Dummies Guide to EASY silver bullion refining at home as a long term precious metal i

[Serpo]

About melting scrap silver at above top secret forum.............


http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread810904/pg1

[vacuum]

Great thread. Didn't know you could melt silver with nothing but a propane torch and potato.

Btw, if he posts a gold version and you see it, could you post that too?

[Son-of-Liberty]

Why exactly would you want to do this? I could see if you were extracting silver/gold from old electronics or something but to do it with coins that already have the intrinsic silver value seems like a lot of work for little reward.

[vacuum]

Why exactly would you want to do this? I could see if you were extracting silver/gold from old electronics or something but to do it with coins that already have the intrinsic silver value seems like a lot of work for little reward.
My guess is that everyone knows what the value of US coins are. But some old coin from another country is questionable. Once you've got pure silver however, you've just made it more liquid.

That's why he got that bag of coins for $20. No one knew what they were exactly or where to sell them.

[hoarder]

But some old coin from another country is questionable. Once you've got pure silver however, you've just made it more liquid.What could possibly be more questionable and less liquid than homemade bars?

[Twisted Titan]

Its good technology for the underground economy.

when silver hits 1000 buxx a ounce lots of home made refineries will pop up.because nobody is going to want to pay windfall tax profits and new reporting requirments so gubbermint can more effeciently track you

[hoarder]

Selling any homemade bar will involve an assay. That would limit your buyers to refiners. They would want to hold your bar for a period of time, get your name and phone number, demand a discount, etc..etc..

No matter what oddball foreign coins you have, a refiner would know what they are and no assay would be called for.

This home smelter topic has come up many times, but the question of WHY remains unanswered.

[Blink]

Why exactly would you want to do this? I could see if you were extracting silver/gold from old electronics or something but to do it with coins that already have the intrinsic silver value seems like a lot of work for little reward.

Some people need a hobby. Better than watching teevee........

[chad]

i'd never barter or trade with anyone who has some nuggets he "made in his basement."

[beefsteak]

A) Selling any homemade bar will involve an assay. That would B)limit your buyers to refiners. They would want to hold your bar for a period of time, get your name and phone number, demand a C) discount, etc..etc..

No matter what oddball foreign coins you have, a D)refiner would know what they are and no assay would be called for.

This home smelter topic has come up many times, but the question of E)WHY remains unanswered.

Allow moi?

A) NOT necessarily.

There are a variety of destructive assays. They would be: fire assay, Inductive Coupled Plasma, Atomic Adsorbtion Spectroscopy, etc. A real NCIS/Abby Sciuto type visual comes to mind here.

And there are tests that don't require the whole "round/lump/ingot/blob to be dissolved" in order to achieve a highly reliable answer.
They would be Specific Gravity, Sonic, Rolled super thin and then XRF, and others.

Remember, refiners buy all day long, every day, from every conceivable source imaginable. Quick yes/no/how pure methods have had to and have evolved over time to accomodate large numbers of interfaces with the scrap selling public at a retail refiner's customer service counter.

B) Again, No.
If various, affordable, and easily purchased yes/no equipment is obtained, then anyone having said equipment and skillset is a potential buyer.

C) Again, another misdirection/misunderstanding of the specific marketplace where precious metals business is conducted.

ALL PRECIOUS METALS BUSINESS IS A PRICE NEGOTIATION BUSINESS MODEL.

A discount behind some standard, in the case of PM is ALWAYS offered by a low level PM buyer.

A premium over some standard is ALWAYS SOUGHT by the PM seller.

Truth betold, yours truly is willing to wager the low level PM BUYER is the one making the big bucks due to one fact. They already have their buyer who is a bigger fish, ultimate fabricator purchase order issuing manufacturer/user lined up. The low level buyer, and that includes ALL REFINERS, are simply haggling over their profit margins.

3 Haggle Points to every PM transaction.
Amount offered
Purity offered
Negotiated price at which minds will meet and business takes place.

D) A refiner is no more an expert in all antiquities or current issues in foreign coins metallic composition than Bernake is. That's simply an ignorant fallacy.

E) Capitalistic Profit Opps abound.
Get the reputation as a buyer, acquire the affordable testing equipment (notice I did not say ASSAY equipment) locate in advance to your buy, the "bigger fish to whom you will sell" and voila..."pick a profit margin."
Eazepeezy.

In a rising intrinsic value, PM commodity economic system, home refiners such as Serpo has highlighted in his OP, will emerge and fill the gap between scrap supplier and ultimate consumer, be they consumer military, jewelers, pharma, or any number of other FABRICATING manufacturers who ALWAYS buy above the current price standard in a negotiated price marketplace. ALWAYS.

Their end product, drugs, electrical contacts, aerospace coatings, thin-inks applications, dental, whatever will ALWAYS achieve the spot plus premium ultimate retail price point most only dream about.

I've always envied those in this particular genre' and how they accomplish their pursuit of enormous profits through acquisition/testing/flip to next level strategy as a business model. Took a couple courses on it once upon a time, a looong time ago.


beefsteak

[vacuum]

The other thing is that this guy is stockpiling these things. It's not like he's trying to sell 4 buttons to someone. He'd probably have a bag of 50 oz of the stuff. So an assay on a sample of the bag should be good enough.

[steyr_m]

But some old coin from another country is questionable.

Not really. All you need is a coin book and it will tell you the percentages of the alloy.

[palani]

All you need is a coin book and it will tell you the percentages of the alloy.

A trip to Mexico around mid '95 and the peso/dollar ratio was 3000:1. A couple years later on a trip to a border town revealed a peso/dollar ratio of 9:1. A lot of the old pesos were shipped to Cedar Rapids for processing back into coin stock. A lot of these old pesos were culled because they were made of lead (aka counterfeit).

Can't hardly find a handbook that is going to teach common sense.

[hoarder]

If various, affordable, and easily purchased yes/no equipment is obtained, then anyone having said equipment and skillset is a potential buyer. Maybe 1% of bullion investors have any of this equipment and know how to use it with confidence. They would still demand a huge discount because they would eventually have to sell it to a very small sector of buyers. WHY MELT IT?? It only loses value when you melt it. If you have the urge to put metal in a pot and melt it, get a couple pounds of wheel weights and melt them.

[beefsteak]

Can't hardly find a handbook that is going to teach common sense.Hence the need for portable, non-destructive TESTING TOOLS!

Specific Gravity (conducted in a large pill bottle with water, a string, and a set of portable scales" for just one example) would have picked out that leaded counterfeit in a NY second.

Jis sayin'.....

Thanks for the story. I enjoyed it.

But why Cedar Rapids Iowa process far far away from a "border town?" Surely costs could have been spared simply by doing bidness closer to "said border town...."

[beefsteak]

Maybe 1% of bullion investors have any of this equipment and know how to use it with confidence. They would still demand a huge discount because they would eventually have to sell it to a very small sector of buyers. WHY MELT IT?? It only loses value when you melt it. If you have the urge to put metal in a pot and melt it, get a couple pounds of wheel weights and melt them.

You don't understand the business model, it's plain to see. Stick to stackin', and leave the scrapin' and refinin', aka upgrading the purity of the scrap to the cashflow crowd.

If you don't want to spring for $25 bucks to get a portable scale,
or
spring ZIPPO for an empty pill bottle and a length of thread
or
can't afford a potato from the corner grocer's,
....
then by all means leave the cash flow/dial a profit margin level of PM investing to those who have the potato and the brains to do it.

In otherwords, quit dissin' that about which you know N-O-T-H-I-N-G, and are too closed minded to learn.

Deal?

[steyr_m]

A trip to Mexico around mid '95 and the peso/dollar ratio was 3000:1. A couple years later on a trip to a border town revealed a peso/dollar ratio of 9:1. A lot of the old pesos were shipped to Cedar Rapids for processing back into coin stock. A lot of these old pesos were culled because they were made of lead (aka counterfeit).

Can't hardly find a handbook that is going to teach common sense.

That being said, it could be just as easy to fake US Coins. I know they are key dates, but there are lots of Morgan Dollar fakes out there too

[palani]

But why Cedar Rapids Iowa process far far away from a "border town?" Surely costs could have been spared simply by doing bidness closer to "said border town...." That was the melt facility. PMX. Run by the Koreans. They provide brass nickel clad stock for both the U.S. and Canadian mints, as well as others.

[steyr_m]

Hence the need for portable, non-destructive TESTING TOOLS!

Specific Gravity (conducted in a large pill bottle with water, a string, and a set of portable scales" for just one example) would have picked out that leaded counterfeit in a NY second.


Can you provide something a bit more comprehensive?

[hoarder]

You don't understand the business model, it's plain to see. Stick to stackin', and leave the scrapin' and refinin', aka upgrading the purity of the scrap to the cashflow crowd.

If you don't want to spring for $25 bucks to get a portable scale,
or
spring ZIPPO for an empty pill bottle and a length of thread
or
can't afford a potato from the corner grocer's,
....
then by all means leave the cash flow/dial a profit margin level of PM investing to those who have the potato and the brains to do it.

In otherwords, quit dissin' that about which you know N-O-T-H-I-N-G, and are too closed minded to learn.

Deal?Just one question (for the third time) WHY melt it? Since you know everything. Just askin', sir.

[General of Darkness]

I'd probably blow my self up doing this.

[steyr_m]

I'd probably blow my self up doing this.

Dude, you're not making Meth...

[beefsteak]

And I'll reply to you for the third time, k?

FABRICATORS MELT IT BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THEIR BUYER/CUSTOMER WANTS AND WILL PAY EXTRA FOR!!!!!!!!!

To put it another way...to pursue your line of thinking to its ultimate denouement, you are stating that it is your unequivocal position that fabricated coinage form is the highest price received END USAGE POTENTIAL conceivably attainable by any silver savvy capitalists.

You truly know better.

[beefsteak]

Are you asking for a step by step Specific Gravity testing procedure of a small, "known compositional purity" item, using scales, water, pillbottle and length of thread?

[hoarder]

And I'll reply to you for the third time, k?

FABRICATORS MELT IT BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THEIR BUYER/CUSTOMER WANTS AND WILL PAY EXTRA FOR!!!!!!!!!

What kind of customers prefer to buy silver in the form of crude homemade mystery bars and why?

[beefsteak]

Asked and answered.

[hoarder]

Asked and answered.In other words you don't know.


Does anyone else know what kind of customers prefer to buy silver in the form of crude homemade mystery bars and why?

[beefsteak]

I already answered. May I respectfully suggest that instead of continually badgering me, you would consider re-reading my contributions to this thread?

I take offense at your insulting epithet that "I don't know."

I've already answered. DYODD

[hoarder]

I already answered. May I respectfully suggest that instead of continually badgering me, you would consider re-reading my contributions to this thread? To give you the benefit of the doubt, I just re-read all your posts in this thread a third time to make sure I didn't skip over the answer I'm asking for. You did not answer it.


I take offense at your insulting epithet that "I don't know."

I've already answered. DYODDI beg your pardon your majesty, but did you not post this:?


In otherwords, quit dissin' that about which you know N-O-T-H-I-N-G, and are too closed minded to learn.

Deal?

Owning assay equipment and knowing how to use it does not guarantee anything to a potential buyer who would either have to do it again himself or have an assayer do it. This adds to the buyers overhead, for which he will demand a discount, unless it's a large quantity in which case he will demand you leave it with him before payment and your anonymity will be breached. I realize there may be 2 or 3 refiners on this continent who would do it while you wait without asking your name, but there is no advantage to limiting yourself to 2 or 3 buyers who may change their policies tomorrow.

The question remains unanswered:
What kind of customers would PREFER to buy silver in the form of crude homemade mystery bars over what they were before melting and why?
Can someone give a the reason to melt foreign coins or sterling?

[beefsteak]

Again, read ALL my responses, not just pick and chose. I've already answered this.

Why are you deliberately ignoring E) Capitalistic Profit Opps abound.
of post #10?

Last reply to you. This is tiresome and others who would like to learn are put off by your feigned density.


beefsteak

[vacuum]

Here's the gold version:

Dummies Guide to GOLD bullion refining at home as a long term precious metal investment - made EASY
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread812741/pg1

[madfranks]

No matter what the coin, a known weight and purity of precious metal will always be worth more than a nugget where your only documentation of what you have is the "word" of the guy selling it to you. Even foreign coins, you're better off just keeping them as they are rather than melting them yourself.

[Neuro]

Again, read ALL my responses, not just pick and chose. I've already answered this.

Why are you deliberately ignoring E) Capitalistic Profit Opps abound.
of post #10?
Last reply to you. This is tiresome and others who would like to learn are put off by your feigned density.


beefsteak
I guess I am a bit thick too! Are you saying that a company who sells refined silver to industry, would buy these refined home made bars, and pass them on to their customers, instead of the industry buying 1000 t.oz COMEX bars, or silver granule, with very small premiums to spot?

So the dealer would sell it to his customer at what 90-95% of spot? That would mean he wouldn't pay more than 80-90% of spot, to the guy having made the bar?

Did I interpret you correctly Beefsteak? Or what other buyers do you foresee for homemade bars?