This sucks! US Courts say sunken treasure must be returned to Spain

[madfranks]

So a ship sinks hundreds of years ago and a privately funded, modern exploratry vessel does the work to track the ship down, in international waters, finds the shipwreck and collects the sunken silver, and the government forces them to give it to the Spanish government! WTF!

Link Here (http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/judge-rules-against-ocean-explorers-in-dispute-with-spain-over-sunken-treasure-from-ship-wreck/2012/02/01/gIQA8b6UhQ_story.html)


Judge rules against ocean explorers in dispute with Spain over sunken treasure from ship wreck

ATLANTA — A federal judge has ruled against a deep-sea exploration company in a dispute with Spain over 17 tons of silver coins recovered from a sunken 19th century Spanish galleon. Florida-based Odyssey Marine Exploration Inc., which found the treasure off the Portuguese coast in 2007, had requested a stay after a federal court in Atlanta ruled last year the explorers must give the treasure back to the Spanish government.
In an order Tuesday, a U.S. circuit court judge denied the company’s motion for a stay.
In court documents, the exploration firm said it wanted to stay the proceedings until the U.S. Supreme Court could consider the case.
Odyssey had said in court filings that such a denial might mean Spain will keep the treasure forever. Spain’s position is that it is not subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S. courts, Odyssey said.
So “it is certainly reasonable to assume that should the cargo recovered by Odyssey be transferred to Spain, it will never be returned to the Odyssey or to the United States for proper adjudication of claims,” the exploration company wrote in court documents requesting the stay.
Calls to Odyssey were not immediately returned Wednesday morning.

[zap]

See, it pays to Keep Your Mouth Shut !

[Ares]

When you have governments that are corporations, they have mutual interests to benefit one another when it becomes mutually accommodating.

They are just setting an example for other explorations. If you find something, deny you found anything and put it up on the black market to profit handsomely.

[mightymanx]

Oddyseey can't hide like that they are tracked at every worksite.

My buddy that works for them was interned in Gibralter for months after the Spanish came after them with a destroyer while they were working.

Wikileaks explained how they were sold out to give a back a painting that the Spanish had from WW2 back to a prominent Israeli for the US government to not interfere on behalf of Oddyssey a US based company.

[Gaillo]

Should have melted it and shut the fuck up! ;)

[Twisted Titan]

You have to be smart


You only declare that you found 4-6 Tons

That way the Spannys can get a cut ( acting in the interest on Spanish History of course ) and you get the bragging rites and new sponsors for future expeditions

The other 11 + stays "missing"

[Spectrism]

What kind of damned communist country has this become?

The bastards have infiltrated every level.

[madfranks]

Should have melted it and shut the fuck up! ;)

A few years back on the discovery channel they did a series about this exact ship, and they explained that all of the funding came from investors who hoped to be repaid with the profits from any found treasure. I don't know if there really was a way for them to keep this quiet; it would sure be difficult to pay off all the investors with melted silver and tell them all to keep it on the down low.

[JohnQPublic]

You have to be smart


You only declare that you found 4-6 Tons

That way the Spannys can get a cut ( acting in the interest on Spanish History of course ) and you get the bragging rites and new sponsors for future expeditions

The other 11 + stays "missing"

How do you know this did not happen?

[JJ.G0ldD0t]

A few years back on the discovery channel they did a series about this exact ship, and they explained that all of the funding came from investors who hoped to be repaid with the profits from any found treasure. I don't know if there really was a way for them to keep this quiet; it would sure be difficult to pay off all the investors with melted silver and tell them all to keep it on the down low.

17 tons x melt @33...

That's like 18 mil.


I would think that wouldn't quite be enough to bring a return on the investment. I mean seriously- they expected to not only find the wreck, but market the coins for what ever they would bring... 50 million? 75 million?

I just don't understand why they should be surprised by this outcome.

[joboo]

They have to be getting a discretionary cut.


One metric tonne is 32,150 ozt. You would ideally want 10,000 - 20,000 ounces per person for all the time spent researching, looking, food, repairs, fuel, etc.. Cost coverage + some bounty factor. http://shipwreck.net/shipwrecks.php

[Twisted Titan]

How do you know this did not happen?

Touche Master Q.

Lets us hope so.

[joboo]

Actually, you can't feel too bad for them.

They get to keep 80% of 7 million ounces ....218 tons.

"In 2010, the United Kingdom (UK) Government Department for Transport awarded Odyssey, through a competitive bid, the exclusive salvage contract for the cargo of the SS Gairsoppa. Under the salvage agreement, Odyssey will retain 80% of the net salved value of the silver bullion recovered under the contract."

"Under the salvage contract, Odyssey will retain 80% of the net salved value of silver bullion recovered under the contract. Additional, uninsured silver may be aboard as well. Sources, including Lloyd’s Record of War Losses (http://shipwreck.net/g2/gallery2/v/ShipwreckProjects/SS_Gairsoppa/history/Document+LofL.jpg.html) indicate a cargo of silver worth £600,000 at the time, which would equate to approximately 7 million total ounces of silver."

http://shipwreck.net/ssgairsoppa.php

http://shipwreck.net/g2/gallery2/d/2133-5/side-scan+of+Gairsoppa.jpg



At $150 silver, 7 million ounces tops out a billion at $1,050,000,000.

[Spectrism]

Bring it up and tell them the federal reserve has it. When we got it to shore, armed men in uniforms claiming to be from the federal reserve took it. We weren't going to argue against guns. We have no idea where they took it. Maybe they took it out on the ocean and had a boating accident.

[joboo]

Inspecting buckets of gold and silver coins...

http://shipwreck.net/g2/gallery2/d/1907-2/Gregcoins.jpg

"More than 500,000 silver coins, weighing more than 17 tons, were scattered over the site which comprised an area larger than six football fields. "

http://shipwreck.net/g2/gallery2/d/1802-3/Silver+coins+on+Black+Swan+site.jpg

[Spectrism]

hey- that is not nice. Don't tantalize us with this. If that were my work, I would protect it with an army of firepower. Any fricken judges who would steal from me had best be ready xxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx.


I was just thinkin... maybe the courts need to visit the wreckage site close up.

[gunDriller]

when they recovered the SS Central America - mostly gold, went down in about 1853 - the lead engineer Tommy Thompson made a thing that squeezed out an "RTV Turd" underwater.

at a depth of 8000 feet, they would have their robot envelope an area of gold coins laying on the bottom with special rubber (sort of like RTV). then let the rubber cure. then load it into a basket & bring it back up.

it preserved the condition of the coins very well. when they showed the initial pickings to a coin dealer, he said most collectors would go their entire life and see only 1 or 2 coins of the quality they were bringing up.

[mightymanx]

17 tons x melt @33...

That's like 18 mil.


I would think that wouldn't quite be enough to bring a return on the investment. I mean seriously- they expected to not only find the wreck, but market the coins for what ever they would bring... 50 million? 75 million?

I just don't understand why they should be surprised by this outcome.


The Explorer costs 50k per day in operationg costs, so the margin is not as high as you might think.

They did not get to squirrl anything away Spain sent a destryoyer out and captured them when they were onsite The US did help and get them interned int he neutral port of Gibralter vice being held in Spain where they would still be held vice the 3 months they were kept in Gibralter.

It is rather hard to hide tons of silver anywhere. and they dont just melt it that would destrou the reputation they have as comercial archioligists. that is how they get access to wrecks (like the HMS Victory) is by having that petigree vice a salvage company.

[JDRock]

translation? it must be easier to transport quietly to israel fron Spain than from the prying eyes in the us.

[madfranks]

The Explorer costs 50k per day in operationg costs, so the margin is not as high as you might think.

They did not get to squirrl anything away Spain sent a destryoyer out and captured them when they were onsite The US did help and get them interned int he neutral port of Gibralter vice being held in Spain where they would still be held vice the 3 months they were kept in Gibralter.

It is rather hard to hide tons of silver anywhere. and they dont just melt it that would destrou the reputation they have as comercial archioligists. that is how they get access to wrecks (like the HMS Victory) is by having that petigree vice a salvage company.

When the destroyer showed up I would have dumped it all back in the water and told them to get it themselves.