"the new shotgun craze" lol

[midnight rambler]

A magazine fed 12 ga. that looks like an AR, a local dealer is calling it "the new shotgun craze". What a pathetic joke.

http://armsofamerica.com/akdalmka191912gashotgun.aspx

[LuckyStrike]

Wanna be Saiga.

[midnight rambler]

At least with the Saiga you can get a 20 or 25 round drum, this thing is limited to mags with 5 rounds.

[mightymanx]

At least with the Saiga you can get a 20 or 25 round drum, this thing is limited to mags with 5 rounds.


Saiga was limited like that until the aftermarket took off.

I am open minded to it.

I want to see one firsthand. I have had a Saiga for a looong time (back before they were popular and people said the exact same shit) and this thing fixes lots of things I have never liked about the Saiga like the magwell.

Rock and lock is fine if you have nothing on the foregrip but it sucks balls if you do.

I did the AR-15 magwell mod to my Saiga and it is much better mag change but it is a royal pain in the ass to hand fit every mag that I buy and I am limited to AGP now.

The Saiga has lots of Tacticool gizmos that make it look bad ass but are totaly fucking worthless in reality for insatnace where do you store mutiple "folgers cans" for reloads on your LBE? How do you do a reload in a timely manner with a folgers can?

This new shotgun adresses many of these things and I would have comonality of control groups for all my "working rifles" (CAR 15 AR-10 and this new shotgun) but like I opened with I want to see one in person to see if it is worth a shit.

[Dogman]

A magazine fed 12 ga. that looks like an AR, a local dealer is calling it "the new shotgun craze". What a pathetic joke.

http://armsofamerica.com/akdalmka191912gashotgun.aspx


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCwmJh2xoSc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCwmJh2xoSc

[midnight rambler]

Any detachable magazine shotgun is not now, nor will ever be, a true tactical shotgun.

[Awoke]

I disagree. Box magazines are a faster reload than single-feed tube magazines, and that to me says "Tactical".

[Glass]

I liked the xrail idea.

http://www.xrailbyrci.com/

[Awoke]

Good idea, but it would add a LOT of weight to the end of a shotgun if it was fully loaded with lead shot, etc.

[JJ.G0ldD0t]

I liked the xrail idea.

http://www.xrailbyrci.com/

Cool idea - but it looks front end heavy- Like hanging a box of shotgun shells off the barrel

[Awoke]

Is there an echo in here?

;D

[Glass]

Or you could do this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3E5wtmWCk4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3E5wtmWCk4

[EE_]

Or you could do this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3E5wtmWCk4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3E5wtmWCk4

Nice, I like the arm band too.
Those speed strippers aren't cheap $24 each, $48 for the good one
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2394156343/california-competition-works-shell-caddy-tactical-shotshell-ammunition-carrier-12-gauge-4-round-2-3-4-and-3-shells-polymer?cm_vc=S016ID2996116551

The arm band seems reasonable
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/911146/california-competition-works-arm-band-shotshell-ammunition-carrier-12-gauge-8-round-nylon-black

[EE_]

Anyone looked into custom firearm finishes?

This looks like the way to go. I wouldn't mind trying it on a couple of mine.
http://www.cerakoteguncoatings.com/finishes/

Cerakote Gen II Stealth for night vision camofuflage
http://www.nicindustries.com/cerakote_video.php

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NovNOF_Qns

[Awoke]

Cerakote Gen II Stealth for night vision camofuflage
http://www.nicindustries.com/cerakote_video.php


Totally awesome.

[EE_]

Totally awesome.

Did you check out all the galleries? Cool looking stuff
http://www.cerakoteguncoatings.com/gallery/

I did notice that the Gen II Stealth is restricted to law enforcement and militery...damn!

I'm thinking about trying this on a Glock 19 slide, maybe in Coyote tan?
A cheap sandblaster gun can be had for $20 and a decent airbrush for $100 or less.
Cerakote is $35. I have a couple compressors.

This airbrush should do the job. I'll bake it in the oven.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4FBHkKqn3Q

[midnight rambler]

I disagree. Box magazines are a faster reload than single-feed tube magazines, and that to me says "Tactical".

That attitude demonstrates an inexcusable failure to exercise intelligence or sound judgment.

You're apparently suffering from the the 'non-thinking' approach to tactical shotgun reloads. When most tube mag semi-auto shotguns fire the last round the bcg locks open; on a box mag fed shotgun such as a Saiga fires the last round the bcg does not lock back giving an indication of 'last shot fired' so one is left with a closed action on an empty chamber - never a good place to be (have no idea about the shotgun in the OP, but considering it's a cheapie I would think it's like the Saiga). With the bcg locked back it's a lighting fast to drop in a round in the ejection port and let the bcg slam it home. The advantage that tube magazines have over detachable box magazines is that one can keep a tube magazine topped off (or close to topped off) on the fly, and *never* be caught with an empty magazine - yes this definitely includes 5 round tube magazines if one is smart/prudent/deliberate in conducting their fire and maneuver tactics. With a detachable box magazine one is extremely limited in tactics 'cause not only does one have to keep closer tabs on how many rounds one has left in the mag, it's virtually impossible to change up rounds on the fly, e.g. from #4 buck to 000 buck or slugs. And another thing most fail to consider, where on your kit are you going to put all those very bulky hi-cap box shotgun magazines?? ??? With a tube mag shotgun one can throw on two 12 ga bandoleers and have 100+ rounds on tap (and four bandoleers would be 200+ rounds) - where are you going to put ten 10 round or twelve 8 round box magazines and not have them getting in the way??

IMO, anyone who thinks there's any advantage* to box magazines over tube magazines on a shotgun is unclear on the concept of fire and maneuver tactics under REAL stressfire circumstances.

*the only situations where I can see that having a detachable magazine is an advantage is when utilizing a 20 round drum on a Saiga in a fixed position as part of a fire team

[LuckyStrike]

How about this for a tactical shotgun?

http://www.keltecweapons.com/news/preview-kel-tec-shotgun-ksg

[midnight rambler]

How about this for a tactical shotgun?

http://www.keltecweapons.com/news/preview-kel-tec-shotgun-ksg

Although it has a 3" chamber, the action won't handle 3" rounds from the magazines - something I see as downside when buying a 'new' shotgun that costs $800+. I see it as a gimmick, and considering the price one could get a hi-cap Mossy semi-auto for a couple of hundred less or a very suitable FN SLP for a couple of hundred more. I'm not a Kel-Tec fan due to their poor track record regarding quality (their 'lifetime warranty' notwithstanding).

[LuckyStrike]

Although it has a 3" chamber, the action won't handle 3" rounds from the magazines - something I see as downside when buying a 'new' shotgun that costs $800+. I see it as a gimmick, and considering the price one could get a hi-cap Mossy semi-auto for a couple of hundred less or a very suitable FN SLP for a couple of hundred more. I'm not a Kel-Tec fan due to their poor track record regarding quality (their 'lifetime warranty' notwithstanding).

I give Kel Tec kudos for being innovative in design throughout their range, ultimately though gun makers rise or fall on their quality regardless of how innovative they may be.

[SWRichmond]

You guys ain't gonna like this.

I can't really think of any "tactical" situation where my weapon of choice would be a shotgun, where I would have to choose a weapon going into situation unknown. Not enough shots, not enough range, not enough penetrating power. An all-around bad choice IMO.

[LuckyStrike]

You guys ain't gonna like this.

I can't really think of any "tactical" situation where my weapon of choice would be a shotgun, where I would have to choose a weapon going into situation unknown. Not enough shots, not enough range, not enough penetrating power. An all-around bad choice IMO.

I basically agree, although in my Saiga I can have 3" 00 (or slugs) staggered with 2 3/4 number 8 and variations in between, so it does give you some diversity for tactical reasons there. But it would not be my first choice for CQB (nor would any shotgun, although if I was going in with a team I would want someone to have one) Of course the military and swat have a variety of loads unavailable to us which I'm sure would increase it's usefulness.

[midnight rambler]

I disagree. Box magazines are a faster reload than single-feed tube magazines, and that to me says "Tactical".

You can a reload with a detachable box magazine in less than 5 seconds?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc62hQe0IM4&feature=player_embedded

[mightymanx]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llTAUnwYhCE

[midnight rambler]

You guys STILL haven't addressed how you carry all those BIG ASS box magazines on your kit. lol

And fwiw, all those 'fastest reloading EVER' videos (including the one I posted) don't account for diddley-squat when under stressfire on the 2-way range in the real world.

[mightymanx]

On your body armor where do you carry any mag?

[midnight rambler]

On your body armor where do you carry any mag?

Exactly, which is why bandoleers work so well with tube magazines. Carrying 200+ rounds in bandoleers, np.

[Awoke]

You can a reload with a detachable box magazine in less than 5 seconds?


I have never really timed myself with anything other than AR's, because my shotgun is a pump.
But I can certainly swap a mag in an AR faster than I can refill my shotgun's tube mag, no question.
I think it's safe to assume that I would be able to swap out a mag in a mag fed shotgun faster than I can refill a tube mag as well.

[midnight rambler]

I have never really timed myself with anything other than AR's, because my shotgun is a pump.
But I can certainly swap a mag in an AR faster than I can refill my shotgun's tube mag, no question.
I think it's safe to assume that I would be able to swap out a mag in a mag fed shotgun faster than I can refill a tube mag as well.

Ever been on the two way range?

[Awoke]

Rambler, you can talk all the talk about two-way range bullshit that you want, but a fucking magswap is faster than a tube reload any day of the week. A 5 year old would know that if he was taught how to safely handle firearms.

If my 5 second magswap turned into 10 seconds under fire, my 15 second tube load could turn into 30 under fire.
That's why practice makes perfect. Muscle memory and repetition.

[Awoke]

Just for the record, I wasn't trying to be a prick. I was just short on patience at the time of posting. No offense.

[JJ.G0ldD0t]

Just for the record, I wasn't trying to be a prick. I was just short on patience at the time of posting. No offense.

I'm not sure it's possible for MR to get offended

lol

[Blink]

Personally, I'd love to have one of these.........


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4ebtj1jR7c

[mightymanx]

Personally, I'd love to have one of these.........



I want a unlimited supply of the miny 12 guage grenades as well.

[midnight rambler]

Rambler, you can talk all the talk about two-way range bullshit that you want, but a fucking magswap is faster than a tube reload any day of the week. A 5 year old would know that if he was taught how to safely handle firearms.

If my 5 second magswap turned into 10 seconds under fire, my 15 second tube load could turn into 30 under fire.
That's why practice makes perfect. Muscle memory and repetition.

You still haven't addressed where you're going to pack all those fucking bulky ass magazines. lol I can throw on four bandoleers quickly for a total of at least 200 rounds of ASSORTED ammo and then I'm ready for a prolonged round of shoot and scoot - should the need arise. This comes from actual real world experience/associating with actual combat veterans who know what it's like to experience all the stress of the two-way range. I'm amused by those who think that bulky ass 8 or 10 round shotgun mags give them some sort of advantage in the real world of fire and maneuver - that's cowboys and injuns fantasy stuff.

[midnight rambler]

Personally, I'd love to have one of these.........


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4ebtj1jR7c


I want a unlimited supply of the miny 12 guage grenades as well.

I hear the US military is looking for 'a few good men' as cannon fodder - surely they will furnish you with such toys (which is the ONLY way you're going to get to handle one of those AA-12s [which is in reality inferior to the Saiga 12 with a 20 round drum in select fire imo] or those mini grenades for the 12 ga.]).

[mightymanx]

I hear the US military is looking for 'a few good men' as cannon fodder - surely they will furnish you with such toys (which is the ONLY way you're going to get to handle one of those AA-12s [which is in reality inferior to the Saiga 12 with a 20 round drum in select fire imo] or those mini grenades for the 12 ga.]).


I have played with lots of cool stuff in my 20 years of military service as a weapons guy.

[midnight rambler]

I have played with lots of cool stuff in my 20 years of military service as a weapons guy.

I bet you did.

I got to play with lots of cool vintage machineguns and subguns while hanging out with Dolf Goldsmith, and I didn't have to enlist into anything except reloading duty. 8)

As for that AA-12 FA shotgun, no one outside 'authorized channels' is going to touch that thing, and I cannot stand suckups to the beast.

[Awoke]

I'm amused by those who think that bulky ass 8 or 10 round shotgun mags give them some sort of advantage in the real world of fire and maneuver - that's cowboys and injuns fantasy stuff.

I'm amused by elitists that think they are going to live long enough to get through 200 rounds on a bandoleer if they were caught in a firefight with NWO pigs that are tactically trained.