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View Full Version : Life After An EMP Attack: No Power, No Food, No Transportation, No Banking And No Int



Serpo
24th September 2011, 08:27 PM
Posted by Real News Reporter on September 23rd, 2011
http://www.realnewsreporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/emp-300x203.jpg The American Dream (http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/life-after-an-emp-attack-no-power-no-food-no-transportation-no-banking-and-no-internet)
Most Americans do not know this, but a single EMP attack could potentially wipe out most of the electronics in the United States and instantly send this nation back to the 1800s.
If a nuclear bomb was exploded high enough in the atmosphere over the middle part of the country, the electromagnetic pulse would fry electronic devices from coast to coast. The damage would be millions of times worse than 9/11. Just imagine a world where nobody has power, most cars will not start, the Internet has been fried, the financial system is offline indefinitely, nobody can make any phone calls and virtually all commerce across the entire country is brought to a complete stop. A nation that does not know how to live without technology would be almost entirely stripped of it at that point. Yes, this could really happen.



An EMP attack is America’s “Achilles heel”, and everyone around the world knows it. It is only a matter of time before someone uses an EMP weapon against us, and at this point we are pretty much completely unprepared.
The sad thing is that we are spending hundreds of billions of dollars hunting down “terrorists” in caves on the other side of the globe and we have been told that because of “national security” it is necessary for our private areas to be touched before we are allowed to get on an airplane, but our government is doing essentially nothing to address what is perhaps our biggest security vulnerability.
What would you and your neighbors do if the power went out and it did not ever come back on?
What would you do if an EMP attack happened in the middle of the winter and you suddenly were not able to heat your home any longer?
What would you do if all the electronics in your car got fried and you simply could not drive anywhere?
What would you do if all the supermarkets in your area shut down because food could not be transported across the country anymore?
What would you do if you were suddenly unable to call your family and friends for help?
What would you do if you were suddenly unable to get the medicine that you needed?
What would you do if your debit cards and credit cards simply did not work any longer and you could not get any of your money out of the bank?
What would you do if all of these things happened all at once?
A single EMP attack would be the worst disaster that the United States has ever seen by far.
An electromagnetic pulse could potentially fry the vast majority of all the microchips in the United States. In an instant, nearly all of our electronic devices would be rendered useless.
Yes, the federal government knows all about this. The following excerpt is from an April 2008 report (http://www.scribd.com/doc/11562771/Electromagnetic-Pulse-Attack-A2473-EMP-Commission) by the Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack….
“The consequences of lack of food, heat (or air conditioning), water, waste disposal, medical, police, fire fighting support, and effective civil authority would threaten society itself.”
Most of us have become completely and totally dependent on electricity and technology. Without it, most of us would be in huge trouble.
The following is how an article in the Wall Street Journal (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1190331/posts) described the potential consequences of an EMP attack….
No American would necessarily die in the initial attack, but what comes next is potentially catastrophic. The pulse would wipe out most electronics and telecommunications, including the power grid. Millions could die for want of modern medical care or even of starvation since farmers wouldn’t be able to harvest crops and distributors wouldn’t be able to get food to supermarkets. Commissioner Lowell Wood calls EMP attack a “giant continental time machine” that would move us back more than a century in technology to the late 1800s.
It wouldn’t be so bad if we had the knowledge and the infrastructure to live the way that they did back in the 1800s, but today that is simply not the case.
Dr. William Graham was Ronald Reagan’s science adviser and the chairman of the Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack. Dr. Graham believes that in the event of a large scale EMP attack, the vast majority of Americans would either freeze, starve or die from disease (http://www.newsmax.com/RonaldKessler/emp-electromagneticpulse-William-Graham/2010/04/05/id/354742).
According to Graham (http://www.newsmax.com/RonaldKessler/emp-electromagneticpulse-William-Graham/2010/04/05/id/354742), in the aftermath of an EMP attack life in America “would probably be something that you might imagine life to be like around the late 1800s but with several times the population we had in those days, and without the ability of the country to support and sustain all those people.”
Would you be able to survive?
All of those big bank accounts may never be able to be recovered after an EMP attack. Your money might be instantly fried out of existence.
The following is what Graham believes (http://www.newsmax.com/RonaldKessler/emp-electromagneticpulse-William-Graham/2010/04/05/id/354742) would happen to the financial system in the event of an EMP attack….
“Most financial records are stored electronically. ATMs, which depend upon both power and telecommunications, would not be available; banks, which try to back up records but in general aren’t strongly aware of the EMP problem, would face the problem of unprotected storage and computer systems”
This is the danger of having a financial system that is so dependent on technology. We may wake up one day and find that all the money is gone.
But if an EMP attack actually happened, the biggest concern for most of us would be trying to figure out how to survive.
The president of the Center for Security Policy, Frank Gaffney, is convinced that a single EMP attack could result in the deaths of the vast majority of the population of the United States (http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=149117)….
“Within a year of that attack, nine out of 10 Americans would be dead, because we can’t support a population of the present size in urban centers and the like without electricity”
Are you starting to get a feel for the scope of the problem?
The sad thing is that so much could be done to protect this country from an EMP attack.
Right now, most vital U.S. military infrastructure has at least some protection from an EMP attack.
But the general population has been left completely and totally vulnerable.
It has been estimated that the entire power grid could potentially be protected for about 20 billion dollars (http://www.newsmax.com/RonaldKessler/emp-attack/2009/09/09/id/334894). Considering the fact that we have spent over 400 billion dollars in Afghanistan, I think that we could afford it.
We have spent our national security dollars very, very badly and someday it is going to come back to bite us in the rear end.
Right now, other nations around the world are working feverishly to develop EMP weapons. The following is from a statement by Dr. Peter Vincent Pry to the United States Senate Subcommittee on Terrorism, Technology and Homeland Security on March 8th, 2005 (http://kyl.senate.gov/legis_center/subdocs/030805_pry.pdf)….
Russian and Chinese military scientists in open source writings describe the basic principles of nuclear weapons designed specifically to generate an enhanced-EMP effect, that they term “Super-EMP” weapons. “Super-EMP” weapons, according to these foreign open source writings, can destroy even the best protected U.S. military and civilian electronic systems.
But it is not just Russia and China that have been developing “Super-EMP” weapons. According to Newsmax, it is believed that North Korea may have tested a “Super-EMP” weapon back in 2009 (http://www.newsmax.com/KenTimmerman/super-emp-emp-northkorea-nuke/2011/06/16/id/400260)….
North Korea’s last round of tests, conducted in May 2009, appear to have included a “super-EMP” weapon, capable of emitting enough gamma rays to disable the electric power grid across most of the lower 48 states
Remember, all it would take is one strategically placed EMP attack to wipe out this nation.
But an EMP weapon is not the only danger that can produce this type of effect. The truth is that a really bad geomagnetic storm could also potentially produce almost as much damage (http://www.newsmax.com/RonaldKessler/emp-electromagneticpulse-William-Graham/2010/04/05/id/354742).
This is something that everyone knows is one of our biggest vulnerabilities and it is something that we can make preparations for.
Yet the Bush administration and the Obama administration have just stood there and have done nothing.
Our idiocy is astounding.
General Eugene Habiger, the former head of U. S. Strategic Command, has said the following (http://afteremp.com/) about the possibility of an EMP attack in the future….
“It is not a matter of if, it is a matter of when.”
Remember, this is something that could cause millions times more damage than 9/11 did.
Instead of molesting old ladies at airports and chasing goat herders around the mountains of Afghanistan, perhaps we should be addressing our largest security vulnerabilities.
But that would require using some common sense. Sadly, common sense seems to be in very short supply in Washington D.C. these days.
So if the government is not going to do anything about it, that means that it is up to you to prepare yourself and your family. This world is becoming very unstable and disasters can strike at any time (http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/do-you-now-understand-why-you-need-to-prepare-for-emergencies-this-has-been-the-worst-year-for-natural-disasters-in-u-s-history).
We all saw what happened after Hurricane Katrina. The government response was a nightmare. An EMP attack would be millions of times worse and the federal government probably would not even be able to get you and your family any assistance.
You would truly be on your own.
So are you ready?
This is yet another reason why the number of preppers (http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/if-everything-is-going-to-be-okay-then-why-is-the-number-of-preppers-in-the-united-states-absolutely-exploding) in the United States is exploding. A lot of people can see how the world is changing and they understand that the federal government is not going to come through for them when the chips are down.
An EMP attack could end life as we know it at any time.
It is a glaring security vulnerability and the entire world knows that it is there.
I hope that you are getting ready, because the government certainly is not.
http://www.realnewsreporter.com/?p=8138

keehah
24th September 2011, 09:03 PM
If a nuclear bomb was exploded high enough in the atmosphere over the middle part of the country, the electromagnetic pulse would fry electronic devices from coast to coast.
Bullshit!
From what I recall one needs to be a few km at most from such a device for it to fry most of your unprotected electronics.


The truth is that a really bad geomagnetic storm could also potentially produce almost as much damage.
Bullshit!
A really bad geomagnetic storm could potentially kill all higher life on earth.

Joe King
24th September 2011, 09:20 PM
Bullshit!
From what I recall one needs to be a few km at most from such a device for it to fry most of your unprotected electronics.
I'd be ok with finding out for sure as long as either all of it gets fried or none of it gets fried.



Bullshit!
A really bad geomagnetic storm could potentially kill all higher life on earth.
I don't think he was talking about one being quite that bad. Maybe one like the one in {I think} 1859 {going from memory} or perhaps twice as bad as that one. Maybe thrice, but no bigger.

zap
24th September 2011, 09:26 PM
So if your electronics are not "live" they would not be affected?

MNeagle
24th September 2011, 09:28 PM
If they're electronic, whether "ON" or "OFF", they'll be affected unless they're in a faraday cage (is my understanding).

vacuum
24th September 2011, 09:28 PM
Bullshit!
From what I recall one needs to be a few km at most from such a device for it to fry most of your unprotected electronics.
Thats what I thought too keehah, for years, till I actually read some details on it. Basically, when a nuclear bomb is exploded in the atmosphere, almost all of its energy is released as gamma rays. These gamma rays fly through the atmosphere, until they hit an air molecule and knock some electrons out which have very high energy. Those electrons are then directed toward the earth because of their interaction with the earth's magnetic field.

So in reality, almost all of the nuclear weapon's energy is released in the form of a massive electromagnetic pulse. According to wikipedia, it translates to an EMP energy density on the ground of 6.6 megawatts per square meter.

Maybe you're thinking of a nuke detonated at ground level for the radius of only a few km.

Here are some pictures:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cd/EMP_areas.JPG

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/High_altitude_EMP.gif

zap
24th September 2011, 09:33 PM
Thanks Mn, Can somebody Splan it to me? So my new inverter is sitting in the box, it would never work if an EMP happened?

zap
24th September 2011, 09:44 PM
This is what I found, Actually, electronic components already enjoy some form of shielding against electromagnetic interference. Federal Communications Commission standards require it. Such shielding is designed to prevent everyday electromagnetic radiation from entering and/or exiting the device. Your computer contains this shielding, from metal housings down to the little metal coverings soldered to your motherboard. There even are housings the size of rooms or buildings that protect sensitive equipment inside. Without electromagnetic shielding, many electronic devices would not work properly.

However, most existing shielding may not be enough to protect against an EMP. While US military standards often require electronic components to be protected against an EMP, commercial standards do not. And while our power grid is shielded against things such as lightning strikes, it is not tested for protection against an EMP.

Upgrading to shield against an EMP would entail using more robust shielding materials, especially for the cords, cables, and/or wires that connect devices to external entities such as power supplies or networks. Cables and wires act as antennas through which an EMP travels directly into a device.

To what extent would an EMP destroy electronics in their current configurations? Certainly not 100 percent. Not all electronics are connected to cables or wires. And many of those that are connected may only temporarily be disrupted or not be disrupted at all, thanks to the existing shielding against electromagnetic interference. But an EMP that is powerful enough or close enough could ruin many electronic devices such as computers.

Joe King
24th September 2011, 09:46 PM
Thanks Mn, Can somebody Splan it to me? So my new inverter is sitting in the box, it would never work if an EMP happened?It would do to all your electronics what 440V might do to your 110V incandescent light bulbs.
ie it would "zap" them.

midnight rambler
24th September 2011, 09:52 PM
Thanks Mn, Can somebody Splan it to me? So my new inverter is sitting in the box, it would never work if an EMP happened?

You could protect your uninstalled/unused inverter in a Faraday cage.

If your inverter were installed even a Faraday cage would not protect it as any electrical connections would act as antennas.

zap
24th September 2011, 09:54 PM
Ok M R , my house is metal, red iron, sheet metal studs, metal roof, Does that count?

Joe King
24th September 2011, 09:55 PM
Is it grounded?

zap
24th September 2011, 09:57 PM
Yes.

Joe King
24th September 2011, 10:00 PM
That's good. With all that metal I was afraid of it possibly turning into a giant capacator on you lol.

midnight rambler
24th September 2011, 10:00 PM
Ok M R , my house is metal, red iron, sheet metal studs, metal roof, Does that count?

That helps, but from my understanding your coverage must be 100% (one source suggests taking the rubber gasket out of ammo cans and replacing it with steel or copper wool), therefore windows would allow in the EMP.

I suggest you do a search on www.survivalblog.com for the best info on EMP protection - that's the first place I would look.

zap
24th September 2011, 10:05 PM
That helps, but from my understanding your coverage must be 100% (one source suggests taking the rubber gasket out of ammo cans and replacing it with steel or copper wool), therefore windows would allow in the EMP.

I suggest you do a search on www.survivalblog.com for the best info on EMP protection - that's the first place I would look.

Thanx M R, My doors are metal too, The area where the inverter (both of them) are doesn't have any windows, and metal doors coming and going. So maybe I will take my chances. ;)

solid
24th September 2011, 10:13 PM
Thanx M R, My doors are metal too, The area where the inverter (both of them) are doesn't have any windows, and metal doors coming and going. So maybe I will take my chances. ;)

Zap, sounds like you are in good shape, better than a lot of us. An EMP, I'd be back to compass and dead reckoning, oil lamps for heat and light. My little ol' diesel engine I'd probably get started though.

Out of all the "doom" scenario's, this one is the biggest..imo.

midnight rambler
24th September 2011, 10:16 PM
Out of all the "doom" scenario's, this one is the biggest..imo.

And imo, the most likely.

banjo
24th September 2011, 10:17 PM
What's the criteria for a vehicle being servicable after an EMP?

solid
24th September 2011, 10:19 PM
And imo, the most likely.

Hope you're wrong midnight!

midnight rambler
24th September 2011, 10:20 PM
What's the criteria for a vehicle being servicable after an EMP?

For a gasser, a distributor with points and condenser (a spare condenser will need to be kept in a Faraday cage) OR a magneto, in which SBCs are perfect since those are so common (and the knowledge base is very common as well).

For a diesel, NO electronic controls whatsoever (12 valve Dodge CTDs with standard trannys are perfect).

midnight rambler
24th September 2011, 10:21 PM
Hope you're wrong midnight!

I pray that I'm wrong, but at the rate *we* keep pissing in everyone else's cornflakes I have this really bad feeling. You KNOW that the N. Koreans would love to sucker punch us if they could only get the chance.

Joe King
24th September 2011, 10:22 PM
For a gasser, a distributor with points and condenser (a spare condenser will need to be kept in a Faraday cage).

For a diesel, NO electronic controls whatsoever (12 valve Dodge CTDs with standard trannys are perfect).

Sounds as though there'd be a lotta walkin' goin' on.

solid
24th September 2011, 10:26 PM
I pray that I'm wrong, but at the rate *we* keep pissing in everyone else's cornflakes I have this really bad feeling. You KNOW that the N. Koreans would love to sucker punch us if they could only get the chance.

Yeah. I agree with you here. Lot's of folks out there that would love to piss in our Cherrios about now. I get a bad feeling too, when I think about an EMP. It would be very simple for it to happen. Take us out of the equation for awhile, if not permanently.

This is why we prep, imo.

midnight rambler
24th September 2011, 10:28 PM
Several years ago Popular Science (I think) had an article about how a very crude EMP device could be constructed for a mere $400 sans delivery system - provided one had the tech expertise to construct it. The article did mention that at ground level the device would not have much of a damage radius and the higher the altitude at detonation the greater the damage radius. The example they gave was the device being transported and detonated in a van or truck which would have a very localized effect.

gunDriller
25th September 2011, 06:23 AM
Thanks Mn, Can somebody Splan it to me? So my new inverter is sitting in the box, it would never work if an EMP happened?

it depends on how far you are from the EMP ground zero.

and it depends on how new-fangled your EMP is - how much sensitive electronic circuitry it has.

also it depends on how it's stored - how thorough the shielding is on the Faraday cage you might be using to store prep-ware.


i have a 20 year old inverter that has maybe 10 components. newer inverters that use digital techniques to create the output waveform are more vulnerable. an electric field of 1000 volts per meter that wouldn't create voltages high enough to damage any component in the old inverter, has the ability to fry components with a working voltage of 1.5 volts.

freespirit
25th September 2011, 07:39 AM
Sounds as though there'd be a lotta walkin' goin' on.

horses are not susceptible to EMP's...

;D

JJ.G0ldD0t
25th September 2011, 07:41 AM
http://www.onesecondafter.com/

http://www.amazon.com/One-Second-After-William-Forstchen/dp/product-description/0765356864


Good book.

Joe King
25th September 2011, 07:44 AM
horses are not susceptible to EMP's...

;D

How many people have one of those or a place to keep one? Or that would have the ability to feed and care for it after such an event where most would be doing good just to feed themselves?

Nope, that wouldn't be a viable solution. At least not in the short-term anyways.

Short term answer would be bikes. They'd become like gold in such a scenario as discussed here in this thread.

MNeagle
25th September 2011, 07:52 AM
yup, that's why I won't get rid of this:

http://www.bikekidshop.com/contentimage/2011/08/burley-dlite-trailer-green-side-200x200.jpg

mick silver
25th September 2011, 07:54 AM
do a couple of mules count ... and a old wagon

Joe King
25th September 2011, 07:56 AM
yup, that's why I won't get rid of this:"] ("http://www.bikekidshop.com/contentimage/2011/08/burley-dlite-trailer-green-side-200x200.jpg[/IMG)
Make sure you've got extra tubes/tires for it. Wouldn't want the first good flat to put it out of commission.

BTW, are you used to hauling that thing around loaded?

MNeagle
25th September 2011, 08:00 AM
Not past 100 lbs. Luckily, it's not very hilly around here.

Good point on the extra tires. I don't believe they're tube tires, but we don't have any extras atm.

Bigjon
25th September 2011, 08:37 AM
Remember when all our houses were painted with lead paint?

God how awful, we have to save the children!

I wonder what ever happened to steel siding?

That and a steel roof might be the ticket, not sure about what to do with the windows.

Joe King
25th September 2011, 08:55 AM
Not past 100 lbs. Luckily, it's not very hilly around here.

Good point on the extra tires. I don't believe they're tube tires, but we don't have any extras atm.Don't forget extra chains, and chainrings, cables and housing.
...and lube. Don't forget the lube.

steyr_m
25th September 2011, 09:30 AM
What's the criteria for a vehicle being servicable after an EMP?

I'm going to expound in midnight rambler's post. You want the simplest vehicle you can find. The VW beetle comes to mind. and put the distributor electrical stuff in a faraday cage as he mentioned. As he also mentioned, any diesel with no electronic controls. And/or put your vehicle in an all metal garage. It has to be grounded and no gaps/cracks/windows. The energy from an EMP is full spectrum [like light from the sun] if you can see light in your garage, EMP energy will be getting in too.

Your vehicle can be it's own Faraday cage. All the windows must be blocked with metal [alum. foil might work in a pinch] and the vehicle grounded.....

mightymanx
25th September 2011, 10:12 AM
Thats what I thought too keehah, for years, till I actually read some details on it. Basically, when a nuclear bomb is exploded in the atmosphere, almost all of its energy is released as gamma rays. These gamma rays fly through the atmosphere, until they hit an air molecule and knock some electrons out which have very high energy. Those electrons are then directed toward the earth because of their interaction with the earth's magnetic field.

So in reality, almost all of the nuclear weapon's energy is released in the form of a massive electromagnetic pulse. According to wikipedia, it translates to an EMP energy density on the ground of 6.6 megawatts per square meter.

Maybe you're thinking of a nuke detonated at ground level for the radius of only a few km.

Here are some pictures:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cd/EMP_areas.JPG

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/High_altitude_EMP.gif

You need to detonate inside the atsmophere. The earths atsmophere is a fairly good insulator so you want to detonate it just below its outer limit. If you detonate outside of that there is a shielding effect to some sort..

To do the US in real good 3-5 nukes of 10 kiloton range should do it. They want to be shot at a high angle over the target so the pulse is oblonged for better coverage this is why you want mutiple EMP's shot from different places so the oblonged pulses cover the whole country.

You could do it the cheap and easy way Scud launchers off of containerships like they did in One Second After it is not real expensive to do this you don't need a quality launch vehicle or navigation system for it.

For those more interested I would read One Second After by William R. Forstchen. He put a lot of thought into that book and did his home work.


Bottom line for about 1/4 million bucks 80-90% of this countries population would be dead in about a year.

The official plan of the government is to be an Ostrich they did away with most shielded electronics after the cold war. Hell the new military trucks need electronics to keep the tires inflated and to go into neutral.

Don't fret too bad you will probably die from all the airplanes falling from the sky because an EMP they are going to drop like big shiny aluminum hail stones.

midnight rambler
25th September 2011, 10:44 AM
I'm going to expound in midnight rambler's post. You want the simplest vehicle you can find. The VW beetle comes to mind. and put the distributor electrical stuff in a faraday cage as he mentioned. As he also mentioned, any diesel with no electronic controls. And/or put your vehicle in an all metal garage. It has to be grounded and no gaps/cracks/windows. The energy from an EMP is full spectrum [like light from the sun] if you can see light in your garage, EMP energy will be getting in too.

Your vehicle can be it's own Faraday cage. All the windows must be blocked with metal [alum. foil might work in a pinch] and the vehicle grounded.....

I forgot to mention the original Veedub Beetle, it may be the ultimate survival vehicle - tough, hard to kill. If you happen to do a low speed roll simply roll it back over onto its wheels (if it didn't land that way) and go on your merry way.

A good friend used to be heavily into the old Veedub bugs. He'd hang out by the river with his drinking buddies around a bonfire and one night he got tired of them giving him grief over his love of Veedubs so he started up his bug, placed a rock on the throttle to run it at WOT and then came back to the bonfire. At first they were all getting some good yucks over the destruction of his engine, but after 15-20 minutes (don't recall atm) there was finally a consensus among the group that he needed to go shut that loud motherfucker off as it was getting very annoying.

Uncle Salty
25th September 2011, 12:05 PM
And what...Europe is not vulnerable to the same? Or Japan? Or any other first or second world country? Big deal.

freespirit
25th September 2011, 12:36 PM
How many people have one of those or a place to keep one? Or that would have the ability to feed and care for it after such an event where most would be doing good just to feed themselves?

Nope, that wouldn't be a viable solution. At least not in the short-term anyways.

Short term answer would be bikes. They'd become like gold in such a scenario as discussed here in this thread.

people survived for ages without electricity or electronic gadgetry. sure not everyone is capable of caring for a horse, but prepping goes further than just stacking cans in the pantry. bikes are a good idea for city folks, but i don't think i could use a bike to haul wood out of the bush, or to pull a plow, etc.

not to give you the impression that i own a horse, i don't. however, i have seen what they are capable of doing first hand, and i would rather learn to care for a horse and work/ride it than to pedal a bike.

freespirit
25th September 2011, 12:37 PM
do a couple of mules count ... and a old wagon

they sure do, mick!
;D

Joe King
25th September 2011, 03:35 PM
people survived for ages without electricity or electronic gadgetry. sure not everyone is capable of caring for a horse, but prepping goes further than just stacking cans in the pantry. bikes are a good idea for city folks, but i don't think i could use a bike to haul wood out of the bush, or to pull a plow, etc.I'm not sayin' they could be used for everything, but they would beat the walking most people would be doing in such a situation.



not to give you the impression that i own a horse, i don't. however, i have seen what they are capable of doing first hand, and i would rather learn to care for a horse and work/ride it than to pedal a bike.If you live in the country, sure. But citys aren't set up for large numbers of horses. Where would people who live in apts keep them? Or city neighborhoods where houses are 20' apart? The room that used to be there for horses in the citys 100 years ago no longer exists.
...and if the vast majority of cars are no longer functional, as I said, there would be a lotta walkin' going on. Anf it'd darn near kill most people today to have to walk even 5 miles.

steyr_m
25th September 2011, 03:38 PM
people survived for ages without electricity or electronic gadgetry.

I agree to a point. Some of us are geared to survive with electricity. Where I live, it can get to -45F in the winter. How do I heat my house? Electricity. I'm in the process of finding a wood stove for back up.

freespirit
25th September 2011, 04:38 PM
joe, i think that i should add that in the scenario i envision, the city will be the LAST place you will want to be when a catalytic event such as this occurs. it would be sheer pandemonium! i for one would vacate the city immediately in the most expeditious manner possible (including, but not limited to bicycles, lol). something like this would certainly be the starting gun for TEOTWAWKI. and when they call up northern command to start policing the public under "martial law", and the NWO pigs are stormtroopin' in the streets, they will definitely start in the cities...meanwhile, i'll be in deep cover in the most difficult-to-reconn chunk of forest i can get to!
but hey, that's just me...lol ;D


steyr_m...you are correct, some of us are geared that way, reliant upon electricity, but you are proving my point on prepping by searching for an alternative heating method. :)

IMO, skill acquisition is also a very important aspect of prepping for survival that lots of people overlook. to their detriment...

Joe King
25th September 2011, 04:45 PM
You're assuming that people in the citys actually have somewhere to go that is not only out in the country, but where they can actually survive.

If the hoardes end up heading out to the countryside in search of their survival, they won't survive there any better than they would in the city.

It'll still take a certain number of cheeseburgers to feed a certain number of people. It matters not where you are if there are simply too few cheeseburgers to go around.
....with "cheeseburgers" being a euphemism for the resources it takes to keep 300,000,000+ people alive.

freespirit
25th September 2011, 04:59 PM
that's true, but as far as having a place to go, all i have is a set of coordinates, a map & compass, and my gear...it's not like i have a bunker hidden in the hills, all loaded up and ready to go. lol (but wouldn't that be sweet? lol)

i just think that without power and all the goodies that it affords (like refrigeration, heat, light, communications, etc.) why would you want to stay in a city? at least in the bush (or similar remote environs) you tend to eliminate some of the extracurricular threats like gangs, etc.

lots of people wouldn't stand any better chance regardless of where they bug out to (if at all,) but that is what i mean when i talk about skill acquisition. if people don't know any basic survival skills, they are doomed no matter what. but simply purchasing a couple of the right books will be better than the proverbial "snowball's chance in hell". provided of course that one READS them...lol

Joe King
25th September 2011, 05:09 PM
Most def. One must know how to be able to survive in order to survive.

IMHO, if there ever really is a true SHTF scenario where humanity is reduced to being in complete survival mode, most people won't end up using their own preps, but rather in most cases someone else will.

praetorian
25th September 2011, 05:49 PM
You would have a crash of society, pedal bikes and other manual transportation used other than for escape from the urban areas,are just a big "KILL ME" sign.The little cart for the bike is fine for exit, but trying to function normally?,good luck!

Any engine type regardless of manufacturer that had a breaker ignition AND a carb, will do fine with a distributor change.1st gen Chevy,Ford,Chrysler engines that made it into the present can be retrofitted. IF they have a carb. a TBI chevy or a port fuel Ford engine from 1991 for example, will not operate unless the fuel system is retrofitted as well.that includes a mechanical fuel pump.

Best idea is to have an older vehicle for Bug out purposes anyway,can be fixed on the side of the road much easier than anything made after 1988 (trucks)

an ignition coil and condensor needs to be kept in a Faraday cage, a breaker distributor does not,as the points are just mechanical contacts that would be unaffected.