The Best Small Caliber

[palani]

Hunters, take note of this....

At a 'best pistol for self defense forum', the question came up: what is the smallest caliber you trust to protect yourself...

My personal favorite bear defense gun has always been a Beretta Jetfire in .22 short! I've found over the years when hiking in bear country I never leave without it in my pocket. Of course we all know the first rule when hiking in the wilderness is to use the "Buddy System". For those of you who may be unfamiliar with this it means you NEVER hike alone, you bring a friend or companion, even an in-law, that way if something happens there is someone to go get help. I remember one time hiking with my brother-in-law in Alaska. Out of nowhere came this huge Grizzly and man was she MAD! We must have been near one of her cubs. Any way if I had not had my little jetfire I am sure I would not be here today.That's right, one shot to my brother-in-law's knee cap and I was able to escape by just walking at a brisk pace. That's one of the best pistols in my safe!

[sirgonzo420]

Lol. Saw the ending coming, but still chuckle-worthy.

[palani]

Lol. Saw the ending coming, but still chuckle-worthy.

A joke but it comes close to a legal maxim that "necessity imports privilege".

An explanation that accompanies this maxim states that if you were on a ship and it sunk and only you and one other survivor escaped and there was only one plank capable of saving one person you were legally entitled to kill the other guy in the name of necessity. [Note I used legally here ... lawfully you are prohibited from killing anyone at all times].

This maxim is the one used most frequently by government to justify their excesses.

[midnight rambler]

lawfully you are prohibited from killing anyone at all timesNot true, there's such a thing as justifiable homicide which is perfectly lawful - no bs.

LAWFULLY, people are prohibited from murdering anyone else at all times.

[palani]

Not true, there's such a thing as justifiable homicide which is perfectly lawful - no bs.

LAWFULLY, people are prohibited from murdering anyone else at all times.

Sorry. Murder is a word of art and subject to definition. Go back to what is chiseled on stone and you will find

Exodus 20:1-17 .... #13 Thou shalt not kill.

Your source of Law might be different.

[midnight rambler]

Apparently you're not getting it.

"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." -- The Dalai Lama, May 15, 2001, at the "Educating Heart Summit" in Portland, Oregon

"Unfortunately, it happens that the need to render the aggressor incapable of causing harm sometimes involves taking his life. In this case, the fatal outcome is attributable to the aggressor whose actions brought it about, even though he may not be morally responsible because of a lack of the use of reason." -- Pope John Paul II, EVANGELIUM VITAE, 1995

I've been in a circumstance where I was compelled to defend myself with deadly force. Had I not done so I would surely not have survived the incident. I made EVERY attempt to kill the varmint. I got to appear before a grand jury to press for an indictment against the POS, running the risk of being indicted myself (for 'attempted murder' or at least 'terroristic threat' [the PD's version of events]). The result was the varmint was indicted and not me (the members of that grand jury 'got it'). The county Sheriff Doyne Bailey told me later as he shook his head, "Too bad you missed (blowing his head clean off with 00 buck at a distance of seven yards), you'd have done a service to the community." (since he knew the nature of the varmint in question)

"Some people don't deserve to live." --former Texas DPS rangemaster and pistol instructor Reeves Junket

[palani]

Apparently you're not getting it.

"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." -- The Dalai Lama, May 15, 2001, at the "Educating Heart Summit" in Portland, Oregon

"Unfortunately, it happens that the need to render the aggressor incapable of causing harm sometimes involves taking his life. In this case, the fatal outcome is attributable to the aggressor whose actions brought it about, even though he may not be morally responsible because of a lack of the use of reason." -- Pope John Paul II, EVANGELIUM VITAE, 1995

I've been in a circumstance where I was compelled to defend myself with deadly force. Had I not done so I would surely not have survived the incident. I made EVERY attempt to kill the varmint. I got to appear before a grand jury to press for an indictment against the POS, running the risk of being indicted myself (for 'attempted murder' or at least 'terroristic threat' [the PD's version of events]). The result was the varmint was indicted and not me (the members of that grand jury 'got it'). The county Sheriff Doyne Bailey told me later as he shook his head, "Too bad you missed (blowing his head clean off with 00 buck), you'd have done a service to the community." (since he knew the nature of the varmint in question)

"Some people don't deserve to live." --former Texas DPS rangemaster and pistol instructor Reeves Junket

The prohibition on killing is against Man formed in the image of God. Reason would suggest that there are imposters in abundance believing they are Human (color of Man) acting as Man. I would suggest that you can use Man's rules (legally) to murder these types occasionally. Yet the prohibition against killing Man is upheld in such an instance.

[midnight rambler]

The prohibition on killing is against Man formed in the image of God. Reason would suggest that there are imposters in abundance believing they are Human (color of Man) acting as Man. I would suggest that you can use Man's rules (legally) to murder these types occasionally. Yet the prohibition against killing Man is upheld in such an instance.

So...if and when some varmint makes a move to take your life, you're just going to stand down and let 'em?? You put no stock in the God-given right of self-preservation?? ???

ETA: BTW, there are numerous instances in the Bible where God told someone to go out and kill someone else (including obvious non-combatants), and of course they did.

[osoab]

The prohibition on killing is against Man formed in the image of God. Reason would suggest that there are imposters in abundance believing they are Human (color of Man) acting as Man. I would suggest that you can use Man's rules (legally) to murder these types occasionally. Yet the prohibition against killing Man is upheld in such an instance.


I thought the jist was to shoot them in the knees and let the bears eat the evidence?

[EE_]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsVCHE7ayPE

[Ponce]

.22 with a hush puppy is my weapon of choice ........but now as old as I am? a freaking M-79 granade louncher with 100 rounds and with a nuke in reserve.

[Half Sense]

That story just shows that a .22 Short is effective enough to cripple somebody so you can get away.

[midnight rambler]

That story just shows that a .22 Short is effective enough to cripple somebody so you can get away.

Yeah, but if the party you just pissed off with a .22 short is armed a decent centerfire gun (or even a high capacity semi-auto .22) you've still got a serious problem while you're trying to 'get away'.

[Ponce]

In war is ok to just shoot the enemy to disabled him and the reason for this is that it would take three more soldiers to take care of him and that would be like wounding four enemies and putting out of comission..........but otherwise keep on shooting till they are dead because otherwise he might just be coming after you once again......besides, in court you would have a better chance.

[Hermie]

Sorry. Murder is a word of art and subject to definition. Go back to what is chiseled on stone and you will find

Exodus 20:1-17 .... #13 Thou shalt not kill.

Your source of Law might be different.

The correct translation of that is, "Thou shalt not do murder."

All kinds of reasons and times to kill.

[palani]

So...if and when some varmint makes a move to take your life, you're just going to stand down and let 'em??
Not at all. I just told you that Man is not Human. If you discover an action that places anyone in the Human category absolutely then by all means take whatever action you need to protect yourself.

I would submit that the ACTION of attempted murder is enough to determine the category of your assailant. Man is prohibited from committing such an act so you must be face to face with Human.

A good maxim to remember is: Things that are similar are not the same.

[JDRock]

The correct translation of that is, "Thou shalt not do murder."

All kinds of reasons and times to kill.
hell, hermie IMMEDIATELY after recieving that command his first words were " arm yourselves and slay everyman his brother!"