Forgotten Warrior

[TomD]

Saw this just out in the open in the parking lot next to the Naval Air Museum, Pensacola. It isn't one of the displays, just over to the side, no one seems to know what to do with this over the hill aircraft. Lot of parallels there.

This is a late 1950's design A5 Vigilante, originally designed as a nuclear strike bomber.

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x229/TomD77/misc%20stuff/DSC9467.jpg

[Dogman]

While stationed at Ubon in Thailand, there were always one or two A-5's and F-111's on the ramp along with our F-4 and AC-130 squadrons. And we always had a roaring debate going which looked better taking off at full mil afterburner power. The A-5 looked fast just sitting parked.

[TomD]

While stationed at Ubon in Thailand, there were always one or two A-5's and F-111's on the ramp along with our F-4 and AC-130 squadrons. And we always had a roaring debate going which looked better taking off at full mil afterburner power. The A-5 looked fast just sitting parked.

Man did you ever date yourself with that! You're as decrepit as I am.

TomD USMC 1969-1973

[Dogman]

Man did you ever date yourself with that! You're as decrepit as I am.

TomD USMC 1969-1973

;D taint it so! USAF 1970-1974

[Ponce]

1959-1966.......shut up you freaking kids, and drink your milk.

[Dogman]

1959-1966.......shut up you freaking kids, and drink your milk. Sí, el honor pedo viejo 1953

[gunDriller]

Man did you ever date yourself with that! You're as decrepit as I am.

TomD USMC 1969-1973

Decrepitude RULES !

well, vigorous Decrepitude, anyway.

[TomD]

I was born in 1948, my dad and all his friends were WWII Vets. My Dad was a West Point grad and a multiple combat medal winner. It shapes you as it makes you wonder if you would measure up.

[midnight rambler]

Dying or getting maimed in the banksters' wars for profits is a surefire way to earn a medal or medals, but as for "those who no longer matter", well tough shit.

www.gtr5.com (http://www.gtr5.com)

Note the table showing the number of abandoned servicemen from WW1 thru SE Asia - http://www.homeofheroes.com/hallofheroes/1st_floor/flag/1bfb_disp9c.html

http://www.myphotoshots.net/d/36370-8/pow-flag.gif

[Serpo]

It looks like a giant paper weight and maybe needed for all the new paper being printed

[TomD]

While stationed at Ubon in Thailand, there were always one or two A-5's and F-111's on the ramp along with our F-4 and AC-130 squadrons. And we always had a roaring debate going which looked better taking off at full mil afterburner power. The A-5 looked fast just sitting parked.

Looking at the Wikipedia info on the A5, it had the same power as the F4 did which, if you don't know, is a freaking sh**load of power. F4's were the 1st aircraft capable of supersonic flight while going straight up.

[midnight rambler]

Looking at the Wikipedia info on the A5, it had the same power as the F4 did which, if you don't know, is a freaking sh**load of power. F4's were the 1st aircraft capable of supersonic flight while going straight up.

Yes indeed, the Phantom had very powerful engines*, but it needed them since it was known as 'the flying brick'. Cut or lose power and the F4 falls like a rock - a 'nam era Phantom pilot described it to me, "Pull back on the throttle and it was literally like hitting the brakes, it just stops."

*17,845 lbf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound-force) wet thrust x 2, which isn't all that spectacular with respect to Gen 4 jets

Just like this one that flamed out during an air show -


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbFgx7FBj-I

[Dogman]

Looking at the Wikipedia info on the A5, it had the same power as the F4 did which, if you don't know, is a freaking sh**load of power.

Same engines, and yes the F4 could honk on. Full military power with afterburner is a sight to behold and hear. And takeoffs at night can not be described other than awesome. I had the opportunity to stand within 3 feet of the hot end of a J79-GE-15 in full afterburner at an outdoor test stand at Bergstrom, AFB. Ear muffs and ear plugs still the loudest noise I have ever heard or felt. And the afterburner jet with the 'dancing diamonds' shock waves was very beautiful and aw-inspiring. Even on the side of that engine if it was light it got blown away, the exhaust created its own wind all around it, all moving in the exhaust direction.

Seen both A-5 and F-4 take off and out of sight climbing in less than one minute! Wow!

Edit: The F-4 had a sort of howling sound that was a very distinctive sound, Back in the day , I could identify the type aircraft just by sound alone. Even today I know when a C-130 fly's over head just by hearing it.

[Dogman]

Yep!

They did fly like a lead brick with out power. But with power they flew like scalded cats.

[TomD]

Yes indeed, the Phantom had very powerful engines*, but it needed them since it was known as 'the flying brick'. Cut or lose power and the F4 falls like a rock - a 'nam era Phantom pilot described it to me, "Pull back on the throttle and it was literally like hitting the brakes, it just stops."

*17,845 lbf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound-force) wet thrust x 2, which isn't all that spectacular with respect to Gen 4 jets

Just like this one that flamed out during an air show -



Oh, come on now MR, the F4 was a very impressive aircraft in it's time. The contemporaneous MIG 21's were extremely primitive compared though they were, admittedly, better dog fighters. The rules of engagement at the time took the F4 out of its element and forced it into the MIG's element but even so there was a favorable kill ratio. In the hands of an excellent pilot, the F4 was unbeatable at the time. Read about the exploits of Col Robin Olds.

[midnight rambler]

Oh, come on now MR, the F4 was a very impressive aircraft in it's time. The contemporaneous MIG 21's were extremely primitive compared though they were, admittedly, better dog fighters. The rules of engagement at the time took the F4 out of its element and forced it into the MIG's element but even so there was a favorable kill ratio. In the hands of an excellent pilot, the F4 was unbeatable at the time. Read about the exploits of Col Robin Olds.

There's no doubt that the F4 ruled the roost through the '60s and into the '70s. However it was very short sighted of the USAF to not put a gun on it (initially, then eventually they did add a gunpod underneath on some F4s) relying solely on missiles.

One of the pilots who was among the group who were first to fly fighter jets (F4s) 'round the world non-stop in the early '60s was a close personal friend of mine.

[TomD]

However it was very short sighted of the USAF to not put a gun on it .

Can't disagree with that, even the USAF agrees and hasn't repeated the mistake. The F16 (a 1970's design) owes a lot to the lessons learned from the dog fighting over North Viet Nam.