Heads up Saiganistas

[mightymanx]

Not affiliated, and don't have one yet (I am poor)

This if it is not a bucket of shit would seem to fix all the saiga ergonomic problems.

IMHO a Saiga owners wet dream.

http://www.kushnapup.com/http://www.kushnapup.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/home-kush-1.jpg

[midnight rambler]

As with all aftermarket bullpup stocks I'd be very concerned about the trigger pull.

Even with that bullpup stock the Saiga is STILL NOT a true standalone tactical shotgun.

[LuckyStrike]

Looks cool and all but the trigger looks cheap.

[mightymanx]

We are going to have to agree to disagree on that point

I used to get paid to be real good with a "tactical" shotgun and and the only reason Saigas were not used is the US government would not allow their people buy and to use Russian guns.

I would say 50% of todays breaching teams and other professionals have converted to Saigas.

For CQB there is nothing I would want more than a 13 inch barreled Saiga with the AR 15 magwell and AGP 10 round mags.

To hell with the 6 round pump then pistol shit that tactic died in the 90's

[mightymanx]

Looks cool and all but the trigger looks cheap.


From the reading I have done it is a straight pull not a swing trigger. but there really is not a hell of alot of trigger finesse on a shotgun anyway outside of sporting clays.


Not often heard:

"Oh shit I slapped the trigger when blowing the door hinges off.... My badd LT"

[midnight rambler]

I would say 50% of todays breaching teamsYes, that's the key, TEAMS. And FWIW, I'd like to see something to back up your assertion (I assert that there's absolutely NO police or military units [outside of Russia] which utilize the Saiga 12 or ANY detachable magazine shotgun). I assert that as a STANDALONE tactical shotgun it's a very, very poor choice since a Saiga cannot be reloaded on the fly, nor can you switch up ammo types on the fly like you can with a tube magazine shotgun. The ultimate in tactical shotguns these days are the Benelli M4 (7+1[+1]) and the FN SLP (8+1[+1]). IMO, the ONLY thing a Saiga is suitable for use as a *civilian* is: 1) in a fixed, barricaded position, or 2) as an ambush weapon as part of a TEAM. There is no place for the Saiga 12 in a 'shoot and scoot' role due to all the problems associated with (relatively low capacity/bulky straight and huge hi-cap drum) magazines, whereas one can easily and quickly throw on four shotgun bandoleers for a total of 200+ rounds - to have that much ammo in mags you'd have to have at least 20 magazines or at least four drums (if not five).

Anyone who thinks they can survive shoot and scoot on the two-way range with a detachable magazine shotgun in a 'standalone' role has no practical training and/or experience, and I further assert they are delusional.

[mightymanx]

Posted 06 December 2010 - 09:27 AM
We have sold Saiga SBS' to SWAT/SOT teams all over the country including the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team in Quantico Virginia.

Tony Rumore
Tromix



http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/60649-tactical-entry-sbs/

I can also change mags while running and doing anything and more than a tube loader.

The Saiga class in 3 gun and all the other tactical shooting competitions is not because reloading a saiga is slower.

Never really needed to change ammo types on the fly either. Never even heard a 2 way range story of someone doing it either.

Like I said we need to agree to disagree.

Or we can switch to any one of the endless gun debates 9mm vs 45, Ar-15 vs Ak-47

[midnight rambler]

Have you ever been on the 2-way range with a shotgun of any type?

[mightymanx]

classified x1x6

[midnight rambler]

Your reply was unresponsive, so I take that as a 'no'.

In the real world one is unlikely to need a 10 round magazine* on a shotgun in a fire and maneuver scenario where one is in a 'standalone' circumstance (where you're it without any backup or support), in fact with discipline and a bandoleer of ammo one can keep a five round magazine on a shotgun from running empty. And if one is unable to to that, then one's tactics suck. There's also a lot to be said about the ability to switch from buck to slugs to specialty ammo on the fly in a shit blizzard when one is alone without help. I've a friend who was Force Recon in the 'nam in '64 who asserts that if one cannot solve one's problems with 5 rounds of shotgun ammo then one brought the wrong gun to the fight. With my hi-cap Benelli and a couple of bandoleers I have the capacity for a whole lot of problem solving - and I can do nearly as well with my 57 y.o. Model 12 Winchester.

*a fucking 10 round detachable magazine (or drum for that matter) hanging off the bottom of a shotgun does not lend itself to 'tactical' use despite the delusions of some, and as for those moronic cowboys/cops/wannabe badasses who Tony sells his modified Saigas to, they're just plain stupid and suffering from testosterone surges

[LuckyStrike]

I assert that as a STANDALONE tactical shotgun it's a very, very poor choice since a Saiga cannot be reloaded on the fly, nor can you switch up ammo types on the fly like you can with a tube magazine shotgun.

What do you mean it can't be reloaded on the fly? Any detachable magazine can be inserted quicker than pushing shells down a tube. I also don't know what you mean about switching up ammo types, Saiga 12's can shoot a variety of different loads stacked one after the other in the same mag. At home I have No 7 and 00 Buck stacked in one mag and the gun sits next to my bed.