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beefsteak
8th December 2011, 01:29 PM
MF Global and the great Wall St re-hypothecation scandal

12/7/2011 COMMENTS (0)

By Christopher Elias (UK)
(Business Law Currents)
A legal loophole in international brokerage regulations means that few, if any, clients of MF Global (http://currents.westlawbusiness.com/Redirect.aspx?cid=74920079999999&src=PE111206005&url=http://www.westlawbusiness.com/find/default.wl?rs=ZDNB0208&findtype=bcf&db=WLB-CMPNYBCSRBD&cite=CIK%280001401106%29&vr=2.0&mt=WLBDueDiligence&sp=) are likely to get their money back. Although details of the drama (http://newsandinsight.thomsonreuters.com/Legal/Securities/SearchResults.aspx?folder_id=0&search_text=%22MF+Global%22) are still unfolding, it appears that MF Global and some of its Wall Street counterparts have been actively and aggressively circumventing U.S. securities rules at the expense (quite literally) of their clients.

MF Global's bankruptcy revelations concerning missing client money suggest that funds were not inadvertently misplaced or gobbled up in MF’s dying hours, but were instead appropriated as part of a mass Wall St manipulation of brokerage rules that allowed for the wholesale acquisition and sale of client funds through re-hypothecation. A loophole appears to have allowed MF Global, and many others, to use its own clients’ funds to finance an enormous $6.2 billion Eurozone repo bet.

If anyone thought that you couldn’t have your cake and eat it too in the world of finance, MF Global shows how you can have your cake, eat it, eat someone else’s cake and then let your clients pick up the bill. Hard cheese for many as their dough goes missing.

FINDING FUNDS
Current estimates for the shortfall in MF Global customer funds have now reached $1.2 billion as revelations break that the use of client money appears widespread. Up until now the assumption has been that the funds missing had been misappropriated by MF Global as it desperately sought to avoid bankruptcy.

Sadly, the truth is likely to be that MF Global took advantage of an asymmetry in brokerage borrowing rules that allow firms to legally use client money to buy assets in their own name - a legal loophole that may mean that MF Global clients never get their moleney back.

REPO RECAP
First a quick recap. By now, the story of MF Global’s demise is strikingly familiar. MF plowed money into an off-balance-sheet maneuver known as a repo, or sale and repurchase agreement. A repo involves a firm borrowing money and putting up assets as collateral, assets it promises to repurchase later. Repos are a common way for firms to generate money but are not normally off-balance sheet and are instead treated as “financing” under accountancy rules.

MF Global used a version of an off-balance-sheet repo called a "repo-to-maturity." The repo-to-maturity involved borrowing billions of dollars backed by huge sums of sovereign debt, all of which was due to expire at the same time as the loan itself. With the collateral and the loans becoming due simultaneously, MF Global was entitled to treat the transaction as a “sale” under U.S. GAAP. This allowed the firm to move $16.5 billion off its balance sheet, most of it debt from Italy, Spain, Belgium, Portugal and Ireland.
Backed by the European Financial Stability Facility (EFSF), it was a clever bet (at least in theory) that certain Eurozone bonds would remain default free whilst yields would continue to grow. Ultimately, however, it proved to be MF Global’s downfall as margin calls and its high level of leverage sucked out capital from the firm.

For more information on the repo used by MF Global please see Business Law Currents MF Global – Slayed by the Grim Repo? (http://currents.westlawbusiness.com/Redirect.aspx?RS=ZDNB0209&url=http://currents.westlawbusiness.com/Article.aspx?id=3a6afdcc-59b3-46f4-9fb1-c126ab1f0f2a&cid=&src=&cid=74920079999999&src=PE111206005&sp=)

Puzzling many, though, were the huge sums involved. How was MF Global able to “lose” $1.2 billion of its clients’ money and acquire a sovereign debt position of $6.3 billion – a position more than five times the firm’s book value, or net worth? The answer it seems lies in its exploitation of a loophole between UK and U.S. brokerage rules on the use of clients funds known as “re-hypothecation.”


RE-HYPOTHECATION
By way of background, hypothecation is when a borrower pledges collateral to secure a debt. The borrower retains ownership of the collateral but is “hypothetically” controlled by the creditor, who has a right to seize possession if the borrower defaults.

In the U.S., this legal right takes the form of a lien and in the UK generally in the form of a legal charge. A simple example of a hypothecation is a mortgage, in which a borrower legally owns the home, but the bank holds a right to take possession of the property if the borrower should default.

In investment banking, assets deposited with a broker will be hypothecated such that a broker may sell securities if an investor fails to keep up credit payments or if the securities drop in value and the investor fails to respond to a margin call (a request for more capital).

Re-hypothecation occurs when a bank or broker re-uses collateral posted by clients, such as hedge funds, to back the broker’s own trades and borrowings. The practice of re-hypothecation runs into the trillions of dollars and is perfectly legal.

It is justified by brokers on the basis that it is a capital efficient way of financing their operations much to the chagrin of hedge funds.

U.S. RULES
Under the U.S. Federal Reserve Board's Regulation T and SEC Rule 15c3-3, a prime broker may re-hypothecate assets to the value of 140% of the client's liability to the prime broker.

For example, assume a customer has
deposited $500 in securities and
has a debt deficit of $200,
resulting in net equity of $300.

The broker-dealer can re-hypothecate up to $280 (140 per cent. x $200) of these assets.

But in the UK, there is absolutely no statutory limit on the amount that can be re-hypothecated. In fact, brokers are free to re-hypothecate all and even more than the assets deposited by clients.

Instead it is up to clients to negotiate a limit or prohibition on re-hypothecation. On the above example a UK broker could, and frequently would, re-hypothecate 100% of the pledged securities ($500).

This asymmetry of rules makes exploiting the more lax UK regime incredibly attractive to international brokerage firms such as MF Global or Lehman Brothers which can use European subsidiaries to create pools of funding for their U.S. operations, without the bother of complying with U.S. restrictions.

In fact, by 2007, re-hypothecation had grown so large that it accounted for half of the activity of the shadow banking system.

Prior to Lehman Brothers collapse, the International Monetary Fund (http://currents.westlawbusiness.com/Redirect.aspx?cid=74920079999999&src=PE111206005&sp=&RS=ZDNB0210&url=http://www.imf.org/external/index.htm) (IMF) calculated that U.S. banks were receiving $4 trillion worth of funding by re-hypothecation, much of which was sourced from the UK. With assets being re-hypothecated many times over (known as “churn”), the original collateral being used may have been as little as $1 trillion – a quarter of the financial footprint created through re-hypothecation.

BEWARE THE BRITS: CIRCUMVENTING U.S. RULES
Keen to get in on the action, U.S. prime brokers have been making judicious use of European subsidiaries. Because re-hypothecation is so profitable for prime brokers, many prime brokerage agreements provide for a U.S. client’s assets to be transferred to the prime broker’s UK subsidiary to circumvent U.S. rehypothecation rules.

Under subtle brokerage contractual provisions, U.S. investors can find that their assets vanish from the U.S. and appear instead in the UK, despite contact with an ostensibly American organisation.

Potentially as simple as having MF Global UK Limited, an English subsidiary, enter into a prime brokerage agreement with a customer, a U.S. based prime broker can immediately take advantage of the UK’s unrestricted re-hypothecation rules.

LEHMAN LESSONS
In fact this is exactly what Lehman Brothers did through Lehman Brothers International (Europe) (LBIE), an English subsidiary to which most U.S. hedge fund assets were transferred.

Once transferred to the UK based company, assets were re-hypothecated many times over, meaning that when the debt carousel stopped, and Lehman Brothers collapsed, many U.S. funds found that their assets had simply vanished.

A prime broker need not even require that an investor (ergo, hedge fund) sign all agreements with a European subsidiary to take advantage of the loophole.

In fact, in Lehman’s case many funds signed a prime brokerage agreement with Lehman Brothers Inc (a U.S. company) but margin-lending agreements and securities-lending agreements with LBIE in the UK (normally conducted under a Global Master Securities Lending Agreement).

These agreements permitted Lehman to transfer client assets between various affiliates without the fund’s express consent, despite the fact that the main agreement had been under U.S. law. As a result of these peripheral agreements, all or most of its clients’ assets found their way down to LBIE.

MF RE-HYPOTHECATION PROVISION
A similar re-hypothecation provision can be seen in MF Global’s U.S. client agreements. MF Global’s Customer Agreement for trading in
cash commodities,
commodity futures,
security futures,
options, and
forward contracts,
securities,
foreign futures and options and currencies....
........includes the following clause:
“7. Consent To Loan Or PledgeYou hereby grant us the right, in accordance with Applicable Law, to borrow, pledge, repledge, transfer, hypothecate, rehypothecate,loan, or invest any of the Collateral, including, without limitation, utilizing the Collateral to purchase or sell securities pursuant to repurchase agreements [repos] or reverse repurchase agreements with any party, in each case without notice to you, and we shall have no obligation to retain a like amount of similar Collateral in our possession and control.”
In its quarterly report, MF Global disclosed that by June 2011 it had repledged (re-hypothecated) $70 million, including securities received under resale agreements. With these transactions taking place off-balance sheet it is difficult to pin down the exact entity which was used to re-hypothecate such large sums of money but regulatory filings and letters from MF Global’s administrators contain some clues.

According to a letter from KPMG to MF Global clients, when MF Global collapsed, its UK subsidiary MF Global UK Limited had over 10,000 accounts.

MF Global disclosed in March 2011 that it had significant credit risk from its European subsidiary from “counterparties with whom we place both our own funds or securities and those of our clients”.

CAUSTIC COLLATERAL
Matters get even worse when we consider what has for the last 6 years counted as collateral under re-hypothecation rules.

Despite the fact that there may only be a quarter of the collateral in the world to back these transactions, successive U.S. governments have softened the requirements for what can back a re-hypothecation transaction.

Beginning with Clinton-era liberalisation, rules were eased that had until 2000 limited the use of re-hypothecated funds to U.S. Treasury, state and municipal obligations. These rules were slowly cut away (from 2000-2005) so that customer money could be used to enter into repurchase agreements (repos), buy foreign bonds, money market funds and other assorted securities.

Hence, when MF Global conceived of its Eurozone repo ruse, client funds were waiting to be plundered for investment in AA rated European sovereign debt, despite the fact that many of its hedge fund clients may have been betting against the performance of those very same bonds.

OFF BALANCE SHEET
As well as collateral risk, re-hypothecation creates significant counterparty risk and its off-balance sheet treatment contains many hidden nasties. Even without circumventing U.S. limits on re-hypothecation, the off-balance sheet treatment means that the amount of leverage (gearing) and systemic risk created in the system by re-hypothecation is staggering.

Re-hypothecation transactions are off-balance sheet and are therefore unrestricted by balance sheet controls. Whereas on balance sheet transactions necessitate only appearing as an asset/liability on one bank’s balance sheet and not another, ...
.......off-balance sheet transactions can, and frequently do, appear on multiple banks’ financial statements. What this creates is chains of counterparty risk, where multiple re-hypothecation borrowers use the same collateral over and over again. Essentially, it is a chain of debt obligations that is only as strong as its weakest link.

With collateral being re-hypothecated to a factor of four (according to IMF estimates), the actual capital backing banks re-hypothecation transactions may be as little as 25%. This churning of collateral means that re-hypothecation transactions have been creating enormous amounts of liquidity, much of which has no real asset backing.

The lack of balance sheet recognition of re-hypothecation was noted in Jefferies (http://currents.westlawbusiness.com/Redirect.aspx?cid=74920079999999&src=PE111206005&url=http://www.westlawbusiness.com/find/default.wl?rs=ZDNB0211&findtype=bcf&db=WLB-CMPNYBCSRBD&cite=CIK%280001084580%29&vr=2.0&mt=WLBDueDiligence&sp=)’ recent 10Q (emphasis added):
“Note 7. Collateralized Transactions
We pledge securities in connection with repurchase agreements, securities lending agreements and other secured arrangements, including clearing arrangements. The pledge of our securities is in connection with our mortgage−backed securities, corporate bond, government and agency securities and equities businesses. Counterparties generally have the right to sell or repledge the collateral.Pledged securities that can be sold or repledged by the counterparty are included within Financial instruments owned and noted as Securities pledged on our Consolidated Statements of Financial Condition. We receive securities as collateral in connection with resale agreements, securities borrowings and customer margin loans. In many instances, we are permitted by contract or custom to rehypothecate securities received as collateral. These securities maybe used to secure repurchase agreements, enter into security lending or derivative transactions or cover short positions. At August 31, 2011 and November 30, 2010, the approximate fair value of securities received as collateral by us that may be sold or repledged was approximately $25.9 billion and $22.3 billion, respectively. At August 31, 2011 and November 30, 2010, a substantial portion of the securities received by us had been sold or repledged.
We engage in securities for securities transactions in which we are the borrower of securities and provide other securities as collateral rather than cash. As no cash is provided under these types of transactions, we, as borrower, treat these as noncash transactions and do not recognize assets or liabilities on the Consolidated Statements of Financial Condition. The securities pledged as collateral under these transactions are included within the total amount of Financial instruments owned and noted as Securities pledged on our Consolidated Statements of Financial Condition.
According to Jefferies’ most recent Annual Report it had re-hypothecated $22.3 billion (in fair value) of assets in 2011 including government debt, asset backed securities, derivatives and corporate equity- that’s just $15 billion shy of Jefferies total on balance sheet assets of $37 billion.

HYPER-HYPOTHECATION
With weak collateral rules and a level of leverage that would make Archimedes tremble, firms have been piling into re-hypothecation activity with startling abandon.

A review of filings reveals a staggering level of activity in what may be the world’s largest ever credit bubble.
Engaging in hyper-hypothecation have been
Goldman Sachs (http://currents.westlawbusiness.com/Redirect.aspx?cid=74920079999999&src=PE111206005&url=http://www.westlawbusiness.com/find/default.wl?rs=ZDNB0212&findtype=bcf&db=WLB-CMPNYBCSRBD&cite=CIK%280000886982%29&vr=2.0&mt=WLBDueDiligence&sp=) ($28.17 billion re-hypothecated in 2011),
Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce (http://currents.westlawbusiness.com/Redirect.aspx?cid=74920079999999&src=PE111206005&url=http://www.westlawbusiness.com/find/default.wl?rs=ZDNB0213&findtype=bcf&db=WLB-CMPNYBCSRBD&cite=CIK%280001045520%29&vr=2.0&mt=WLBDueDiligence&sp=) (re-pledged $72 billion in client assets),
Royal Bank of Canada (http://currents.westlawbusiness.com/Redirect.aspx?cid=74920079999999&src=PE111206005&url=http://www.westlawbusiness.com/find/default.wl?rs=ZDNB0214&findtype=bcf&db=WLB-CMPNYBCSRBD&cite=CIK%280001000275%29&vr=2.0&mt=WLBDueDiligence&sp=) (re-pledged $53.8 billion of $126.7 billion available for re-pledging),
Oppenheimer Holdings (http://currents.westlawbusiness.com/Redirect.aspx?cid=74920079999999&src=PE111206005&url=http://www.westlawbusiness.com/find/default.wl?rs=ZDNB0215&findtype=bcf&db=WLB-CMPNYBCSRBD&cite=CIK%280000791963%29&vr=2.0&mt=WLBDueDiligence&sp=) ($15.3 million),
Credit Suisse (http://currents.westlawbusiness.com/Redirect.aspx?cid=74920079999999&src=PE111206005&url=http://www.westlawbusiness.com/find/default.wl?rs=ZDNB0216&findtype=bcf&db=WLB-CMPNYBCSRBD&cite=CIK%280001053092%29&vr=2.0&mt=WLBDueDiligence&sp=) (CHF 332 billion),
Knight Capital Group (http://currents.westlawbusiness.com/Redirect.aspx?cid=74920079999999&src=PE111206005&url=http://www.westlawbusiness.com/find/default.wl?rs=ZDNB0217&findtype=bcf&db=WLB-CMPNYBCSRBD&cite=CIK%280001060749%29&vr=2.0&mt=WLBDueDiligence&sp=) ($1.17 billion),
Interactive Brokers (http://currents.westlawbusiness.com/Redirect.aspx?cid=74920079999999&src=PE111206005&url=http://www.westlawbusiness.com/find/default.wl?rs=ZDNB0218&findtype=bcf&db=WLB-CMPNYBCSRBD&cite=CIK%280001381197%29&vr=2.0&mt=WLBDueDiligence&sp=) ($14.5 billion),
Wells Fargo (http://currents.westlawbusiness.com/Redirect.aspx?cid=74920079999999&src=PE111206005&url=http://www.westlawbusiness.com/find/default.wl?rs=ZDNB0219&findtype=bcf&db=WLB-CMPNYBCSRBD&cite=CIK%280000072971%29&vr=2.0&mt=WLBDueDiligence&sp=) ($19.6 billion),
JP Morgan (http://currents.westlawbusiness.com/Redirect.aspx?cid=74920079999999&src=PE111206005&url=http://www.westlawbusiness.com/find/default.wl?rs=ZDNB0220&findtype=bcf&db=WLB-CMPNYBCSRBD&cite=CIK%280000019617%29&vr=2.0&mt=WLBDueDiligence&sp=)($546.2 billion) and
Morgan Stanley (http://currents.westlawbusiness.com/Redirect.aspx?cid=74920079999999&src=PE111206005&url=http://www.westlawbusiness.com/find/default.wl?rs=ZDNB0221&findtype=bcf&db=WLB-CMPNYBCSRBD&cite=CIK%280000895421%29&vr=2.0&mt=WLBDueDiligence&sp=) ($410 billion).

Nor is lending confined to between banks. Intra-bank re-hypothecation is also possible as evidenced by filings from Wells Fargo.

According to disclosures from Wachovia Preferred Funding Corp, its parent, Wells Fargo, acts as collateral custodian and has the right to re-hypothecate and use around $170 million of assets posted as collateral.

LIQUIDITY CRISIS
The volume and level of re-hypothecation suggests a frightening alternative hypothesis for the current liquidity crisis being experienced by banks and for why regulators around the world decided to step in to prop up the markets recently.

To date, reports have been focused on how Eurozone default concerns were provoking fear in the markets and causing liquidity to dry up.

Most have been focused on how a Eurozone default would result in huge losses in Eurozone bonds being felt across the world’s banks. However, re-hypothecation suggests an even greater fear.

Considering that re-hypothecation may have increased the financial footprint of Eurozone bonds by at least four fold then a Eurozone sovereign default could be apocalyptic.

U.S. banks direct holding of sovereign debt is hardly negligible.

According to the Bank for International Settlements (BIS), U.S. banks hold $181 billion in the sovereign debt of Greece, Ireland, Italy, Portugal and Spain. If we factor in off-balance sheet transactions such as re-hypothecations and repos, then the picture becomes frightening.

As for MF Global’s clients, the recent adoption of an “MF Global rule” by the Commodity Futures Trading Commission to ban using client funds to purchase foreign sovereign debt, would seem to suggest that it was indeed client money behind its leveraged repo-to-maturity deal - a fact that will likely mean that very few MF Global clients few get their money back.

Written with contributions from Jack Bunker and Nanette Byrnes.

--------------------
You'll find me in the "not surprised--if you don't hold it, you don't own it" Ponce campfire groupies......

Sorta apocalyptic? My behind!

Sure gives new meaning to the old saw, brokers only make you broker and broker.

This is a staggering amount of greed live and in living color! On top of Mortgage Fraud! Toss in a Fukushima and a STUXNET, and voila...

"Peace on Earth...Good Will toward Men"

Beam me up, Scotty!!!


beefsteak

osoab
8th December 2011, 01:35 PM
You have a link beefsteak?

DMac
8th December 2011, 01:40 PM
I was reading recently an explanation that the order of 'payback' starts priority wise with the derivatives of a given bank when it fails. Since the derivatives desk is usually many multiples higher in terms of liabilities this, in essence, makes it impossible for a bank/brokerage to pay back customers as they are further down the food chain in terms of priority for payback.

DMac
8th December 2011, 01:42 PM
Related thread:

MF Global and the great Wall St re-hypothecation scandal (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?56677-MF-Global-and-the-great-Wall-St-re-hypothecation-scandal&p=491834#post491834)

mamboni
8th December 2011, 01:45 PM
All fancy language for robbery in broad daylight. The bankers really have us snowed. The bottom line is keeping money at a commodity brokerage is worse then letting a casino hold your money: they can gamble with it and if they lose, you lose and there's nothing you can do about it. If they win they get to keep the profits and you get none of the profits. Heads they win, tails you lose. Ain't Wall Street great!?!?

zap
10th December 2011, 10:56 PM
You'll find me in the "not surprised--if you don't hold it, you don't own it" Ponce campfire groupies......

Sorta apocalyptic? My behind!

Sure gives new meaning to the old saw, brokers only make you broker and broker. :) ;)

This is a staggering amount of greed live and in living color! On top of Mortgage Fraud! Toss in a Fukushima and a STUXNET, and voila...

"Peace on Earth...Good Will toward Men"

Beam me up, Scotty!!!


Quote by Beefsteak

I agree !

zap
14th December 2011, 09:00 PM
I love this guy, start at 8 min, " The only time Jesus got mad, when he picked up a whip and chased the money changers out of the temple " lol your money isn't safe unless its in your pocket.


http://geraldcelente-blog.blogspot.com/2011/12/gerald-celente-mark-carbonaro-09.html

beefsteak
14th December 2011, 11:50 PM
That is funny, Zap.
Truth is, how on earth would any of us, believers or agnostics alike, know if Jesus only got mad one time in his entire adult life? Sounds a little preposterous to me, as there's a lot to get mad about, whether during his lifetime or ours.

Now, it may be the only surviving "written recorded reference" in the King James Version of Holy Writ, I don't rightly know. IF theologians ever find the Document Q which all of this is supposedly extracted from, maybe there is more information available.

What I like about this story in the Gospels is this: Jesus demonstrates that he doesn't choke back his anger, and he gave it a voice and overt action. Sometimes religion, especially tries to make everything nice, and no body gets mad about nuthin'.....etc.

However, me thinks it's perfectly allright to get mad when one of the basic 10 is violated, especially in the Temple and perpetrated upon the least able to defend themselves.

Do you know what the moneychangers were there for, aka what their societal purpose was in "temple life?"

It's a fascinating nuanced story, and Gerald would be well served to delve into it a little deeper.

There is stink now over the "moneychangers" in the MF Global fiasco, just like there was stink all over this "currency traders operating on the Temple grounds" New Covenant story.

Thanks for sharing that. I hadn't seen this until you brought it to the forum.


beefsteak

zap
16th December 2011, 09:12 PM
LOL haha I love him Makes me laugh so hard..... !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6j6TxlPeAY

I never gave any instructions that could be mis-con-screwed?as per John Corzine.

OMG you gotta see the end of the video

Dogman
16th December 2011, 09:15 PM
LOL haha I love him Make me laugh so hard..... !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6j6TxlPeAY

I never gave any instuctions that could be mis-conscrewed?as per John Corszine.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6j6TxlPeAY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6j6TxlPeAY


This guy is a HOOT!

zap
16th December 2011, 09:20 PM
Thanks for fixing it for me Dogman , I LOVE this guy!

Dogman
16th December 2011, 09:21 PM
Thanks for fixing it for me Dogman , I LOVE this guy! Never payed any attention before, but I will now, He has a way about him I like the hell out of it.

zap
16th December 2011, 09:41 PM
Ha ha you guys gotta watch this guy !!

zap
16th December 2011, 09:48 PM
Bumping myself cause you ALL NEED TO LISTEN TO THE TRUTH FROM THIS GUY !!

zap
16th December 2011, 09:51 PM
bump nite all

beefsteak
17th December 2011, 05:03 AM
Zap,
.....you've finally solved a mystery for me.

The mystery? What does the phrase, "things go bump in the night" truly mean......

Answer: It's GS'ers "bumping" important threads at all hours of the night! ;D

Ahhhhh. curiousity saited. THANKS again!


beefsteak.

gunDriller
17th December 2011, 08:40 AM
That is funny, Zap.
Truth is, how on earth would any of us, believers or agnostics alike, know if Jesus only got mad one time in his entire adult life?

if he was anything like normal teenagers - and he was human in form - there was probably that one time when Mary was house-cleaning and threw out all his old carpentry scrolls - or something.

like when an American teen-ager goes to college and their mother cleans their room and throws out all their old whatever magazines ... then the teen-ager comes home and says, "i wanted to keep those".

zap
17th December 2011, 09:26 PM
Here is the latest with Max Keiser

Gerald Celente & Max Keiser on MF Global debacle - 17 December 2011
Gerald Celente On the Edge with Max Keiser 17 December 2011 . The MF Global raiding of client's accounts.All those billions just sitting around - Well OF COURSE they robbed people. its our duty as debt slaves to dedicate our lives to enrich the mighty banksters.


http://geraldcelentechannel.blogspot.com/2011/12/gerald-celente-max-keiser-on-mf-global.html

Horn
18th December 2011, 09:28 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6j6txlpeay

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6j6txlpeay


this guy is a hoot!


get those 6 cows with the predator drone!!!!

EE_
18th December 2011, 09:51 AM
"The best financial minds in the wouyiald." lol
Know how to get an Italian (Celente) to stop talking?...tie his hands behind his back.

zap
26th December 2011, 09:06 PM
http://www.reallibertymedia.com/2011/12/celente-warns-of-2012-economy-will-crash-banks-will-close-chaos-will-ensue-military-will-take-over/ Video at link

Celente Warns of 2012: Economy Will Crash, Banks Will Close, Chaos Will Ensue, Military Will Take Over

by Mac Slavo

Leave a Comment | Tags: Forecasting, Gerald-Celente |
Dec 16


This is a syndicated post. Read the original at SHTF Plan - When It Hits The Fan, Don't Say We Didn't Warn You.

If you’ve followed trend forecaster Gerald Celente for any period of time you’ve probably realized he knows what he’s talking about. For the better part of two decades Celente and his Trends Journal have been forecasting political, financial, economic and social trends with an uncanny ability for accuracy.

In his latest interview Celente discusses a variety of different topics — from Iran and Europe to domestic militarization and the economy — and warns that our worst fears will soon be realized.

Bottom line? You ain’t seen nothin’ yet:


Gerald Celente on Jeff Rense Radio:

This passed (National Defense Authorization Act) the Senate by 93-7. I’m mentioning this because all the pieces are in place now.

The economy is going to crash. There is going to be chaos. Economic martial law will be called. Banks will close. And, chaos will ensure.

The law is now in place for the military to come in and take over. Fascism has come to America.

And if anyone thinks that I’m over blowing this, you may recall, for those of you who have been listening to Jeff Rense for the years that I’ve been on, that when Obama got elected I said there was a high probability, in 2009, of a bank holiday because of the disastrous economic conditions.

zap
26th December 2011, 09:21 PM
Heres another can somebody post the video? Please I am watching it now Laughing my a$$ off.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dMoX5QP31E

Joe King
27th December 2011, 12:46 AM
Heres another can somebody post the video? Please I am watching it now Laughing my a$$ off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dMoX5QP31E

Here ya go.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dMoX5QP31E



How to post a video.
1963

The box you paste the url address into, looks like this.
1964

zap
27th December 2011, 10:02 AM
LOL, I am going to get some money out here in the near future, nothing like Celete to be sure, but I can't wait to see if they ask me what I am going to do with the money! :) None of your business !!!!

Half Sense
28th December 2011, 07:19 AM
I wonder if Celente has changed his mind about the "idiots on the internet" who say it serves him right for playing paper games. Celente says he was NOT playing paper games, HE HAD A CONTRACT FOR DELIVERY!

DMac
28th December 2011, 07:33 AM
I wonder if Celente has changed his mind about the "idiots on the internet" who say it serves him right for playing paper games. Celente says he was NOT playing paper games, HE HAD A CONTRACT FOR DELIVERY!

The irony is not lost on me!

DMac
28th December 2011, 11:40 AM
I was curious about Celente's lost money so I went to his Youtube channel. He was on Jones' show discussing the story again:

http://www.youtube.com/user/GeraldCelenteChannel

Jones is such a ham lol

So listening to him talk about "buying his gold @ 1400's" with requested delivery in December, it really struck me how "Mr. Trends forecaster" was so clueless that IF YOU DON"T HOLD IT YOU DON'T OWN IT! And you must use cash!

The gall that these asinine talking heads on tv, internet etc call folks like the membership here paranoid, or kooks or whatever for using such basic common sense, really 'grinds my gears'.

Celente by the end of clip 1 now seems to get the you don't hold it maxim, but damn, talk about being behind the curve when you make your living telling fortunes.

"If Nostradamus were alive today, he'd have a hard time keeping up with Gerald Celente" - facepalm!!!

DMac
28th December 2011, 03:12 PM
Dmac, that may be true to a certain extent, but the quantity of gold he was talking about getting is available in few places. Yea he could shop on e-bay but would have to hire a room full of workers to get it done. My local coin shops have a fair amount but nothing like he wants. The amount of gold he was talking about is LARGE, he bought most of his gold in this fashion, buy contracts and stand for delivery. Some contracts he would take a paper profit on that allowed him capital to stay in the stacking physical game. Make no mistake about it Celente I believe has a big pile of physical gold.

I disagree. I know 3 shops in NYC he could walk in and purchase 7 figures of gold with no issue. I used to visit this one dealer regularly, told me about a lady that came in a week before me and spend 2 million(!). This was a walk in shop, where the other 2 I know are by appointment only.

From the clips, didn't he lose less than $1 million? Something in the 100's of thousands?

There are also avenues like NWMint etc.

He played the game by their rules and he should have known better.

Half Sense
28th December 2011, 07:08 PM
Sure, but how many of those 7-figure buys does it take until the shelf is empty? Not too many.

osoab
28th December 2011, 08:13 PM
I disagree. I know 3 shops in NYC he could walk in and purchase 7 figures of gold with no issue. I used to visit this one dealer regularly, told me about a lady that came in a week before me and spend 2 million(!). This was a walk in shop, where the other 2 I know are by appointment only.

From the clips, didn't he lose less than $1 million? Something in the 100's of thousands?

There are also avenues like NWMint etc.

He played the game by their rules and he should have known better.


I give Celente a pass on this. He was fucked over by his original brokerage that ran through MF. If he had known he was running the trades through MF, I bet Celente would have switched.

gunDriller
31st December 2011, 08:48 AM
Dmac, that may be true to a certain extent, but the quantity of gold he was talking about getting is available in few places.

just for kicks, i loaded up a shopping cart with most of the gold at APMex to see how much.

that's a great way to get their Chat person excited. they must be on commission !

anyway, it came to about $11 million. certainly enough to cover a 6-figures contract like Celente had.

my guess is, Celente did it that way for semi-obvious reasons - he was comfortable with them, he thought he was being smart - perhaps they paid him a little interest for the cash in his account, he was friends with one of the brokerages in the food chain.

Gerald Celente ... meet Mr. Tulving.

DMac
31st December 2011, 08:55 AM
just for kicks, i loaded up a shopping cart with most of the gold at APMex to see how much.

that's a great way to get their Chat person excited. they must be on commission !

anyway, it came to about $11 million. certainly enough to cover a 6-figures contract like Celente had.

my guess is, Celente did it that way for semi-obvious reasons - he was comfortable with them, he thought he was being smart - perhaps they paid him a little interest for the cash in his account, he was friends with one of the brokerages in the food chain.

Gerald Celente ... meet Mr. Tulving.

The reason he used the brokerage was because he could buy ON MARGIN! Do you folks remember Silverbach's threads on old GIM where he outlined how to get rich off palladium? (edit: the margin part of this story is the reason he lost money and it is not being talked about enough for how important it is - from margin we have learned about 'rehypothecation'.)

This fact is why I don't give him a pass.

Buying on margin = gambling.

Horn
31st December 2011, 09:08 AM
The gall that these asinine talking heads on tv, internet etc call folks like the membership here paranoid, or kooks or whatever for using such basic common sense, really 'grinds my gears'.

But for people who are still in "the game" this makes pretty convincing material to email & link to.

Joe King
31st December 2011, 09:13 AM
The reason he used the brokerage was because he could buy ON MARGIN! Do you folks remember Silverbach's threads on old GIM where he outlined how to get rich off palladium? (edit: the margin part of this story is the reason he lost money and it is not being talked about enough for how important it is - from margin we have learned about 'rehypothecation'.)

This fact is why I don't give him a pass.

Buying on margin = gambling.
Exactly. It seems to me he should have known the risks.

I also find it strange that he seemed so taken aback by the reaction he got when he pulled a large sum out of his bank. Surely he, if anyone, knows that the only way the system contains even the perception of wealth is if most everyone keeps their "wealth" tied up in it.

Surely Celente did not fall off a turnip truck yesterday. lol

zap
4th January 2012, 03:07 PM
http://geraldcelentechannel.blogspot.com/2011/12/gerald-celente-12-trends-for-2012.html?showComment=1325442994893#c5963439945161 11354

Heres the latest I have found.

zap
7th January 2012, 09:22 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMt_F4PCzbw

LOL.....

JohnWood
11th January 2012, 04:59 AM
I have spoken to many Argentinians during my travels. They told me that even to this day many Argentinians still routinely stash their cash underneath their mattress out of fear of wealth confiscation by the banks. That practice of economic martial law by their financial institutions was rather common during the 2000 economic collapse. People have long memories...Even today People still only accept cash as the only source of payment for real estate transaction. MF global debacle is just another way of elites imploding the US economy by design. Politicians then of course will cry about financial regulations and so and so forth to keep the masses happy and content during election year. Little do the peasants realize that most hedge funds and bankers have already relocated to "deregulated" financial havens such as Singapore, Dubai, Hong Kong and Shanghai..

zap
19th January 2012, 08:10 PM
http://geraldcelente-blog.blogspot.com/2012/01/ndaa-coast-to-coast-am-18-january-2012.html

Latest from Gerry ......
Coast to Coast AM Natl. Def. Authorization Act Special Date: 01-18-12 Host: George Noory Guests: Linda Moulton Gerald Celete. In a special program, George Noory was joined by Linda Moulton Howe The National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) of 2012, which contains controversial provisions such as the holding of suspects without due process or habeas corpus. Jonathan Emord, who practices constitutional and administrative law, believes the NDAA is unconstitutional in that it allows the military to incarcerate individuals indefinitely, without charges or a trial. When this kind of thing happens in secrecy, without judicial check, it's the end of liberty, he commented. Linda noted that the language in the Act doesn't specify whether US citizens might be held under this kind of military authority with their rights suspended. Independent journalist David Seaman reported that people across the political spectrum who hear about the NDAA are opposed to it, but because of the lack of the mainstream press coverage most Americans remain unaware of it. At this juncture, Congress has no reason to pass this kind of indefinite detention statute, and it raises the question that some hidden motivation is in play, said Linda. Seaman conjectured that the NDAA may eventually be used against Occupy protestors. Producer Tyrel Ventura, the son of Jesse Ventura, suggested that the NDAA isn't really about fighting terrorism but rather it's to control the populace, in the event of rebellion, possibly related to food or water shortages, or other crises. We live in a corporate dictatorship, and many of these companies have connections to the Defense Dept. and it's in their interests to have a lockdown society, he added. Trends analyst Gerald Celente declared that fascism has come to the US. He believes the NDAA has been put into place because there's going to be "economic martial law," and "bank holidays" which will cause rioting in the streets.

zap
6th February 2012, 08:49 PM
http://geraldcelentechannel.blogspot.com/2012/02/gerald-celente-take-your-money-out-of.html

zap
7th February 2012, 10:31 AM
Also on Tuesday morning, Bernanke -- during a testimony before the Senate Budget Committee -- said the possibility of a sudden fiscal crisis has increased,

Warning in addition that interest rates can soar quickly if investors lose confidence in the ability of the government to manage its fiscal policy.


Making no mention of last week’s strong jobs report, Bernanke instead said that the labor market has a long way to go before it will return to normal. In today’s testimony, Bernanke essentially reiterated the thoughts on fiscal policy that he had presented to lawmakers the previous week.

http://money.msn.com/market-news/post.aspx?post=4ca186ee-dfd8-41a6-bda6-63bc5c8908a4&_nwpt=1

Jewboo
8th July 2013, 12:10 PM
Corzine off the crook (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/corzine_off_the_crook_t3VpDFmfEsx9Qd7VdtCLvM?utm_m edium=rss&utm_content=Business)No criminal charges

:rolleyes:

ximmy
8th July 2013, 12:34 PM
Corzine off the crook (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/corzine_off_the_crook_t3VpDFmfEsx9Qd7VdtCLvM?utm_m edium=rss&utm_content=Business)

No criminal charges

:rolleyes:

He's probably got a stack too... :)

gunDriller
11th August 2013, 03:15 PM
http://geraldcelentechannel.blogspot.com/2012/02/gerald-celente-take-your-money-out-of.html

no more blog.

- - -

>> The reason he used the brokerage was because he could buy ON MARGIN! Do you folks remember Silverbach's threads on old GIM where he outlined how to get rich off palladium? (edit: the margin part of this story is the reason he lost money and it is not being talked about enough for how important it is - from margin we have learned about 'rehypothecation'.)

This fact is why I don't give him a pass.

Buying on margin = gambling.

- - -

it really sounds like he needs to subscribe to his own newsletter.

the only reason i could give him a 'pass', in terms of judging his bad judgment, is if he was too busy.

we all make mistakes in our preps.

this might a pretty big mistake. or it might not.

if he had a big stack safely stored, and got screwed on the next incremental addition to it, then it's 'lesson learned.'


if what he lost via Corzine was his stack ?

besides making me think his judgment is especially terrible - for a trends forecaster - it makes me wonder if he is a "member of the club", if he thought he was protected because "Corzine would never screw his good buddy Celente."


personally, Celente strikes me a little bit like Alex Jones.

Jewboo
11th August 2013, 05:06 PM
...it makes me wonder if he is a "member of the club"...




http://www.crashproofprosperityblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/gerald-celente-30-avatar-03.jpg

Marrano Jew


:rolleyes:
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marrano)