Canadian Gun Registry

[LastResort]

When will it fall? I say never.

When I read between the lines on a news article like this one I can come up with a couple of conclusions. The most likely one seems the registry will fall only for smaller caliber guns like a .22 rifle or .410 shotgun. They will probably end up re-classifing guns up here IMO. Any other opinions. I say it won't fall 100%.


http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/canada-in-afghanistan/Canadians+legally+wide+range+powerful+guns/5594882/story.html

Canadians can legally own a wide range of powerful guns . . . and they do




The Canadian public loves its guns, and has a sizable arsenal to prove it.


According to the most recent statistics from the Canadian Firearms Centre, there are more than 7.6 million registered firearms in Canada, or about one gun per four Canadians.


More than 1.8 million Canadians — about six per cent of the population — have valid gun licences, with the largest concentrations in Atlantic Canada and the North.


The Yukon stacks up as the most gun-loving area of the country, with more than 84 guns per 100 people.


Newfoundland has the second-highest rate with 41 per 100 population, and Nova Scotia is third with 34 per 100 population. Similar rates are found in the Prairies.


British Columbia, Quebec, Ontario and P.E.I. have the lowest ownership rates, at 23, 22, 19 and 18 guns per 100 population, respectively.


Firearms researcher Gary Mauser, a professor at Simon Fraser University in Burnaby, B.C., estimates there are between 12 million and 15 million firearms in Canada, belonging to up to 3.5 million gun owners.


This figure includes estimates of illegally imported guns, as well as those that were never registered when registration controls were tightened on the mid-1990s.


The majority of guns owned by Canadians are non-restricted long guns, shorthand for rifles and shotguns. Should new legislation be passed as the Conservative government has pledged, there will be no requirement to register this class of weapon.


Once a gun is bought, it can be modified to make it more agile and functional. Common tactical additions include pistol grips, folding or collapsible butt-stocks, sophisticated sights, flash hiders, and lightweight synthetic bodies to replace the standard wood furniture.


When purchased, a Ruger Mini 14 or "Ranch Rifle" is a fairly standard semi-automatic rifle, shooting the same 5.56 calibre ammunition used by NATO militaries. But when modified with specialized parts, it becomes considerably more combat-ready, accurate and intimidating.


A heavily modified Ruger Mini 14 was the weapon of choice for Anders Breivik in the recent Norway shootings, as well as the weapon favoured by Marc Lepine in the Montreal Massacre in 1989.


The Mini 14 — and its big brother the Mini 30 — are widely available in Canada for around $1,000 and are classified non-restricted.


In Canada, guns are classified by product name, and many well-known guns such as the "M16" or "AK-47" have been prohibited.


But firearms retailers have had an easy time skirting and sidestepping regulations to sell very similar guns to eager customers. Their method is to import near-identical semi-automatic facsimiles of banned weapons under different, generic names.


An example is the Czech-made CZ 858 Tactical rifle, which appears almost identical to the infamous Russian-made AK-47 assault rifle and shoots the same 7.62-calibre NATO bullet. This "civilianized" semi-automatic version of the Vz 58 rifle, used by Third World armies, was designed specifically for sale in Canada. It is classified non-restricted here, whereas its grandfather, the AK-47, is fully prohibited.


The firearms company Wanstalls.com also sells — on special order — the Steyr HS50.


It shoots a powerful .50-calibre bullet, and is among the largest guns a single man can handle and fire. Its range is up to two kilometres, and it is similar to the rifle Canadian soldiers used in Afghanistan to make the then-longest sniper kill ever, at 2,310 metres.


This is an anti-material rifle, and was designed to shoot vehicles, not people or animals.


It packs enough kinetic force and penetrating power to split the engine block of a truck, or shoot down a helicopter. It can also pierce the skins of lightly armoured vehicles, and would make Swiss cheese out of even Level Four body armour, the heaviest armour that Canadian army and police wear. Non-restricted in Canada, the HS50 can be purchased for around $5,300.


Another Vancouver-based arms retailer, CanadaAmmo.com, stays in compliance with firearms controls laws by having what some call "legal prohibs" manufactured in China. These guns are expressly designed to closely imitate prohibited weapons.


One example is the Dominion Arms Outlaw Double Barrel Shotgun, which is easily concealable. Sawing down barrels to make such a gun in Canada is illegal, but the "Outlaw" is classified non-restricted because it was never sawed down: it was manufactured this way. It retails for $299.

[palani]

When will it fall? I say never.

A more interesting question is "Who does it apply to?"

If it doesn't apply then ignore it.

[LastResort]

"Who does it apply to?"



ME!

[palani]

ME!

By all means obey it then.

It doesn't apply to ME!

[Awoke]

The conservative party of Canada based 90% of their platform on abolishing the long gun registry. Almost every gun owner in Canada rallied behind them. I saw my own gun club and many others organize fund raisers and education campaigns, and gun owners even took time to go door to door and talk to residents in the hopes to sway "Liberal" areas into voting Conservative.

I know a guy that was part of a committee that got gun owners together to raise over $30,000 dollars, just to get rid of ONE LIBERAL in ONE RIDING, and to get a conservative vote in that area.

As soon as the federal government election dust settled, the province of Ontario stated that they would be looking at taking the registry over. Same shit, same group of assholes.

The only thing you can hope for is to buy a shitload of guns in a small window, when the registry changes hands and there is some confusion. Or find a dealer that doesn't register guns, which is impossible.

It's all a lie, imo. I said it from the start. I knew it was a farce.

[LastResort]

It's all a lie, imo. I said it from the start. I knew it was a farce.

Exactly, thats why I'm trying to get a feel for what they're actually going to do.

I had friends and family argue with me about them quashing the registry. Fat chance is what I told them.

[Awoke]

Exactly, thats why I'm trying to get a feel for what they're actually going to do.


If the FEDs drop the registry, the Province will take it over.
If a province chooses not too, I am going for a drive there to buy a bunch of stuff and bring it home.



I had friends and family argue with me about them quashing the registry. Fat chance is what I told them.


Since when has the government ever let up on control?

The only moves they make are the ones that give them more control, not less. They are not willing to let go of something like this. It's all just lip service.

[Ares]

A more interesting question is "Who does it apply to?"

If it doesn't apply then ignore it.

Last Resort, it doesn't apply to you. Your government (If you're Canadian) is DE-facto not dejure. I watched a Canadian citizen (I can't remember his name, but Ben Stewart created a movie about him called Ungrip)

video here -->
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tScuHwVtRcY

link--> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tScuHwVtRcY

He goes into some detail showing that the Canadian government isn't even legitimate because the people never got to vote for the elected officials or what form of government whey were going to have after the King of England signed away Canadian soil over to them.

[keehah]

When I read between the lines on a news article...

I don't recall exactly when I first heard this scrap (even part of the legislation) fairy tale, but before the first politician or corporate news liar finished the first sentence, I'm pretty sure I knew it was a fairy tale.

[Awoke]

That's correct Ares. Canada is technically an illegitimate Country, because the only way that it could become a Country is if the Provinces all voted "Yay" in harmony. The vote was never taken, because there was opposition to begin with when the discussion was tabled.

So we have been lied too. The PTB just said "Yay, Canada is now a unified Country! We voted on it and it passed" and the people saud "wtf?" and after time everyone just grew to accept it to be fact, when in fact it is NOT a Country.

However, Tazers and jailtime are the motivating factors for compliance in the NCO. (New Canadian Order! HAHA!)

[LastResort]

However, Tazers and jailtime are the motivating factors for compliance in the NCO. (New Canadian Order! HAHA!)

Exactly we can beat around the bush with loopholes and technical shit that I don't understand If I had free time to spend in jail and bottomless pockets for court but I don't. I just wanna be left alone to go hunting unfortunately that means giving the gubmint a list of my firearms...


Funny how the media works. I have read 2 more news articles today demonizing legal assault rifles, sks etc. If I had one thats registered I'd get rid of it while its still worth something. I'm sure these will be re-classified as restricted...

[Awoke]

Just because a gun is classified as a restricted doesn't mean you shouldn't own one.

In fact, it's more of a reason to own one. For every adult that holds a restricted weapon, that's another voice they know they have to contend with. I know it doens't mean much, but I encourage everyone to get their restricted licence and aquire handguns/AR's, etc.

[seaurchin1]

Just renewed my restricted license. I was stupid enough to let it expire, but after jumping through the hoops and waiting for three months, it's all sorted.
I figure they aren't going to throw out the registry, and restrictions will get worse, so now is the time to stock up on handguns, etc. I agree with Awoke,
the more people with restricted licenses, the bigger the voice of opposition when they do start making things more difficult.

[LastResort]

I agree with your train of thought on owning restricted guns. I was even going to get my license a few years back. Then I looked into it... Jumping through hoops to get it is right. I didn't see the point in owning a handgun just so I can take it to a range once a month, and heaven forbid you get caught with it doing anything more than going to and from the range they'll nail you to a cross.

Anyways scrapping the gun registry is only going to result in one thing...Even tighter gun controls..:o

[Awoke]

Yeah dude, but you will never get better with a handgun if you don't shoot one.

Add to that, you can always get involved n IPSC or IDPA if you want to run & gun and go to tournaments and stuff. I don't shoot those, but I have friends that do and they love it. It's exiting!

Also, the hoops are no worse than the (Totally gay) long gun registry: Attend a course, pass a test, get your licence. They just make it sound like a huge deal, but in reality all it is is a slow moving deal. It takes a lot of time to get an ATT. Other than that, you'll be rockin in no time!

I strongly urge you and all your responsible friends and family members to get their restricted and buy some handguns.

[seaurchin1]

Yes, the waiting is the worst part! Fill in the time by joining your local gun club/range and doing lots of research on guns, accessories, etc.
Look into getting into IPSC. Don't let them put you off getting your restricted license with their hoops.

[Awoke]

I have been considering looking into what kind of hoops a person would have to jump through to get a prohibited licence. I don't know if there is a way or not, but I might look into it if I ever make the time.

Then I could have an AK47 and other fun stuff.

[Dogman]

I have been considering looking into what kind of hoops a person would have to jump through to get a prohibited licence. I don't know if there is a way or not, but I might look into it if I ever make the time.

Then I could have an AK47 and other fun stuff. Here if you have a clean record and are willing to spend the money you can own automatic weapons. Bunch of hoop jumping and treasure spent, but you can own and use them. Just be prepared for unscheduled visits to check up on what you are doing with them.

I would think it may be the same there?

[Son-of-Liberty]

I agree. I think all this talk of scrapping the long gun registry is just that talk. keep the gun owners pacified thinking you are trying to do something in their interest.

I am sort of split as to whether I should renew my restricted license or not. Plenty of good firearms that are non-restricted and no hassle with where you can take them or why.

For example they mentioned the CZ-858 in the article. I have a restricted one because the barrel is 16" I could sell the one I have and buy one with a 20" barrel and it would be non-restricted and I could take it out and shoot it whenever I felt like it. Same firepower, probably better accuracy. What is the point in having the restricted license? Plus if they ever decide to round up the guns whose guns are they going to come for first? Probably the restricted guys. I figure with Non-restricted you can have the exact same benefits with less hassle and fly under the radar, and if they ever get rid of the long gun registry like they are promising to do so much the better.

[Dogman]

It is a general truth that what ever goes into a gov record , will live forever and ever. Sort of like the song hotel California. Nothing is ever destroyed so what is on the books can someday come back and haunt you.

[Son-of-Liberty]

The other thing I noticed from the article is that the experts estimate of the number of guns in Canada was roughly twice the number registered. What did they expect? Everyone would register everything?. Their gun registry is useless.

[Awoke]

What is the point in having the restricted license? Plus if they ever decide to round up the guns whose guns are they going to come for first? Probably the restricted guys. I figure with Non-restricted you can have the exact same benefits with less hassle and fly under the radar, and if they ever get rid of the long gun registry like they are promising to do so much the better.


Provided you don't care about owning handguns (Without risking going to jail)

I personally want handguns in my house.

[Son-of-Liberty]

Provided you don't care about owning handguns (Without risking going to jail)

I personally want handguns in my house.

I get what your saying but if you are already in your house you might as well grab a shotgun instead. Or a semi-auto like the CZ-858 with the 20 inch barrel or even an SKS (only $200) would put the hurt on bad guys real quick.

A handgun would be nice to have in your car or on your person especially if TSHTF but that is illegal regardless of whether it is a registered handgun or not.

[Son-of-Liberty]

So that basically leaves the only legitimate reason to have a handgun is to keep up on your practice. Which is fine but it is just a major pain in the ass.

[Awoke]

So that basically leaves the only legitimate reason to have a handgun is to keep up on your practice. Which is fine but it is just a major pain in the ass.

That's right. When TSHTF you won't be worried about permission to carry, and you might not want to conduct your day to day business with an SKS hanging off your single point harness, banging off your knees.

I don't know how much you have fired handguns, and I am not challenging you, but I do want to impress the fact that shooting handguns with accuracy out past 20 yards is not easy. It takes practice practice practice. I know people that can't hit shit at 10 yards, due to recoil anticipation.

[Son-of-Liberty]

I am decent with a handgun. I was an armored car guard awhile back and we have similar gun training to police which isn't saying much but we needed decent accuracy. The company didn't want us getting into a gun fight with robbers and missing them and taking out innocent bystanders because of liability. I have a restricted license now so who says I don't have handguns right now?

My beef is it is such a hassle just to go use the damn things that it just doesn't seem worth the effort. I have a suspicion that about the time TSHTF is about the time they will tell you to turn in your restricted guns, seeing how the government wants to keep us all safe.

[seaurchin1]

Sure, you can grab a shotgun to defend yourself at home, but why not be able to choose to grab a handgun instead?
Part of the reason why I went for a restricted license was because I want to be able to choose which firearm I grab.

[Son-of-Liberty]

Hey if you think there is benefit to having a handgun available over a shotgun in some home defense situations more power to ya. (I just don't feel the need for the hassle anymore considering a shotty or a semi-auto rifle would take care of almost any situation a handgun would)

[seaurchin1]

I am decent with a handgun. I was an armored car guard awhile back and we have similar gun training to police which isn't saying much but we needed decent accuracy. The company didn't want us getting into a gun fight with robbers and missing them and taking out innocent bystanders because of liability. I have a restricted license now so who says I don't have handguns right now?

My beef is it is such a hassle just to go use the damn things that it just doesn't seem worth the effort. I have a suspicion that about the time TSHTF is about the time they will tell you to turn in your restricted guns, seeing how the government wants to keep us all safe.

It seems to me that it is less of a hassle these days to tale a handgun to the range. Just get a 5 year ATT, and you can go to the range whenever you want. Years ago you used to have to go to
the RCMP to get a permit to transport every time you wanted to take a handgun to the range. Now that was a pain in the ass

[Son-of-Liberty]

I have a 5 year ATT. Just wish I could shoot em out at my dads farm or on crown land or use them for hunting. Every time I go to the range it just seems like such an event and usually takes up half my day. Don't have that much spare time these days.

[seaurchin1]

Hey if you think there is benefit to having a handgun available over a shotgun in some home defense situations more power to ya. (I just don't feel the need for the hassle anymore considering a shotty or a semi-auto rifle would take care of almost any situation a handgun would)


Oh, I agree. Nothing wrong with a shotgun in a home defense situation, I've got one that is ideal for that purpose. I just want to be able to choose: Winchester Defender or handgun.

And , yes it's shitty that you have to shoot at a range and not out at the farm, but I figure it's better than nothing

[Awoke]

I have a short tactical shotgun for home defense, and it's my choice in home defence.

#4 shot will not go through 3 walls and travel hundreds of yards and hit a neighor in the face by accident, like a round from a semi auto rifle or handgun can. So for liability reasons, shotguns are the wisest choice in a home defense situation, IMO.

I am a "Canadian Carry" proponant, and IMO any Canadian should be allowed to carry whenever they want. That is the bottom line for me.

However, I would be content to see stepping stones take place, for example, if you are a large game hunter, and you're bow hunting, I think it would be wise to let the hunter take a sidearm.

As a bowhunter, I know I would feel safer carrying a pistol with me when I hunt bear. But even that is just one example out of millions. Canadians should have the right to carry, case closed.

[Son-of-Liberty]

I believe there are provisions for open carry in certain circumstances like if you are a prospector in grizzley country. Now how often they issue these permits is another matter.

[LastResort]

Son of liberty your thoughts mirror mine almost to a tee. I would love to have a hand gun, but it seems like such a hassle just so I can go to a range. I barely have time to do the things already on my plate let alone go to a range even once a month. My old mossberg shotgun is what sleeps under my bed for home defence, trigger locked of course...

13 more sleeps till deer hunting for a week. :)

P.S. I had the chance to buy a 9mm a few years back under the table sort of speak. Wish I had. Didn't have the balls at the time though.:(

[Awoke]

I believe there are provisions for open carry in certain circumstances like if you are a prospector in grizzley country. Now how often they issue these permits is another matter.

Yeah when I did my course, there were some young college girls there that were taking the course because they were going to be Conservation Officers, and they were getting shipped up to the NWT area. They were pretty nervous just reading about pistols, never mind handling them.