On apathy

[dys]

One of the common themes that I see on forums like this is the notion that human nature is apathetic. I'd like to make the case that this is not true; that human nature is for the most part the opposite of apathy.

First, consider a day in the life of Joe6Pack in today's world. He is up at the crack of dawn for work, busts his ass all day working, then rushes home (often in traffic) in order to cart the kiddies off to soccer practice. Then he attends to whatever maintenance issues are happening with the house. Once they get home from said practice, he helps them with their homework, eats dinner, and grabs the 6pack for some tv time before bedtime. He surfs the net while watching tv, which is often/usually a sporting competition. Then he perhaps indulges in some porn viewing before hitting the sack.
I think we can all that agree that all of this is typical and not out of the ordinary.

So I ask you, does this lifestyle constitute apathy? I say no. it requires a lot of effort and commitment to get up early everyday, work hard, and work long hours. It requires a lot of effort and commitment to maintain a clean, up to date living space (especially if this is a house). It requires a lot of effort and commitment to engage as a passionate sports fan. It requires a lot of effort and commitment to pay bills on time. It requires passion to be interested in porn (if not effort and commitment). These are not behaviours that constitute apathy.

I think what's happened is that the bad guys have perfected various strategies and tactics to funnel human natures' natural passions into useless or destructive endeavors. Also, they use the natural human need to fit in as a weapon against those that would challenge the system. Therefore, certain passions are encouraged and cultivated (read: war), while others are socially discouraged through programming and social engineering. In other words, the 'apathy' phenom that most of us have seen from sheeple is a defense mechanism against being seen as a loon. It is not true apathy, but the appearance of apathy. Thoughts?

dys

[sunshine05]

Well, in my particular situation, which is pointing out corruption and misconduct of officials (police, judges and prosecutors) people are very programmed to never question authority. Even though they've seen concrete proof of it they are still afraid to do anything about it. So maybe it's a combination of apathy and fear. I think most people don't care as long as they aren't personally affected. That to me is apathy.

TSA is another example. If everyone said BS, we're not putting up with this and actually boycotted to such an extent that it put airlines out of business, things would change. But no. They just go along with it and now it's growing.

[Awoke]

Too lazy to discuss...

[dys]

Well, in my particular situation, which is pointing out corruption and misconduct of officials (police, judges and prosecutors) people are very programmed to never question authority. Even though they've seen concrete proof of it they are still afraid to do anything about it. So maybe it's a combination of apathy and fear. I think most people don't care as long as they aren't personally affected. That to me is apathy.

TSA is another example. If everyone said BS, we're not putting up with this and actually boycotted to such an extent that it put airlines out of business, things would change. But no. They just go along with it and now it's growing.

I think that most people don't care because of 2 reasons:

1. They are TOLD that it is wrong to question authority.
2. They have no TIME to care.

dys

[po boy]

The saying "you can't beat city hall' comes to mind."

Now why not try anyway.

[Joe King]

One of the common themes that I see on forums like this is the notion that human nature is apathetic. I'd like to make the case that this is not true; that human nature is for the most part the opposite of apathy.

First, consider a day in the life of Joe6Pack in today's world. He is up at the crack of dawn for work, busts his ass all day working, then rushes home (often in traffic) in order to cart the kiddies off to soccer practice. Then he attends to whatever maintenance issues are happening with the house. Once they get home from said practice, he helps them with their homework, eats dinner, and grabs the 6pack for some tv time before bedtime. He surfs the net while watching tv, which is often/usually a sporting competition. Then he perhaps indulges in some porn viewing before hitting the sack.
I think we can all that agree that all of this is typical and not out of the ordinary.

So I ask you, does this lifestyle constitute apathy? I say no. it requires a lot of effort and commitment to get up early everyday, work hard, and work long hours. It requires a lot of effort and commitment to maintain a clean, up to date living space (especially if this is a house). It requires a lot of effort and commitment to engage as a passionate sports fan. It requires a lot of effort and commitment to pay bills on time. It requires passion to be interested in porn (if not effort and commitment). These are not behaviours that constitute apathy.

I think what's happened is that the bad guys have perfected various strategies and tactics to funnel human natures' natural passions into useless or destructive endeavors. Also, they use the natural human need to fit in as a weapon against those that would challenge the system. Therefore, certain passions are encouraged and cultivated (read: war), while others are socially discouraged through programming and social engineering. In other words, the 'apathy' phenom that most of us have seen from sheeple is a defense mechanism against being seen as a loon. It is not true apathy, but the appearance of apathy. Thoughts?

dysThe apathy comes into play when he knows it's about something that's important, but that doesn't directly concern him at the moment.

[dys]

The apathy comes into play when he knows it's about something that's important, but that doesn't directly concern him at the moment.

I don't buy this. First of all, I don't buy that he knows that it's something important. Second, even if he did know that it was something important, it wouldn't disprove my point. The reason for this is that he is passionate about other things that he considers important. Again, consider that men risk their very lives every single day all around the war to fight for 'their countries' (at least in their minds). If these men are willing to die in war, why are they not willing to die to avoid going to war?

dys

[Hatha Sunahara]

Fluoride causes passivity and apathy.

I can't blame people who suffer from it for this condition. They are victims of a larger social engineering agenda.

If fluoride had been in the drinking water in France in the late eighteenth century there would have been no French revolution.

I feel fortunate. There is no fluoride in my drinking water, and I use only baking soda and peroxide to brush my teeth, and I take no fluoride rinses from my dentist. If I am apathetic, it's because I choose to be so--not because I'm drugged into it.


Hatha

[vacuum]

I think you're largely right here dys in your observations, but I think your conclusion is wrong. People are driven by many passions and other things, and in general are not apathetic.

However, apathy is "death to the world" and is the first stage of spiritual growth, so it's not necessarily a bad thing. On the other side of it, being fully non-apathetic drives the world and leads to the cycle of technological growth, revolutions, and the cycles seen in history. Both of these types of people are important, the first drives individual spiritual growth, the second drives growth as a whole.

The detrimental situation are those who are somewhere in between. They aren't strongly enough on one side or the other to make valuable contributions to either.

[Book]

He is up at the crack of dawn for work, busts his ass all day working, then rushes home (often in traffic) in order to cart the kiddies off to soccer practice. Then he attends to whatever maintenance issues are happening with the house. Once they get home from said practice, he helps them with their homework, eats dinner, and grabs the 6pack for some tv time before bedtime. He surfs the net while watching tv, which is often/usually a sporting competition. Then he perhaps indulges in some porn viewing before hitting the sack.

I think we can all that agree that all of this is typical and not out of the ordinary.



http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vkkyg-ulmM4/S9h3Y_gFPsI/AAAAAAAAABc/nhibWQuspho/s1600/masturbation-2.jpg

Not typical at all.



::) "rushes home (often in traffic) in order to cart the kiddies off to soccer practice"

[VX1]

Dys... your line of thinking seems to be that people are not apathetic, because they show passion for certain trivial things. Perhaps "apathy" is too general a term here. Sure people have passions, but what does it matter if that passion is for a fictional television show? People are scared, drugged, trained like pets, and kept stupid with lies. I can stand on a soapbox in front of a couple dozen "normal" people of America, and openly declare I have proof that our government has been hijacked by the powers who created Israel, and that they have, and are, killing innocent Americans on American soil. I can declare that I have proof our puppet leaders are purposefully destroying America and impoverishing people. You would think it would be an important opportunity for people to learn information which affects them and their family. Instead, no one in the crowd will give a shit, and probably resent me for even bringing it up. That's apathy.

[iOWNme]

Slaves worked hard everyday as well.

I could argue that apathy is not throwing off your slave Masters, and doing just enough work to not get killed (or fired).

Although i do agree with you Dys, there seems to be different levels/types of apathy.

Some humans will put up with damn near anything, and be proud of it. They wouldnt call themselves apathetic, but i sure as hell would.

[Sparky]

I totally agree with dys' original point, and I think it's a very important one.

Our society in terms of expectations and procedures has been constructed to consume all of our time and energy, and it's very difficult to break away. I have this frustration all of the time. Maintaining orderly structure as we have come to know it is a full time job. The big three time consumers are 1) house/home, 2) children/family, and perhaps to a lesser degree 3) vehicles/transportation/commuting. We become slaves to these things because our expectations are set so high either by ourselves, or externally.

For a long time, I've thought that too much of life is maintenance. Can we blame the Average Joe for not getting all up in arms about ending the Fed? He has so many bills and insurance and appointments and house repairs and car repairs and kids' functions to tend to that, when 15 minutes of time frees up, he's going to watch TV or surf the internet to give his mind a rest.

Good topic, dys.

[Hatha Sunahara]

For a long time, I've thought that too much of life is maintenance. Can we blame the Average Joe for not getting all up in arms about ending the Fed? He has so many bills and insurance and appointments and house repairs and car repairs and kids' functions to tend to that, when 15 minutes of time frees up, he's going to watch TV or surf the internet to give his mind a rest.

That's a great argument, Sparky.

I think what we have is engineered apathy.

There is, I suspect, an area of science that is hidden from most of us. I call it 'Social Engineering'. The only other discipline I know of that is similar to it is "Farm Management" (aka 'Agriculture') where what is being managed are plants or animals -- on a production basis. Farmers know how their cows, sheep, goats, pigs, and chickens behave. What they like and dislike, and what they need to stay healthy. And that's how they manage a farm. Social engineers see their fellow humans as farm animals whose behavior can be managed for somebody's profit. I think one of the hotbeds of modern social engineering--as a science--is the Tavistock Institure. I think these people fund studies that yield jewels of wisdom on how to use human nature to keep people unconsciously in a state of slavery, and keep them happy at the same time.

Apathy, I think is the internalization of the message 'this doesn't concern you' or 'it's none of your business'. It's kinda like political correctness, where the internalized message is 'don't bite the hand that feeds you'. I think Apathy and Political Correctness are behavioral tools that benefit the status quo. Invisible muzzles and leashes. Aided by chemical means via fluoride.


Hatha

[sunshine05]

Thinking about this some more. Sheeple who think everything is fine, the government will take care of everything, believe there is a difference btwn democrats and republicans, believe our food supply is safe because the govt. says so, trust their doctors and get all vaccinations, trust the media, etc. will be less inclined to do something about an injustice and less likely to research anything or even to suspect that things aren't quite right. They are living under a false sense of security but they can't see it. They believe we live in a "free" country and ignore signs of a police state because they trust the msm.

People who are more awake already know how screwed up everything is and are dealing with it as best as possible. I think the more awake one is, the more likely they will try to make a difference, even if it's just attempting to educate people. Or maybe the more awake people tend to be less apathetic to begin with and that's why they're awake. I know this makes NO sense. It's hard to put into words.

[Sparky]

Sunshine, I think the point that dys is trying to make is that it's not so much that "sheeple think everything is fine", but rather that they are too busy trying to keep their heads above water. Even those who sense something is wrong feel like they can't afford to lift their shoulder from the grinding wheel long enough to investigate, lest they lose even more ground.

I remember hearing the term "rat race" as a kid. That's what it is, a "rat race" that is structured to divert all of your energy as you juggle to keep all the balls in the air at the same time.

[po boy]

True about the rat race but, if one never looks for the hole in the fence they will never find it.

[Joe King]

I remember hearing the term "rat race" as a kid. That's what it is, a "rat race" that is structured to divert all of your energy as you juggle to keep all the balls in the air at the same time.The rat race is but mankinds energy/potential, harnessed.

Just imagine how much more productive mankind has been, simply due to knowing that they have to work to pay off past debts incurred.
How many people get up at ~5AM to get ready to go to a job they hate that they know they can't quit, but would quit in a heartbeat if they didn't need the "money", or at least not as much of it?

Debt is the fuel that drives the rat race.

[po boy]

How much wealth and creativity have been lost due to the practice of usury?How much inheritance has been suck away and lives destroyed by those with an agenda to take advantage of the unsuspecting? How many inventions have been suppressed so as to keep monopoly going?

I don't see that as productive for mankind but for the privileged greedy few.

Debt definitely drives the rat race but productive isn't the word I would use for it more like destructive.

[Joe King]

How much wealth and creativity have been lost due to the practice of usury?How much inheritance has been suck away and lives destroyed by those with an agenda to take advantage of the unsuspecting? How many inventions have been suppressed so as to keep monopoly going?

I don't see that as productive for mankind but for the privileged greedy few.

Debt definitely drives the rat race but productive isn't the word I would use for it more like destructive.As I said, it's a harnassing of mankind in order to direct it's energies/productivity.
...and what I mean by more productive is that debt can get people to do that which they might otherwise be un-inclined to do.

[po boy]

One unintended consequence that comes from debt is divorce, productivity would be greater if people were doing work they truly liked.Even better if no debt was take or if we still practiced the jubuliee.

There may be a few good points about debt without usury I'd say that is true, however that type is less common.

[Joe King]

One unintended consequence that comes from debt is divorce, productivity would be greater if people were doing work they truly liked.Even better if no debt was take or if we still practiced the jubuliee.

There may be a few good points about debt without usury I'd say that is true, however that type is less common.If people can find a job they like, that's great and the thing to shoot for. However, a lot of people can't get a job they "like" and end up doing what they have to do to keep the roof over their head and the bills paid. Lots of bills and debt is a motivating factor that helps keep people going to jobs they can do, but may not necessarily like, because it pays more than anything else they can do and they need the "money".

There's nothing worse than going to job you don't like to earn "money" you don't really need.

[JDRock]

umm i think,....oh forget about it....

[sunshine05]

Sunshine, I think the point that dys is trying to make is that it's not so much that "sheeple think everything is fine", but rather that they are too busy trying to keep their heads above water. Even those who sense something is wrong feel like they can't afford to lift their shoulder from the grinding wheel long enough to investigate, lest they lose even more ground.

I remember hearing the term "rat race" as a kid. That's what it is, a "rat race" that is structured to divert all of your energy as you juggle to keep all the balls in the air at the same time.

I don't know. My husband works long hours and travels a lot. He wasn't too busy to wake up. He is not apathetic, disgusted maybe but not apathetic. I don't buy it that people are too busy. I think they're just too trusting, gullible maybe.

[keehah]

A Lesson In Cognitive Dissonance

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=korGK0yGIDo

[dys]

Dys... your line of thinking seems to be that people are not apathetic, because they show passion for certain trivial things. Perhaps "apathy" is too general a term here. Sure people have passions, but what does it matter if that passion is for a fictional television show? People are scared, drugged, trained like pets, and kept stupid with lies. I can stand on a soapbox in front of a couple dozen "normal" people of America, and openly declare I have proof that our government has been hijacked by the powers who created Israel, and that they have, and are, killing innocent Americans on American soil. I can declare that I have proof our puppet leaders are purposefully destroying America and impoverishing people. You would think it would be an important opportunity for people to learn information which affects them and their family. Instead, no one in the crowd will give a shit, and probably resent me for even bringing it up. That's apathy.

I don't think that people wouldn't give a shit in your hypothetical example. I think that people would assume that you are crazy if you tried to convey this message in the manner in which you describe. Why? Because most people tend to believe what they have been told their whole lives. And most people tend to believe perceived authority (which you are not).

dys