Imagine If...Ron Paul

[Golden]

Imagine If...Ron Paul was President in 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fljLI2uHBJk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fljLI2uHBJk
Uploaded by socalking421 on Dec 23, 2011

[Golden]

Eric Michael & The Ron Paul Super Brochure

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__XfMTYs8-4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__XfMTYs8-4
Uploaded by AdamKokesh on Jan 5, 2012

[Hatha Sunahara]

RP's foreign policy ideas appeal to me. So do his views on civil liberties. I am sure he will end the wars on terror and drugs, which I consider to be dishonest and tyrannical. I'm sure he will fight tyranny, and restore the constitution to America. And run the government in accordance with traditional American values. All these things about Ron Paul appeal to me.

I have one significant reservation about RP though. He says he will cut $1 Trillion out of the government budget, and get rid of the Departments of Energy,Commerce, Education and others. Given how much of our economy depends on spending by the US government, a sizable cut like that all at once would cause an instant deflationary depression. The Austrian economics he believes in say that is necessary to clean out the system. It would force all unproductive businesses to go bankrupt, and allow the economy to rebuild itself on a sounder base. But it would create a lot of unemployment. Given that he thinks the government should stay out of peoples' lives, his policy would be like that of Herbert Hoover, who refused to allow the government to help people who were out of work--so it would result in growing disaffection by the unemployed, who could be a significant portion of the population. That could lead to a revolution, depending on the hardship experienced by the population.

RP says end the Fed. But does he say anything about regulating the big banks that own the Fed? His policy would be to deregulate everything. Including corporations who are either oligopolies or monopolies. One of the worst economic evils any nation faces are unregulated monopolies. And if they are global corporations, it is the worst economic evil faced by the entire planet. Is he going to let big pharma, big oil, big agriculture, and big finance keep ripping us off like they are now doing? Is he going to just leave them alone? And make the government smaller so we, the people, can't stand up to the power of these giants?

I just wonder how far into the future RP's supporters have thought out the consequences of his policies, and if people are willing to endure those consequences. It would bring great disorder to our lives for a short time perhaps, or if it is botched, for a longer period. Everybody seems to be beguiled by his promise of Peace and Liberty as much as they were with Obama's 'Hope' and 'Change'. We got hope and change now. I am a bit hesitant about what Peace and Liberty involve if they are accompanied by suffering and poverty.

I hope I'm not offending the more die-hard RP supporters by asking these questions. I'm not trying to undermine RP--he's the best politician out there, but I wish he would tell us what his vision of America in 2015 is if he becomes President. I can already imagine what America will be in 2015 if Obama wins the next election. Maybe we need a revolution.

Hatha

[NOOB]

RP's foreign policy ideas appeal to me. So do his views on civil liberties. I am sure he will end the wars on terror and drugs, which I consider to be dishonest and tyrannical. I'm sure he will fight tyranny, and restore the constitution to America. And run the government in accordance with traditional American values. All these things about Ron Paul appeal to me.

I have one significant reservation about RP though. He says he will cut $1 Trillion out of the government budget, and get rid of the Departments of Energy,Commerce, Education and others. Given how much of our economy depends on spending by the US government, a sizable cut like that all at once would cause an instant deflationary depression. The Austrian economics he believes in say that is necessary to clean out the system. It would force all unproductive businesses to go bankrupt, and allow the economy to rebuild itself on a sounder base. But it would create a lot of unemployment. Given that he thinks the government should stay out of peoples' lives, his policy would be like that of Herbert Hoover, who refused to allow the government to help people who were out of work--so it would result in growing disaffection by the unemployed, who could be a significant portion of the population. That could lead to a revolution, depending on the hardship experienced by the population.

RP says end the Fed. But does he say anything about regulating the big banks that own the Fed? His policy would be to deregulate everything. Including corporations who are either oligopolies or monopolies. One of the worst economic evils any nation faces are unregulated monopolies. And if they are global corporations, it is the worst economic evil faced by the entire planet. Is he going to let big pharma, big oil, big agriculture, and big finance keep ripping us off like they are now doing? Is he going to just leave them alone? And make the government smaller so we, the people, can't stand up to the power of these giants?

I just wonder how far into the future RP's supporters have thought out the consequences of his policies, and if people are willing to endure those consequences. It would bring great disorder to our lives for a short time perhaps, or if it is botched, for a longer period. Everybody seems to be beguiled by his promise of Peace and Liberty as much as they were with Obama's 'Hope' and 'Change'. We got hope and change now. I am a bit hesitant about what Peace and Liberty involve if they are accompanied by suffering and poverty.

I hope I'm not offending the more die-hard RP supporters by asking these questions. I'm not trying to undermine RP--he's the best politician out there, but I wish he would tell us what his vision of America in 2015 is if he becomes President. I can already imagine what America will be in 2015 if Obama wins the next election. Maybe we need a revolution.

Hatha

I think the way the big corps remain monopolies is because of government. A good book that touches on this is Tom Woods "rollback". I think if government got out of picking winners and losers a true free market would keep these things in check. Our system of crony capitalism fosters the monopolies.

They use the regulations in their favor and are mostly written by the corps or lobbyists for the corps.

[jimswift]

This comes to mind....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C4gRRk2i-M

[jimswift]

My 'Imagine' question is about the emergency powers and all the executive orders? Would he sign or not?

[po boy]

Hatha, very good questions. The regulations hurt small businesses who could be a boon by employing local people therefore stimulating business locally.

As you well know big business works with government to create regulations that squeeze out little guys thus leading to dependencies on their services and then straining local safety nets.

It used to be if someone was polluting your property or causing you a damage you would sue them directly instead of some .gov agency therefor collecting your compensation rather than the .gov and you getting a small amount or nothing.

It really will come down to consumers making wise decisions for themselves when dealing with products whether investment or other wise and if damaged by those decisions figuring out if one would have damage that could be proven.

Peace and liberty are the freedom to fail or to succeed.

Hope that made some sense.

[DMac]

There is some ironic foreshadowing in that should Paul get (s)elected president an enormous depression would follow, possibly leading to revolution (also known as civil war). He did write a book called The Revolution: A Manifesto.

A buddy of mine that moved to the US about 10 years ago and did not know about RP adamantly believes that should he win, then this is what the PTB desire.

The John Birch Society swooning is a big red flag. As is the Paul's big money supporter, Peter Theil, who attends Bilderberg for crying out loud.

[Neuro]

Hatha I think a big chunk of those 1 Trillion Ron Paul is planning on cutting from the budget is destined to go to big corporations... I do agree though it will cause a significant deflationary depression doing the cuts, but it will free up a lot of capital, that could be used for investments after the plunge, in new area's which were not dependent on government handouts...

[po boy]

The alternative is to have .gov protections to protect yourself from your own bad choices for a portion of your labor eventually that service and it's accompanying burden becomes so great that those who produce grow weary and revolt anyway.When you add in democratic voting by non-producers for entitlements that portion grows along with the resentment of both sides.

Revolution will come either way.

[vacuum]

No matter who becomes president, there will be tough times ahead. If RP is the president, we may end up more like Iceland than, say, Greece.

[Hatha Sunahara]

The big problem is that markets are not free. Just look at the gold market and how it is manipulated, and how corrupt the regulating agencies are--the SEC and the CFTC. Also, it slipped by me in my post above that cutting $1 trillion would necessarily be followed by a $1 trillion reduction in taxes. But this is like the peace dividend after the fall of the Soviet Union--it may never happen. We could get a $1 trillion reduction in the government budget and no tax decrease. I think the deflationary depression would be greatly mitigated by bankruptcies--especially if the big banks go bankrupt--as they are currently--and they can write off a whole lot of debt. That's what the big banks are trying to avoid now--writing off any assets--even the toxic ones that will never be paid. With bankruptcies, debt will disappear, and a tax cut should stimulate the economy far more than any government stimulus program.

But I think Ron Paul needs to create an arm's-length distance between the government and corporations instead of being in bed with them. If he gets rid of the laws that favor the monopolies,, they will crumble on their own--and that would be good for America. But will TPTB let him do that? We shall see.


Hatha

[messianicdruid]

I hope I'm not offending the more die-hard RP supporters by asking these questions. Hatha

You may want to look around at www.killtheempire.blogspot.com they are discussing these things.

I figure get him elected, then we can sort out all the economic questions. That alone will accomplish much.

[JohnQPublic]

Critique of Ron Paul’s Austerity Plan (http://tarpley.net/2011/12/28/critique-of-ron-pauls-austerity-plan/)


Webster G. Tarpley on Guns and Butter
Guns and Butter (http://www.kpfa.org/archive/id/76422)
December 28, 2011


Interesting, but WT does not account for what the federal government is chartered to do relative to what was cut. Agree with WT that some of these programs are "good" things, but is it the federal government's responsibility?

[Hatha Sunahara]

Thanks JQP. I listened to that last night. Revived a lot of my questions.


Hatha

[JohnQPublic]

My biggest issue with Ron Paul is what his policies will do to deal with the collapsed derivatives bubble. I suspect he would say let the banks collapse, don't bail them out. This may be the right answer. But no regulation could be just as bad as too much.

[po boy]

My biggest issue with Ron Paul is what his policies will do to deal with the collapsed derivatives bubble. I suspect he would say let the banks collapse, don't bail them out. This may be the right answer. But no regulation could be just as bad as too much.


Simple don't deal with banks and usury.

[Hatha Sunahara]

I would vote to let the big banks die. I would also support RP endorsing Bill Still's Monetary Reform Act. The government should create its own money and not have to pay interest on it. Since the big banks own the Fed, the Fed should die with them.


Hatha

[Joe King]

I would vote to let the big banks die. I would also support RP endorsing Bill Still's Monetary Reform Act. The government should create its own money and not have to pay interest on it. Since the big banks own the Fed, the Fed should die with them.


HathaI like Bills stuff too, but the problem with that is it would require the politicians in DC to exercise fiscal restraint.
Can ya even imagine how much "money" they'd create if Congress had a magic button they could press to create the "money"? They'd end up blowing the economy wide open and in short order.

ETA: The only way I see that as having any real chance of success would be if the rest of the Constitution was strictly adhered to as it was intended the day it was written.

I say the rest of the Constitution because Bills plan seems to violate it. ie only gold/silver coin.