Question on selling over $10000 in gold in regard to the IRS

[Celtic Rogue]

I have a friend who has 2, 100 gram pamp suisse gold bars. If he sells them both at the same time will he incur any problems? I remember that they were going to make it for transactions over $600 But I think that got shut down. Is it still $10000 and if what he sells is more than the 10000 what happens? He has to sell these to pay the taxes on an IRA withdrawal. Thanks

[EE_]

I have a friend who has 2, 100 gram pamp suisse gold bars. If he sells them both at the same time will he incur any problems? I remember that they were going to make it for transactions over $600 But I think that got shut down. Is it still $10000 and if what he sells is more than the 10000 what happens? He has to sell these to pay the taxes on an IRA withdrawal. Thanks

No problem. It's only when you hand over $10,000 or more...not when the dealer hands it to you.
I've watched my dealer fan out $100,000, no paperwork.

[Neuro]

He should find someone who is willing to pay cash for his bars without any paperwork, and he doesn't have to worry about the IRS. I am sure if he joined here he could find a few prospective buyers for his bars if the price was right...

[horseshoe3]

In this case, he could sell them seperately and stay under 10k per transaction anyway.

[Celtic Rogue]

No problem. It's only when you hand over $10,000 or more...not when the dealer hands it to you.
I've watched my dealer fan out $100,000, no paperwork.

hmmm... no this is where he wants to sell the 2 bars and not hassle with any irs paperwork or issues.

[horseshoe3]

He's going to have to spend the cash and not deposit it. At least not all at once or in any pattern.

[osoab]

hmmm... no this is where he wants to sell the 2 bars and not hassle with any irs paperwork or issues.

Going to be tough to deposit all that cash into his account to pay his tax bill on the ira.

[Celtic Rogue]

Apparently the gold is from a precious metals IRA that he has to pay the taxes on after a withdrawal. So his question I guess is... What happens when the IRS get one of the over 10000 sale of metals? The IRS already knows the gold was distributed. He just has to sell some to pay the taxes.

[Shami-Amourae]

Why don't you find a dealer who will let you swap the Gold for Silver without any transaction, then just sell off the Silver in smaller quantities? I think Tulving does stuff like that, but I'm not sure. That's a possible loophole if they were try taking Gold/Silver gains.

[solid]

Apparently the gold is from a precious metals IRA that he has to pay the taxes on after a withdrawal. So his question I guess is... What happens when the IRS get one of the over 10000 sale of metals? The IRS already knows the gold was distributed. He just has to sell some to pay the taxes.

If he has the physical gold, he should be able to just sell it. Deposit the cash, then pay the taxes. The taxes are in FRN's, so it shouldn't matter to the IRS. It may be a good idea to talk to a tax guy though just to make sure. The person doing the taxes should be able to file it with the IRS. The problem with this, is he may get hit with capital gains on the appreciation of the gold.

[Sparky]

If he has the physical gold, he should be able to just sell it. Deposit the cash, then pay the taxes. The taxes are in FRN's, so it shouldn't matter to the IRS. It may be a good idea to talk to a tax guy though just to make sure. The person doing the taxes should be able to file it with the IRS. The problem with this, is he may get hit with capital gains on the appreciation of the gold.

I don't even understand this thread. What problem is he worried about? Being tracked? Paying income tax? Paying early IRA withdrawal penalty? Paying capital gains tax?

[Mouse]

the whole stupid point of an IRA is that you accumulate tax-defered capital gains. He is getting monkey wrenched at earned income tax rates + the penalty for withdrawal. They cannot also try to get the capital gains on the metal. It's baked into the pie already. If he goes trucking into the bank with 10k in cash they will report it, but who cares?

[Jersey Thursday]

I don't even understand this thread. What problem is he worried about? Being tracked? Paying income tax? Paying early IRA withdrawal penalty? Paying capital gains tax?

My guess is yes to all the above. He wants to sell his gold for cash and be done with it.
If that’s the case he should start calling PM dealers. Ask them up front if they are going to request a social security number for transactions. If they say yes, move on. Eventually he’ll find one that says “never have, never will” and sell them the gold.

[Celtic Rogue]

Thanks for all of your responses! 8-) However my friend has sold them. No fuss no muss! 8-) Thanks again to my extended GSUS family.

[gunDriller]

If he has the physical gold, he should be able to just sell it. Deposit the cash, then pay the taxes. The taxes are in FRN's, so it shouldn't matter to the IRS. It may be a good idea to talk to a tax guy though just to make sure. The person doing the taxes should be able to file it with the IRS. The problem with this, is he may get hit with capital gains on the appreciation of the gold.

OK, so they're sold, but it's still an interesting & relevant question.

My understanding is, any business organization in the US that does $10K or more business with a vendor has to file a 1099 for those cash disbursements. They may choose not to - and hopefully they burn their receipts prior to an audit.

SUGGESTION - to fill out the paperwork for Capital Gains on Collectibles, to see what the taxes would be. Sometimes there is no net effect. I'm not saying to send it in - I'm saying, see what the bottom line is.

ALSO - banks sometimes file a "SAR" (Suspicious Activity Report) for cash deposits. It would be a shame to get caught up in an audit and to have the criminal IRS demanding PENALTIES in addition to alleged taxes.

Those SAR's are one good reason to stay on good terms with various bank employees, including the manager. They're not supposed to tell you if a SAR has been filed, but the more comfortable they are with you, the less likely they are to file a SAR (I think).