Wanting to get out of Retirement/Equities, need advice

[cpy911]

Hi all,
I have known for some time that the equities/stock market is rigged and at risk of default and that I need to do something about it--like get out! I respect those who want to stay in the markets, but I really want to get completely out and move everything I have into hard assets (Per Ponce, If you don't hold it.....). Many of you will understand.

Since '08, after being let go from my employment, I have not put any more money into any equities/paper assets but rather into hard assets after getting back to work a year later. I have been very happy with this decision and it has done well for me. However, I am looking at the old 401K now just an IRA funds that I really want to get out of. Has anyone done this? How painful was it? Unfortunately, I don't have enough to pay off my house, but could pay off about half. Otherwise, I am looking at buying rural farm land or some sort of real estate. Other than PM's (covered), what hard assets do you folks like?

I tried to make the paper assets as protected and diversified like buying Sprotts PSLV, some gold coins with Sterling Trust. However most of my funds are in equities with Fidelity and some with Europacific Capital.

Anyhow, I no longer trust any of my "wealth" with anyone else right now. Am I talking nonsense? Am I being extreme here? I just think we have lost rule of law in the enforcing our financial sector...Celente should know.

Anyhow, your opinions and experiences are welcomed...I just am frustrated by the heavy taxes (30%?) and penalties (10%) I will have to pay...but desperate times call for desperate measures?!? It is just hard to pull the trigger.

My plan would be to sell/liquidate all equities and funds, and transfer everything to one account, perform the withdrawal, deposit into the local Credit Union and start shopping for farm land or some other hard asset(s) to purchase with 6 months.

Thanks and regards,
cpy911

[chad]

sell everything.

buy 1, 5, and 10 ounce bars or rounds of silver and gold. platinum and palladium if you like to gamble a bit. numismatic coins if you like to gamble more (SAEs and GAEs do not count as numismatic for the sake of this argument). put them in your house or on your property.

that's it.

[po boy]

Take a gander here (http://the-moneychanger.com/commandments.phtml) if your looking at PMs.

[Neuro]

Good idea cpy911. There is a penalty taking out from the pension funds afaik, but it is all soon to be worthless paper anyway, a 30% haircut on something that is essentially worthless for something tangible is a good deal IMO. Do it, before it is too late!

[Nitz]

sell everything.

buy 1, 5, and 10 ounce bars or rounds of silver and gold. platinum and palladium if you like to gamble a bit. numismatic coins if you like to gamble more (SAEs and GAEs do not count as numismatic for the sake of this argument). put them in your house or on your property.

that's it.

thats it huh? good luck

[chad]

thats it huh? good luck

yes, that's it. it's not hard or complicated. you don't need financial planner degrees, a subscription to money magazine, or podcasts of dave ramsey to understand it. it's how the whole history of the world handled money until very recently. i will be fine. ;)

[Serpo]

And time IS running out..............

[Nitz]

yes, that's it. it's not hard or complicated. you don't need financial planner degrees, a subscription to money magazine, or podcasts of dave ramsey to understand it. it's how the whole history of the world handled money until very recently. i will be fine. ;)


so, if someone with nothing in the way of shtf supplies asks you where to go with say 100k, you simply tell them pms? again, good luck;) land is a good investment, as are guns and ammo OP

[chad]

i missed the part in his question about land i guess. that's a valid point.

[TomD]

Don't put all your eggs in one basket. And my mouth is where my money is.

[Ponce]

Better to loose 10-20-30% by getting out than loosing 100% by staying in.........and thanks for my quote.

[steel_ag]

Just heard about a real estate hustle on Jay Taylor's radio archive. There's a webinar coming up on the 6th I'll be listening to for entertainment. realwealthnewtwork.com

[cpy911]

Better to loose 10-20-30% by getting out than loosing 100% by staying in.........and thanks for my quote.
Your quote inspired me. Actually, the more you think about it, the more deep the idea becomes!

I don't want all of my retirement to be in PM's as I have been heavy into PM's for the last several years, just want to diversify and always wanted some land. I actually want to buy some land close to where my dad owned some land many years ago...its is like a dream come true if I could swing it. I would "lose" my retirement, but gain land that I always wanted and could build and move to it someday if needed!

[Ponce]

OK CPY, at first paper money will be king because that's all that the "sheeps" knows OR HAVE.......they will be selling their expensive bike that they bought 10 years ago for $1,200 and will ask for only $100.00 (or less).........but in those ten years the dollar has gone down 50% so that they are only getting $50.00..........and.......food has gone up 50% so that the actual value of their paper is of only $25.00...............by the way, I don't assocciate the devalued dollar with the up price of food.

So, keep some paper money.........BRICKS OF NICKELS.......and all the loose change that you can get hold off............glad to see that you are "heavy" on PM..........about "moving", do it today for you will not be able to do it tomorrow or find the material to build your new house.

[General of Darkness]

I do agree with the PM sentiment, but I would recommend hard assets, i.e. LAND. With technology improving in solar, one could have a full blown house that doesn't need hard line infrastructure. Just sayin.

[LuckyStrike]

Speak with a tax consultant or financial advisor. I think you can make withdraws from an IRA for a "first time home purchase" but I think first time is defined by "haven't bought a home in the last x amount of years"

Be smart about the land purchase, there are always good deals, and always ripoffs. But if you could liquidate your IRA and buy a BOL that sounds like a sweet deal to me.

[keehah]

Sell the house, then use the money from selling the house to buy your land with a normal 25% down low rate locked in mortgage.

DO NOT buy the second place with your equities money then try to sell your current place for PM's!

Try to also have rental income from your new place to pay the mortgage. Jubilee and no renters may go together in the future (like a hedge). Regardless plan on selling some silver in the future for the mortgage, you'll be better off than buying less silver now to give more money to the bank.

[Book]

I just am frustrated by the heavy taxes (30%?) and penalties (10%) I will have to pay...but desperate times call for desperate measures?!?



I took that tax/penalty hit and bought $550 American Gold Eagles. Obviously some time ago.

:) Listen to your inner self and get out of paper now

[steel_ag]

Here's another real estate thread...
Source: http://danielamerman.com (via silverbearcafe.com)

Gold / Housing Ratio Falls To Historic Low
Daniel R. Amerman, CFA

In gold terms, an average single family home in the United States can now be purchased for only 18% of its pre-bubble price in 2001. The term "pre-bubble" merits emphasis: the average house can be purchased at an 82% discount (in ounces of gold) not from the peak real estate values of 2006, but the much lower home prices of 2001, before the real estate bubble began.

These numbers are based upon the Gold / Housing ratio, which is a measure of relative value between gold and real estate. When we take the $171,900 current median national price for an existing single family home (per the National Association of Realtors) and divide by the $1,785 price per ounce of gold as of November 15, 2011, we come up with a Gold / Housing ratio of 96, meaning it takes 96 ounces of gold to purchase an average single family home.

The graph below shows the Gold / Housing ratio for the entire modern era in the United States, from when gold investment was legalized on December 31, 1974 through current prices. This graph of relative value between the two investment classes shows how many ounces of gold it took each year to purchase an average single family home (adjusted for constant 2011 home size).

(Sources: For 1975-2010 the graph to the left uses annual average London price for gold as reported by Kitco, and the 2011 Q2 single family median home price (National Association of Realtors), modified by the annual average Freddie Mac House Price Index, which attempts to account for changes in average home size. 2011 numbers are November 15, gold, and Q2 house price (most recent available ) with the corresponding June house price index.)

In other words: let's net the dollars out, and go for direct comparisons.

People often buy gold and real estate as alternative investments, either because they are concerned about inflation, or they are seeking fundamental diversification from financial assets such as stocks and bonds.

However, while real estate and gold are each tangible assets and powerful inflation hedges - they don't tend to move together in real terms. When we adjust for inflation, both investments separately oscillate up and down around long term averages, and if you can buy gold "cheap" while real estate is relatively "expensive", then on an asset price basis over the long term, gold is likely to strongly outperform real estate as an investment and inflation hedge.

Conversely, when real estate is "cheap" and gold is "expensive" relative to their long-term averages - and each other - then it is real estate that is likely to powerfully outperform gold as an investment and inflation hedge over the long term, all else being equal.

But what exactly is "cheap" and what is "expensive"? Answering that question is where the Gold / Housing ratio graph above comes in.

The long-term average is represented by the blue line on the graph. Over the 37 years that gold has been a legal investment in the modern United States, it has taken an average of 289 ounces of gold to purchase an average single family home, meaning the current price of 96 ounces is only one third (33%) of the long term average.

As shown at "Point A", on an average annual basis, there was a previous modern ratio low of 99 ounces of gold to buy a house when gold reached its financial crisis peak valuation in 1980. Real estate was remarkably cheap relative to gold - and real estate investment would outperform gold by a huge margin over the 21 years to come.

"Point B" occurred in 2001, with the Gold / Housing ratio reaching a high of 543 ounces of gold being needed to buy a single family home. Gold was remarkably cheap relative to real estate - and gold asset prices would outperform real estate asset prices by a huge margin over the 10 years to come.

The current price of gold (as of November 15, 2011) is reflected in "Point C", which shows a Gold / Housing ratio of 96 ounces of gold being needed to buy the average single family home. This is only 18% of the 543 ounces required in 2001. Real estate is once again remarkably cheap, when compared to gold.

("Point C" is different from any of the other points in that it reflects currently available data for the price of gold, housing index and median single family housing price. It is therefore not an annual average ratio, and when in 2012 all the data eventually becomes available for 2011 the annual ratio will likely be lower, because gold spent most of the year at lower price levels. This means the annual average passing below 100 will likely not occur until 2012 - assuming current price levels remain, which is a big assumption in the current volatile times. Calculating a ratio that includes current market gold prices late in the year requires this necessary compromise, or else it becomes a lagging ratio with an annual update, with the full impact of the current price levels possibly not being available until early 2013.)
1980 & Gold As Investment

This next graph shows the average annual price of gold in inflation-adjusted (CPI-U) terms between when investing in gold bullion was legalized in the United States on December 31, 1974, and October 31st, 2011. The blue line is the average price of gold over that period, which is $730 in 2011 dollars. The yellow line is the average annual price of gold during each year (except for 2011, where it is the value as of November 15).

It is worthwhile to consider the situation in 1980. Inflation was soaring. Unemployment was high. An economic "malaise" gripped the nation, and pessimism about the future of the United States was rampant. The stock market was moving between flat and down. The real estate market was in terrible shape.

The one glittering exception was gold, which was soaring upwards in a spectacular bull market and reaching unprecedented levels - and which many people believed would only be a beginning point, as the dollar continued to fall and the economy continued to worsen. There was a new gospel of gold investing as an inflation hedge that would bring great wealth.

However, from that point forward - gold did not perform or meet expectations. In nominal dollar terms, the average price of gold fell from $613 in 1980 to $271 in 2001, a loss of 56%.





What is worse is that although the theory was that gold would be the perfect inflation hedge, in practice over the long term, gold failed spectacularly as an inflation hedge, at least from the perspective of gold purchased in the three peak years of 1979-1981. The inflation didn't stop after 1980 - the official rate of inflation was 10.5% in 1981, the 3rd highest rate of the modern era in the US - but gold investors still lost 32% in that first year after the peak, in inflation-adjusted terms. Gold gave up all of its gains relative to its long term modern average of $730 per ounce by 1985, five years after its peak.

Between 1980 and 2001, the time of the next Gold / Housing inflection point, the dollar would lose half of its value to inflation. Gold did not keep up, however, collapsing from $1,687 down to $347 per ounce (2011 dollars) over 21 years as it lost 80% of its value in inflation-adjusted terms.

(It should be noted that the $730 per ounce modern era average price is based on a relatively short 37 year period of time, which included a purely paper US dollar and two major crises, and is itself unusually high by long term standards. As an example of a longer term, multi-century measurement, gold averaged $458 an ounce (in 2009 dollars) between 1791 and 2009, although inflation measures grow increasingly unreliable the farther back in time one goes.)
1980 & Real Estate As Investment

The graph below shows the average price of a single family home in inflation-adjusted (CPI-U) terms from 1975 through the 2nd quarter of 2011, with a mean (average) price of $179,820 in 2011 dollars. As noted in the Freddie Mac index discussion at the end of the section, this is based upon an average size existing house for 2011, which is considerably larger than the average existing house in 1975, but this adjustment is necessary if we are to accurately compare "like to like" in tracking real estate values.

In the mind of the general public in 1980, real estate was a total "dog" of an investment and had been so for years. Some people were turning down promotions if they involved a move, because the raise associated with the promotion often wasn't high enough to offset the radically higher mortgage payments. Many people who would have ordinarily bought homes were renting instead, fearful of how much worse conditions might be when they tried to sell. The combination of recession, high unemployment and inflation-induced high interest rates had created a moribund real estate market, with low sales and greatly reduced new home construction.

These highly negative market conditions created a pricing situation in which real estate was only being valued at 34% of its long-term average value relative to gold, meaning real estate was extremely "cheap" in comparison - and ready to move the other way.





Indeed, from this base of near universal disdain came a remarkably healthy and sustained long-term environment for building wealth via buying investment real estate. Using single family homes as a proxy (investment real estate overlaps, but is not the same thing), in nominal or normal dollar terms, the average price for a single family home in the United States rose every year for the next 21 years from $60,408 to $147,102 (no inflation adjustment). This 144% increase occurred between points A & B in our Gold / Housing ratio graph, and therefore did not include any benefit from the housing bubble.

Inflation was the largest component of this rise, and unlike gold, housing performed as a powerful inflation hedge for the next two decades. Even after adjusting for inflation, during the same period that gold fell 80%, housing rose from $166,342 to $188,467, an increase of 13%. (The decline shown from 1980-1982 in the graph does not exist if we use nominal dollars, which is the norm, it only appears when we adjust for inflation.)

If we take the long term perspective of real estate investments generating steady performance, where cash flows increase every year as rental payments coming in steadily rise relative to mortgage payments going out, even as equity increases every year as overall property prices steadily rise while the mortgage slowly falls - then the years between the turning points of 1980 and 2001 were a wonderful time to be a long term real estate investor. Sure, there were dips and rises and crises as happens with almost any investment category over the long term, but the years between 1980 and 2001 were a great time to accumulate wealth as a long-term real estate investor.

Going back to the relationships underlying the Gold / Housing ratio, as each inflation hedge separately moved up and down around their long term averages, and real estate went from being relatively very cheap compared to gold, to being very expensive, then we would expect real estate to radically outperform gold over that time. Indeed, that is exactly what happened, and the 21 years (1980 - 2001) following the last time the ratio was at 99, real estate asset prices outperformed gold by 448%.

(The house price is calculated using the median national price of a single family home for the 2nd quarter of 2011 of $171,900, as reported by the National Association of Realtors. This price is then adjusted backwards using both an inflation index and a housing price index. The inflation index utilized is the Consumer Price Index (CPI-U), as reported by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The housing index used is the Freddie Mac House Price Index, rather than the more commonly used S&P / Case-Schiller Index. Like the S&P / Case-Schiller index, the Freddie Mac index uses a "pairs" methodology to account for changes in average house size and amenities over the years; however, the Freddie Mac index uses more widely distributed geographic data.)
Gold & Real Estate In 2001

By 2001, the relationship between gold and real estate had entirely reversed, as the Gold / Housing ratio reached a historic high of 543 ounces of gold to buy an average home.

Gold was a total dog of an investment. Real estate was hot. The overwhelming market sentiment, and what most financially savvy people believed, was that real estate was a far superior investment to gold.

It was precisely the overwhelming consensus of opinion among intelligent, knowledgeable investors, and some of the most respected financial experts in the nation, which created the situation where real estate was very "expensive" relative to gold.

In contrast, if we take the long term perspective of relative value, with real estate far above its historic average value relative to gold, meaning it took 543 ounces to buy a house in 2001, one would expect gold to then powerfully outperform housing - and that is exactly what happened over the following ten years, from 2001 to 2011.

Over the next ten years, gold would rise from $271 an ounce to $1,785 an ounce, even while real estate rose from about $147,102 to about $171,900 for a single family home. Adjusting for inflation, gold rose from $347 an ounce to $1,785, while housing fell from $188,467 to $171,900.

This serves as another confirmation of the central premise of the Gold / Housing ratio, which is that if you can buy an inflation hedge "cheap", then over the long term you are likely to widely outperform an inflation hedge bought "expensive", given that both gold and real estate move up and down around long-term average values.

There are also a couple of other fascinating features of the 2001 peak. The bottom price for gold in inflation-adjusted terms in the modern era occurred in 2001, when the Gold / Housing ratio peaked. The peak price for gold in inflation-adjusted terms in the modern era occurred in 1980, when the Gold / Housing ratio bottomed.

There is an exact correspondence when we look at the peak and bottom values for gold in inflation-adjusted dollar terms, and the peak and bottom values when we view gold in real estate terms.

It is also worthwhile to note that the Gold/Housing ratio did not call the peak in the real estate bubble, far from it. Instead, this ratio of relative values said that real estate was starting to get historically expensive compared to alternative investments right at the very time that the bubble was just starting to make an appearance. So the value of the ratio was not speculative timing within a bubble - but rather was a signal to long-term investors to sit out the bubble altogether.
Market Sentiment & Generational Buying Opportunities

If you had polled market participants and professional commentators in early 1980: the great majority would have said that only a complete fool would move out of gold and into real estate.

Just as, in 2001, likely the overwhelming sentiment of the market would have been that only a lunatic would get out of a powerful and rising real estate market to buy that ludicrous dog of an investment of precious metals.

From an old school contrarian's perspective, having the great majority of the market agree that buying a particular asset category is a completely boneheaded move, is in fact by itself: a big, bold and flashing "BUY" signal.

By definition - this has to be true. It is the general consensus that "only an idiot would do it" that creates the gross distortion of the relationships among long-term asset values, and which in turn creates the once-in-a-generation buying opportunity.

Indeed, following this strategy of moving directly against the overwhelming investor consensus in 1980 and 2001 would have meant dodging both market collapses, and instead owning the best investment for the 10-20 years ahead, acquired under the cheapest relative terms available over the previous 10-20 years. Which is a pretty good way of building wealth safely over the long term.

But when we're talking about potentially major commitments and our own hard-earned personal wealth being at risk - we want more than that. We want some outside assurances.

This is particularly true, because - AS IS ALWAYS THE CASE - there are some really good reasons for why most investors feel the way they do. There is the issue of the "shadow inventory" of homes which banks are not foreclosing upon, and what will happen to real estate prices when these homes do come on the market. There is the question of what would happen to real estate valuations if interest rates spike upwards even as unemployment rises, and what that could do to real estate prices.

It is in helping to get a handle on whether a genuine buying opportunity exists that the Gold / Housing ratio becomes useful.



The last time this situation existed, with very similar market sentiments and psychological conditions, we know that gold would later plunge for 20 years while real estate entered an extraordinarily valuable bull market.

When we compare the current situation to the last time the Gold / Housing ratio trends reversed, we can actually buy a single-family home in gold terms for only 18% of what it was available for in 2001, before the real estate bubble even began.

That 18% is an amazing, breathtaking number. As further covered in the Solutions Companion (for subscribers), we are indeed at a extraordinary point when it comes to relative valuations in the two largest contrarian asset markets.

There is little comfort in this long-term relationship when it comes to relative price movements in the next year; real estate has huge problems, and gold investment performance could still easily crush real estate in the short term.





The value comes when we define ourselves as long-term investors, and say we are not all that interested in speculating, in flipping, or risking our retirement capital on the premise that we will be able to successfully move in and out of investment categories on a frequent basis to adroitly outperform the averages.

The value of viewing things from a long-term perspective comes when we say we would rather not spend our retirement years hunched over a computer watching markets, or facing sleepless nights as we wrestle with a long series of individual short term decisions that will cumulatively determine whether our retirement lifestyle is one of prosperity or impoverishment.

When we move our focus beyond just 2012 and 2013, and say that 2017 is much more important, and that 2022 and beyond is what really matters, and we lift our vision up above the constant short term turmoil - that is when the opportunity becomes remarkable. When we look at the average relationship between gold and housing since gold was legalized in the United States on December 31, 1974, in gold terms we can now buy housing for about 33% of the long-term average.

That 33% is a remarkably cheap relative valuation. All we have to do is say that over the long term, two tangible investments end up trending back towards their average values in inflation-adjusted terms - just like they have done before, decade after decade over the centuries - and we have set up an extraordinary return advantage in relative terms.
A Powerful Case For Gold

There is another way of viewing contrarian investing, and that is not so much to buy low and sell high while moving against the common market sentiment, but rather finding fundamentally different alternatives to conventional investment strategies in the forms of stocks, bonds and paper currencies.

The other face of gold - and the most attractive face at this time - is as a crisis investment in the event of monetary and financial system collapse.

I've written extensively on the subject for a number of years now, and won't repeat it here, but with massive government deficits without end, there is a strong chance that the gold run could still just be getting started.

Soaring entitlements and a long term unemployment crisis combine to create still more pressures on a dollar, and these problems are exacerbated by the short term fix of trying to smooth things over by creating trillions of dollars out of the nothingness, while refusing to tackle the underlying issues.

And we certainly can't forget the still strong potential for a euro collapse at some point, as well as the fundamentally different global economic environment from 1980, most particularly with the powerful rise of Asia.
Reconciling The Opportunities

In my opinion, the best way to reconcile these two sides of contrarian investing - to bring together the need to buy low and sell high, while also meeting the need for liquid safety - is to say "both".

Gold and other precious metals have powerful advantages. There are some things they do that are better than any other investment alternative in the event of a currency or financial collapse. Having a significant holding of precious metals in a currency meltdown environment is simply irreplaceable.

Gold is not absolutely bound by 1980, and if the situation in 2012-2014 is far worse than the situation in the early 1980s, then we could see gold traveling an entirely different short term path, and it may still just be getting started compared to where it will go.

However, when we remove our gaze from the short-term, and we assume a return to history as we've seen over previous decades and centuries, then what the Gold / Housing ratio shows us is that gold is valued at an extremely high level, and real estate is remarkably cheap in comparison. To choose gold long-term while avoiding real estate long-term is to fight not only the averages but history itself - which by definition, has never worked.

So our solution is to not choose between the two assets but to purchase both kinds of contrarian assets with different objectives.

We choose precious metals to the extent that we are concerned about currency and financial system meltdown (although real estate has some powerful advantages as a precious metals complement in this situation as well).

If there isn't a currency meltdown - for someone attempting to build long-term value, then buying real estate at current prices is likely to be a far better source of long-term returns than gold, and likely to act as a much better inflation hedge.

The relative amount of assets devoted to each of these contrarian investments then depends on the individual investor's personal assessment of the likelihood of actual financial meltdown.

Daniel R. Amerman is a futurist and financial consultant with a unique approach to helping individuals and organizations prepare for and profit from an upcoming time of generational change and likely financial turmoil. He is a Chartered Financial Analyst and former investment banker, with MBA and BSBA degrees in finance and over 20 years of financial experience.



This website contains the ideas and opinions of the author. It is a conceptual exploration of financial and general economic principles. As with any financial discussion of the future, there cannot be any absolute certainty. What this article does not contain is specific investment, legal, tax or any other form of professional advice. If specific advice is needed, it should be sought from an appropriate professional. Any liability, responsibility or warranty for the results of the application of principles contained in the article, website, readings, videos, DVDs, books and related materials, either directly or indirectly, are expressly disclaimed by the author.

[cpy911]

steel_ag!!! Wow, nice article. I agree, PM's AND RE might be what I need now. (No stocks/bonds for me right now!)

[Twisted Titan]

Get Physical .............. I dont care what it is

Anything is a better investment then paper or digital instruments

[gunDriller]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/portugal-latest-country-go-mf-global-raids-pensions-funds-delay-fiscal-death

"However the 2010 budget was met by shifting three pension plans from Portugal Telecom on to the public social security system."

what if your pension fund went MF Global - or Portugal Telecom ?

that is, what if you went to your pension fund - and the money wasn't there ?

that is the bottom line of the US financial industry circa 2011 - if you ever could trust them, you can't trust them NOW.

there's many other examples besides MF Global. though that has generated some eloquent denouncements of corporate America.


it you educate yourself and realize that your pension fund may be managed by persons who have no commitment to making sure your money is THERE ... if they did have such a commitment, why doesn't your pension fund have at least 20% of its holdings in gold ? ... the penalty you pay when you pull money out of an IRA is related to paying taxes because the income wasn't taxed originally (theoretically).

the main thing is to have the money be there when you need it.


as far as what to put the funds into -
* precious metals
* land where you can live
* preps - food, fuel, home defense
* cash for days when silver is selling for $28 an ounce
... just some ideas.

[Half Sense]

I would say liquidate and take the hit. Bugout land sounds like a good idea. I would also keep some ready cash handy.

But even if you spent it on hookers and blow, at least it's out of the hands of the vultures.

[solid]

Speak with a tax consultant or financial advisor. I think you can make withdraws from an IRA for a "first time home purchase" but I think first time is defined by "haven't bought a home in the last x amount of years"

Be smart about the land purchase, there are always good deals, and always ripoffs. But if you could liquidate your IRA and buy a BOL that sounds like a sweet deal to me.

This is very good advise. Cpy, before you do anything, definitely check with a tax adviser. I did this years ago, withdrew from an IRA to put down on a home. I did not get hit with the withdraw penalties, or even the taxes. The taxes were absorbed in the deductions on interest the next tax return.

If you are planning on property, try and work the system to your advantage. Sounds like you well prepared with pm's, if you can buy land without the penalties, that's what I would do.

edit: Also Cpy, if you haven't watched this interview, it may help in your decision. Kyle Bass seems to think that property has for the most part bottomed out for the next few years.

It's a good interview.

http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?56452-Kyle-Bass-Explains-The-New-World-Order-Panel-Presentation

[johnlvs2run]

All paper investments to PMs.

Sell the house, then use the money from selling the house to buy your land with a normal 25% down low rate locked in mortgage.

DO NOT buy the second place with your equities money then try to sell your current place for PM's!

Try to also have rental income from your new place to pay the mortgage. Jubilee and no renters may go together in the future (like a hedge). Regardless plan on selling some silver in the future for the mortgage, you'll be better off than buying less silver now to give more money to the bank.

Interesting idea, counting on silver going up of course.

Why all the suggestions in the forum for getting land, with no structure?
Is this because the land always appreciates, over time, and structures always depreciate?

What do you do with the land then, build your own home the way you want it to be?

I want to take all funds out of IRA and put it into land-property, but have not decided what type.
Mostly I want protection from inflation and taxes, to live in my own place where I want, and have
the means to live independently when I'm 80-85 if I get that far.

I've thought about rental property but am not sure the hassle is worth it.

The thing about pm's is they are fine for keeping up with inflation, but they don't get a return on investment.
I see them as a part of the puzzle but not the whole set. Suggestions/comments appreciated.

[zap]

Here is what the attorney and accountant told me, anytime you can get total control of your money, pay the taxes and get the control....


good luck !

[Dogman]

Here is what the attorney and accountant told me, anytime you can get total control of your money, pay the taxes and get the control....
I finally got his 403(b) away from the union, I rolled the whole thing over into a 3 month IRA, , So this yr I took 23,500 and in Mar. another 23,500 which just gets added my wages, since I have my own business, (oh also I don't get the 10% penalty) ,(cause I am a widow) I have tried not to pay myself to much this year and have claimed 0 on my w-4, so they took lots outta my check, so I have got almost half outta their hands (government).

good luck !

Only money from another thread, stash it so deep and secure but not so deep that it can not keep you warm.

Only money,,, LoL. think more than next month or year..


Being a hard on your ass woman...

In the long run it will be better for you and the yapper..

[Twisted Titan]

Here is what the attorney and accountant told me, anytime you can get total control of your money, pay the taxes and get the control....
I finally got his 403(b) away from the union, I rolled the whole thing over into a 3 month IRA, , So this yr I took 23,500 and in Mar. another 23,500 which just gets added my wages, since I have my own business, (oh also I don't get the 10% penalty) ,(cause I am a widow) I have tried not to pay myself to much this year and have claimed 0 on my w-4, so they took lots outta my check, so I have got almost half outta their hands (government).

good luck !



I will kindly pilfer than line if you dont mind Madame Zap