd September 2011, 07:53 PM
Can you give me a few examples of some popular generic rounds, although they are a no-no for you?
If you are just going for the silver content only and not for collecting, then Engelhard and Johnson Matthey silver rounds are the top brands to go with IMO but some local dealers will charge a higher premium for them because of their popularity. The America the Beautiful 5-oz silver are geared towards collectors if I am not mistaken.
1970 silver art
23rd September 2011, 07:57 PM
Thanks for the insight.
Here is a list some .999 silver that Tulving has for sale, for large minimum orders. See questions below.
Spot + 69c An Oz - JM / Engelhard 100 Oz .999*Silver Bars
Spot + 79c An Oz - Amark 10 Oz .999 Silver Bars-Brand New Bars
Spot + 79c An Oz - NTR Metals 10 Oz Silver Bars BU .999 Silver - Brand New Bars
Spot + 89c An Oz - JM Only 100 Oz .999*Silver Bars - Brand New Bars
Spot + 89c An Oz - Golden State Mint 1/2 Oz .999 Morgan BU Silver Rounds
Spot + 99c An Oz - 1 Oz .999 Buffalo BU Silver Rounds - Brand New Rounds
Spot + 99c An Oz - RCM (Royal Canadian Mint) 100 Oz .9999 Silver Bars - Yes They Are .9999 Pure Silver
Spot + $1.89 An Oz - 2011 Sealed Mint Boxes Of 5 Oz. Glacier National Park (U.S. Mint)
Spot + $1.89 An Oz - 2011 Sealed Mint Boxes Of 5 Oz. Gettysburg National Military Park (U.S. Mint)
Spot + $1.89 An Oz - 2011 Sealed Mint Boxes Of 5 Oz. Olympic National Park (U.S. Mint)
Spot + $1.89 An Oz - 2011 Sealed Mint Boxes Of 5 Oz. Vicksburg National Military Park (U.S. Mint)
Spot + $1.99 An Oz - 2011 Sealed Mint Boxes Of 1 Oz. Silver Canadian Mapleleaf - 500 Brand New Coins
Spot + $2.49 An Oz - 2011 Sealed Mint Boxes Of 5 Oz. Chickasaw National Recreation Area (U.S. Mint)
Spot + $2.79 An Oz - 2011 Sealed Mint Boxes Of 1 Oz. Silver American Eagles
Spot + $2.79 An Oz - 2011 Sealed Mint Boxes Of "San Francisco Mint" 1 Oz. Silver American Eagles
Spot + $3.49 An Oz - 2012 Sealed Mint Boxes Of 1 Oz Silver Canadian Cougar (Wildlife Series)
From this list, are there any that you would *definitely* get? And are there any that you would not recommend?
I looked at some images of the America The Beautiful series listed above, and I don't see the purity stamped on the coin or the word silver on the coin. Would these then be a no-no, or does the lack of silver content ID not matter because they are US mint and well known coins?
100-oz bars may have the lowest premium but they might be harder to sell later on because of past bars being fake and some dealers might want them tested before they accept them. Just my opinion on 100-oz silver bars.
Sparky
23rd September 2011, 10:04 PM
Although those products are all legit, most of those aren't for newbies. Don't be laying out several thousand dollars in one concentrated area, like 100-ounce bars or 500 coin boxes of collector coins if you are a beginner. Tulving usually caters to large orders. I'd recommend you go over to Apmex, make a smaller assorted order, and see what you are comfortable with after you get them.
Here's a suggested list that will cost about $2200 right now:
One roll (20) uncirculated SAE, random year, plus a few more to play with: 23@ $35.53= $817.19
One roll (20) Sunshine Mint 1-ounce rounds 20@$34.53= $690.60
At least one 10-ounce silver bar (Apmex, Sunshine Mint, or Silvertown) $343.30
One roll (20) of pre-1965 half dollars (avg circulation) $259.94
A couple other sovereign silver coins (e.g. Canadian Maple) $75
Also, I recommend owning both silver and gold, so if you don't have gold, get some of that too. For starters, just buy a 1/2 ounce Gold American Eagle, which is currently about $920.
This weekend is a great entry point after this big drop, before the market opens Sunday night. Prices could drop more, but this weekend is a great opportunity for newbies.
Whatever amount you have to spend on this, spend 50-75% of it this weekend. If you want to provide a ballpark amount you are looking to spend, I can modify the list for you.
These are just suggestions. The decision is yours.
Katmandu
23rd September 2011, 10:31 PM
Although those products are all legit, most of those aren't for newbies. Don't be laying out several thousand dollars in one concentrated area, like 100-ounce bars or 500 coin boxes of collector coins if you are a beginner. Tulving usually caters to large orders. I'd recommend you go over to Apmex, make a smaller assorted order, and see what you are comfortable with after you get them.
Here's a suggested list that will cost about $2200 right now:
One roll (20) uncirculated SAE, random year, plus a few more to play with: 23@ $35.53= $817.19
One roll (20) Sunshine Mint 1-ounce rounds 20@$34.53= $690.60
At least one 10-ounce silver bar (Apmex, Sunshine Mint, or Silvertown) $343.30
One roll (20) of pre-1965 half dollars (avg circulation) $259.94
A couple other sovereign silver coins (e.g. Canadian Maple) $75
Also, I recommend owning both silver and gold, so if you don't have gold, get some of that too. For starters, just buy a 1/2 ounce Gold American Eagle, which is currently about $920.
This weekend is a great entry point after this big drop, before the market opens Sunday night. Prices could drop more, but this weekend is a great opportunity for newbies.
Whatever amount you have to spend on this, spend 50-75% of it this weekend. If you want to provide a ballpark amount you are looking to spend, I can modify the list for you.
These are just suggestions. The decision is yours.
Sparky, thanks for the good advice.
I do have some gold too, all in fractional gold eagles. A bit less than 50% of my stash is gold.
I am looking to spend up to $5k, maybe $7.5k this weekend in silver due to the favorable G/S ratio.
Goldshark.com shows that DBS Coins and Texas Precious Metals have some of the good prices on silver without the large minimums that Tulving has. Anyone ever deal with them?
I see that a lot of vendors carry the Buffalo silver round. Is there any significant difference between having a Buffalo vs. the Sunshine Mint round?
Sorry for all the simpleton questions. I feel like a sponge right now soaking it all in.
banjo
23rd September 2011, 11:03 PM
Sparky, thanks for the good advice.
Sorry for all the simpleton questions. I feel like a sponge right now soaking it all in.
Thanks for posting the questions. You're not the only one with those questions, I assure you. I've been following along as I'm kind of in the same boat myself.
ximmy
23rd September 2011, 11:04 PM
Sparky, thanks for the good advice.
I do have some gold too, all in fractional gold eagles. A bit less than 50% of my stash is gold.
I am looking to spend up to $5k, maybe $7.5k this weekend in silver due to the favorable G/S ratio.
Goldshark.com shows that DBS Coins and Texas Precious Metals have some of the good prices on silver without the large minimums that Tulving has. Anyone ever deal with them?
I see that a lot of vendors carry the Buffalo silver round. Is there any significant difference between having a Buffalo vs. the Sunshine Mint round?
Sorry for all the simpleton questions. I feel like a sponge right now soaking it all in.
I'd pick up 20 ten oz. engelhard bars... check link... always easy to sell at a markup...
10 oz .999 Fine Silver Bar | Engelhard (http://www.providentmetals.com/10-oz-999-fine-silver-bar-engelhard.html)$350.20
http://www.providentmetals.com/bullion/silver/private-slv/10-ozt-999-fine-silver-bar.html
Shami-Amourae
24th September 2011, 12:30 AM
My personal favorite are these buffalo rounds. I've been buying them since 2007:
http://www.providentmetals.com/1-oz-999-silver-round-ntr-buffalo.html
http://www.providentmetals.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/300x/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/f/i/file_183.jpg
http://www.providentmetals.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/50x/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/f/i/file_184.jpg
I think the most important factor is what gives you the most sell/buy return. For example, ximmy's suggestion of 10 t.oz. Engelhard bars is a sell of $317.80, and a buy of $345.20, or a 92.1% sell/buy ratio.
My suggestion (buffalo rounds) has a sell price of $31.13 and a buy price of $32.72, or a 95.1% ratio.
By the way, what I just mentioned is if you buy one of each. If you do the max it's 96.9% for buffalo rounds and 93.4% for Engelhard bars.
I do this with everything to determine what is the best buy. You also have to consider what's popular/in demand, which Engelhard's win in that case, despite the higher premium (you might be able to charge a higher price when selling on E-bay in other words.)
So please consider the sell/buy price ratio. Most people involve a little of what they like, and I don't see the harm in that too to some extent since it brings joy to some people getting their favorite coin/bar.
Most things are particularly sold out this moment at coin dealers. Prices could drop even lower Monday, since many of these market crashes start on Thursday to Friday, and then carry over with the mega crash on Monday that was built up from over the weekend. I really don't know what's going to happen, but you should be better off in a year from now no matter when you buy. Don't try to predict the bottom, you might get burned.
Sparky
24th September 2011, 09:15 AM
I'd pick up 20 ten oz. engelhard bars... check link... always easy to sell at a markup...
10 oz .999 Fine Silver Bar | Engelhard (http://www.providentmetals.com/10-oz-999-fine-silver-bar-engelhard.html)$350.20
http://www.providentmetals.com/bullion/silver/private-slv/10-ozt-999-fine-silver-bar.html
Those are a good purchase, but I wouldn't recommend spending the whole bankroll on one item. As nice as 10-ouncers are to stack, you gotta have plenty of 1-ouncers, and pre-1965 coins to be diversified. A reasonable blend to shoot for is something like this:
10-ounce bars 30%
Pre-1965 coins 30%
1-ounce rounds 30%
1-ounce coins 10%
Also, I think you should hold a minimum of 1/3 gold, even if silver has a bigger price upside.
Joe King
24th September 2011, 10:14 AM
A good reason to consider skipping the 10ozers if you think it will be going up up up.
http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?54458-Uh-oh-France-Bans-Cash-Sales-of-Gold-Silver-over-600
I'm sure stuff like this will occur more and more as the World of fiat continues to crumble away.
After all, those types of regulations are and will be intended to protect and preserve the fiat system that's been created for your benefit. http://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/smilies/smiley_puke.gif
What's that? You say you don't want to play? No way! lol
TomD
24th September 2011, 10:23 AM
I've got lots of generic and love it. Some examples below:
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x229/TomD77/06reverse.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x229/TomD77/10kruetzer.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x229/TomD77/Apmex5ozagbar-1.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x229/TomD77/barsilverJM.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x229/TomD77/EngelhardProspector3.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x229/TomD77/G-Khan-sized.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x229/TomD77/GIMBull4.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x229/TomD77/NWTMbar.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x229/TomD77/ParadiseMint1.jpg
TomD
24th September 2011, 10:24 AM
a few more
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x229/TomD77/NewSouth5ozbar.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x229/TomD77/prospector3.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x229/TomD77/SunshineEagle.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x229/TomD77/Thaller.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x229/TomD77/_DSC1097.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x229/TomD77/JM100gbar.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x229/TomD77/Apmexroundcopy.jpg
Shami-Amourae
24th September 2011, 01:07 PM
TomD, I don't think we allow pornography on this forum.
Sparky
24th September 2011, 05:51 PM
I guess this would be another reason for these to gain popularity. The metal can become the direct currency. One gram of silver is worth about 1 FRN right now:
Sheets of 1 gram precious metal tabs (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?54401-New-G-S-product&p=462087#post462087)
MNeagle
24th September 2011, 06:40 PM
So do you buy online on weekends if you can't find anything local?
1 pawn shop wanted $45/oz silver (Christmas rounds)
another $42/oz, and the actual coin shop was closed when I called (I thought he was open to 9, but that's only weekdays).
solid
24th September 2011, 06:58 PM
So do you buy online on weekends if you can't find anything local?
1 pawn shop wanted $45/oz silver (Christmas rounds)
another $42/oz, and the actual coin shop was closed when I called (I thought he was open to 9, but that's only weekdays).
If I was going to order online...I'd go Apmex. I've always had a great experience with them, online.
Premiums are high, for a lot of silver. However, personally, if I was going to order silver online, I'd pull the plug on these. Libertads are one of my favorite coins. I wish I owned some.
http://www.apmex.com/Product/1114/default.aspx
Joe King
24th September 2011, 07:24 PM
So do you buy online on weekends if you can't find anything local?
1 pawn shop wanted $45/oz silver (Christmas rounds)
another $42/oz, and the actual coin shop was closed when I called (I thought he was open to 9, but that's only weekdays).It's just my opinion, but I'd say forget the pawn shops. All the ones I've ever been in seem like nothin' but a rip-off waiting for my wallet.
Yours strike me as the same.
Oh, and nice pics TomD. One can't go wrong with any of those.
Well, perhaps one of them maybe. :D
bl96S5eu
24th September 2011, 10:58 PM
Kat, Sparky gave some good advice. If you haven't already bought I'd consider his approach as it will get you a good cross section of coins.
TomD
25th September 2011, 09:28 AM
It's just my opinion, but I'd say forget the pawn shops. All the ones I've ever been in seem like nothin' but a rip-off waiting for my wallet.
Yours strike me as the same.
Well, perhaps one of them maybe. :D
Maybe in general but there was (is) a good one in Alpharetta (north Atlanta) that had consistent good inventory and prices. I hit them once a week and bought a ton of stuff from 2005 till I moved away in 2008. It is Cherokee Pawn and Coin, ironically right across the street from the Ferrari Dealership. The guy that ran the coin part considered Kooks, Lunars, Pandas, etc to be just bullion and sold them at the same price (spot + $1) as he did generic. I got a bunch of stuff there.
The only way to keep from getting ripped off in any market is to know enough about it. That's why I hate buying into any non-retail type market that I don't know, I always get screwed until I figure out what is what.
1970 silver art
25th September 2011, 09:39 AM
The only way to keep from getting ripped off in any market is to know enough about it. That's why I hate buying into any non-retail type market that I don't know, I always get screwed until I figure out what is what.
That makes sense to me because dealers and some ebay sellers wll take advantage of a person buy either 1.) over-charging them on something or 2.) selling them something that is not real.
Arming yourself with knowledge and DYODD on a particular part of the gold and silver collector market will prevent a person from getting ripped off.
Joe King
25th September 2011, 09:46 AM
Maybe "ripped off" was a bit strong. To be more clear, I've never known of them paying very close to an items value and everything I see for sale there seems way over priced.
That's not to say a deal can't be had sometimes, but IMHO, those deals are so few and far between that I never waste my time in those places.
...and I thought the prices MnEagle was quoted smacked of highway robbery. Unless those rounds she mentioned had some collectable value, perhaps.
Katmandu
25th September 2011, 07:43 PM
Pulled the trigger tonight at Provident for some 1oz Buffalo Rounds, at 1.80 above spot, with half of my powder. Will likely go for SAEs, Maples or bars, or some other Round, with the other half sometime in the next few days. Thanks for all the great input. I feel like I am a bit more "edjumacated" now.
bl96S5eu
26th September 2011, 02:42 PM
Congrats on the purchase Katmandu and all the best on continued purchases.
jbeck57143
27th September 2011, 11:38 AM
I just saw these Winged Liberty rounds at Westminster Mint:
http://www.coin-rare.com/silver-bullion---winged-liberty-silver-rounds-1-ounce.aspx
Katmandu
27th September 2011, 06:47 PM
I just saw these Winged Liberty rounds at Westminster Mint:
http://www.coin-rare.com/silver-bullion---winged-liberty-silver-rounds-1-ounce.aspx
All of their 1oz generic .999 silver is at about 0.90 above spot; this is quite a nice bargain, no? I am not familiar with this shop, and I wonder if their prices are continuously updated against spot?
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