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palani
31st January 2012, 02:04 PM
No ill will. No malice. Just pay me what you owe me and THEN we can talk.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/letter-freed-slave-former-master-draw-attention-151653952.html


A newly discovered letter from a freed former slave to his onetime master is creating a buzz. Letters of Note explains that in August of 1865, a Colonel P.H. Anderson of Big Spring, Tennessee wrote to his former slave Jourdan Anderson, requesting that Jourdan return to work on his farm.

In the time since escaping from slavery, Anderson had become emancipated, moved to Ohio where he found paid work and was now supporting his family. The letter turned up in the August 22 edition of the New York Daily Tribune. Some excerpts:

Sir: I got your letter, and was glad to find that you had not forgotten Jourdon, and that you wanted me to come back and live with you again, promising to do better for me than anybody else can. I have often felt uneasy about you. I thought the Yankees would have hung you long before this, for harboring Rebs they found at your house. I suppose they never heard about your going to Colonel Martin's to kill the Union soldier that was left by his company in their stable. Although you shot at me twice before I left you, I did not want to hear of your being hurt, and am glad you are still living. It would do me good to go back to the dear old home again, and see Miss Mary and Miss Martha and Allen, Esther, Green, and Lee. Give my love to them all, and tell them I hope we will meet in the better world, if not in this. I would have gone back to see you all when I was working in the Nashville Hospital, but one of the neighbors told me that Henry intended to shoot me if he ever got a chance.

On the "good chance" offered by the former slave owner:

I want to know particularly what the good chance is you propose to give me. I am doing tolerably well here. I get twenty-five dollars a month, with victuals and clothing; have a comfortable home for Mandy,—the folks call her Mrs. Anderson,—and the children—Milly, Jane, and Grundy—go to school and are learning well. The teacher says Grundy has a head for a preacher. They go to Sunday school, and Mandy and me attend church regularly. We are kindly treated. Sometimes we overhear others saying, "Them colored people were slaves" down in Tennessee. The children feel hurt when they hear such remarks; but I tell them it was no disgrace in Tennessee to belong to Colonel Anderson. Many darkeys would have been proud, as I used to be, to call you master. Now if you will write and say what wages you will give me, I will be better able to decide whether it would be to my advantage to move back again.

And then Jourdan explains that anything his former master could offer, he's already earned on his own. Other than some back wages:

As to my freedom, which you say I can have, there is nothing to be gained on that score, as I got my free papers in 1864 from the Provost-Marshal-General of the Department of Nashville. Mandy says she would be afraid to go back without some proof that you were disposed to treat us justly and kindly; and we have concluded to test your sincerity by asking you to send us our wages for the time we served you. This will make us forget and forgive old scores, and rely on your justice and friendship in the future. I served you faithfully for thirty-two years, and Mandy twenty years. At twenty-five dollars a month for me, and two dollars a week for Mandy, our earnings would amount to eleven thousand six hundred and eighty dollars. Add to this the interest for the time our wages have been kept back, and deduct what you paid for our clothing, and three doctor's visits to me, and pulling a tooth for Mandy, and the balance will show what we are in justice entitled to. Please send the money by Adams's Express, in care of V. Winters, Esq., Dayton, Ohio. If you fail to pay us for faithful labors in the past, we can have little faith in your promises in the future. We trust the good Maker has opened your eyes to the wrongs which you and your fathers have done to me and my fathers, in making us toil for you for generations without recompense. Here I draw my wages every Saturday night; but in Tennessee there was never any pay-day for the negroes any more than for the horses and cows. Surely there will be a day of reckoning for those who defraud the laborer of his hire.

And after a few more jabs about how his children are now happy and receiving an education, Jourdan concludes his letter with:

Say howdy to George Carter, and thank him for taking the pistol from you when you were shooting at me.

ximmy
31st January 2012, 03:37 PM
Slaves don't get wages, he is owed nothing.

BrewTech
31st January 2012, 03:51 PM
Slaves don't get wages, he is owed nothing.

In terms of his offer, he is. The terms can be accepted or rejected. I don't think he gave a shit either way.

ximmy
31st January 2012, 04:01 PM
In terms of his offer, he is. The terms can be accepted or rejected. I don't think he gave a shit either way.

Offer...
http://ezee.se/funnies/final_images_uploaded_folder/70ip8.jpg

palani
31st January 2012, 05:34 PM
Offer...

Facts are entirely on the moon. They do not have any place in any negotiations. It is the meeting of the minds and the consent that makes the contract. Going silent is silent consent.

If the letter shown is real then I suspect it was written by an attornor. Nobody who was a field hand for 30 years is going to write that well or clearly.

General of Darkness
31st January 2012, 05:45 PM
In the time since escaping from slavery, Anderson had become emancipated, moved to Ohio where he found paid work and was now supporting his family.

A black man supporting his family? Oh how things have changed. I venture to guess that without guberment assistance the black family as a whole would be so much better off.

palani
31st January 2012, 06:07 PM
A black man supporting his family? Oh how things have changed. I venture to guess that without guberment assistance the black family as a whole would be so much better off.

$25 bucks a month for the period (gold currency) would be the same as $24,000 a year now. Then double it. The government hadn't figured out how to stack up taxes. So $48,000 a year would be a pretty good income for either a white or black family now.

Eleven thousand six hundred and eighty dollars then (the offer) is equivalent to $992,800 x 2 = $1,985,600 in todays dollars.

Twisted Titan
31st January 2012, 08:25 PM
Slaves don't get wages, he is owed nothing.

And that is the Same way The Zionist Overlords speak about us.

Exactly.

Do you feel a tad bit different now?

solid
31st January 2012, 08:31 PM
And that is the Same way The Zionist Overlords speak about us.

Exactly.

Do you feel a tad be different now?

Homerun!!!! Out of the park.

Fortunately though, we can still use their instruments of slavery (fiat debt) to convert into PM's. They don't like us one bit for that, because each little silver dime we squirrel away is one step closer to true freedom.

ximmy
31st January 2012, 08:33 PM
And that is the Same way The Zionist Overlords speak about us.

Exactly.

Do you feel a tad be different now?

Some won't allow themselves to be slaves, others acquiesce.

solid
31st January 2012, 08:38 PM
Some won't allow themselves to be slaves, others acquiesce.

Acquiesce, or just have the illusion of not being a slave? The illusion of freedom just creates happy slaves, or ignorant ones...

ximmy
31st January 2012, 08:43 PM
And that is the Same way The Zionist Overlords speak about us.

Exactly.

Do you feel a tad be different now?

Yes, you have caused me to change my mind... REPARATIONS FOR BLACKS... supported by jews... ::)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzjrYrwUrGE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzjrYrwUrGE

solid
31st January 2012, 08:53 PM
Yes, you have caused me to change my mind... REPARATIONS FOR BLACKS... supported by jews... ::) [/video]

How many blacks do you know recently that were slaves? Your point, logically, makes no sense and doesn't apply. There's a difference there, from being an actual slave yourself. If you were a slave, and then freed, asking for back pay is completely justified, imo.

Awoke
1st February 2012, 05:20 AM
She's being sarcastic, Solid.

sirgonzo420
1st February 2012, 05:28 AM
Facts are entirely on the moon. They do not have any place in any negotiations. It is the meeting of the minds and the consent that makes the contract. Going silent is silent consent.

If the letter shown is real then I suspect it was written by an attornor. Nobody who was a field hand for 30 years is going to write that well or clearly.

Typically, neither is an attorner.

lol

palani
1st February 2012, 05:42 AM
Typically, neither is an attorner.

lol

You are judging the entire profession based upon current samples. I believe there is evidence that the earlier versions were somewhat more capable than the dumbed down variety we see today.

sirgonzo420
1st February 2012, 06:18 AM
You are judging the entire profession based upon current samples. I believe there is evidence that the earlier versions were somewhat more capable than the dumbed down variety we see today.

True enough.

However, they have been maligned (and perhaps rightly so) since biblical times:


Luke 11:46

And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.
Luke 11:52

Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered....through Shakespeare's era:


Henry VI, part 2

The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.Attorneys of today are far worse than their old counterparts.

The Civil War period is my "mental line in the sand" for when lawyers became attorneys (to me, the word "lawyer", with the root word "law" has a more noble connotation than the word "attorney" with the root word "attorn").

Methinks ole Lysander Spooner was one of the last "good ones", scattered exceptions notwithstanding.

palani
1st February 2012, 06:33 AM
The Civil War period is my "mental line in the sand"

1861 is where Law became Color of Law. I can prove it.

BrewTech
1st February 2012, 06:33 AM
attorn [əˈtɜːn]vb (intr)1. (Law) Law to acknowledge a new owner of land as one's landlord
2. (Historical Terms) Feudal history to transfer allegiance or do homage to a new lord

Interesting. Lends meaning to some of the cryptic legal ideas I've been exposed to here.

Glass
1st February 2012, 06:37 AM
Here's an 1861 timeline. Some people might not agree with the historical portrayal of the political dispositions of some people involved.

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/cwphtml/tl1861.html

I'm thinking disollution of the Union type events were occuring during this time. Can you be forced back into a Union with out your consent? Is that what it was about?

sirgonzo420
1st February 2012, 06:42 AM
1861 is where Law became Color of Law. I can prove it.


Prove it!

:D


attorn [əˈtɜːn]vb (intr)1. (Law) Law to acknowledge a new owner of land as one's landlord
2. (Historical Terms) Feudal history to transfer allegiance or do homage to a new lord

Interesting. Lends meaning to some of the cryptic legal ideas I've been exposed to here.


Yep. We aren't all *completely* full of shit.

lol

Law is funny, or rather the legal apparatus surrounding Law is funny.... and it is more than most people understand.

The more you learn about Law, the less you will want to 'understand' things.

And if some dude in a dress on a high chair asks if you "understand the charges", you might find it in your best interest not to do so.

palani
1st February 2012, 07:04 AM
Prove it!

I have Bouviers Law Dictionary in two editions. The 1855 edition is in plain leather covers. The 1862 edition has gilt covers, all the pages have marbled edges and there is marbled sheets in full living color inside both the front and back covers.

I believe the publishers knew it was lethal to say what you thought and so they published the "colorful" edition as an editorial upon Lincoln's actions.

Prior to 1861 law was in existence. After 1861 duress became the order of the day/week/month/decade/century ( and if nothing is done further ) /millennium.

palani
1st February 2012, 07:08 AM
Codes are color of law. If someone holds up an official U.S. Code and says "this is law" you thumb through it while asking "Where does it say 'be it enacted by ... '?" Without those words it is not law and the U.S. code does not contain those words.

palani
1st February 2012, 07:12 AM
From the civil war timeline posted:


When Abraham Lincoln, a known opponent of slavery, was elected president, the South Carolina legislature perceived a threat. Calling a state convention, the delegates voted to remove the state of South Carolina from the union known as the United States of America.

If this is accurate then S Carolina made a huge mistake. The United States of America was formed under the Articles of Confederation, a PERPETUAL union. The United States was created by the U.S. constitution and the word PERPETUAL does not appear in it at all. S Carolina probably wanted to terminate commercial relationships with the United States rather than the relations they had through the Articles.

sirgonzo420
1st February 2012, 07:13 AM
I have Bouviers Law Dictionary in two editions. The 1855 edition is in plain leather covers. The 1862 edition has gilt covers, all the pages have marbled edges and there is marbled sheets in full living color inside both the front and back covers.

I believe the publishers knew it was lethal to say what you thought and so they published the "colorful" edition as an editorial upon Lincoln's actions.

Prior to 1861 law was in existence. After 1861 duress became the order of the day/week/month/decade/century ( and if nothing is done further ) /millennium.

That's interesting.

Now I want an antique edition of Bouvier's!

solid
1st February 2012, 07:17 AM
She's being sarcastic, Solid.

I know, but she's also sending a message, the wrong one. Just wanted to point it out.

palani
1st February 2012, 07:17 AM
That's interesting.

Now I want an antique edition of Bouvier's!

Good luck. It took me 4 years of looking to find the first one (1855) and cost $700 fictional dollars. I stumbled upon the second one (1862) on Ebay with a buy it now of $200 fictional dollars (a steal).