Get your 100W light bulbs now/before Jan. 1

[MNeagle]

Just a reminder, stock up on your 100w light bulbs while they're on the shelves. Nation-wide ban on them starts Jan. 1, 2012.

http://www.google.com/search?q=100w+light+bulb+ban&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1

[BabushkaLady]

I lost count on how many I have!! They are moving off the shelves fast already . . .

[MNeagle]

Yes, they are clearing out. I've bought them willy-nilly as they've been on sale this year, if I can get 4/$1 I'm happy. However, I haven't 'tested' these to see if they last.

But, I am going to make a renewed effort to stack some more, as I doubt I have more than 30 100W.

Hey, they'd make great Christmas gifts in the coming years, no?

[big country]

I was going to jump on the "stock up" wagon, but I decided that I am switching everything to the curly's and soon to LEDs once they come down to the $10 range. I plan on eventually being off the grid and inefficient incandescents just don't do it for me. I figure I need to get used to the lower wattage bulbs now so it won't be a hard transition when we go to solar and wind. It is MUCH easier and CHEAPer to cut your usage then to generate more power with solar. I can't afford an $60k solar system so I'm cutting our usage across the board. We've been cutting usage across the board, curly bulbs, more efficient new Energystar appliances (fridge and deep freeze)...it is making a noticeable difference in our bill...and will be great for the transition as we are getting used to it now.

I guess that means more for you guys as I won't be partaking! While you're tied to a grid and electric is somewhat cheap I suppose it doesn't matter all that much. Good luck on your stocking endeavor! You might see if a store will special order you a bulk order...might be easier then trying to grab them from the shelves.

[MNeagle]

I'm, as others report, unhappy with the curlies & its affect on me. I'm glad you don't.

[Joe King]

Hey, they'd make great Christmas gifts in the coming years, no?

The only problem is that in coming years these (http://www.buylightfixtures.com/72-watt-halogen-light-bulbs.aspx) will be just as cheap as the 100w lights that are being sold now, and they'll use 1/4 less electric while producing the same light.

Personally, I feel that this scare over lightbulbs is being pushed by the lighting industry itself in order to make sure all existing stocks of the old bulbs are sold before the phase-out date.

[big country]

I'm, as others report, unhappy with the curlies & its affect on me. I'm glad you don't.

Do you have problems with the Halogen lights that are the same form factor? I use the Halogen (same form factor as a standard bulb) in all of my outside lighting and I am VERY pleased with their life and light.

(Same bulbs that Joe King linked in his post)

One interesting thing about the Halogen bulbs is the thinkness of the glass on the inclosure. I don't know why, but the ones I have must be 5x as thick as a normal bulb. They feel about the same thinkness as a pint beer glass. Not sure why they are like that but you can feel that you have something substansial in your hand. Because of that I don't know if they will be as cheap as standard bulbs, but they are a good alternative!

[SLV^GLD]

There are a couple reasons why halogen glass is so thick. You have to understand why halogen gases are used to begin with.

Tungsten evaporates and collects on the inside walls of a typical incandescent. Eventually the filament is reduced to the point it breaks. Halogen gases reverse this process. However, higher temperatures are required to catalyze this reaction. Higher temperatures equals faster evaporation means more gas needed means higher fill pressure. Higher fill pressures and higher temperatures require thicker glass to contain the pressure and withstand the temperature fluctuations. Higher temperatures present a threat in terms of fire and melting. Additionally, finger oils can and will penetrate the glass, weaken it and cause it to fail catastrophically.

Halogen lighting can be more efficient than traditional vacuum incandescent lighting but not without significant tradeoffs that must be considered. Glass adds cost and weight. Halogen gases add cost. Higher temperatures and handling precautions present safety concerns.

[madfranks]

I bought a case of 100W bulbs at the dollar store a couple weeks ago and told the checker I was stocking up for when they're illegal. She had no idea what I was talking about and when I told her that at the end of the year 100W light bulbs were going to be made illegal, she was shocked.

[keehah]

The only problem is that in coming years these (http://www.buylightfixtures.com/72-watt-halogen-light-bulbs.aspx) will be just as cheap as the 100w lights that are being sold now, and they'll use 1/4 less electric while producing the same light.

Personally, I feel that this scare over lightbulbs is being pushed by the lighting industry itself in order to make sure all existing stocks of the old bulbs are sold before the phase-out date.

[Edit - I am mistakenly reffering to the regular tungsten lights, not the tungsten halogen lamp Joe links]
What propaganda. 'Time' will not make a long narrow multiple curves twisted around on itself higher surface area glass tube the same price as a same volume bulb of glass. Needing a transformer will never be as cheap as not needing a transformer.

And when used in typicall residential use when often turned on and off, the bulbs do not last long at all, transformer failure and increased sputtering clouding the glass during warmups.

Time will not change the radiation bands of argon and mercury (significantly).

Even the MSM reporters themselves usually don't directly self pimp such thoughts, they just write the words of the industry salesmen who's push the propaganda.

Then there is the EM radiation, 60 Hz visible, EM, and sound flickering health effects. Then mercury contamination. Then poor light quality.

Then the loss of very efficent space heaters. Then loss of American jobs as American factors actually could compete with the less complicated glass requirements making the old bulbs.

September to June I'm using electric heat. Such bulbs are perfect light-heat combos.

But I'd guess we could save some power if the government banned video games. Or TV's. Who needs a motor boat? Or a V8 engine? Or a car? It is much more efficient if we ban all cars. Eventually public transportation would be so efficient using 1/4 the gas. People who need cars for work or to function properly at all will finially learn to be as efficient as the rest of us who don't drive (or work). Its only because of those evil oil companies that we still have our own cars at all.

A car is not the best analogy, because the alternative is more healthy, unlike the less healthy mandated bulbs. I guess the car banners would also ban walking and biking, spun as if cars were banned, more walking and biking would get in the way of, and make less efficent, the 'alternative' government transportations systems.

And one more thing, regarding: "Personally, I feel that this scare over lightbulbs is being pushed by the lighting industry itself in order to make sure all existing stocks of the old bulbs are sold before the phase-out date." These bulbs have already banned by Bilderberger Gordo in my area. The large corporate entities like London Drugs, WalMart and Home Depot did not stock extra bulbs when there was the predictable run on bulbs. Thus they ran out of such bulbs weeks before the ban. The large corporate chains did not want us to stock up.

[Dogman]

To add to the above posts, the cf type bulbs have a hell of a time igniting in cold weather, not worth a shit outside.

[MNeagle]

I recall seeing stories about bulb replacements in traffic lights. The old ones' heat would melt snow & the lights would stay visible. The new ones did not melt the snow & were the cause of many issues w/ visibility.

[keehah]

Not only do the bulbs have low initial light quality, but it quickly degrades. New fluorescent lights do not light like used ones. In the corporate chain environment, when one of these new bulbs go, all the other bulbs in the room often get replaced at the same time so the lighting looks uniform.

I still use both types of bulb. The old ones in things like closet and outdoor lights that are turned off and on often, or the lights right beside me when in areas I spend most of my time.

[madfranks]

How many light bulbs does the average house break in a year? One, two, maybe three? At least with the old bulbs all you have to clean up is broken glass, with the "green" CFL bulbs you have to clean up broken glass plus the highly toxic mercury dust. Have you seen the EPA guidelines for cleaning up a broken CFL bulb? You have to turn off your HVAC system, open all the windows in your house, evacuate for an hour, come back, put on a breathing mask, and with tape, try to pick up as much of the dust as you can, seal it in a jar and take to a hazardous waste disposal site. Vacuuming will cause the toxic dust to spread, as will sweeping. The EPA says that if the dust lands on your shoes, throw your shoes away; if it lands on your clothes, throw your clothes away; if it lands on your bedding, throw your bedding away; because if you try to wash any of it, all you're doing is spreading the highly toxic mercury powder. Green my ass!

I've got kids at home and a few weeks ago they broke a ceiling mounted light by being kids and throwing a toy around. The last thing I want is for my kids to break a CFL bulb on the ceiling and as they look up they're being showered with toxic mercury dust. I'm stocking up on as many cases of the tried and true bulbs as I can!

[MNeagle]

Excellent point, thank you!

[big country]

How many light bulbs does the average house break in a year? One, two, maybe three? At least with the old bulbs all you have to clean up is broken glass, with the "green" CFL bulbs you have to clean up broken glass plus the highly toxic mercury dust. Have you seen the EPA guidelines for cleaning up a broken CFL bulb? You have to turn off your HVAC system, open all the windows in your house, evacuate for an hour, come back, put on a breathing mask, and with tape, try to pick up as much of the dust as you can, seal it in a jar and take to a hazardous waste disposal site. Vacuuming will cause the toxic dust to spread, as will sweeping. The EPA says that if the dust lands on your shoes, throw your shoes away; if it lands on your clothes, throw your clothes away; if it lands on your bedding, throw your bedding away; because if you try to wash any of it, all you're doing is spreading the highly toxic mercury powder. Green my ass!

I've got kids at home and a few weeks ago they broke a ceiling mounted light by being kids and throwing a toy around. The last thing I want is for my kids to break a CFL bulb on the ceiling and as they look up they're being showered with toxic mercury dust. I'm stocking up on as many cases of the tried and true bulbs as I can!

I'm not trying to be a jerk or poo poo all over traditional light bulbs...but your post is a little off.

Here are the actual guidelines for all interested:
http://www.epa.gov/cfl/cflcleanup.html

Leave the room for 5 minutes...not 1 hour
No mention of a breathing mask, but probably not a bad idea.
recycling is a state law in some cases...EPA says just throw it away.
It does say to turn off the HVAC for a bit though so I will agree it is more involved then a traditional bulb
It also doesn't say you need to throw your stuff away

Also keep in mind that one of these bulbs has 1/100th the mercury as a mecury thermometer...though the difference is the thermometer probably doesn't vaporize it like the bulb does.

[ximmy]

I was going to jump on the "stock up" wagon, but I decided that I am switching everything to the curly's and soon to LEDs once they come down to the $10 range. I plan on eventually being off the grid and inefficient incandescents just don't do it for me. I figure I need to get used to the lower wattage bulbs now so it won't be a hard transition when we go to solar and wind. It is MUCH easier and CHEAPer to cut your usage then to generate more power with solar. I can't afford an $60k solar system so I'm cutting our usage across the board. We've been cutting usage across the board, curly bulbs, more efficient new Energystar appliances (fridge and deep freeze)...it is making a noticeable difference in our bill...and will be great for the transition as we are getting used to it now.

I guess that means more for you guys as I won't be partaking! While you're tied to a grid and electric is somewhat cheap I suppose it doesn't matter all that much. Good luck on your stocking endeavor! You might see if a store will special order you a bulk order...might be easier then trying to grab them from the shelves.


I'm working on getting these too... been watching prices... ;)
These one's are on sale...

EcoSmart A19 8.6-Watt (40W) LED Light Bulb
Model # ECS 19 WW 120 Store SKU # 864680

(82) Write a Review
$9.97 /EA-Each
http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/300/85/85578b77-6e40-4edc-bb16-25ce9c3fbf6e_300.jpg

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202188260/h_d2/ProductDisplay?cm_mmc=CJ-_-552179-_-10505125&langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053&AID=10505125&PID=552179&SID=VG8zNzNnb0JDallBQURDckN3d0FBQU5U&cj=true

[madfranks]

I'm not trying to be a jerk or poo poo all over traditional light bulbs...but your post is a little off.

Here are the actual guidelines for all interested:
http://www.epa.gov/cfl/cflcleanup.html

Leave the room for 5 minutes...not 1 hour
No mention of a breathing mask, but probably not a bad idea.
recycling is a state law in some cases...EPA says just throw it away.
It does say to turn off the HVAC for a bit though so I will agree it is more involved then a traditional bulb
It also doesn't say you need to throw your stuff away

Also keep in mind that one of these bulbs has 1/100th the mercury as a mecury thermometer...though the difference is the thermometer probably doesn't vaporize it like the bulb does.

The original EPA guidelines for CFL bulbs were different than those, they changed them. I have a PDF of the original ones, before the huge CFL craze began, when the CFL bulbs were listed under the EPA's "hazzardous material spills" section of the website. I will try to find it and post it.The new link is probably the result of political pressure to make it look better than it really is.

[keehah]

I expect the protocols to be degraded for the public, but when I had my hazzardous material spills training, breaking such a bulb over carpet would result in replacing (not cleaning) the carpet.

[Joe King]

What propaganda. 'Time' will not make a long narrow multiple curves twisted around on itself higher surface area glass tube the same price as a same volume bulb of glass. Needing a transformer will never be as cheap as not needing a transformer.

And when used in typicall residential use when often turned on and off, the bulbs do not last long at all, transformer failure and increased sputtering clouding the glass during warmups.

Time will not change the radiation bands of argon and mercury (significantly).

Even the MSM reporters themselves usually don't directly self pimp such thoughts, they just write the words of the industry salesmen who's push the propaganda.

Then there is the EM radiation, 60 Hz visible, EM, and sound flickering health effects. Then mercury contamination. Then poor light quality.

Then the loss of very efficent space heaters. Then loss of American jobs as American factors actually could compete with the less complicated glass requirements making the old bulbs.Sure sounds as though you are referring to CFL's and not the one I linked to.




September to June I'm using electric heat. Such bulbs are perfect light-heat combos.I'd actually read somewhere that they can still be sold if packaged as a heater. That'd be pretty cool, huh?



But I'd guess we could save some power if the government banned video games. Or TV's. Who needs a motor boat? Or a V8 engine? Or a car? It is much more efficient if we ban all cars. Eventually public transportation would be so efficient using 1/4 the gas. People who need cars for work or to function properly at all will finially learn to be as efficient as the rest of us who don't drive (or work). Its only because of those evil oil companies that we still have our own cars at all.You make it sound as though they are banning light bulbs in general.
All that is happening is that the effiency is increasing. You'll be getting the same light for 1/4 less energy used.



A car is not the best analogy,You're right, it's not the best analogy.


because the alternative is more healthy, unlike the less healthy mandated bulbs. I guess the car banners would also ban walking and biking, spun as if cars were banned, more walking and biking would get in the way of, and make less efficent, the 'alternative' government transportations systems.Are you for real? Again, you sound as though all light bulbs, along with candles, oil lamps and matches are being phased out.



And one more thing, regarding: "Personally, I feel that this scare over lightbulbs is being pushed by the lighting industry itself in order to make sure all existing stocks of the old bulbs are sold before the phase-out date." These bulbs have already banned by Bilderberger Gordo in my area. The large corporate entities like London Drugs, WalMart and Home Depot did not stock extra bulbs when there was the predictable run on bulbs. Thus they ran out of such bulbs weeks before the ban. The large corporate chains did not want us to stock up.They're still avaliable here. You guys probably just bought up all remaining stocks that were in the country.
As far as them not stocking up in anticipation of a run on them, if I owned a store and a certain product was going to become illegal to sell after a certain date, I would stop ordering them too. If for no other reason than to make sure I didn't get stuck with unsalable product. ie there's no guarentee there would be mass demand for them unless there were some type of sign-up list with a promise to pay attached.
...and you really don't think the industry wouldn't hype this up in order to try to get people to buy all remaining stocks?

[keehah]

You make it sound as though they are banning light bulbs in general.
After this you got distracted and were answering this strawman.
By 'car' I was referring to a particular type of private transportation. Not banning transportation.


You guys probably just bought up all remaining stocks that were in the country.
Most of the smaller stores had some stock till the deadline, and I few thrift stores still sold them months later.

But I am sorry for not checking the link first (noted above).
I do like the tungsten halogen lamp (as per the link) and am using them more now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halogen_lamp

The combination of the halogen gas and the tungsten filament produces a chemical reaction known as a halogen cycle (see below) which increases the lifetime of the filament and prevents darkening of the bulb by redepositing tungsten from the inside of the bulb back onto the filament. Because of this, a halogen lamp can be operated at a higher temperature than a standard gas-filled lamp of similar power and operating life. The higher operating temperature results in light of a higher color temperature. This, in turn, gives it a higher luminous efficacy (10–30 lm/W).

Thing is, are these any better reduce heat 'waste' than the regular tungsten lamp? They run hotter than the normal tungsten lamps. So if a 72 watt haolgen bulb makes as much light as a 100 watt tungsten bulb, but runs hotter, does this save a significant amount of energy over the tungsten bulb (or any)? I don't expect it to. And like the fluorescent bulbs they have more UV radiation, and loose the luminous efficacy advantage over tungsten when significantly dimmed.

I was surprised to find that these were not banned at the same time my area banned tungsten lamps. I have not researched it, but I expect this is an intern step to placate commerical light users, and will also be banned in a later step now that precident has been established to ban established types of lighting (and heating) used mainly by the near lobbyless public at first.

[zap]

I haven't used standard light bulbs since I moved here in 1989 we use the cfl's, and I don't call the (toxic clean up disaster team) if I break one, I don't open the doors or exacuate the house, I usually just just clean it up. :)

I bet the air you breathe in town is just as toxic as a bulb.

[Joe King]

After this you got distracted and were answering this strawman.
By 'car' I was referring to a particular type of private transportation. Not banning transportation.So why did you go on about banning bikes and walking too? Sounded as though you were being all-encompassing.



Most of the smaller stores had some stock till the deadline, and I few thrift stores still sold them months later.Then they were still avaliable for awhile?


But I am sorry for not checking the link first (noted above).Ok. Apology accepted.......just try to do mre better next time, ok? :p



I do like the tungsten halogen lamp (as per the link) and am using them more now.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halogen_lamp.See? They're not so bad, are they? :)





Thing is, are these any better reduce heat 'waste' than the regular tungsten lamp? They run hotter than the normal tungsten lamps. So if a 72 watt haolgen bulb makes as much light as a 100 watt tungsten bulb, but runs hotter, does this save a significant amount of energy over the tungsten bulb (or any)? I don't expect it to. And like the fluorescent bulbs they have more UV radiation, and loose the luminous efficacy advantage over tungsten when significantly dimmed.I've never manufactured light bulbs, so I can't really answer those questions, but it must work somehow. They only use 72 watts and as far as I know are dimmable. You should also be able to measure the output with a light meter. Have you tied doing that in order to get some hard data on the subject?



I was surprised to find that these were not banned at the same time my area banned tungsten lamps.Why would they be? They are the more efficient replacement for the less efficient bulbs you are referring to.


I have not researched it, but I expect this is an intern step to placate commerical light users, and will also be banned in a later step now that precident has been established to ban established types of lighting (and heating) used mainly by the near lobbyless public at first.I suppose that could happen. Perhaps in the future we'll have 50 watt bulbs that output as much light as a current 100 watt bulb. Who knows, but if there is, you'd still want to keep using the old ones that cost more to run?

[keehah]

Why would they be? They are the more efficient replacement for the less efficient bulbs you are referring to.

No. But they are a good relacement. The more electrically effecient commercial bulb for a most basic measure of light production is the compact fluorescent.

The good relacement bulbs you refer to are existing (halogen) tungsten technology no more or no less efficent basically as the tungsten bulbs now being banned. The only difference is they are more widly used in corporate settings.

[madfranks]

All that is happening is that the effiency is increasing. You'll be getting the same light for 1/4 less energy used.

There is much, much more happening than that. Setting aside all the economic implications of having the government subsidize and hide the true cost of what these things are, the type of light is vastly different from a CFL to a traditional incandescent bulb. Incandescent light is comfortable, smooth and easy on the eyes. Fluorescent lights emit dry, blast white, sterile light that constantly flickers. To the trained eye, there is a major difference.

[Joe King]

No. But they are a good relacement. The more electrically effecient commercial bulb for a most basic measure of light production is the compact fluorescent.CFLs are a different type of light buld. The context of this thread is of the type being phased out.
ie the new 72 watt bulbs are the successors to the 100 watt bulb.



The good relacement bulbs you refer to are existing (halogen) tungsten technology no more or no less efficent basically as the tungsten bulbs now being banned. The only difference is they are more widly used in corporate settings.The replacement bulbs I was referring to in the link I posted are new. There havn't been those type of bulbs before.

[Joe King]

There is much, much more happening than that. Setting aside all the economic implications of having the government subsidize and hide the true cost of what these things are, the type of light is vastly different from a CFL to a traditional incandescent bulb. Incandescent light is comfortable, smooth and easy on the eyes. Fluorescent lights emit dry, blast white, sterile light that constantly flickers. To the trained eye, there is a major difference.Where did I ever mention CFLs as being the bulb using 1/4 less energy?

I have only referred to the new 72 watt incandescents that output as much light as the old 100 watt bulbs being phased out.