Milk prep

[Sparky]

I'm looking for a storable milk alternative as a prep. I have prepped cold cereal and chewy granola bars, both of which I really like, but they won't be much of a prep without milk.

I bought some powdered lo-fat milk a while back; it didn't taste very good at all. Is "evaporated milk" better? Condensed milk? Are these preferable to milk "alternatives", which aren't really milk at all? I heard some of these taste good (Morning Moos has a good reputation), but don't have the nutrients of milk. But since I'm mostly looking for something that tastes good on cereal or cold from a glass, maybe I'll look to get those nutrients elsewhere. I just want it to taste like milk.

Any suggestions?

[BabushkaLady]

Condensed milk is sweet. Evaporated milk doesn't taste like milk to me!

This isn't a long-term storage item but I like the boxed milk; Almond Breeze or soy milk or even rice milk. It has a pretty good shelf life, I stopped buying milk because it always went bad between dessert cereals!!

Have you tried mixing powdered milk with condensed or evaporated?

They used to sell frozen coffee creamer . . . I did try that in cereal when I was a kid and desperate.

[big country]

Did you have the powdered milk cold and a day old? I don't like the powdered milk when I have it fresh or warm, but if I make it up and stick it in the fridge over night it gets a lot more pallatable for me. Not sure why letting it sit helps, but it seems to help to me.

[palani]

For the ULTIMATE in freshness

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Holstein_dairy_cows.jpg

FYI the dairy goat variety comes in much smaller packages.

[solid]

Sparky, I posted a thread awhile back on boxed milk, long shelf life milk. Doesn't need to be refrigerated until you open the box.

I've yet to try it, though it gets good reviews. I keep meaning to, this thread is a reminder.

http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?45217-long-shelf-life-milk

[Sparky]

Sparky, I posted a thread awhile back on boxed milk, long shelf life milk. Doesn't need to be refrigerated until you open the box.

I've yet to try it, though it gets good reviews. I keep meaning to, this thread is a reminder.

http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?45217-long-shelf-life-milk

Thanks, solid. This looks like an option I hadn't come across. I see in your original thread there was some criticism about it not being as good as "real" milk, and that it wouldn't have much nutritional value. I'm not looking to substitute real milk day-to-day. I just want to have something in case the real milk supply is interrupted. Their web site says it has the same nutritional value as normally pasteurized milk. Again, I'm not really worried about that. I just don't want to have to eat dry cereal if TSHTF!

Now I gotta find where I can find me some of this $hit. ;)

[solid]

Now I gotta find where I can find me some of this $hit. ;)

Sparky, searching online, I found a dollartree store reasonably close. It's in the ghetto, but I will try and make a trip in the next day or two to see if they have that milk.

[Sparky]

Sparky, searching online, I found a dollartree store reasonably close. It's in the ghetto, but I will try and make a trip in the next day or two to see if they have that milk.

If they do, could you swing by and drop some off? ;) There's a DollarTree about 10 minutes from here; I'll check it out, too.

[solid]

If they do, could you swing by and drop some off? ;) There's a DollarTree about 10 minutes from here; I'll check it out, too.

Sparky, I forgot to update this thread. I stopped by the local DollarTree a few days ago and struck out on the Gossner milk. I did however, email them to find out where locally I could find their products.

I received this response:

Thank you for your interest in Gossner Foods, Inc. & our dairy products. Our milk can be found in the following stores under these labels:
Stop N Shop - Food Hold Labels
Giant – Food Hold labels
Kroger – Hershey label
www.amazon.com- (http://www.amazon.com-/) Borden label
www.campingsurvival.com (http://www.campingsurvival.com/) – Gossner label
www.diversifiedfoods.com (http://www.diversifiedfoods.com/) - Gossner, Borden, & Hershey labels
We are currently working with Dollar Tree to get our milk back on the shelves & other dollar stores to carry our milk.
We also sell product direct. We accept visa or mastercard. For more information please call 800-944-0454 and ask for the store.
Please let me know if you have further questions.

[Sparky]

Thanks solid. I actually found some Parmalat brand, which I understand is one of the world's major producers of UHT milk, and is based in Europe. I picked up a quart to test; it has an expiration date of April 2012, so that's a solid 6 months shelf life. If I come across some Gossner, I'll get that too and make a taste comparison. If this stuff is any good, I'll have to start moving some into my prep rotation. Thanks again for the tip!

[solid]

Sparky, I'm curious to how you like the UHT milk.

I finally found some UHT milk on the shelves at a local grocer, called 'real' brand. Comes in little 8 oz cartons unfortunately, and quite expensive. $2.20 for 3 8 oz cartons.

I did a side by side comparison taste test with the UHT milk and the organic milk I usually buy. Both were chilled to the same tempurature. I was very surprised, I could tell the difference, but not by much. The UHT milk I actually really liked. I wasn't expecting much, but it was good tasting milk!

Now I just gotta find where to prep this milk at a reasonable price. I'd like to find cartons of quart size.

EDIT: Also, I previously did an online search for the Parmalet brand, and it seems they carry it at Walmart. Since I boycott Walmart, I really don't want to set foot in one to find out though..

[Sparky]

It's still in my cupboard. Need to stick it in the fridge so it will be ready for a trial taste. Good to hear yours gets a thumbs up.

I think it was fairly expensive, like 3 bucks a quart, which is even more expensive than you paid. What's the expiration date on what you bought? About 6 months out?

[solid]

I think it was fairly expensive, like 3 bucks a quart, which is even more expensive than you paid. What's the expiration date on what you bought? About 6 months out?

Yup, April of 2012. I've read though that the expiration date is just a technicality, that the milk will last much longer. I really think that if we have an emergency, say the grocery stores can't get fresh produce, having good tasting milk will really be a blessing.

I plan on switching to this milk completely, just rotating it out, and always keeping several months worth onboard. I'm excited because this is the perfect milk for sailing, no refrigeration required. My refrigerator is very small. I could just chill a carton at a time.

[Dogman]

Yup, April of 2012. I've read though that the expiration date is just a technicality, that the milk will last much longer. I really think that if we have an emergency, say the grocery stores can't get fresh produce, having good tasting milk will really be a blessing.

I plan on switching to this milk completely, just rotating it out, and always keeping several months worth onboard. I'm excited because this is the perfect milk for sailing, no refrigeration required. My refrigerator is very small. I could just chill a carton at a time. You could try and also stock up with powder mild and mix the two half and half or so. One trick with powder milk is mix in very hot water and let "age" in the refrigator for a day. Mixing 1/2 and 1/2 is not really bad, imho. That way you could help cut costs and extend your supply. One large box of powder (here) will make 5 gallons.

[Sparky]

Tried the 1% lowfat UHT Parmalat with cereal, and then straight up. Thumbs up! In the cereal, I probably would not have detected the difference from my regular milk if I hadn't already known. Straight up, there was a very small detectable difference. Not worse, just slightly different, similar to what solid said. The UHT almost tasted a little richer, even though it was 1% lowfat, which tends to not have the richness of whole milk. Bottom line is that I was completely satisfied. It tastes far superior to powdered milk. No contest there.

Gotta work some of this into the prep rotation. In general I only prep foods that I already like, which makes it easy to rotate and keep everything fresh while maintaining a supply, but I don't want to switch entirely to the UHT because it is at least 50% more expensive, plus I do still like my regular milk. But I'm going to make it a point to have some of this on hand.

Thanks for the great suggestion, solid!

[solid]

I did another taste test today.

I found Horizon Organic UHT milk in the store. Horizon is my favorite organic milk, so I thought I'd do a taste test.

The Horizon UHT, is quite expensive. It is $4.50 for 3 8 oz cartons. A half gallon of regular horizon milk is around $4. So, the price is a big hammer to the head, blue collar head....kapow, we are left dizzy..

Anyway, the Horizon UHT and the Horizon milk, I couldn't taste the difference. Both tasted creamy, smooth, and very satisfying. If it wasn't for the price, I'd stock Horizon UHT all the way and be proud of it.

[Sparky]

$4.50 for 24 ounces. Yikes, that's $23/gallon! The Parmalat is $2.49/quart, or $10/gallon. I picked up a couple more quarts. Got to accumulate slowly to spread out the expiration dates!

I also did a little research. Parmalat is a major food company based in Italy. They have a licensing arrangement with Agorpur of Canada, which has a U.S. division called Agropur Natrel. The milk I buy comes from cows in Michigan; it is processed in Wyoming. Below is a link to an article on UHT milk in the U.S. It's not nearly as popular here as in other parts of the world, making up only 1% of the milk market. Hopefully it will continue to have a U.S. market.

http://www.grbj.com/GRBJ/ArticleArchive/2011/November/November+14/BUSINESS+JOURNAL+REPORT+ON+WZZN+NEWS.htm

[zap]

I just picked up some evaporated milk, mostly in case I run out of real milk, I can use it in my coffee, here are the ingredients,

milk, dipotassium phosphate,carrageenan,vitamin d3, thats it. Maybe I will open it in the am. and see how it is and give you guys the report. Doesn't sound like there is too much crap in it.

[Dogman]

$4.50 for 24 ounces. Yikes, that's $23/gallon! The Parmalat is $2.49/quart, or $10/gallon. I picked up a couple more quarts. Got to accumulate slowly to spread out the expiration dates!

I also did a little research. Parmalat is a major food company based in Italy. They have a licensing arrangement with Agorpur of Canada, which has a U.S. division called Agropur Natrel. The milk I buy comes from cows in Michigan; it is processed in Wyoming. Below is a link to an article on UHT milk in the U.S. It's not nearly as popular here as in other parts of the world, making up only 1% of the milk market. Hopefully it will continue to have a U.S. market.

http://www.grbj.com/GRBJ/ArticleArchive/2011/November/November+14/BUSINESS+JOURNAL+REPORT+ON+WZZN+NEWS.htm

In some other parts of the world , refrigeration is a luxury and not all have it.

[zap]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipotassium_phosphate It didn't sound so bad ? BUT?

Dipotassium phosphate (K2HPO4) - also phosphoric acid, dipotassium salt; dipotassium hydrogen orthophosphate; potassium phosphate, dibasic - is a highly water-soluble salt which is often used as a fertilizer, food additive and buffering agent. It is a common source of phosphorus and potassium.

The pH of a dipotassium phosphate solution is almost neutral. It is formed by the stoichiometric neutralization of phosphoric acid with potassium hydroxide:

[Dogman]

I just picked up some evaporated milk, mostly in case I run out of real milk, I can use it in my coffee, here are the ingredients,

milk, dipotassium phosphate,carrageenan,vitamin d3, thats it. Maybe I will open it in the am. and see how it is and give you guys the report. Doesn't sound like there is too much crap in it.

dipotassium phosphate

Dipotassium phosphate (K2HPO4) - also phosphoric acid, dipotassium salt; dipotassium hydrogen orthophosphate; potassium phosphate, dibasic - is a highly water-soluble salt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt) which is often used as a fertilizer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertilizer), food additive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_additive) and buffering agent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffering_agent). It is a common source of phosphorus and potassium.

Safety

As a food additive, Dipotassium phosphate is on the FDA's Generally recognized as safe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generally_recognized_as_safe), or GRAS, list of substances[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipotassium_phosphate#cite_note-0). It is used in non-dairy creamers to prevent coagulation.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipotassium_phosphate#cite_note-1)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipotassium_phosphate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipotassium_phosphate#cite_note-1)




carrageenan


Carrageenans or carrageenins (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8a/Loudspeaker.svg/11px-Loudspeaker.svg.png / (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English)ˌ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English#Key)k (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English#Key)ær (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English#Key)ə (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English#Key)ˈ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English#Key)ɡ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English#Key)iː (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English#Key)n (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English#Key)ə (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English#Key)n (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English#Key)z (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English#Key)/ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English) karr-ə-ghee-nənz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Pronunciation_respelling_key)) are a family of linear sulfated polysaccharides (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polysaccharide) that are extracted from red seaweeds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seaweed). There are several varieties of carrageen used in cooking and baking. Kappa-carrageenan is used mostly in breading and batter due to its gelling nature. Lambda carrageenan is a non gelling variety that assists in binding, retaining moisture and in contributing to viscosity in sweet doughs. Iota carrageenan is used primarily in fruit applications and requires calcium ions to develop a heat-reversible and flexible gel.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrageenan


(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipotassium_phosphate#cite_note-1)

[Sparky]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipotassium_phosphate It didn't sound so bad ? BUT?

Dipotassium phosphate (K2HPO4) - also phosphoric acid, dipotassium salt; dipotassium hydrogen orthophosphate; potassium phosphate, dibasic - is a highly water-soluble salt which is often used as a fertilizer, food additive and buffering agent. It is a common source of phosphorus and potassium.

The pH of a dipotassium phosphate solution is almost neutral. It is formed by the stoichiometric neutralization of phosphoric acid with potassium hydroxide:

What are you trying to say, zap?

[Sparky]

In some other parts of the world , refrigeration is a luxury and not all have it.

Yep, we're spoiled here. No pun intended.

[solid]

I also did a little research. Parmalat is a major food company based in Italy. They have a licensing arrangement with Agorpur of Canada, which has a U.S. division called Agropur Natrel. The milk I buy comes from cows in Michigan; it is processed in Wyoming. Below is a link to an article on UHT milk in the U.S. It's not nearly as popular here as in other parts of the world, making up only 1% of the milk market. Hopefully it will continue to have a U.S. market.

http://www.grbj.com/GRBJ/ArticleArchive/2011/November/November+14/BUSINESS+JOURNAL+REPORT+ON+WZZN+NEWS.htm

Thanks Sparky, excellent article. The U.S. division is creating 25 new jobs in Wyoming. It's nice to know that by purchasing Parmalat milk we are supporting U.S. jobs. Now, I just need to find where I can buy the Parmalat milk. I agree the Horizon organic is just too expensive to reasonably prep and use. It is though, very tasty milk. Something about a cold glass of milk in the afternoon is just extremely satisfying.

[bootstrap]

UHT - refers to Ultra High Temperature pasteurization. Essentially the milk is boiled to a higher temperature to kill more bacterial in it than conventional (HTST) pasteurization.

I am not surprised ya'll like the taste of UHT milk more than HTST. To be honest UHT milk has a sterile taste to it because the bacteria thats give milk flavour are killed.

Most of the time UHT processed milk goes into what is called an ASEPTIC package. ASEPTIC packaging is sealed and sterilized in a manner that prevents bacteria from growing inside of it. Hence shelf stable (does not require refrigeration) milk is possible.

UHT and shelf stable milk is significantly more expensive than conventional due to the increased capital and packaging costs.

If you are truly looking for long term storage you might as well go with powdered milk like dogman suggested. However, if you are storing milk powder that has fat in it do not expose high temps as it will spoil.

BTW, personally I wouldn't support Parmalat.

[Sparky]

The Parmalat UHT milk does not have a sterile taste to it at all. If anything, it tastes quite rich, and I had the 1% lowfat version. In contrast, powdered milk tastes chalky. That's why I was looking for an alternative.

Why wouldn't you support Pamalat?

[Dogman]

The Parmalat UHT milk does not have a sterile taste to it at all. If anything, it tastes quite rich, and I had the 1% lowfat version. In contrast, powdered milk tastes chalky. That's why I was looking for an alternative.

Why wouldn't you support Pamalat?

Just for a grin, try mixing powdered milk with near boiling water on the stove and add about 1/2 to 1 cup more powder than recommended. Then refrigerate for a day. Even better is to mix half and half with regular milk. The hot water helps dissolve the powder completely.

[bootstrap]

The Parmalat UHT milk does not have a sterile taste to it at all. If anything, it tastes quite rich, and I had the 1% lowfat version. In contrast, powdered milk tastes chalky. That's why I was looking for an alternative.

Why wouldn't you support Pamalat?

Richness would be due to the butterfat in the milk. I imagine if you did a blind taste test between UHT and HTST you could see what I am talking about.

Parmalat's profits and overhead costs go back to Italy. If I am buying dairy I would prefer to support one of the several regional and co-operative dairy processors here in the US.

[Sparky]

Richness would be due to the butterfat in the milk. I imagine if you did a blind taste test between UHT and HTST you could see what I am talking about.

Parmalat's profits and overhead costs go back to Italy. If I am buying dairy I would prefer to support one of the several regional and co-operative dairy processors here in the US.

Did you read my post? The milk is purchased from dairy farmers in Michigan, and processed at a plant in Wisconsin.

I don't understand your point about bufferfat. The UHT milk is different only in that it is flash-heated to a higher temperature. I compared the nutrition information with regular 1% lowfat milk; they were virtually identical.

I'm open to critical information, but it seems like you've simply decided that you don't want to like it.

[solid]

I'm open to critical information, but it seems like you've simply decided that you don't want to like it.

Milk wars! One two three four, I declare a milk war! ;D

Bootstrap, I did a taste test (previous post). 2 tests actually, the second one with Horizon Organic UHT and regular, there's not much difference in taste. I really like the UHT milk. The only ingredients in there is milk, and vitamins A & D. That's it.

I don't understand your dislike of the UHT milk, have you tried it?

[Heimdhal]

speaking of dairy prep.....


Does any body have a single can of Red Feather (or similar) Canned Cheese and one of Canned Butter. Some one used to sell them individualy from time to time on GSUS and I have been meaning to get my hands on one to try it to see if its worth buying. However ever on ebay it'll wind up costing me 15-20$ for a single can because, well, its ebay.

If some ones willing me, shoot me a price and I'll be happy to pay it. Our main "processed" cheese prep right now is actualy campells condense chedar cheese. When mixed and heated up with a little milk, it actualy taste like velveta. Its certainly NOT the most ideal, but we've used it succesfully in a good number of prep recipes that call for cheese, so it works, but I'd really like to have something different and with a longer shelf life.

ok, begging over.

[bootstrap]

Did you read my post? The milk is purchased from dairy farmers in Michigan, and processed at a plant in Wisconsin.

I don't understand your point about bufferfat. The UHT milk is different only in that it is flash-heated to a higher temperature. I compared the nutrition information with regular 1% lowfat milk; they were virtually identical.

I'm open to critical information, but it seems like you've simply decided that you don't want to like it.

Yes, I understand that the milk is purchased from producers and it is processed within the United States and that is great. What I was referring was the to the companies profits. Parmalat had an accounting scandal in the early 2000s and that is one reason why I am sour on them.

I was not meaning to put their product down I was simply trying to explain the difference between HTST versus UHT processing. I am not really a milk drinker, but I have had UHT processed milk and do enjoy it. I have actually I got my father hooked on it.

[bootstrap]

Milk wars! One two three four, I declare a milk war! ;D

Bootstrap, I did a taste test (previous post). 2 tests actually, the second one with Horizon Organic UHT and regular, there's not much difference in taste. I really like the UHT milk. The only ingredients in there is milk, and vitamins A & D. That's it.

I don't understand your dislike of the UHT milk, have you tried it?

Solid, I never stated that I disliked UHT milk. I was just trying to explain the product to y'all. The only thing I mention I did not like was Parmalat. Yes, I have had UHT milk and it does taste good. I just know it does taste different than normal milk.