Upgrade hell... a tale of 2 computers

[Gaillo]

Greets!

It's been in the back of my mind for several months now to upgrade my shop network (7 machines on 100mb ethernet). A recent gigabit-speed 1000BASE-T ethernet install at a friend's house awed me with its blistering speed, but I'm typically of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mindset and usually put off upgrades as long as possible, for reasons you'll soon read about!

OK, about a week ago, a failed DVD burner drive and sudden problems with my patched-together router/switch combo starting to flake out and needing to be reset 2 or 3 times a day finally convinced me it was time to pull the plug... I selected a gigabit switch (Zyxel) and some 1Gbit NIC cards (TP-Link) with the VERY APPRECIATED help from forum member Chad. I ordered the parts, along with a pair of Asus DVD burners, and received everything yesterday morning.

First... the good. The switch worked PERFECTLY right out of the box, I uncabled my old kludge router/switch combo and plugged everything into the Zyxel... and it just worked. Beautiful. The Asus DVD burners went into 2 of my machines, replacing the dead drive and upgrading an old 2X Pioneer burner in another machine. No problems there... they work well, are quiet, and FAST!

Now the horror story. Installed one of the NIC cards into an old Windows 98SE machine... installed the driver, then BLEU SCREEN OF DEATH on reboot. Fuck! 5 hours of troubleshooting, experimentation, cursing, begging, everything short of praying (I do have my limits! ;) ) later, I finally figured out that a driver file for the RAID controller on my motherboard was conflicting with the NIC driver. Since I don't use the RAID feature of the motherboard, I got rid of the file and... SUCCESS! Worked perfectly.

Little did I know, the fun was just beginning... and by "fun" I really mean "hair-pulling frustrating misery and torture". Installed the last NIC card and driver in the last machine, and it rebooted with a "found new hardware - Sound Card" message. Since the machine ALREADY had a sound card and drivers installed, this was puzzling, and NOTHING I could do would bypass the total system crash following its attempted install of a driver that was already installed! Double Fuck! I finally ended up resolving the problem with a drive reformat, followed by a COMPLETE OS RE-INSTALL, followed by re-installation of all the software packages I use. A scant 9 hours later had a functioning machine again. Good God... I understood the appeal of Apple desktop machines at that point... Microsoft blows odiferous hairy goats when it comes to "plug and play"! More like "Plug and PRAY" - pray that the shit being installed doesn't brick your computer while it's screwing around with the DLL's, VXD's, and registry settings. Fuck Microsoft and their sorry excuse for an operating system! :( It's almost enough to drive a guy to WINE (The Linux package, AND the alcoholic beverage! ;D)

Anyway, all's well that ends well... machines are back to doing what they did before, and all it cost me was an entire productive day that I could have spent making money instead! :o

Fuck.

[palani]

Welcome to the wonderful world of Bill Gates.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2n7m8vq.jpg

Hang around a couple of years and we will repeat this positive learning experience (and stop messing around with the lil Orphan girl!!!)

[FreeEnergy]

Gaillo, is that Zyxel router? Wireless? Do you use wireless or it just came with it? If don't use, turn it off, if you can, of course. Routers that use open source routers software can do that (Netgear), sometimes they even have hardware button. Won't tell ya why (guess), you'll thank me later.

[Gaillo]

Gaillo, is that Zyxel router? Wireless? Do you use wireless or it just came with it? If don't use, turn it off, if you can, of course. Routers that use open source routers software can do that (Netgear), sometimes they even have hardware button. Won't tell ya why (guess), you'll thank me later.

It's a switch, not a router... and it doesn't have wireless capability.
Shop is hard-wired Cat-5E everywhere, and isn't connected to broadband or any 'net connection. No wireless anything. Bulletproof way to prevent hacking and viruses! ;)

[Vaughn Pollux]

A few notes:

1) NIC cards were always "fun" in the olden days, in my experience.
2) Your OS is from the olden days.
3) On "the appeal of Apple desktop machines" - let's compare apples to apples here... have you tried installing a new gigabit NIC in a 15 year old Apple? ;)

I'm sorry :( about your troubles, I remember going through all of that (many years ago, though), and I must say CONGRATS on figuring it all out and getting a new switch, the drives, and NICs for that many machines in just 9 hours. Fine job, sir. My hat's off to you. If you're lucky, that's a several hour job at least on those old platforms. At worst, you could spend days trying to get it all to work. Ugh, I'm cringing just thinking about it.

In the future, if avoiding driver/compatibility issues is a main concern, the best solution would be Windows 7 (if you continue PC). Everything "just works" on the new OSes, Mac and Win. Windows XP was a GODSEND on the plug and play and bluescreen fronts, and Windows 7 truly is a dream by comparison. A good dream :P I know I wouldn't have the patience to deal with the probable hangups installing a new NIC into an old machine running 98 SE (oh wow... :( those were truly the dark ages for PC users), so I wouldn't even bother. If you're required to do that, then my only comment is that, yeah, your time involved as well as your solution are, in my experience, typical and to be expected.

I do realize the possibility that if you are still running 98 SE, you might be on hardware that might not run Windows 7 and would then obviously require new machines, which is possibly outside the realm of possibility here. But, truth be told, there are indeed pros and cons as well as headache inducers included in all OSes. The new OSes, though are really nice, no matter what you choose.

How many port switch did you end up getting?

[MAGNES]

Greets!

It's been in the back of my mind for several months now to upgrade my shop network



Wow Gaillo, 7 machines.

I did some stuff this holiday season myself, I run one computer and backup.

98SE machine, ran one of those as a backup,
best thing that I ever did was throw it away, kept the burner.

I gave up on running raid 1 on my machine, just use backup drive.

I wanted to thank Chad too for helping Gaillo who helps us.



Gaillo, is that Zyxel router? Wireless? Do you use wireless or it just came with it? If don't use, turn it off, if you can, of course. Routers that use open source routers software can do that (Netgear), sometimes they even have hardware button. Won't tell ya why (guess), you'll thank me later.

I think it would benefit many people here if you told us more about this with links if you can.

[Book]

2) Your OS is from the olden days.



1) Mint Linux (http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1889) would have been a fast, free, and easy install on an old 98SE machine.

2) Windows XP Pro SP3 (auto-activated) (https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/6854433/Windows_xp_pro_sp3_activated_2010_by_%28oldBen%29) is available for free at PirateBay.

[General of Darkness]

Hey G we have the same problems with upgrading older voice mail systems. The old operating systems won't run the upgrades. When dealing with older computers they're just not designed to handle the faster speeds etc, a MAC won't fix that, and I'm a MAC guy. MAC went from their proprietary processors to jew run Intel. Just saying.

[Gaillo]

Vaughn,
I bought the 8-port switch... thought about a 16, but couldn't justify the extra cost. I already have enough machines in the shop as it is, and if I ever do expand to beyond 8, I can always link in another 4 or 8 port router for the lesser-used machines.

P.S. - Yes, I'm still using 98SE on about half the machines, XP on the rest. I need the native DOS mode of 98 for some of my software, emulation windows in XP and newer OS's won't work - I've tried.

[gunDriller]

i would reply but my browser keeps crashing ;) SERIOUSLY !

[chad]

sweet! glad it worked out. win 98 is hell on networks; you're lucky it only wasted one day! :D

[Neuro]

i would reply but my browser keeps crashing ;) SERIOUSLY !

Anyone seen gunDriller lately? Long time since he replied...

;D

[FreeEnergy]

It's a switch, not a router... and it doesn't have wireless capability.
Shop is hard-wired Cat-5E everywhere, and isn't connected to broadband or any 'net connection. No wireless anything. Bulletproof way to prevent hacking and viruses! ;)

nice.

then one more idea. don't buy any "internet over power lines" gadgets. same reason, not the viruses, the OTHER viruses.

[TomD]

I was default IT guy at my office back in the Win 98 days. What a freaking nightmare!!!!! Every time anything changed it was hours of cussing and headache.

Now, at my house I have 4 computers (3-Win 7 and 1-Vista), a multi port access point for the TV and Blu Ray and a printer on a wireless network. Everything pretty much configures itself these days. To put a new computer on the network takes around 30-40 seconds to ID the network and type in the security code.

I wouldn't go back to 98 on a bet, rather use green pine cones as toilet paper.

What DOS based software do you have, and old copy of AutoCad? Considering what a new copy and 8 licenses would cost, I maybe could see 98.

[Gaillo]

nice.

then one more idea. don't buy any "internet over power lines" gadgets. same reason, not the viruses, the OTHER viruses.

The NSA virus? Wish somebody would come up with a cure for that one! ;D

[palani]

and old copy of AutoCad?

I have Autocad 2.14. It runs under DOS and the entire program fits on a 1.44 M floppy. Funny thing is it runs the same commands as the newest versions.

[Neuro]

I have Autocad 2.14. It runs under DOS and the entire program fits on a 1.44 M floppy. Funny thing is it runs the same commands as the newest versions.

I worked a bit on AutoCad in the late 80's. If I remember correctly it was version 2.10. It was quite hard work to make drawings on it, cause you had to put in the co-ordinates manually of whatever geometric structure you wanted in the drawing, more time consuming than doing an analogue drawing. The entrepreneur wanted me to do it anyway, cause he was using CAM machinery to manufacture the parts. However his CAM machinery didn't work with AutoCad... So the programming for the machines had to be done separately manually anyway. His company went bankrupt a few years later. His main product was mounts for rifle sights.

Interesting to have been in the early stages of the integration of information technology and industrial production though. A couple of years later I worked as a production planner at a company within the ABB concern, but after a year I was made redundant, because information technology could plan production almost as good as I could... Anyway by that time I've pretty much had it with the corporate sector, so I went traveling! Never had a 'real' job since then... Being a chiropractor I just consider fun!

[TomD]

I have Autocad 2.14. It runs under DOS and the entire program fits on a 1.44 M floppy.

Heh! That's funny! But how did they get the slide rule inside a floppy case?

Dating myself here but when I started in engineering school everyone walked around with a slide rule strapped to their belt, like a revolver. I had a K&E. I dropped out and came back after a stint in the Marines and a year or two working as a framing carpenter. I was a little more motivated the second time. During the interim, calculators had appeared, I had a HP45 that cost me over $400 (in 1974 dollars).

[monty]

I was default IT guy at my office back in the Win 98 days. What a freaking nightmare!!!!! Every time anything changed it was hours of cussing and headache.

I was in a similar position at work in the 90's with Win 98. It WAS a NIGHTMARE!!! I upgraded those computers to Win 2000 Pro. That move eliminated most of our problems.

[gunDriller]

I was default IT guy at my office back in the Win 98 days. What a freaking nightmare!!!!! Every time anything changed it was hours of cussing and headache.

computers have a near-infinite ability to cause people to take the Lord's name in Vain.

personally, i think the Lord has broad shoulders, and can survive the abuse.


i got back on using Mozilla's "Seamonkey" browser, a derivative of one of the best versions of Netscape, 4.79.

my own computer is hosed too.

[palani]

his CAM machinery didn't work with AutoCad... So the programming for the machines had to be done separately manually anyway.
Back in the days when post processors controlled NC processes and NC programmers did not know how to read NC code. I wouldn't swear it is any different today though.

We had a problem once with a lathe turning an internal thread and it came out looking like crap every time. Busted tooling and a scrap part. Electrician had spent several days troubleshooting and could find nothing wrong. I had them run each pass of the tooling one thread at a time. After 20 passes on the part and a perfect thread the last pass had left the tooling 1/2 inch in the part and a 1/4 inch away and the next move was going to be an interpolated x/z move to home. I pointed out the situation to the NC programmer and he said "Let's see". So on cycle start we had one more scrap part and busted tooling. You see, these NC programmers aren't exactly rocket scientists.

[palani]

Heh! That's funny! But how did they get the slide rule inside a floppy case?

Dating myself here but when I started in engineering school everyone walked around with a slide rule strapped to their belt
I used Pickett myself. Bamboo slide rules didn't seem too durable.

Slide rules are speed tools. Calculators can't compete (unless they have been pre-programmed).

[TomD]

I used Pickett myself. Bamboo slide rules didn't seem too durable.


Still got my Dad's slide rule around here somewhere, from US Military Academy (West Point) 1939-1943. He used the same one 6 years later (identical to mine in the early 1970's) after the war to get a MS in Chemical Engineering and for years later. Can you imagine any piece of technology remaining unchanged for decades?

[gunDriller]

Still got my Dad's slide rule around here somewhere, from US Military Academy (West Point) 1939-1943. He used the same one 6 years later (identical to mine in the early 1970's) after the war to get a MS in Chemical Engineering and for years later. Can you imagine any piece of technology remaining unchanged for decades?

my Dad used to pay me to do arithmetic calculations for his consulting work.

he was a chemical engineer too, in the pulp & paper (forest products) industry.