Help with a wood stove

[big country]

We're in the very beginning stages of looking for a woodstove for our home. I grew up with a woodstove at my parents house, but it appears they do not make them like that anymore which is why I'm coming to you all for help!!

THe one I grew up with was just a sealed steel (maybe iron?) box...a LARGE box with a door, no window or anything on the door. No frills...but it is 30 years old too and I'm sure there are much more efficient options.

I'm looking for a no frills basic but efficient (not cheap) woodstove. It doesn't need a fancy window on the front...whatever is cheaper (seems like they all have windows though) All the ones I seem to be able to find are very fancy, gold plated, soap stone blah blah etc. They seem made to be the centerpeice of the room. Very elaborate. Is there a company that makes a no-frills efficient stove?

I would like a somewhat flat top for backup cooking/water boiling (this is the prep section after all!!) so that means no pot belly stoves.

I know that this will not be a cheap purchase, and I do not want a cheap stove...I'm looking at a one-time lifetime type purchase here.

Also....Catalytic vs non? I know the former is much more efficient but would it be appropriate for low maintenace heating? How long does the catalyzer (??) last? Is this something that needs replacing? Can you cook on the top of a catalyzing stove?

EDIT: Also I should mention I'm looking at heating around 1800sq ft. two story...the stove hookup/chimney is in the basement which is partially above ground and built into a hillside. I'd like to mostly heat the whole house with wood. There is central air/heat there now.

[uncletonoose]

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/NTESearch?storeId=6970&N=0&Ntk=All&Ntt=vogelzang+bx42e&Nty=1&D=vogelzang+bx42e&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&cmnosearch=PPC&cm_ven=google_PPC&cm_cat=NT_ModelNumber&cm_pla=generic&cm_ite=vogelzang%20bx42e&mkwid=saiR6pBsR&pcrid=8010057071&mt=b

[palani]

Rocket mass. Save a tree (or even a forest).

http://www.richsoil.com/images/rocket_stove_butt_warmer_4.gif

[keehah]

I've had this on my list for a few years: Jøtul F 118 CB Black Bear (http://www.jotul.com/en-US/wwwjotulus/Main-menu/Products/Wood/Wood-stoves/Jotul-F-118-CB-Black-Bear/) 'At least 75% thermal efficiency rating', 'Maximum heat output: 60,000 BTU/hr'


Although an efficient stove with an oven, not too large or kitschky (like what I have seen so far) would interest me if anyone knows what I might be looking for.

[zap]

You might want to look in the for sale ads in your local paper, then you can always look into direct venting adapters, I have a Lopi with the window and fan, but we have went thru 4 woodstoves the last one was a Fisher, I looked it up online and they don't even sell Fishers anymore.

[ArgenteumTelum]

I just retired a Vermont Casting Defiant Encore after 20 years of service. It was in need of a rebuild which was too costly and we built an addition, thus requiring a larger stove. After much research, I decided to stay with this brand and purchased a Defiant 2-in-1. Also, I found a vendor who had a grand re-opening sale and the price during the sale was very attractive. VC has the only EPA certified stove in non-cat mode..either way..very efficient. VC also makes the iron casting for several prominent brands.

Both of these operate either non-cat or cat. Cat will offer longer burn times, but for longest life of the cat converter one must use good seasoned wood. Yes, you can cook on it. We have also purchased a stove top oven made by Amish folk and it will get used for the first time soon enough.

There is a good wood stove forum out there---check for it. Hope this helps....

[hoarder]

Old stoves generally did not have fire bricks and thus made more smoke and less heat. Most of the newer airtight fire brick lined woodstoves are good. Welded steel generally lasts longer and is more airtight than cast iron. Ash drawers are overrated.

My stove is Pacific Energy Spectrum Classic and made in Canada. You can get them without all the pretty stuff for a lot less. I bought mine used.

I burn 3 1/2 cords of pine a year and have no other heat source.

[big country]

You might want to look in the for sale ads in your local paper, then you can always look into direct venting adapters, I have a Lopi with the window and fan, but we have went thru 4 woodstoves the last one was a Fisher, I looked it up online and they don't even sell Fishers anymore.

How do you "go through" woodstoves? The one my parents have had is 30 years old and still they heat their entire house with it. Are they not capable of lasting that long anymore? Has the higher efficiency made the life expectancy go down?

[big country]

I've had this on my list for a few years: Jøtul F 118 CB Black Bear (http://www.jotul.com/en-US/wwwjotulus/Main-menu/Products/Wood/Wood-stoves/Jotul-F-118-CB-Black-Bear/) 'At least 75% thermal efficiency rating', 'Maximum heat output: 60,000 BTU/hr'


Although an efficient stove with an oven, not too large or kitschky (like what I have seen so far) would interest me if anyone knows what I might be looking for.

I did find this stove in my search.
http://www.lehmans.com/store/Stoves___Heat_Stoves___Baker_s_Oven_Wood_Heat_Cook _Stove___17120600?Args=

[zap]

How do you "go through" woodstoves? The one my parents have had is 30 years old and still they heat their entire house with it. Are they not capable of lasting that long anymore? Has the higher efficiency made the life expectancy go down?

We lived in a trailer house and only had a regular wood cook stove tiny firebox 6x6? he was always trying to get something better with the limited cash we had, then a regular stove had 2 doors and let alot of smoke in the trailer when you put wood in, then a pot belly? kinda like a barrel, better (but still saw my breath in the am) then the Fisher lots better with fire brick.... then we built the new house with central heating , but had to run the generator to run the system.

Then the Lopi which is what I use now with the built in blower it works good , but he also decieded to put the Magic heat in the fluepipe...heats a 3000 sq ft house nicely !
www.amazon.com/Magic-Heat-Reclaimer-Wood-Stove/dp/B0000AXEXB

[hoarder]

How do you "go through" woodstoves? The one my parents have had is 30 years old and still they heat their entire house with it. Are they not capable of lasting that long anymore? Has the higher efficiency made the life expectancy go down?A piece of metal that never reaches more than 400 degrees should last longer than one that gets every last possible BTU out of a cord of wood. Do you want smoke or heat?

[skid]

I have the largest stove Regency makes. I have to change the firebricks every third year, but the stove works well and heats my 3 story 3000+ sq ft home (approx 1200 sq ft/level including basement where the stove is located. I burn 5 - 6 cords of hardwood per year. The fire will last over night so you can restart with the coals in the morning

I had the largest Vermont castings stove in my previous home. Great stove as well and probably the prettiest stove out there.

[zap]

A piece of metal that never reaches more than 400 degrees should last longer than one that gets every last possible BTU out of a cord of wood. Do you want smoke or heat?

I don't know how to take this post, I want every BTU of of my cord, I burn a cord or less during the winter, and it gets cold in this canyon, down to 23 sometimes and It did snow here twice last year.


Edit why let the heat leave thru the flue, use it.

[keehah]

I don't know how to take this post...
I took it as being about stove (not stove pipe). Think car engines. A four cylinder engine at 3,000 rpm is more efficient (and with less pollution) than a V8 engine near idling along.
And Skid is in the Northern Mountains with a big house and needs to rev up a V8.

[hoarder]

Edit why let the heat leave thru the flue, use it.This is exactly what I believed at first. I thought the object was to dissipate heat. In actuality, burn temperatures are much more important. Because of the higher burn temps, the outside of the wood stove is hotter with bricks than without. I know it doesn't sound right and it took me a long time to acknowledge this.

Ever notice how 2 logs burn better than one? It's because the heat from one log bounces off the other. Without fire bricks, heat goes out through the sides before it gets hot enough to burn all the energy that's in the wood. Most of the energy goes out the pipe in the form of smoke. With fire bricks, the heat bounces back and forth and raises temps.

[zap]

I am thick hoarder, This stove has fire bricks, The magic heat thinamajig has a blower on it which distributes the heat throughout the house, that is one of the main reasons we have it.

[Joe King]

Edit why let the heat leave thru the flue, use it.

This is exactly what I believed at first. I thought the object was to dissipate heat. In actuality, burn temperatures are much more important. Because of the higher burn temps, the outside of the wood stove is hotter with bricks than without. I know it doesn't sound right and it took me a long time to acknowledge this.I understand what you're sayin' hoarder, but why wouldn't you want both?
Zap's got it goin' on, it sounds like to me.

Seems to me that a magic heat combined with the type of stove you are describing would be the best of both Worlds.
If it were me, I'd have at least one magic heat on a stove like yours.

[Mouse]

I had to replace a Vermont Resolute stove last year, due to no parts available to rebuild it and to get a bit more heat. I researched the hell out of the purchase and went with a Napoleon 1400C which is a nice looking cast design with a cooktop. So far have been very happy with it. There are better stoves out there, but they get spendy very quickly, especially if you start going for fashion models. The Napoleon was a very good value - it's non catalytic but still very efficient. Cat stoves I wanted to avoid as the cats tend to need replacing and are finicky if you ever get stuck with less than premium aged wood you can cause damage to them. My house is about 2200 ft, not the best insulated and I am in the midwest where it does get cold. We have gotten through temps below zero without using the central heat (but then you have to worry about the plumbing freezing).

Decent stoves - they have a econo line that don't look bad http://www.napoleonfireplaces.com/Stoves/stoves_wood/1400.html for your house that should work fine. I didn't go for the blower because the dealer said it wouldn't be needed. I might install one but I just run a box fan aimed from the cooler room towards the room where the stove is on the floor. It works just fine.

You didn't mention what size or type of chimney you have. I am making the vast assumption that you have already in place a proper double or triple insulated chimney. They are pretty expensive. I wouldn't try to burn a stove with a pipe shoved up a masonry chimney if you value your family and house.

I would also stay away from any "Magic" things that you see on tevee or Amazon, regardless their intended function. A chimney needs to run at a hot enough temp both to induce draft and to prevent creosote from building up and causing chimney fires. Magic thingies could result in chimney fires.

Best site I have found for figuring all this out: http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/

[big country]

I had to replace a Vermont Resolute stove last year, due to no parts available to rebuild it and to get a bit more heat. I researched the hell out of the purchase and went with a Napoleon 1400C which is a nice looking cast design with a cooktop. So far have been very happy with it. There are better stoves out there, but they get spendy very quickly, especially if you start going for fashion models. The Napoleon was a very good value - it's non catalytic but still very efficient. Cat stoves I wanted to avoid as the cats tend to need replacing and are finicky if you ever get stuck with less than premium aged wood you can cause damage to them. My house is about 2200 ft, not the best insulated and I am in the midwest where it does get cold. We have gotten through temps below zero without using the central heat (but then you have to worry about the plumbing freezing).

Decent stoves - they have a econo line that don't look bad http://www.napoleonfireplaces.com/Stoves/stoves_wood/1400.html for your house that should work fine. I didn't go for the blower because the dealer said it wouldn't be needed. I might install one but I just run a box fan aimed from the cooler room towards the room where the stove is on the floor. It works just fine.

You didn't mention what size or type of chimney you have. I am making the vast assumption that you have already in place a proper double or triple insulated chimney. They are pretty expensive. I wouldn't try to burn a stove with a pipe shoved up a masonry chimney if you value your family and house.

I would also stay away from any "Magic" things that you see on tevee or Amazon, regardless their intended function. A chimney needs to run at a hot enough temp both to induce draft and to prevent creosote from building up and causing chimney fires. Magic thingies could result in chimney fires.

Best site I have found for figuring all this out: http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/

Honestly I'm not sure what type of chimney it is. We close next week and it is something I will need to investigate. My gut (and what I saw from a few walkthroughs) is that it is a block chminey with a ceramic liner (that is what I can see). On the inside it looks like the hook up is a double wall pipe. I'm not sure what is in the chimney outside the house and up the chimney.

I was a little surprised that there was no cleanout for the chimney though, My parents chimney has a clean out and it was a yearly fall chore to scrub the chimney with a sweep (one person on the roof, the other on the ground pulling a sweep on a string). According to the home inspector "people don't do that anymore with modern fireplaces" so I dunno what that is about?

EDIT: In response to hoarder I would rather have a stove that lasts 30+ years and is less efficient then one that only lasts 10 but eeks a bit more BTUs out of the wood. At the cost most of these stoves are running I expect a long life product. I would rather split more wood knowing my stove is going to last vs splitting less and replacing it more frequently.

[Mouse]

People still clean their chimneys out. It is strongly recommended. The biggest worry with wood heating is the chimney fire. I can't say from your description, but it sounds like you have a masonry chimney (usually 8" square), where someone ran a liner. You need to research whether or not the liner is appropriate but I am guessing that it will not be an issue if in good condition. Many people run insert stoves and they run a liner up the existing masonry chimney and it is just as safe as a class A chimney. DYODD.

I have a nice roasty fire going right now - I am sampling from aged and not as aged woods to determine which ones to use first this year and which ones to let dry some more. I think its like 45 outside. Wood heat is awesome, but it does require safety practices and lots of splitting and stacking :)

Best luck with new house.

[hoarder]

In response to hoarder I would rather have a stove that lasts 30+ years and is less efficient then one that only lasts 10 but eeks a bit more BTUs out of the wood. At the cost most of these stoves are running I expect a long life product. I would rather split more wood knowing my stove is going to last vs splitting less and replacing it more frequently.

Suit yourself but remember that inefficient stoves deposit more creosote.

[big country]

how would one clean out their chimney if there is no clean out at the bottom? The home inspector didn't seem to think that was a big deal...I'm not so sure.

[zap]

Don't they do it from the top like a chimney sweep, the run a brush thru the top and down?

[big country]

doesn't that just make all the creosote pile up in the bottom of the chimeny though? how would you clean it out from there? Or do you just leave it all piling up down there? Do they run a vaccum hose down the chimney to suck it all up or something?

[zap]

Maybe I am not under understanding you, It goes down the same hole as the smioke goes up.

[big country]

correct, but if you run a brush down the chimney from the top, all the creosote that it knocks loose is going to fall to the bottom of the chimney instead of coming back up with the brush. Are you saying that it will fall into the fireplace/stove? My chimney isn't a straight pipe into the stove. The chimeny is on the outside of the house on a wall and the stove would hook into it through an offset. Am I wrong in assuming that the stove is hooked into the chimney with a T pipe? (that is how it hooks in when there is an external clean-out at the base of the chimney...so I assumed that is how they all hooked in). I guess it wouldn't make sense to have the T pipe as the creosote that falls would infact just fill the bottom of the chimney instead of falling into the stove.

Does it make more sense now? I think we have it figured out!

[zap]

LOL , yes I think we do ! So get a proffessional chimney sweep out there and I am sure he can get it cleaned out, maybe he has a big vaccum !

So you have an insert, not a standard fireplace?

[big country]

none of those. It is a chminey on the outside of the house that runs all the way above the roof. The only thing INSIDE the house is a 8" (maybe 6" I didn't measure...from memory) pipe that comes through the wall about 4-5' off the floor. This would be a hookup for a wood furnace/stove. Not a fireplace or insert. I don't know the correct terms, hopefully I am explaining it correctly.

The stove will sit on the floor, in the room and there will need to be an elbow (90deg or 2x45s) to get a pipe from the top of the stove into the chimney.

I also do not have a stove yet as that was the original point of this topic, but so far it has been very helpful! even if somewhat off topic!

[Mouse]

1214
none of those. It is a chminey on the outside of the house that runs all the way above the roof. The only thing INSIDE the house is a 8" (maybe 6" I didn't measure...from memory) pipe that comes through the wall about 4-5' off the floor. This would be a hookup for a wood furnace/stove. Not a fireplace or insert. I don't know the correct terms, hopefully I am explaining it correctly.

The stove will sit on the floor, in the room and there will need to be an elbow (90deg or 2x45s) to get a pipe from the top of the stove into the chimney.

I also do not have a stove yet as that was the original point of this topic, but so far it has been very helpful! even if somewhat off topic!

Based on your description, the chimney stack on the outside of the house with a tee running to it, is very similar to what I have (mine passes through a wall but it's still inside the house where the stack goes up). There should be an access at the bottom of the stack at the tee where you sweep from the bottom up, and probably never have to get on the roof. Then you clean out the horizontal pipe through the wall (thimble) and take off the 90 stove pipe and clean it out. See attached pic.

[MNeagle]

http://gold-silver.us/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1214&d=1317694657

[hoarder]

When I run a brush through my chimney, it piles up creosote on top of the upper fire bricks, effectively clogging the flue. I simply lift and move the middle upper brick aside and clean it out.

[BabushkaLady]

I know that this will not be a cheap purchase, and I do not want a cheap stove...I'm looking at a one-time lifetime type purchase here.

Also....Catalytic vs non? I know the former is much more efficient but would it be appropriate for low maintenace heating? How long does the catalyzer (??) last? Is this something that needs replacing? Can you cook on the top of a catalyzing stove?

I guess each region has their favorite stove . . . I love my BlazeKing, it came with the place. It has a catalytic combustor that can be removed and cleaned. The chimney sweep said they rarely need replacing.

I generally only heat water for moisture in the air, but I don't know why you couldn't cook with the combustor installed . . .

https://www.blazeking.com/

Good luck with the new house!!

[skid]

In regards to cleaning a stove with no cleanout, the sweep will pull the stove away from the wall and disconnect the pipe attached to the stove. He will then sweep the chimney from the top, and then vacuum out the creosote from the bottom where the (disconnected) stove pipe goes into the wall.

That's how my stove is done every year. My insurance requires me to get a certified sweep to clean my chimney and provide a condition report on my entire system.

Good preppers will have their own sweeping tools in the event of the SHTF (I do and they are relatively inexpensive))...

[big country]

Thanks all, The picture is exactly the setup I have, the only thing is I'm not sure if there is a T-pipe (I assumed so) at the chimeny or if it is an elbow. I assumed it was a T-pipe and there is no cleanout. It is a masonry (cinder block) chimney not just multi-wall pipe. If my insurance doesn't require a pro sweep I will most certainly get the tools and do it myself.

This stove is going to be a primary heat source, but I will keep my Natural Gas central air as a backup (with the thermostat set somewhere around 60) incase the woodstove cannot keep up. I don't think I will be able to do it this winter (NG heat only this winter) but next spring I'm hoping to make the purchase in the off season.

I asked about cooking as an extreme backup for SHTF type situations. This is the preparedness section after all. I like my tools to have multiple uses.

Thanks for the blazeking suggestion too, I looked around a bit to see what dealers I could find in my area and I found Englander, Buck, and Napoleon. I need to find our phonebook to see if I can find dealers that do not have a web presence in my area. Options are limited around here unfortuately (unless I want to travel 1hr+)

[Mouse]

I just cleaned mine out today and I must be doing something right, as it was all just light fly ash and really no creosote to say. If yours does not have a cleanout at the bottom, then its a top down jobby and you will need to vacuum out like hoarder said. I still had to vacuum up plenty of mess. Going to do MIL's chimney in the next couple days, but hers should be easier than ours. Around here they charge about 125 per chimney to clean em out. I would pay it if I had to get on the roof (steep roof). I would want to find out if the entire chimney is lined or not. As for cooking, it will take you a long time to get most things done. I have had two stoves that both had stove top cookers and it's not nearly as hot as a cooking appliance. Figure it will take you about 1/2 hour to make your coffee. You aren't going to get more than 600-700 degrees on your stove top unless you are really pushing it - which is also bad for your stove........

Read up on that site. It took us a couple years to get fully into the swing of this. If you have access to wood and the time and tools to get it, it's a great investment. Either way, it's a good idea to have a stove and a cord or two lying around even if you are using the central heat. All that needs to happen is an ice storm and you will need that stove and wood.

[hoarder]

The difference between a "woodstove" and a "cookstove" is that a cookstove has a removable round panel on top on which you place your pot so the flame hits it directly. The only cooking I do on my woodstove is "slow cooking" in a dutch oven or placing foil-covered taters inside.

[WilliamLau]

I bought one of these from ChimneyHeaters.com . I installed and it works fine. Heats my 2000 square foot house. I have the pump connected to a UPS but I am not sure how long the pump will run if the electric goes out. I had it installed all winter and did not have to turn on my Electric heat once which saved me about 200 euro a month here in Romania.

The Electric is not stable here so I had to rush to take out the fire a couple of times because the water pump had stopped and the pressure valves were going off. The UPS will solve that but I dont know how long a UPS will keep my central pump going. I will attach a pic of what chimney heaters are in case you are not familiar with them. The pump is a Grundfos and has three speeds.

[big country]

Holy crap, I forgot all about this thread!
I still haven't gotten a woodstove yet incase anyone is interested. Not sure it will happen this year either, too many other house expenses to save for the woodstove. :(

the NG heat worked well this past winter, though it was very mild, I'm still planning on installing a woodstove -- just unsure about the timing at this point...

[freespirit]

Holy crap, I forgot all about this thread!
I still haven't gotten a woodstove yet incase anyone is interested. Not sure it will happen this year either, too many other house expenses to save for the woodstove. :(

the NG heat worked well this past winter, though it was very mild, I'm still planning on installing a woodstove -- just unsure about the timing at this point...

you could always save yourself some frn's by checking ad sights like kijijii (sp?) lots of times when people upgrade their stoves, they will sell the older one. and by older one, i don't mean like from the 50's or something, lol...

you may just find a nice one that's maybe like 5 yrs old that's in great shape, for a lot less than retail.