IQ's

[optionT]

IQs in various countries


Country City Mean IQ

Holland Amsterdam 109.4

Germany Hamburg 109.3

Poland Warsaw 108.3

Sweden Stockholm 105.8

Yugoslavia Zagreb 105.7

Italy Rome 103.8

Austria Vienna 103.5

Switzerland Zurich 102.8

Portugal Lisbon 102.6

Great Britain London 102

Norway Oslo 101.8

Denmark Copenhagen 100.7

Hungary Budapest 100.5

Czechoslovakia Bratislava 100.4

Spain Madrid 100.3

Belgium Brussels 99.7

Greece Athens 99.4

Ireland Dublin 99.2

Finland Helsinki 98.1

Bulgaria Sofia 96.3

France Paris 96.1



From V. Buj, Person. & Individ. Diff., Vol. 2, pp. 168 to 169, 1981

Subjects >16 yrs. old tested on the Cattell Culture Fair Test 3 (16 SD), standardized in the USA (IQ=100).


http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/Images/Image2.gif

The error bars are the Standard Error of Measurement * 1.96, or a 95% confidence interval. The Flynn Effect Adjustment was done when culturally reduced rates were available. The calculation was done from 1980 to 1986 with the rates converted to 16 SD and subtracting the American full scale rate. Excessive trust should not be placed on the differences between the countries; the error bars often overlap with the averages of other countries. Some of the Flynn Effect rates are based on better data than others. And notice that it is unsatisfactory to subtract the American full scale rate instead of a culturally reduced or performance rate.

The following are some children’s relatively modern IQ scores relative to American norms (IQ=100), on a 15 SD scale and based on both verbal and performance type data, unless otherwise stated. The Asian data are the highest scores found in the data sources. That is, sometimes studies find lower Asian scores. On average, children from Asian countries get about a 107 IQ relative to American norms.



1. Canadian children scored Full Scale IQ= 103.34, Verbal= 101.4, Performance = 104.96 on the (American) WISC-III. Source: Wechsler, D. (1996), Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children – Third Edition, Canadian Supplement. (Communicated by Dr. D. Saklofske).



2. Chinese children, in or around Beijing scored 109.4. According to Li, Jin, Vandernberg, Zhu, and Tang, 1990, as cited in R. Lynn (1997), Geographical variation in intelligence. In Helmuth Nyborg (Ed.) The Scientific Study of Human Nature. I kept Lynn’s adjustment for the Flynn Effect (The WISC-R Chinese standardization was done 10 years later than the American).



3. In Nagoya Japan, the score was 110.24. It was adjusted up by 3.34 points because testing was done on the Canadian Cognitive Abilities Test (see note 1). Source: Takeuchi and Scott (1992) as cited by R. Lynn (1997), Geographical variation in intelligence. In Helmuth Nyborg (Ed.) The Scientific Study of Human Nature. It seems that the Japanese gains have started to level off.



4. South Korean children got a score of 109 versus British children. Source: Lynn and Ja Song (1994) as cited by R. Lynn (1997), Geographical variation in intelligence. In Helmuth Nyborg (Ed.) The Scientific Study of Human Nature.



5. Taiwanese children versus British children: 104.7, on a culturally reduced test. Adjusted for the Flynn Effect by R. Lynn (1997), Geographical variation in intelligence. In Helmuth Nyborg (Ed.) The Scientific Study of Human Nature.



6. Hong Kong versus British children: 116 on a culturally reduced test. Source: Chan and Lynn (1989), The intelligence of six-year-olds in Hong Kong, J. biosoc. Sci. Vol. 21, pp. 461-464.


http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/NationalIQs.aspx

[optionT]

Fluoride in Water Linked to Lower IQ in Children (http://www.infowars.com/fluoride-in-water-linked-to-lower-iq-in-children-2/)


Fluoride Action Network
PRNewswire (http://www2.fluoridealert.org/Alert/China/Fluoride-in-Water-Linked-to-Lower-IQ-in-Children)
December 22, 2010

Exposure to fluoride may lower children’s intelligence says a study pre-published in Environmental Health Perspectives, a publication of the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences (online December 17, 2010).
http://freespeech.vo.llnwd.net/o25/pub/images/onepixel.gif

http://static.infowars.com/2010/12/i/article-images/tapwater.png

Fluoride is added to 70% of U.S. public drinking water supplies.

According to Paul Connett, Ph.D., director of the Fluoride Action Network, “This is the 24th study that has found this association, but this study is stronger than the rest because the authors have controlled for key confounding variables and in addition to correlating lowered IQ with levels of fluoride in the water, the authors found a correlation between lowered IQ and fluoride levels in children’s blood. This brings us closer to a cause and effect relationship between fluoride exposure and brain damage in children.”

“What is also striking is that the levels of the fluoride in the community where the lowered IQs were recorded were lower than the EPA’s so-called ‘safe’ drinking water standard for fluoride of 4 ppm and far too close for comfort to the levels used in artificial fluoridation programs (0.7 – 1.2 ppm),” says Connett.

In this study, 512 children aged 8-13 years in two Chinese villages were studied and tested – Wamaio with an average of 2.47 mg/L water fluoride (range 0.57-4.50 mg/L) and Xinhuai averaging 0.36 mg/L (range 0.18-0.76 mg/L).

The authors eliminated both lead exposure and iodine deficiency as possible causes for the lowered IQs. They also excluded any children who had a history of brain disease or head injury and none drank brick tea, known to contain high fluoride levels. Neither village is exposed to fluoride pollution from burning coal or other industrial sources.

About 28% of the children in the low-fluoride area scored as bright, normal or higher intelligence compared to only 8% in the “high” fluoride area of Wamaio.

In the high-fluoride city, 15% had scores indicating mental retardation and only 6% in the low-fluoride city.

The study authors write: “In this study we found a significant dose-response relation between fluoride level in serum and children’s IQ.”

EXCLUSIVE INFOWARS.COM INTERVIEW WITH DR. PAUL CONNETT – YOUR TOXIC TAPWATER

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ky9nkltews&feature=player_embedded


In addition to this study, and the 23 other IQ studies, there have been over 100 animal studies linking fluoride to brain damage (all the IQ and animal brain studies are listed in Appendix 1 in The Case Against Fluoride available online at http://fluoridealert.org/caseagainstfluoride.appendices.html (http://fluoridealert.org/caseagainstfluoride.appendices.html)).

One of the earliest animal studies of fluoride’s impact on the brain was published in the U.S. This study by Mullenix et. al (1995) led to the firing of the lead author by the Forsyth Dental Center. “This sent a clear message to other researchers in the U.S. that it was not good for their careers to look into the health effects of fluoride – particularly on the brain,” says Connett.

Connett adds, “The result is that while the issue of fluoride’s impact on IQ is being aggressively pursued around the world, practically no work has been done in the U.S. or other fluoridating countries to repeat their findings. Sadly, health agencies in fluoridated countries seem to be more intent on protecting the fluoridation program than protecting children’s brains.”

When the National Research Council of the National Academies reviewed this topic in their 507-page report “Fluoride in Drinking Water: A Review of EPA’s Standards” published in 2006, only 5 of the 24 IQ studies were available in English. Even so the panel found the link between fluoride exposure and lowered IQ both consistent and “plausible.”

According to Tara Blank, Ph.D., the Science and Health Officer for the Fluoride Action Network, “This should be the study that finally ends water fluoridation. Millions of American children are being exposed unnecessarily to this neurotoxin on a daily basis. Who in their right minds would risk lowering their child’s intelligence in order to reduce a small amount of tooth decay, for which the evidence is very weak.” (see The Case Against Fluoride, Chelsea Green, October 2010)

—
This just in from Dr. Paul Connett (The Case Against Fluoride (http://www.chelseagreen.com/bookstore/item/the_case_against_fluoride:paperback)) and the Fluoride Action Network: A very important study, titled Serum Fluoride Level and Children’s Intelligence Quotient in Two Villages in China (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=n8flt5dab&et=1104107953763&s=15664&e=001p2xfCtm8WX3Px8gjfsfWQCOrZeEUknJiKQcKYxwLkaiKs Yf542SkLIPJ0mGD8PBL6fwCSgiEcPjn8dEfL50NzhyDG2VbP4Y cwnPFV9q1hUfzClQj8pLnhRvIOc78FS9SOYDT-FXqkzbTbVkDSGrO6C_cpV9FxhwDwpMilri8W6aXdUnX7t-Pp7_DHxgCpdlWulUFXDfserpMTk6QtCCj2cC0TdWvKpK-Aywyd4P4GPShk4OKQHQeNong7uUeL_y1-plsZpoBCOeh8MO-7nqpo_XCKO79WecAmGeHBBKQFkA=), was pre-published by Environmental Health Perspectives (EHP) on Dec 17, 2010 (EHP is published by the U.S. National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences).

In this study, Xiang and co-workers from China found an inverse correlation between the level of fluoride in children’s blood and their IQ. Specifically, Xiang et al. show that in a village in an area endemic for fluorosis that the higher the fluoride in the children’s blood the lower the IQ of the children studied. In addition, the level of the fluoride in the children’s blood was strongly correlated with the level of the naturally occurring fluoride in their water. Please note, that the levels of the fluoride in the water in the village studied (Wamiao, Jiangsu Province, China) were not that high 2.47 +/- 0.79 ppm (range 0.57-4.50). These levels are actually lower than the EPA’s so-called safe drinking water standard for fluoride (4 ppm). Previously Xiang had reported that a linear regression analysis of their data indicated that IQ would occur at levels as low as 1.9 ppm fluoride in the water (Xiang, 2003a,b). For a study that involved about 200 children this does not leave anything like an adequate margin of safety to protect the millions of children drinking artificially fluoridated water at 1 ppm. Finding a correlation between fluoride in the blood and lowered IQ further strengthens Xiang’s earlier findings.

Moreover, this study does not come out of the blue. It is the 24th study that has found an association between fluoride in water and lowered IQ in children. Most of these have come from China, but they also include studies published in Mexico, India and Iran. There have also been over 100 studies that fluoride can damage animal brain and studies showing that the fetal brain has been damaged in aborted fetuses in areas of China endemic for fluorosis. A complete listing of these studies can be found in Appendix 1 of the book “The Case Against Fluoride…” which is available online (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=n8flt5dab&et=1104107953763&s=15664&e=001p2xfCtm8WX3zHgfgQWM9ovKjASDzP3D6F4ve4lh-nYpY1Pox3-0DAgUjxVCSgh8YsnNg8vM66_Yun8QRu_vvzHr01xc_S7RCNru8 Vf6bx7-rCejeHitegj0zAk8h7vD5iqOu1F0i-VU7XNzgGpna1_8UAEEmJJea), with permission from the publisher.

One of the earliest animal studies of fluoride’s impact on the brain in the U.S. was by Mullenix et al. (1995). This led to the firing of the lead author by the Forsyth Dental Center (the details of this are in Chris Bryson’s book The Fluoride Deception). This treatment sent out a clear message to other researchers in the U.S. that it was not good for their careers to look into the health effects of fluoride – particularly on the brain!

When the National Research Council reviewed this topic in their 507-page report “Fluoride in Drinking Water: A Review of EPA’s Standards” published in 2006, only 5 of the IQ studies were available in English. Even so the panel found the link between fluoride exposure and lowered IQ both consistent and “plausible.” There have now been another 19 studies that have since been published or become available via English translation.

Risk-benefit analysis. Let’s put two studies in the weighing pans of a risk-benefit analysis. In the left hand pan let’s put the largest US study purporting to demonstrate fluoridation’s benefit (Brunelle and Carlos,1990) and in the right hand pan let’s put this study by Xiang, and see where the balance of wise policy lies.

The left hand pan. The Brunelle and Carlos study indicates that comparing tooth decay between children who had lived all their lives in a fluoridated community (versus a non-fluoridated one) had an average saving (for 5-17 year olds) of 0.6 of one permanent tooth surface out of over 100 tooth surfaces in a child’s mouth. Not only was this miniscule saving not shown to be statistically significant but it completely disappears if a one-year delay occurs in the eruption of the teeth of the children in the fluoridated communities (for which there is some evidence).

Stock up for the Holidays with eFoodsDirect and get FREE Shipping! (Ad) (http://www.efoodsdirect.com/2010-holiday-special/?aid=13&adid=48)

The right hand pan. The Xiang study (2003 a,b) indicates that their might be a lowering of IQ at 1.9 ppm, allowing an inadequate margin of safety to protect all children drinking uncontrolled amounts of water at 1 ppm (and getting fluoride from other sources). Now Xiang et al’s (2010) study strengthens this original finding by relating lowered IQ to plasma fluoride levels, which brings the finding closer to individual exposure.

Could either a parent or a decision maker possibly justify a practice that may possibly lower tooth decay by a very small amount, while it may possibly be risking their mental development? Surely the right hand scale pan must tip the left in this analysis?

[optionT]

2151






http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/IQ_by_Country.png/800px-IQ_by_Country.png

[StreetsOfGold]

IQ = The ability to learn in various disciplines. Not the same as knowledge attained and then applied (wisdom) and how it relates to your creator (understanding)

Proverbs 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

[hoarder]

IQ tests are designed to test your ability to solve many simple problems quickly. This is the kind of intellect employers look for in employees.
They don't test your ability to solve complex problems, like like assimilation of multiple variables.

[Neuro]

IQ tests are designed to test your ability to solve many simple problems quickly. This is the kind of intellect employers look for in employees.
They don't test your ability to solve complex problems, like like assimilation of multiple variables.

You are correct, but if you are unable to solve simple problems rapidly, you won't be able to solve complex problems either. Like sorting out the grand conspiracy. I don't think many here would score below 120 on an IQ test...

[hoarder]

You are correct, but if you are unable to solve simple problems rapidly, you won't be able to solve complex problems either. Like sorting out the grand conspiracy. I don't think many here would score below 120 on an IQ test...To solve things like conspiracy, speed is not even a factor. There are lots of people with high IQ's that can't figure it out. Of course there are lots that can, too. About 9 years ago I read about some branches of Mensa who were very "anti-Semitic". It seems the latter has rectified the matter by taking over Mensa and loading their entrance tests with trick questions to ensure they have a majority.

[Neuro]

To solve things like conspiracy, speed is not even a factor. There are lots of people with high IQ's that can't figure it out. Of course there are lots that can, too. About 9 years ago I read about some branches of Mensa who were very "anti-Semitic". It seems the latter has rectified the matter by taking over Mensa and loading their entrance tests with trick questions to ensure they have a majority.
No speed is not a factor to figure out conspiracy, but if your mind us muddled to the point that you can't calculate simple problems in a short time, you will follow authority, and what the talking heads at the teevee tells you to think, unless you have other influences in life! Which most don't. Certainly many high IQ people grows up becoming very biased by indoctrination, but still it is in this group you will find potential break outs of dogma!

[hoarder]

The high IQ sector is the most important target for us to deprogram, and in many cases the easiest.

[LuckyStrike]

To solve things like conspiracy, speed is not even a factor. There are lots of people with high IQ's that can't figure it out. Of course there are lots that can, too. About 9 years ago I read about some branches of Mensa who were very "anti-Semitic". It seems the latter has rectified the matter by taking over Mensa and loading their entrance tests with trick questions to ensure they have a majority.

I never renewed my membership after the first year, their forums were a bunch of marxist people who seemed to all be involved in academia. So I concur with your statements, Birdman was one of the famous people to go round and round with them.

To me IQ tests are mainly pattern recognition which IMO are very critical in putting the pieces together about the world and how it is run. So I think higher IQ people would ideally have an easier time but generally these are the people who excel in school, go through like a good lemming, and get a lemming job on the otherside which either occupies their mental energy with minutiae about the job, or pays them not to look deeper into things.

I would say the common thread for people here is not just above average intelligence but a rebellious attitude. Even if you wouldn't consider yourself a "rebel" you don't buy in to what people tell you, the government or the media. It may only start in one area, medicine, politics or whatever. But because you are a rebel in this sense it means you are a free thinker, and by definition if someone thinks for themselves and is honest they will come to many of the conclusions we have all come to.

[BrewTech]

I laugh now thinking about how I scored on an IQ test when I was young.

How do I not run the world by now?? LOL

IQ tests don't mean shit when it comes to real problem solving abilities.

[hoarder]

So I think higher IQ people would ideally have an easier time but generally these are the people who excel in school, go through like a good lemming, and get a lemming job on the otherside which either occupies their mental energy with minutiae about the job, or pays them not to look deeper into things.

Memory is often mistaken for intellect. Someone of average ability to reason with a great memory can excell in academia if he has the persistence. OTOH, someone with a higher ability to reason and a lower than average memory will not do well in school.
Some people are fortunate enough to be gifted with both.
People who have high intellect are more likely to go to college and get indoctrinated. Most people who obtain a degree are pretty proud of it. This pride is what prevents them from questioning what they think they know.

[horseshoe3]

I laugh now thinking about how I scored on an IQ test when I was young.

How do I not run the world by now?? LOL


You're not evil enough to make proper use of your intelligence?

[sirgonzo420]

I qualify for Mensa, and was a member for a year.

This place kicks Mensa's ass.

If I want cat anecdotes in newsletter form from the alleged top 2% of the population, I'll renew my Mensa membership.

If I want intelligent conversation, discussion, or debate about real, important topics, I'll come here.

I stay here.

:)

[synbi]

Finland made it to the list? We must be one of the, if not THE most pro-establishment, slave-minded, politically correct, anti-christian pro-climate changist, consumerist nation in whole Europe. We have wise and intelligent people - naturally, people here are very energetic and great, logical thinkers, but what are they all doing? Wasting their lives spouting climate change mantra from memory and pushing all sorts of transgender bullshit discussion into our faces.

[hoarder]

I qualify for Mensa, and was a member for a year.

This place kicks Mensa's ass.

If I want cat anecdotes in newsletter form from the alleged top 2% of the population, I'll renew my Mensa membership.

If I want intelligent conversation, discussion, or debate about real, important topics, I'll come here.

I stay here.

:)I think you could recruit some people there if you tried.

[MAGNES]

I never renewed my membership after the first year, their forums were a bunch of marxist people who seemed to all be involved in academia. So I concur with your statements, Birdman was one of the famous people to go round and round with them.

To me IQ tests are mainly pattern recognition which IMO are very critical in putting the pieces together about the world and how it is run. So I think higher IQ people would ideally have an easier time but generally these are the people who excel in school, go through like a good lemming, and get a lemming job on the otherside which either occupies their mental energy with minutiae about the job, or pays them not to look deeper into things.

I would say the common thread for people here is not just above average intelligence but a rebellious attitude. Even if you wouldn't consider yourself a "rebel" you don't buy in to what people tell you, the government or the media. It may only start in one area, medicine, politics or whatever. But because you are a rebel in this sense it means you are a free thinker, and by definition if someone thinks for themselves and is honest they will come to many of the conclusions we have all come to.

We were talking about IQ here cause of the charts GofD put up.
Both hoarder and I, I think we all can agree on a lot of points.
http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?58493-Now-these-are-3-scary-pictures&p=511924&viewfull=1#post511924

As far as conspiracy, if you are not exposed to the right info,
doesn't matter how "smart" you are. Hidden history is probably
the most important to further belief of what is happening today.
It's a rerun.

I boiled down my assessment of what I think smart is.
" People that are problem solvers and thinkers are the smartest people.
There is different types of problems to solve though."


I don't think many here would score below 120 on an IQ test...

I don't think high IQ testing defines us. I think you are way off on 120.
Most people here are smart though, smarter than many 120's out there.
120 can go either way, many doctors and lawyers are retards and compliant
slaves, many of them would score 120. This place would scare them to hell, LOL !

Neuro, read my assessment at that link I provided, let me know what you think.

[hoarder]

" People that are problem solvers and thinkers are the smartest people.
There is different types of problems to solve though.".I read an article a while back which stated that problem solving is a manly trait and nurturing is a feminine trait. I think that is generally true with exceptions.

What came to mind as I read it is that it's too bad men spend so much time solving problems rather than diagnosing them.

All my life I've watched co-workers and supervisors solve problems without diagnosing them properly. Of course they didn't REALLY solve the problem, they only solved what they thought was the problem.

I would ask them "What caused the problem?". When they replied I would point out that if a problem has a cause, it wasn't the problem. The cause was the problem and what they thought was the problem was actually the symptom.

[sirgonzo420]

I think you could recruit some people there if you tried.

I've thought about renewing my membership for that very reason...

[dys]

A little personal anecdote for you. When I was a kid in the 3rd grade they gave me an IQ test and I tested high. They wanted to put me on the fast track so I could graduate a few years ahead of time, join some national program to make themselves look like champions (the school administrators, that is). Problem was, I didn't have the inclination nor desire to follow what I thought were ridiculous rules. Like coming home from school and doing hours of busywork homework when I already knew the material. I can honestly say, these people ruined my childhood. Kind of a strong statement, but I assure you it's the truth. They caused such a stink with my parents- constantly calling them, making it seem like I was some kind of juvenile delinquent because I didn't give a flying fig about their stupid 'gifted and talented' programs. I was constantly in trouble even though I really did nothing wrong other than refuse to do a ton of hoop jumping busywork. That experience is what first woke me up. Because here was school- a place that uses the pretense of 'learning'- and I could ace all of their tests and learn anything they put in front of me, but they were giving me FAILING grades because I wouldn't do their worthless busywork and conform. And I knew their whole system was a sham, and they didn't like being discovered, and they made me pay by harassing my parents and pulling them into parent/teacher conferences, and at the end, just trying to make my life as miserable as humanly possible. I'll never forget those people, I can promise you that.

dys

[Hatha Sunahara]

IQ is irrelevant in a country where the job of the public schools is to dumb people down so they can do nothing more than conform and obey. Having a high IQ is a liability in America. You are deemed a threat to the establishment if you demonstrate high intelligence and an independent spirit. Lucky Strike nailed that one above.


Hatha

[Neuro]

I don't think high IQ testing defines us. I think you are way off on 120.
Most people here are smart though, smarter than many 120's out there.
120 can go either way, many doctors and lawyers are retards and compliant
slaves, many of them would score 120. This place would scare them to hell, LOL !
No, I don't think high IQ testing is what defines us either! But I stand by my guess that most of us here has an IQ of 120 or higher. In terms of the smarts we see here, there are three important factors influencing.

1) Access to information (thank you members of GSUS), the basis for this is of course a natural curiosity and a suspiciousness of established 'truth'

2) Lack of fear of challenging bias and established truths. This is something, that the two groups you mentioned MDs and Lawyers, and a few others like politicians, bankers and journalists, have a particular problem with. They can loose their jobs, social status or even their lives if they start challenging status quo. Thus you will never see Ron Paul challenging the official version of 911.

3) Ability to process information. For this you need to be able to analyze patterns and be able to discern what is most likely disinfo, to get to THE BIG PICTURE. This is a skill that is measured in IQ tests. You can though make up for an inability by associating with people that can do it for you, an authority...

[LuckyStrike]

I've thought about renewing my membership for that very reason...

If you do let me know, we could double team the forum. :)

The organization itself is a bastard though, they say I have to renew my membership so that they will release my test results. Not to mention you pay like 50 bucks a year and essentially all you get is a flimsy ass membership card. I will say in one of their magazines they had an article about "global warming" and the guy made good points, essentially that humanity has face major problems before and we always turned to technology and innovation to solve it, not decreasing our standard of living or going back to outdated technology.

I guess this would be a potential convert.

[sirgonzo420]

If you do let me know, we could double team the forum. :)

The organization itself is a bastard though, they say I have to renew my membership so that they will release my test results. Not to mention you pay like 50 bucks a year and essentially all you get is a flimsy ass membership card. I will say in one of their magazines they had an article about "global warming" and the guy made good points, essentially that humanity has face major problems before and we always turned to technology and innovation to solve it, not decreasing our standard of living or going back to outdated technology.

I guess this would be a potential convert.

They will get you on the damn membership fees!

The only reason I ever joined is because there was one month where they waived their charge to merely look at your previous test results, and someone bought me a year membership as a gift, on the condition that I qualify. So I sent off some standardized test results from various tests I'd taken in school, and the next thing I know, I had my spiffy new membership card, and a local newsletter with cat stories by geniuses.

In some ways, Mensa can be terrifying... GSUS gives me more hope for the world.


Aww hell, maybe I should rejoin and try to convert.

[Libertytree]

We've all known mega smart people with degrees and high paying jobs and positions but in the real world can't think their way out of a wet paper bag. I was treated like Hatha was and I could figger this shit out then, the others didn't have a clue as to how to really relate to things other than a written page. I'm no Einstein or what not but I'll damn sure put my noggin up against theirs any day. The funny thing is..in the right circumstance I'll be their boss :)

[BrewTech]

A little personal anecdote for you. When I was a kid in the 3rd grade they gave me an IQ test and I tested high. They wanted to put me on the fast track so I could graduate a few years ahead of time, join some national program to make themselves look like champions (the school administrators, that is). Problem was, I didn't have the inclination nor desire to follow what I thought were ridiculous rules. Like coming home from school and doing hours of busywork homework when I already knew the material. I can honestly say, these people ruined my childhood. Kind of a strong statement, but I assure you it's the truth. They caused such a stink with my parents- constantly calling them, making it seem like I was some kind of juvenile delinquent because I didn't give a flying fig about their stupid 'gifted and talented' programs. I was constantly in trouble even though I really did nothing wrong other than refuse to do a ton of hoop jumping busywork. That experience is what first woke me up. Because here was school- a place that uses the pretense of 'learning'- and I could ace all of their tests and learn anything they put in front of me, but they were giving me FAILING grades because I wouldn't do their worthless busywork and conform. And I knew their whole system was a sham, and they didn't like being discovered, and they made me pay by harassing my parents and pulling them into parent/teacher conferences, and at the end, just trying to make my life as miserable as humanly possible. I'll never forget those people, I can promise you that.

dys

Almost word for word the story of my childhood. I was even sent to a psychologist who just kept asking me, more or less, why I couldn't just go along to get along. Most of the time I just sat silent for the whole hour.

I supposed I would have talked... I guess I just didn't really understand how to articulate what my problem was.

It sucks being constantly berated for not conforming in spite of the fact "you are so much smarter than everyone else! It should be easy!"

Whatever.

[LuckyStrike]

Almost word for word the story of my childhood. I was even sent to a psychologist who just kept asking me, more or less, why I couldn't just go along to get along. Most of the time I just sat silent for the whole hour.

I supposed I would have talked... I guess I just didn't really understand how to articulate what my problem was.

It sucks being constantly berated for not conforming in spite of the fact "you are so much smarter than everyone else! It should be easy!"

Whatever.


A little personal anecdote for you. When I was a kid in the 3rd grade they gave me an IQ test and I tested high. They wanted to put me on the fast track so I could graduate a few years ahead of time, join some national program to make themselves look like champions (the school administrators, that is). Problem was, I didn't have the inclination nor desire to follow what I thought were ridiculous rules. Like coming home from school and doing hours of busywork homework when I already knew the material. I can honestly say, these people ruined my childhood. Kind of a strong statement, but I assure you it's the truth. They caused such a stink with my parents- constantly calling them, making it seem like I was some kind of juvenile delinquent because I didn't give a flying fig about their stupid 'gifted and talented' programs. I was constantly in trouble even though I really did nothing wrong other than refuse to do a ton of hoop jumping busywork. That experience is what first woke me up. Because here was school- a place that uses the pretense of 'learning'- and I could ace all of their tests and learn anything they put in front of me, but they were giving me FAILING grades because I wouldn't do their worthless busywork and conform. And I knew their whole system was a sham, and they didn't like being discovered, and they made me pay by harassing my parents and pulling them into parent/teacher conferences, and at the end, just trying to make my life as miserable as humanly possible. I'll never forget those people, I can promise you that.

dys

Similar situation here. Teachers (or any authority) doesn't like it when you are smarter than they are.

I hated school. And when I say that to people, specifically ones that don't know me well, they just kinda look at you like yeah just some punk kid blah blah. But the reality is I don't like being told what to do. I was constantly in trouble in school for things which to me were so damn petty. My Dad was always on my case about me bucking authority and needing to be teachable. Got sent to military school (for a time) to straighten me out I guess. It wasn't until I was 18 and out of school that he said, I know I was hard on you for not being "teachable" but it just means you think for yourself and don't take what people say as the gospel. I remember being like damn you could've told me that at the time.

I couldn't stand the monotony of homework. Specifically math, it's like if I can do this problem 5 times, clearly I can do it 50 but why make me jump through the hoops? It's a waste of everyones time, and I could've put the time to much better use playing outside.

There was a time where I honestly didn't know if I was going to graduate, finally made it out with like a 2.2 or so GPA but damn it was rough.

[Libertytree]

I left HS or was rather asked to leave, my 1st Jr semester and I gladly GTFO and did other things. I always said that I was gonna get my GED but put it off and off, truthfully I was scared I'd fail it and it worried the hell outta me. Finally though (a loooong time later) I paid the $30 and just blindly took it w/o the pre test things they wanted and figured I'd retake it, find my weakness(s) and pay the $30 again. I took it and worried my ass off in the time it took to get the results and finally they arrived..but I was too damn scared to open it and it sat there for days till I had a good buzz and said F it!

I was prepared to feel like an idiot but VERY much to my surprise It said I had done better than 99.8% of my fellow classmates from my graduating year...what a relief and a moment that was!

Here's the kicker...I had bullshitted my way into college and they were pressing me hard for transcripts, grades, diploma but I kept BS'n and had ran out of rope, I had to take the GED test and pass it to continue on. One of the admins caught the date and called me on it, I thought I was done right then and there and they were gonna kick my ass out but he shook my hand and smiled.

[solid]

Years ago, I had to take a battery of tests for a certain position. One was an IQ aptitude test, the kind you just don't have time to finish, but you answer as many questions as fast as you can basically.

When I met with psychologist later. This was an evil woman. I had talked to several folks who went through her questioning, and she made people actually cry. She was able to get into folk's heads and just intimidate them, drill them, whatever she felt like. Her job was to find weakness, psychologically, and use those weakness to attack people. Get them to quit.

So, I go in there and she's sitting at a computer. Looking away. 15 minutes passed, with me just sitting there, and her not even looking at me. The first thing she said, was ask me..."why do you want to kill your mother?" I answer, "I don't, I love my mother very much. We can call her up if you like."

The second thing she said, was "you tested very high in the IQ test. Our concerns are that you might get bored with this job." I had to give a quick answer about a passion to help people, etc. That was it, my "drilling" psych exam.

I often wonder about IQ tests, I don't trust them, personally.

[Libertytree]

Years ago, I had to take a battery of tests for a certain position. One was an IQ aptitude test, the kind you just don't have time to finish, but you answer as many questions as fast as you can basically.

When I met with psychologist later. This was an evil woman. I had talked to several folks who went through her questioning, and she made people actually cry. She was able to get into folk's heads and just intimidate them, drill them, whatever she felt like. Her job was to find weakness, psychologically, and use those weakness to attack people. Get them to quit.

So, I go in there and she's sitting at a computer. Looking away. 15 minutes passed, with me just sitting there, and her not even looking at me. The first thing she said, was ask me..."why do you want to kill your mother?" I answer, "I don't, I love my mother very much. We can call her up if you like."

The second thing she said, was "you tested very high in the IQ test. Our concerns are that you might get bored with this job." I had to give a quick answer about a passion to help people, etc. That was it, my "drilling" psych exam.

I often wonder about IQ tests, I don't trust them, personally.

I would have got up and went to leave and if she had asked why I would have said "I was bored and thought I'd go help somebody and get back with ya when you weren't so busy" LOL.

[hoarder]

Dayum. GSUSers have a lot in common. I hated school from day one, scraped by mostly on C's and D's. Flunked twice and skipped twice. I had no enthusiasm for memorizing bullshet. I quit school and left home when I was 16.
I took a GED test a decade later at a local community college and passed with a 40% margin. They told me I was so smart and that I should enroll in College, LOL. No way Jose!

[zap]

LOL I left high school at the beginning of my Jr yr. too. Oh I went ahead and finished the ROP dental asst. class, Then I was off to Show low, AZ or here, guess I made the right choice, oh I did go back at 23 and got my GED, and went to 2 years of college and they never asked me for my GED. Did lots of jobs had lots of fun.

So whooptditydo, I run my own business, pretty well self sufficient, hahahah no GED necessary.

So I would consider myself average, but tenacious.

[Old Herb Lady]

I hated skewl so bad that I went & got in a work study program and only had to go to skewl until 11 AM
then I worked the rest of the day/night (and broke the child labor laws cuz because I would work overtime even during the week which was prohibited . )
I would work til 11:00 at night sometimes, but I didn't care,
I was just glad to make money & not be in hell. (skewl)

I had good grades,(you had to have good grades to be in the work study program or you got kicked out)
I just hated skewl with a passion. The teachers were all really really old & talked really S-L-O-W
and bored me to sleep. Yawn just thinking about them.

Everybody was partyin & I was always workin. Always.
I think workin' kept me completely out of trouble & made me smarter & stronger &
kept me away from people getting on my nerves. Ha !
Sheesh. Guess I was a little beyotch back then too, now that I think about it. Ha !

[dys]

Almost word for word the story of my childhood. I was even sent to a psychologist who just kept asking me, more or less, why I couldn't just go along to get along. Most of the time I just sat silent for the whole hour.

I supposed I would have talked... I guess I just didn't really understand how to articulate what my problem was.

It sucks being constantly berated for not conforming in spite of the fact "you are so much smarter than everyone else! It should be easy!"

Whatever.

I was told from the very beginning- "this is all for you."
But I knew it wasn't for me, I knew it was for them. And they knew that I knew. And like I said, boy did they make my life miserable.
My parents handled it the wrong way, but I almost feel bad for them now. They were put under as much pressure as I was, probably moreso.
I had nothing less than an AWFUL relationship with my parents up until junior year of high school, when my father informed me that he was giving up on punishing me for anything school related. Thankfully, things changed after that, but I firmly believe that if my father hadn't of made that decision I'd be estranged from my parents right up to this day.

Boy did I hate school.

school= sheol
The spelling of that cursed word ain't no accident, either.

dys

[solid]

Boy did I hate school.

I find it interesting I never did very well in school, was always considered average, yet put me in front of an IQ test, or an aptitude test, and I score very high. A lot of classes in school, I struggled with, or just did OK. Something about the way those tests are, I just do well at them.

I've tested for a lot of jobs over the years, and have scored in the top 5% easily. I've ranked in the top 10 over thousands of others, just makes no sense to me at all.

[LastResort]

Dayum. GSUSers have a lot in common. I hated school from day one, scraped by mostly on C's and D's. Flunked twice and skipped twice. I had no enthusiasm for memorizing bullshet.

I find parallels in this thread with myself as well.

When the local gov apprentice guy signed me up for my apprenticeship it was kinda comical. He looked at my transcript. I know your type he said. Do what you have to do to get by with things you don't like and excel at things that interest you.

He was right. 90% in all my tech or hands on classes, and 60s and 70s in all the english, math, and other manditory crap classes. I could have done better in those classes but chose not to. Would have probably scraped by in those subjects with low 50's but then my dad would have kicked my ass...LOL

[BrewTech]

I find it interesting I never did very well in school, was always considered average, yet put me in front of an IQ test, or an aptitude test, and I score very high. A lot of classes in school, I struggled with, or just did OK. Something about the way those tests are, I just do well at them.

I've tested for a lot of jobs over the years, and have scored in the top 5% easily. I've ranked in the top 10 over thousands of others, just makes no sense to me at all.

It's clear that many of us similar stories growing up. Good-hearted people with above average intelligence combined with a disdain for boundaries and control.