Utah man tries to pay taxes with silver

[madfranks]

Link Here (http://washingtonexaminer.com/news/2011/12/utah-man-wants-pay-taxes-silver/1971656)

A Utah man who wants to pay his taxes with silver coins has been rebuffed by state and county officials who claim it's impractical to accept the precious metals despite a state law making them legal tender.
Earlier this year, Utah became the first state in the country to legalize gold and silver coins as currency. But because the law doesn't require businesses to accept the metals, most government agencies and private merchants have not embraced the alternative method.
Orem resident Carlton Bowen told The Salt Lake Tribune he learned that the hard way when Utah County wouldn't let him cover his property tax with silver. The state has also told him they will not accept silver.
Some businesses have accepted silver from Bowen, he said, and he has made charitable donations with the coins, but he wants the state to follow its own law.
"When is Utah going to accept its own legal tender?" Bowen said.
Doing so would be impractical, Utah State Treasurer Richard Ellis said, adding that it could potentially violate another state law that prohibits agencies from holding gold as an asset because of the volatility of the commodity.
There is also ample room for fraud, Ellis said.
"I'm very concerned that this has potential for money laundering and other types of illegal activities. . Nobody's fleshed out all these details, and they want to have as little regulation and oversight as possible," Ellis said. "In my mind there's still no practical way of making this happen."
The law, however, is unlikely to change in the near future. Legislators have repeatedly said it was mostly passed as a protest against the Federal Reserve's monetary policy.
"It doesn't allow much," said state Senate Majority Leader Scott Jenkins, R-Plain City. "But the concept behind it is powerful. Little by little our currency is being devalued. . It's a little pushback on one hand, but on the other, maybe it will make us look at the value of our currency and strengthen it."

[madfranks]

The state has also told him they will not accept silver.

I can't help but think of this, "No State shall make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts". US Constitution, Article 1, section 10.

[Ares]

I can't help but think of this, "No State shall make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts". US Constitution, Article 1, section 10.

More proof to show you that Utah is a federal district does it not?

[po boy]

I can't help but think of this, "No State shall make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts". US Constitution, Article 1, section 10.


Even the US code title31 sec. 5103 says silver coins are legal tender

(f) Silver Coins.—
(1) Sale price.— The Secretary shall sell the coins minted under subsection (e) to the public at a price equal to the market value of the bullion at the time of sale, plus the cost of minting, marketing, and distributing such coins (including labor, materials, dies, use of machinery, and promotional and overhead expenses).
(2) Bulk sales.— The Secretary shall make bulk sales of the coins minted under subsection (e) at a reasonable discount.
(3) Numismatic items.— For purposes of section 5132 (a)(1) of this title, all coins minted under subsection (e) shall be considered to be numismatic items.
(g) For purposes of section 5132 (a)(1) of this title, all coins minted under subsection (e) of this section shall be considered to be numismatic items.
(h) The coins issued under this title shall be legal tender as provided in section 5103 of this title.

[vacuum]

So he doesn't have to pay if they won't accept his money? (yeah right)

[Dogman]

Metal has been out of their system, they just can not handle it. Its like throwing boulders into the gear works. Hell even most banks can not really handle it, with the spot price a moving target. I can see that it is legal, but today most business and gov systems would go nuts, because I think there is no procedure in place to handle gold/silver as currency, and one big sticker is I think is the face price vs the real value of the metal. They would love you to pay using face (who wouldn't) value.

In their minds they just can not make the jump. IMO !

[Blink]

Don't see what the problem is, if you wanted to pay me silver (or gold), I'd take it, hell, I wouldn't even have to think about it. These people must be retarded.......

[JJ.G0ldD0t]

Doing so would be impractical, Utah State Treasurer Richard Ellis said, adding that it could potentially violate another state law that prohibits agencies from holding gold as an asset because of the volatility of the commodity

Cm on Utah. Is it a commodity or money? Make up your mind.

[Ponce]

"The law is nothing more than a tool of convinience, for those who hold the gun"........"The law can be what ever they want, but only when it is in their favor"......"Without laws there would be chaos, but with laws there can only be war".

The only real law that there really exist is the one that will tell you that you are right or wrong........not according to a judge, but according to common sense.

[Shami-Amourae]

Wow look at these statist commenters:
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/52979266-90/coin-coins-currency-dollar.html.csp?page=1#disqus_thread
...We are so fucked if the public is this hostile to the idea of hard money. It always amazes me how hard statists will fight people who are trying to free/empower them. They wallow in their slavery, it's sickening.

[madfranks]

Earlier this year, Utah became the first state in the country to legalize gold and silver coins as currency.

Another half-truth; really Utah has simply re-introduced gold and silver as currency after gold was criminalized in 1933 and silver was removed in 1965. People who don't know this country's monetary history who read this will think that we've always been on a paper standard and Utah is doing something radical and unheard of, when really it's only been 40 years or so since the silver was removed.

[Awoke]

OK hang on: WhyTF would this guy want to hand silver over to the state for taxes?

I would much rather part with fiat than give those pricks my intrinsically valuable silver.

[muffin]

OK hang on: WhyTF would this guy want to hand silver over to the state for taxes?

I would much rather part with fiat than give those pricks my intrinsically valuable silver.
^^This was my first thought.....


So he doesn't have to pay if they won't accept his money? (yeah right)
^^And this was my second......

[chad]

i guess i might. i take my next year's property tax money every january, but 100 ounces of ag with it, and then hold it until the following december. i then sell it & pay my taes. i usually end up getting to keep a portion of the 100 ounces i bought as it appreciated during the year. no difference between doing what i do or just going in and giving them the metal.

[Ponce]

You guys try to fix the tax problem instead of getting rid of the problem ............ if the people were to unite as one and say NO MORE TAXES that then would be the end of it.........."If you think that you cannot do it, then you cannot do it"

[cpy911]

i guess i might. i take my next year's property tax money every january, but 100 ounces of ag with it, and then hold it until the following december. i then sell it & pay my taes. i usually end up getting to keep a portion of the 100 ounces i bought as it appreciated during the year. no difference between doing what i do or just going in and giving them the metal.

Do you pay short term capital gains tax on your increase? If so are you making much? Any legal way around the short term cap gains tax? If I sold to a guy on Craiglsit how would .gov know? How could I be taxed on something that just held value? I just don't get the whole FUBAR tax thing!

[chad]

i buy it with cash, my dealer pays for me for it in cash. the village tax office takes cash, so i never even have to put it in the bank. i do declare it on my taxes, however. i have enough problems without trying to scam the irs and save a few dollars. i do like the whole not have to put in the bank angle, though. i think anything over a few thousand triggers some irs audit business, even if you are being above board.

[cpy911]

i buy it with cash, my dealer pays for me for it in cash. the village tax office takes cash, so i never even have to put it in the bank. i do declare it on my taxes, however. i have enough problems without trying to scam the irs and save a few dollars. i do like the whole not have to put in the bank angle, though. i think anything over a few thousand triggers some irs audit business, even if you are being above board.

So, if you hold your silver for a year, you are taxed at a 28% collectible rate plus the premiums in and out?

[chad]

since it's held less than a year, it's considered a short term capital gains tax, thus it is taxed at my regular income tax rate. for me, this is 28%. paying with the metal itself would actually be beneficial, because then i wouldn't even have to pay the 28%, they'd just accept it as payment. then i could hang on to even more of the 100 ounces i bought.