Cops Shoot Man With Metal Bar 10 times Killing Him

[solid]

More hypotheticals..

Hypotheticals are how you TRAIN. It's how you learn, and prepare. You can walk through life not training if you wish. Scenario testing is the BEST training anyone can do.

We used simunitions, expensive training, in academy. All hypothetical situations, to prepare for real one. Best damn training I've ever been through.

[Buddha]

Apparently what if questions cause some here the discomfort, of actually thinking about them. Oh, the pain of a what if question...

You're wrong. There are no what ifs. The guy comes and smashes the window out of a fucking Carl Jr. I'm leaving. End of story

[Buddha]

Hypotheticals are how you TRAIN. It's how you learn, and prepare. You can walk through life not training if you wish. Scenario testing is the BEST training anyone can do.

We used simunitions, expensive training, in academy. All hypothetical situations, to prepare for real one. Best damn training I've ever been through.

You train for the hypothetical, then put the hypothetical into reality at every opportunity.

[dys]

He would have stopped, then what? Would you just let him leave, even though he caused a lot of damage, made your daughter scared and crying, and upset your peaceful wammie burger meal?

Would you try to take him into custody, and if so, what if he attacked you with his ice axe? Would you want one of the other decent folks, there, with their gun out, to watch your back?

These questions are to make you THINK, about what you would do.

So the insinuation is that because he needed to be subdued, that justifies the murder. Not so at all.

dys

[Book]

The guy comes and smashes the window out of a fucking Carl Jr. I'm leaving. End of story



http://www.grandsierraresort.com/uploads/dining/casual-dining/johnny-rockets/johnnyrockets_family.jpg

A real man would just shoot that rude thug then finish his delicious still-warm Whammy Burger.

::) you pussy

[ximmy]

http://www.grandsierraresort.com/uploads/dining/casual-dining/johnny-rockets/johnnyrockets_family.jpg

A real man would just shoot that rude thug then finish his delicious still-warm Whammy Burger.

::) you pussy

"I listened to the scanner.
I heard about Whammyburger.
Fucking fantastic!
It's a bunch of niggers, right?
On Tv, it's always white kids.
But when you go in there,
it's nothing but a bunch of niggers!
They'll spit on your food
if you' re not nice.
I know all about it."

[Book]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnWlTyZLQhQ&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnWlTyZLQhQ

In a decent town the Manager would stop this with a twelve-gauge shotgun and not even involve the police.

::)

[Buddha]

Too bad that nice mother will be dealing with a alcohol/drug addicted son, and a daughter with a mixed child in a few years.

[k-os]

Thank you for your polite response. I believe this thread is a worthwhile discussion, and it seems I am not the only one.


Well K, I believe that if everyone there was armed as they should be, and that guy walked in and started smashing the place up, and the patrons pulled out firearms, the guy would have stopped right away. Which is the answer to your second question.


I would like to think that he would stop too, but considering that he didn't stop when cops had guns pointed at him, or pepper spray shot at him, I am not sure if it would be likely that he'd stop if the patrons pulled guns on him. I still believe it's a case of suicide-by-cop.



As far as the first one, responsible gun owners will not shoot unless their lives are in immediate danger. (Cops are not responsible, as they demonstrate time and time again)

I agree that cops do get a special free pass to use excessive force, and I am not OK with that. In a perfect world, they would have to defend themselves in criminal court (just like everyone else) every time excessive force is used. Also, in a perfect world, an actual "fair and impartial jury", and presumption of innocence would be readily available for such a trial. Based solely on my friends and acquaintances, I think there are too many people who hate cops for a fair and impartial jury to exist for them. So, there's that . . . no perfect world for us.



Now that being said, if the scene was mayhem and the guy was swinging the pipe-turned-pickaxe around with total abandon and the intent to kill, and a number of patrons shot him, so be it.


The video doesn't show what the guy was doing with the pipe (or whatever) before the video started. Maybe he was swinging the pipe like a madman before the video began. (I skipped the what-if and went for a "maybe".) :)



The thing to really understand, K, is that police are supposed to do their best to serve and protect. They are public servants (supposedly). So they are obligated to take risks in that job description that you and I are not obligated to take. Citizens (I feel dirty when I use that word, Palani! LOL) have the right to defend themselves, and the right to bear arms for that purpose. If a citizen is at risk and forced to defend themself, it is different than if a group of officers are at risk, because that risk is inherent to the career path they have chosen.

I am pretty sure that cops have the right to defend themselves too. (10 rounds is insane, though!) I don't know if it was a pipe or a pick axe, but the implement did seem to have a pointy protrusion at the end of it. While I can't tell from the video the guy's actual intent, on second look, he was shuffling toward one of the cops in a threatening manner. I could just imagine the end of that thing going through someone's skull.

I'll say this, Awoke, I would like to believe that if that guy shuffled toward you in that way, and I had a chance to shoot the guy and save your skull, I would. I think you would say the same thing for me. Why isn't it OK for the police officer to save another person from what appears to be an attempt at an attack?

In the video, do you see the guy shuffling toward the other cop right before the shots are fired?



Not only are they supposed to serve and protect you, but they are also supposed to serve and protect that guy with the pipe-pickaxe-bender-deadly weapon. That is why they used to be trained in non-lethal submission tactics.

The risks are well known, and it has been proven a multitude of times that "certain types" of people are attracted to that lifestyle. In fact, that type of personality is usually inclined to either career criminalism or career NWO pig, and will typically migrate to one or the other. Not always, but usually.


I am sure that I am going to take a rash of crap for admitting this, but . . . when I was 18, I wanted to be a cop. My boyfriend at the time talked me out of it, and I am grateful for it. I was obviously naive, but I really wanted to help people! Can you imagine that? I am not saying that this is the mindset of most people going into the police academy, but it's not exactly uncommon for young people to be so naive.



But regardless of all that, in this case, instead of using other methods to subdue this guy, they just shot him.


They did try pepper spray which seemed to have zero effect on him.

[Book]

Just the way Statist Book likes it.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29Da3Ep2hhs

I think we should just shoot ignorant rude people like this without even involving the police.

::) ...while you keep making excuses for them

[solid]

I am sure that I am going to take a rash of crap for admitting this, but . . . when I was 18, I wanted to be a cop. My boyfriend at the time talked me out of it, and I am grateful for it. I was obviously naive, but I really wanted to help people! Can you imagine that? I am not saying that this is the mindset of most people going into the police academy, it's not exactly uncommon for young people to be so naive.

I can relate to this. I was completely naive when I signed up. Boy, what an eye-opening experience I had no clue what I was getting myself into. They train you well in academy, it's 7 months 10 hours a day, and the washout rate is high. The battery of tests you have to pass gives a good feeling of accomplishment. Then you hit the streets, bright-eyed full of knowledge. Then, you get a huge dose of reality.

I'll say this, when you are in these types of situations, they are completely dynamic. Dealing with enraged people, heck, any person, is so unpredictable, that you really do your best, and are often forced to react in ways that you don't want. You don't want things to happen, but they do. Things can go badly, quickly, and you are left to your training and muscle memory.

Notice, in this incident, in fractions of a second, the situation turned violent and the cop reacted with his training. 10 shots was over the top, the last 5 I'm sure were adrenalin induced.

[willie pete]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnWlTyZLQhQ&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnWlTyZLQhQ

In a decent town the Manager would stop this with a twelve-gauge shotgun and not even involve the police.

::)


were they flinging poo in that video?

[Tumbleweed]

I tried reading all the bullshit that's being posted here and just couldn't work my way threw it. Have any of you ever been in a fight? I've been in plenty. When that guy walked past the cop with the pepper spray he should have tackled him. the chickenshit cop with the pepper spray just pissed the guy off and he was defending himself. the cop who shot him just wanted to shoot someone. I've been on some juries and if I were on one about this shooting the cops would be going to jail for murder.

That guy didn't need to die.

[solid]

That guy didn't need to die.

He chose to die. The police were the tool he used to commit suicide.

That's the reality. You all can complain, but that's a fact. You come at a cop with a weapon, you will die.

I've got plenty of personal beefs with law enforcement. I've honestly wanted to start a "my issue with cops" thread, but I hold my tongue. Some things shouldn't, needn't, be said.

Fucking asshole shouldn't put people into this situation. You don't go apeshit, commit a bunch of crimes, endanger folks, then attack cops. This will always end badly. For everyone involved.

[Awoke]

He chose to die. The police were the tool he used to commit suicide.

You are so desperate to justify this needless killing that you will try anything.




You're so horny to talk about hypotheticals.

- What if the owner of the resturant was an ex-business partner that wiped that guy out through dirty business tactics?

- What if the 10 employees that were working there all gang raped the guys wife?

- What if the resturant was a front for a pedo ring and his sister was locked up in the basement, and he was trying to resure her, and even the cops were in on the pedo ring?

- What if the guy travelled back in time to save us all from a mad biologist that was going to quit his job at the resturant and go on to develop a virus that killed of 99.999% of the global population, and really he was doing us a favor, saving all of humankind from the future of certain death?

Do you get my point? "What if" is nothing more than a distraction in this discussion.

One thing I would like to know more about with this incident is if he went inside and exclusively smashed "things" or if he went inside and started smashing people. Did anyone actually get hurt? (Besides the obvious "5 acceptable shots" and the other "5 shots that might have been excessive")

[solid]

You're so horny to talk about hypotheticals.

Awoke, we are just going to have to disagree, and leave it at that.

Regarding the facts, imo, this shooting was justified. It was also, and unfortunate situation.

Regarding hypotheticals. Since we know the outcome of this incident, I do think, hypothetically, the situation could have been handled better. At that time though, nobody knew this dude was going to attack in a fraction of second. That's where hypotheticals come in, how could this situation been handled differently without resulting in a loss of life.

[Awoke]

Nobody knew he was going to attack? I thought that was the whole crux of your defense for this. You've been saying over and over that he assaulted the police.

I agree. We disagree.

[solid]

Nobody knew he was going to attack? I thought that was the whole crux of your defense for this. You've been saying over and over that he assaulted the police.
.

Awoke, nobody knew he was going to attack, until he attacked....there was fractions of seconds there, and the only thing to do was pull the trigger. Up until that point, they were mostly talking to the guy.

I think using pepper spray was a mistake. It looks to have encouraged his violent response. They didn't know that was going to happen though...

Never underestimate an angry person who has an ice axe in his hand. People are unpredictable.

I could give plenty of personal life experiences to show this point.

[Awoke]

He didn't attack.

[Son-of-Liberty]

Looks like this thread is going marathon?
For the guys that think the cop should ave jumped him...
Let me ask some of you guys that have been trained in self defense and/or martial arts...if you had that pipe/pick type wepon in your hands and were jumped from behind...could you have made good use of it to really fuck the guy's shit up that jumped you?
Next, ask yourself would you be quick to jump a person (that has already proven to be enraged) that might be able to handle this weapon well?
Why would a cop take that risk? Remember the guy was already confirmed to be violent and enraged.
The jumping him scenario doesn't wash with me. Sorry

I have a fair bit of martial arts experience including some weapons and if tackled from behind the way he was holding the ice axe he would have no chance to swing it in a deadly manner. First of all he was holding it at his side in a relaxed position not at the ready. Second he wasn't looking in the cops direction and would not have seen it coming. Third the cop could have tackled him and easily wrapped up the arm holding the weapon. The guys arm was hanging relaxed at his side. If the cop botched it and missed the arm how would you swing that thing back behind you with any force at all? Lastly there were four cops not more then two seconds away. This guy is not going to overpower the cop and kill him in 2 seconds before the other cops get there and restrain him. He's not fucking Jackie Chan.

Before getting pepper sprayed this guy wasn't planning on attacking anyone. The cops escalated it by pepper spraying. When he tried to fend off another shot of spray he got shot. They fucked this up plain and simple. Could have used the dog or tackled or tried talking him down for a few minutes instead they hope the spray works, it pisses the guy off and they shoot him 9-10 times.

[Book]

http://images.wikia.com/mayberry/images/e/e1/Andy_griffith.jpg

Didn't your daddy teach how to behave in a restaurant boy?

::)

[solid]

I have a fair bit of martial arts experience including some weapons and if tackled from behind the way he was holding the ice axe he would have no chance to swing it in a deadly manner.

Ice axes are very sharp. You don't even need to swing one for them to be deadly. If they tackled this guy, and he ended up falling on the axe seriously injuring himself, that would be bad. Or, if the cop tackling him fell on it during the scuffle.

For most of us, going bare hands with a guy with a weapon is a very stupid thing to do. For those who are trained in MMA, and such, don't be overconfident the outcome will go the way you want it to go. Things go badly wrong sometimes.

They should have tazered this guy. That would have been the best thing to do.

[EE_]

I have a fair bit of martial arts experience including some weapons and if tackled from behind the way he was holding the ice axe he would have no chance to swing it in a deadly manner. First of all he was holding it at his side in a relaxed position not at the ready. Second he wasn"t looking in the cops direction and would not have seen it coming. Third the cop could have tackled him and eassily wrapped up the arm holding the weapon. The guys arm was hanging relaxed at his side. If the cop botched it and missed the arm how would you swing that thing back behind you with any force at all? Lastly there were four cops not more then two seconds away. This guy is not going to overpower the cop and kill him in 2 seconds before the other cops get there and restrain him. He's not fucking Jackie chan.

Before getting pepper sprayed this guy wasn't planning on attacking anyone. The cops esculated it by pepper spraying. When he tried to fend off another shot of spray he got shot. They fucked this up plain and simple. Could have used the dog or tackled or tried talking him down for a few minutes instead they hope the spray works, it pisses the guy off and they shoot him.

You make some valid points
I don't have combat training but in my mind I would use a tool like he's was holding as a ram with two hands in the middle, using the butt of the pipe and not swing it like an axe.

I do think the outcome could have been different had the cops approached him differently, yeah they probably fucked up, but the person that really fucked this up is the guy that's dead.
The second cop that fired 5 rounds looked like he just wanted in on the action, cop sex?

He may have been just some angry guy or he may have been a gang member that has no respect for anyone's life?
I'd like to see a follow up report on who he was.

[solid]

You make some valid points
I don't have combat training but in my mind I would use a tool like he's was holding as a ram with two hands in the middle, using the butt of the pipe and not swing it like an axe.

I do think the outcome could have been different had the cops approached him differently, yeah they probably fucked up, but the person that really fucked this up is the guy that's dead.
The second cop that fired 5 rounds looked like he just wanted in on the action, cop sex?

He may have been just some angry guy or he may have been a gang member that has no respect for anyone's life?
I'd like to see a follow up report on who he was.

There is a lot of valid points. Here's something to think about....if you tackle the guy, he's going to fight. Pretty much 100% chance of that. Tackling is an aggressive thing to do, and prompts an aggressive response.

If you stay out of striking range, and talk to the guy. He may, or may not, fight. Most of the time, sane people put down their weapons.

They fucked up using the pepper spray, imo. That prompted an aggressive response, plus, the cop who sprayed him was in striking range of the axe.

When the cops show up, the best situations do not escalate and are resolved peacefully. Unfortunately, sometimes cops just make things worse. A necessary worse most of the time. That guy had to be taken into custody, for the safety of everyone around and because he committed crimes.

[DMac]

This story reminds me of an old clip where a guy with a katana was brought down with fire hoses and a ladder:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtRgweQxXi8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtRgweQxXi8

10 hour ordeal.

Maybe I'm coming around to the "should not have shot, period" group from my original, "I don't agree but I understand" perspective.

[ximmy]

This story reminds me of an old clip where a guy with a katana was brought down with fire hoses and a ladder:

10 hour ordeal.

Maybe I'm coming around to the "should not have shot, period" group from my original, "I don't agree but I understand" perspective.


Dude in OP video caused cops to miss out on precious donut time... nuff said...

[Awoke]

I am of the opinion that they shouldn't have had their guns drawn right off the get-go. Negotiating with their hand resting on their taser would have spared a life.

[Son-of-Liberty]

Ice axes are very sharp. You don't even need to swing one for them to be deadly. If they tackled this guy, and he ended up falling on the axe seriously injuring himself, that would be bad. Or, if the cop tackling him fell on it during the scuffle.

For most of us, going bare hands with a guy with a weapon is a very stupid thing to do. For those who are trained in MMA, and such, don't be overconfident the outcome will go the way you want it to go. Things go badly wrong sometimes.

They should have tazered this guy. That would have been the best thing to do.



Ice axes are fairly sharp but not so sharp that they are just going to slide in like a knife would. You need some momentum. He wasn't holding it in a manner that would allow him to do so effectively especially if the guy was directly behind. Also the officer would have body armor. I have heard that bullet proof vests don't work great against a pointy knife or ice pick but this isn't quite that sharp.

You do make a point that someone could fall on it but really the probability is low. That cop could have been hit by another car while responding to the call.

I think the thing that angers me is that the police are really one of today's warrior classes. They should be willing to get physical and accept that they might be injured once and awhile. Their job is to protect us from criminals and even from ourselves on occasion. If this were not the case they wouldn't respond to calls where people were threatening suicide and they wouldn't give out tickets for no seat belts.

We don't know the situation but most of us if put in the wrong situation could be pushed to the breaking point. Sure this guy looked like a thug but maybe he was a nice guy who found out his girlfriend cheated on him with the store manager and he snapped. If the cops had reacted the way they used to 30-40 years ago he might have gotten a beat down but he wouldn't be dead.

Police these days are not trained properly in my opinion. It is partly their mentality but also just the type of training and lack of training in some areas that results in these types of responses.

A few years ado at the martial arts club that I used to train at we had a couple of police come in to get extra hands on training. I did some sparring and drills with them and their skill level and ability to handle themselves was laughable. Considering that they both outweighed me by 50 lbs. I was about 150 lbs at the time and only had about 1 year experience, about 4 hours a week. Neither of them would have had any chance against me in a hand to hand scrap.

The point I am making is not to say how bad ass I am (i am much more bad ass now :)) but to point out that the level of training the police have is inadequate. They don't have the confidence to handle themselves in many situations and resort to deadly force with little provocation and people end up getting killed when they shouldn't.

[Son-of-Liberty]

This story reminds me of an old clip where a guy with a katana was brought down with fire hoses and a ladder:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtRgweQxXi8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtRgweQxXi8

10 hour ordeal.

Maybe I'm coming around to the "should not have shot, period" group from my original, "I don't agree but I understand" perspective.

That video is a perfect example of how things have changed so much in a few decades and most of us don't realize it or justify the behavior of the police. They really went out of their way to make sure that nobody was hurt badly or killed.

[solid]

Police these days are not trained properly in my opinion..

You make some good points, Son-of-Liberty.

Having gone through the training, my thoughts are I would have liked to have been trained for more hand to hand situations. There was more emphasis on firearm training. Even the firearm training wasn't so much for accuracy, it was all for within 10 yards. Mostly within 5 yards. Hours of constant upholstering and firing, quickly. Drilled into muscle memory. I could, from my hand at my side, unholster and fire 2 shots hitting center mass in 1.5 seconds. I was one of the quickest in the academy.

However, I did end up more confident using a gun, than going hands on with people.

Perhaps, depts tailor their training more to the areas they patrol. In my area, there was so much violence and shootings, firearm training was extremely important. We responded to on average one shooting a night, add that to strongarm robberies, assaults...it was all, lights and sirens craziness.

In short, I would have like to have been more confident in hands on situations. We pulled out our guns, a lot. That's my honest opinion.

[EE_]

2011 Law Enforcement Fatalities
Law Enforcement Officer Fatalities
Preliminary 2011 Numbers
January 3, 2012

2011 2010 % Change
Total Fatalities 177 153 +16%
Firearms-related 71 59 +20%
Traffic-related 64 71
-10%
Other Causes 42 23
+83%

Please note: These numbers reflect total officer fatalities comparing December 31,2011 to December 31, 2010.

2011 Fatalities by State

Florida 14
Texas 13
New York 11
California 10

Georgia 10
Tennessee 7
North Carolina 7

Missouri 6
Ohio 6
Arizona 5
Louisiana 5
New Jersey
5
Michigan 5
Virginia 5
Pennsylvania 4
South Carolina 4
Alabama 3
Illinois 3
Oregon 3
South Dakota 3
Colorado 2
Indiana 2
Iowa 2
Kansas 2
Kentucky 2
Maryland 2
Minnesota 2
Mississippi 2
North Dakota 2
Oklahoma 2
Washington 2
Arkansas 1
Delaware 1
District of Columbia 1
Hawaii 1
Maine 1
Massachusetts 1
Montana 1
Nebraska 1
Wisconsin 1
Wyoming 1



Federal Agencies: 12
U.S. Territories: 4

[Son-of-Liberty]

I respect your opinion Solid and thanks for sharing. I don't think we completely disagree. Once the guy cocked the ice axe and started going for his partner I don't think that shooting him was a bad decision, just that it shouldn't have gotten to that point. Yes the second 5 shots were excessive.

If they had a taser ( we don't know) it would have been a good choice in this scenario.

[EE_]

I respect your opinion Solid and thanks for sharing. I don't think we completely disagree. Once the guy cocked the ice axe and started going for his partner I don't think that shooting him was a bad decision, just that it shouldn't have gotten to that point. Yes the second 5 shots were excessive.

If they had a taser ( we don't know) it would have been a good choice in this scenario.

The cop did hit him in the face with a taser and he pulled the probes off. The cop was trying to reach into his belt to get a reload for his taser while other cop had him covered. So they did take steps

[solid]

The cop did hit him in the face with a taser and he pulled the probes off. The cop was trying to reach into his belt to get a reload for his taser while other cop had him covered. So they did take steps

I think that was pepper spray, EE. Normally you wouldn't shoot someone in the face with a taser.

[Book]

http://www.readjunk.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/pic_oneflewover_1.jpg
"For fun let's all go swing our ICE AXES in Whammy Burger again!"





::) then return in time for group therapy and warm milk and cookies

[EE_]

All the reports say he was tasered

UPDATED: Fatal officer-involved shooting in Monterey Park caught on amateur video
By Brian Day on January 24, 2012 10:06 AM | Permalink | Comments (0) | ShareThis
MONTEREY PARK -- The fatal police shooting of a man who lunged at a police officer with a metal bar Monday was caught on amateur video.
Steve Rodriguez, 22, was pronounced dead at a hospital shortly after the shooting, Los Angeles County Department of Coroner's Chief of Operations Craig Harvey said. His city of residency was not known Tuesday.
The shooting took place about 9:30 a.m. Monday in the parking lot of a Carl's Jr. restaurant in the 1200 block of Avenida Cesar Chavez, where Rodriguez was reportedly smashing out windows with a three-foot-long metal bar.
Monterey Park police officers responded to reports about the man's window-smashing, sheriff's officials said.
The video shows Rodriguez exit the eatery with a metal bar, when he was immediately confronted by two police officers, who who were not identified Tuesday. One of the officers held a Taser, the other pointed a pistol in his right hand and held a police dog's leash in the other. The officer with the Taser is seen apparently firing the device. At least one of the Taser darts appeared to have hit Rodriguez in the face, the video shows. He swatted at the dart, but it did not slow him down and only appeared to agitate him, the video shows.
Rodriguez then turned toward the officer who fired the Taser and began approaching him while grasping the metal bar in a baseball bat grip, the video shows.
The officer who shot at Rodriguez with the Taser appeared to be struggling to remove his pistol from its holster as the second officer opened fire, the video shows.
After a volley of five shots in rapid succession, Rodriguez stumbled back, dropped the metal bar and turned his back to the officers, though he remained on his feet. The officer then fired a second volley of five shots, causing Rodriguez to fall to the ground.
The camera's view of Rodriguez is obscured during the second round of gunfire by a parked car.
The man who shot the cell phone video, who asked that his name be withheld due to privacy concerns, said he was planning on removing the video from the Internet once he learned the man who was shot had died, but changed his mind after seeing "a falsified report," in the news.
He said he read a news story in which, "a female officer described that the suspect swung (the metal bar) twice."
The cameraman said his footage, as well as his memory, told a different story. While Rodriguez took an aggressive stance toward an officer and drew back as though he was about to strike him, he said, there was no swing.
While the amateur video is an important piece of evidence, Lt. Eddie Hernandez of the Sheriff's Homicide Bureau said there is a great deal of additional evidence to be considered.
"Keep in mind, the video that was posted on YouTube, it's a very narrow prism," the lieutenant said. "The investigation is in its infancy right now."
Investigators will also review videos of the incident that have not been released to the public, Hernandez said, including security camera footage from inside the restaurant, footage from neighboring businesses and footage from cameras mounted in Monterey Park police patrol cars.
Detectives were also continuing Tuesday to interview about 25 witnesses, Hernandez said.
The Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department is assisting in the investigation, as is common in officer-involved shootings involving Los Angeles County police agencies.
Hernandez did not know the status of the officers involved in the shooting. Monterey Park police declined to comment on the identity or status of the officers.
Hernandez described the metal bar Rodriguez had been clutching as a "pipe bender" -- a tool used by electricians to bend electrical conduits.
Investigators continued piecing together the events that led up to the shooting, Hernandez said.
Witnesses reported the suspect was not yelling or speaking to anyone as he smashed the windows inside the restaurant, and his motive in the alleged vandalism was unknown.
"In the beginning, he was very nonchalantly breaking windows," said the amateur cameraman.
Once police arrived and confronted Rodriguez, "They were telling him to put his hands up," he said. "He brushed them off as they were shouting orders at him. He got Tasered in the face. He didn't even react to it."The cameraman added that even after the shooting, he didn't immediately realize what had taken place. Until getting home and seeing news coverage of the incident, "I was really convinced that they were rubber pellets that were shot at him," he said.
The officers involved did not recognize Rodriguez from any previous encounters, Hernandez added.
The only Los Angeles County Superior Court case listed in a county database against a person by Rodriguez's name and birthdate was a drunken driving case filed Dec. 28 in Alhambra Superior Court. The case stemmed from an Oct. 30 arrest in Alhambra. Further details on the case were not available.
No drugs were found on Rodriguez's person, Hernandez said. An autopsy will determined whether any substances were in his system at the time of the incident.
Once sheriff's officials, police, Los Angeles County District Attorney's officials and the County of Los Angeles Office of Independent Review have completed their investigations, the information will be turned over to the district attorney's office for review.
http://www.insidesocal.com/sgvcrime/

[solid]

I respect your opinion Solid and thanks for sharing. I don't think we completely disagree. Once the guy cocked the ice axe and started going for his partner I don't think that shooting him was a bad decision, just that it shouldn't have gotten to that point. Yes the second 5 shots were excessive.

If they had a taser ( we don't know) it would have been a good choice in this scenario.

This is what I agree with. I'd just like to add that it shouldn't have gotten to that point, but honestly 99% of these situations people see the guns on them and drop their weapons. This guy didn't though.

I've been in many situations very similar to this, and I never had to pull the trigger.

It's contagious, one cop draws a gun then all the other cops do too...

Anyway, I get a big laugh now thinking back actually. All the times we drew our guns and everything was OK. The situations became under control. The one time, I make a mistake, do something stupid, and should have been killed...I didn't draw my gun out in time. The one time, I can honestly say I definitely needed it, but drew too late.

[Buddha]

Jesus, 29 pages and we are just now getting to the fact the he was tasered. Did you guys saying it was pepper spray even watch the video?

[Rubberchicken]

cops carry guns to protect themselves not you

[Spectrism]

Jesus, 29 pages and we are just now getting to the fact the he was tasered. Did you guys saying it was pepper spray even watch the video?

The video is done by moronic animals through water dimpled glass. Didn't YOU watch the video?

If the cop shot the perps FACE with a taser, that should be a crime as well! That would piss me off too.

I am amazed that you people want to justify murder. Was the perp an idiot- likely so and he asked for a hurtin. The cops were fat murderers.

[Buddha]

The video is done by moronic animals through water dimpled glass. Didn't YOU watch the video?

If the cop shot the perps FACE with a taser, that should be a crime as well! That would piss me off too.

I am amazed that you people want to justify murder. Was the perp an idiot- likely so and he asked for a hurtin. The cops were fat murderers.

What the fuck are you talking about? Yeah it's shot by idiots, what does that have to do with anything? You were probably the one shooting it.

"If the cop shot the perps FACE with a taser" Angain we are back to what I said before, he WAS shot in the face with a taser. Go back to your bible and stay out of any kind of inteligent discussion, of which this is border line.

[solid]

After a volley of five shots in rapid succession, Rodriguez stumbled back, dropped the metal bar and turned his back to the officers, though he remained on his feet. The officer then fired a second volley of five shots, causing Rodriguez to fall to the ground.

Anyone catch this part of the article?

He dropped the metal bar and was shot in the back, by the next 5 shots. Shot in the back, unarmed. I change my opinion in this case, sounds like murder to me.

EDIT: To add, you've got to be a tough dude to take 5 shots and remain standing. Pretty sad, he might have lived if they stopped after those first shots.

[BrewTech]

What the fuck are you talking about? Yeah it's shot by idiots, what does that have to do with anything? You were probably the one shooting it.

"If the cop shot the perps FACE with a taser" Angain we are back to what I said before, he WAS shot in the face with a taser. Go back to your bible and stay out of any kind of inteligent discussion, of which this is border line.

Did I miss something, or was that completely uncalled for? ???

[Spectrism]

What the fuck are you talking about? Yeah it's shot by idiots, what does that have to do with anything? You were probably the one shooting it.

"If the cop shot the perps FACE with a taser" Angain we are back to what I said before, he WAS shot in the face with a taser. Go back to your bible and stay out of any kind of inteligent discussion, of which this is border line.

Buddha... I have not done this before on this forum, but I am now. I am calling you out on your derogatory comments toward a member in good standing.

Here you call me an idiot and possibly the one shooting the video.

You obviously want to slur me for my regard for the bible.

Next, you say that I cannot engage in "inteligent" discussion. If you want to insult someone for lack of intelligence, at least learn how to spell it.

I cannot recall any substantial contribution from you here. You violated the forum rules.

[ximmy]

2135
http://gold-silver.us/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2135&d=1327625523

[BrewTech]

Did you make that, Ximmy?

[ximmy]

Did you make that, Ximmy?

I just scratched an outline real quick, not my best work... heehee :p

[solid]

I just scratched an outline real quick, not my best work... heehee :p

You should redraw it.

To show the guy shot in the back 5 times. While he was unarmed, too.

Those cops appear to be cowards, and murderers.

[Spectrism]

You should redraw it.

To show the guy shot in the back 5 times. While he was unarmed, too.

Those cops showed real skill... shooting a man while he was falling. Maybe he was already on the ground for the last 5 shots... hard to tell with the view. For safety they should have a grenade launcher to shoot into such perps and blow a 6-inch hole in his chest.

[solid]

Maybe he was already on the ground for the last 5 shots... hard to tell with the view. .

Nope, go back and read post #292 in this thread.

The last 5 shots we were wondering about? The cop shot him, while he was unarmed, in the back. He was standing up at the time.

Makes me sick to my stomach.

[MAGNES]

Those cops appear to be cowards, and murderers.

They put themselves within his reach then blew him away
because they are lazy useless fucks. That's what they teach
those dummies, the dog is there for the show.

If Joe Smoe did what that cop did he'd be in deep shit most likely.

Before there was drop guns, now they use drop pocket knives
to frame victims.


Fucking justified my ass.

[Book]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c2/Ice_axe.png/220px-Ice_axe.png

::)

[solid]

Before there was drop guns, now they use drop pocket knives
to frame victims.

That cop will probably just say, "articulate", how the he saw the guy reaching for a weapon.

Even if no weapon was found on his body. Fucking pisses me off.

Shooting a guy in the back, unarmed. That guy could have possibly lived, there was no reason for that.

I shouldn't post when when I'm heated, like I am now.

[solid]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c2/Ice_axe.png/220px-Ice_axe.png

::)

The weapon was on the ground for the last 5 shots. The guy was unarmed. He had his back to them.

How is that NOT murder?

[Buddha]

Buddha... I have not done this before on this forum, but I am now. I am calling you out on your derogatory comments toward a member in good standing.

Here you call me an idiot and possibly the one shooting the video.

You obviously want to slur me for my regard for the bible.

Next, you say that I cannot engage in "inteligent" discussion. If you want to insult someone for lack of intelligence, at least learn how to spell it.

I cannot recall any substantial contribution from you here. You violated the forum rules.

I asked how one could not see the taser, and why it took 29 pages to get to this point.

You retort by saying the video was shot by idiots, and if I had watched the video

It's like speaking to an 8 year old.

Akin to an 8 year old you go crying, playing victim "you violated the forum rules" Which I did not

Keep in mind I'm a member in good standing as well, if you want to see my contributions look through my posts.

Again how could you not see the taser?

[Book]

The weapon was on the ground for the last 5 shots.



A 17-year-old has been found guilty of murdering black student Anthony Walker, who was found with an axe in his head.

Michael Barton had denied killing Anthony but was found guilty of murder. His cousin Paul Taylor, 20, had admitted his part in the killing.Anthony, 18, was killed with an ice axe at McGoldrick Park in Huyton, Merseyside, on 29 July.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/merseyside/4477156.stm


::) Gee...you finally acknowledge that an ICE AXE is a deadly weapon. Why would any sane police officer risk any macho kung foo moves to disarm him? Why would any sane police officer risk wrestling with someone armed with this deadly weapon? Now you are arguing that the first five bullets are maybe appropriate while the second five bullets is...OH MY GOD !!!...excessive?

[gunDriller]

2135
http://gold-silver.us/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2135&d=1327625523

very Picasso-esque !

[solid]

::) Gee...you finally acknowledge that an ICE AXE is a deadly weapon. Why would any sane police officer risk any macho kung foo moves to disarm him? Why would any sane police officer risk wrestling with someone armed with this deadly weapon? Now you are arguing that the first five bullets are maybe appropriate while the second five bullets is...OH MY GOD !!!...excessive?

[/SIZE]

Why would anyone try and justify shooting an unarmed person in the back?

You can't be serious with this BS post, Book. If you are serious, you are a coward.

Give me one example where shooting an unarmed person in the back is necessary.

[Rubberchicken]

book and solid, two pigs in a pod. no infighting enough donuts for all

[Book]

If you are serious, you are a coward.



Gosh...gonna delete all your threads and run away again?

http://freeemoticonsandsmileys.com/emoticons/Mood%20Emoticons/cray.gif

[solid]

Gosh...gonna delete all your threads and run away again?

http://freeemoticonsandsmileys.com/emoticons/Mood%20Emoticons/cray.gif

Nope. :) Are you going to shoot me in the back, if I try though?

Book, honest question. Anyone reading this thread, will be able to see if you are man enough to answer it...

How, do you justify, those last 5 shots, on an unarmed man's back?

If you don't have the balls to answer this simple question, fine, I understand. Your silence, or your ignoring this question, is answer enough.

[Book]

How, do you justify, those last 5 shots...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp8TGMvPuSE

::) less than a one-second pause between the first five shots and the second five-shots

[Book]

Are you going to shoot me in the back, if I try though?

...see if you are man enough to answer it...

How, do you justify...

If you don't have the balls to answer this simple question...



::) this is how stupid emotionally-unstable people debate an issue...ad hom.

[Spectrism]

I asked how one could not see the taser, and why it took 29 pages to get to this point.

You retort by saying the video was shot by idiots, and if I had watched the video

It's like speaking to an 8 year old.

Akin to an 8 year old you go crying, playing victim "you violated the forum rules" Which I did not

Keep in mind I'm a member in good standing as well, if you want to see my contributions look through my posts.

Again how could you not see the taser?

OK Buddha. I gave you the chance to apologize and get your act straight. You failed. Now I lodge a formal complaint.

Your disregard for forum rules and your insults are just inflammatory.

[solid]

::) less than a one-second pause between the first five shots and the second five-shots

Reminds me of Sheriff Judd's answer. When asked by the media why they shot the suspect 68 times, Judd said "Because that's all the bullets we had." ;D

http://www.snopes.com/crime/cops/judd.asp

[EE_]

It doesn't sound like the dead guy was a violent criminal.

MONTEREY PARK, Calif. (KABC) -- It was a deadly confrontation caught on tape: Monterey Park police officers fatally shot a man who was swinging a metal bar. That man's brother is now questioning the officers' use of deadly force. The slain man's loved ones gathered in Monterey Park for a vigil.

A grieving big brother is desperate to know what went wrong.

"Everyone is shocked. His friends are shocked, we're shocked. Everybody who knew him is shocked," said Danny Rodriguez, older brother of Steven Rodriguez, who was fatally shot Monday morning.

The deadly officer involved shooting was captured on a cellphone camera.

One of two officers at the scene fired a Taser at the 22-year-old after he had started smashing windows at a Carl's Jr. restaurant with a metal bar, but he seemed unfazed.

When Rodriguez raises the metal bar toward them, one officer fires five rounds. Then the second officer fires five more.

"It hurts a lot. It hurts that you see five shots. It hurts that you see him falling, then you see five more shots," said Danny.

Danny says his brother who had recently enrolled at East Los Angeles College to study biology was not a violent person and says they have no idea what caused him to act out.

Authorities are waiting on toxicology tests to determine if drugs or alcohol played a role.

Either way Rodriguez's family says it was no reason to shoot the 22-year-old.

"I want an investigation. I want to know why actions were taken the way they were," said Danny. "I want to know why."

The two officers who shot Rodriguez have not been identified. The L.A. County Sheriff's Dept. is investigating the case.

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=8521001

[JohnQPublic]

Buddha and Spectrism, please keep a cool head here. Buddha, you are moving towards a temp ban, please argue on the points.

[Awoke]

I have to say that I regret not stating my original suspicion, that it was a tazer they hit him with and not pepper spray.
I thought it might have been a tazer because when they hit him, it looks like he pulls something out of his head. Then I kind of just figured it was probably him wiping the spray out of his eyes, but anyways, I should have posted it so that we could have avoided that bullshit post about "29 pages and we're just learning he was tazered now?"

Lame.





Oh. And book: Give it a rest already, with the frigging Ice Axe photos.
Reality is not as dramatic as that.


Hernandez described the metal bar Rodriguez had been clutching as a "pipe bender" -- a tool used by electricians to bend electrical conduits.

http://www.service.kleintools.com/Marketing/Catalog_Imagery/51212_ICON.JPG

[Spectrism]

Thanks Awoke.... I thought it looked like a pipe bender or a cane, but the video quality really sucked.

They plain out murdered the guy. In a case like this, the cops just did not care what the situation was. They must have been late for coffee and donuts.