Cartel Dumps 102.5 Million Ounces of Paper Silver in 7 Minutes, Yet RAID FAILS!

[Serpo]

Things maybe starting to warm up...............






http://i42.tinypic.com/6rhrow.png








After the cartel had expended 102.5 million paper ounces of silver unsuccessfully, the large buyer then bid silver back up to near the day's highs as the paper selling onslaught subsided.

http://silverdoctors.blogspot.com.au/2012/02/cartel-dumps-1025-million-ounces-of.html

[beefsteak]

The Flash Crash phenom lives to play 'nother day.


beefsteak

[Shami-Amourae]

BrotherJohnF covered this last night:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSYViRvMveA

[Serpo]

The Flash Crash phenom lives to play 'nother day.


beefsteak

And maybe in the process get all the silver sucked out of them.........

[beefsteak]

Serpo,
as you may recall earlier brokerage days' anecdotes shared sporadically, you might suspect I have a different take on this. Yours truly is offering it here as a counterpoint to a very solemn intonation of the earnest young man in your 23min vid clip, which he executed very well, I might add. I just don't agree with his nor Silver Doctors' conclusion, that's all.

To put it another way, sometimes we see what we want to see, instead of what is. Allow me to offer my take, please.

Traders, especially retail traders put in "GTC stink bids" hoping for blackswan event to let them into the market at ridiculous buy price points, such as this chart would SEEM to indicate truly occurred. BUT, they never get filled, because the COMEX has what they call a "fast market rule." And NO ONE, but NO ONE retail or otherwise gets fills when "fast market conditions" are declared by the exchange. It would be interesting to know if "fast market announcement was made" on the trader's screens or audibly via squawk boxes.

Granted, that was a 10min intervallic charted series of events as shown in a 60 second chart. It may look different on a 4 second chart for example, but Net Dania doesn't break it down by ticks. The real market place does, but one has to pay big bucks to see that kind of data stream and know how to parse it. However, that 60 sec. chart in and of itself, is the clue right there that this is a pre-ordained, pre-planned event, announced to those major players (bullion banks) who "need to know" what's happening and how to plan for it.

Observe if you will, the gradual but marked orderly decline as those on the floor a/w/a those with their algo's --deliberately step aside in orderly fashion for this "event" to take place. In otherwords, look at the preceding series of 60 sec intervallic SHORT TERM trades creating the downtrend going into this anomalous 10 minutes. Most don't look at the "before" just the during and after...because that's when THEIR attention shifted, timewise. It's normal, armchair analysts' behavior.

Then when the "all clear is given" aka the 10min, pre-announced test is concluded, it is immediately back up to previous levels...(check the power uptrendline from $26up) and back to normal trading we go. No gold/silver spreads were reversed, which is another clue.

Silver just resumed a "since $26 base building" higher trend based upon Greek and QEIII actionable events on the world scene as being played out in the COMEX silver sand pile.

If I cared, and still sat at a "desk" as in the old days, I'd be cross checking the time zone in other global bourses, and collating wire service news data, to see who was bringing up a new bourse, or installing a new set of servers, etc., or whatever, during their DOWN TIME,
NY be damned.

This was an equipment test, nothing more, nothing less.

*Because it was advertised in advance to the players who "politely stepped aside as they were asked...
*Because it was a defined sideways trading range with a nearly identical top and bottom of the candlesticks length as revealed in the 60 sec time window afforded by freebie Net Dania...
*Because it was "time certain" i.e., it lasted 10 full minutes before the "top of the hour" here stateside,
*Because it returned to normal with upward bias (as underscored by a power uptrend line with it's starting "pitchfork point" at the $26-ish area) ...
....this was a new technology test, I'd swear to it.

Reminds me of the tests conducted by the ECB just prior to the official EMU launch date GMT 12:59 (London) when all global systems were publicly pre-announced to and made the newswires, advising said "test was being undertaken." Obviously, massive amount of currencies simultaneously involved.

This was just a particular silver bourse somewhere on the planet, doing a convenient to them, 10 minute work the kinks out type test, which happened to be INconvenient in another time zone, but happened to occur in the NY session and spotted by uneducated seers.

People in these PM markets need to understand the "baton handoff" that occurs in the PM markets.

The daily marathon/"amazing PM race" does NOT start and stop in NY.

NY is just a "pony express station" on the east to west 'as the sun moves' silver circuit" as it were. (pardon my mixing metaphors.)

While I'm mixing metaphors, permit me one more? Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it....;D

[Serpo]

Great Beefsteak , this is very interesting information and thats why we put stuff out there to try and get to the nitty gritty of matters.

I found it difficult to understand the identical trading ranges.

[Twisted Titan]

They can do a paper drive any day of the week all it does is two things:

Puts it on sale for the smartest money in the room

Makes the stronger hands even stronger

[Serpo]

same link

Anonymous said... I don’t know if anyone else noticed, but at about the same time as the Friday ’102.5 Million Ounces of Paper Silver in 7 Minutes’ the US Mint suspended sales for 2011 Silver Eagles temporarily. As of this post, they are still not available. (Price was $45.95)

[Neuro]

Serpo,
as you may recall earlier brokerage days' anecdotes shared sporadically, you might suspect I have a different take on this. Yours truly is offering it here as a counterpoint to a very solemn intonation of the earnest young man in your 23min vid clip, which he executed very well, I might add. I just don't agree with his nor Silver Doctors' conclusion, that's all.

To put it another way, sometimes we see what we want to see, instead of what is. Allow me to offer my take, please.

Traders, especially retail traders put in "GTC stink bids" hoping for blackswan event to let them into the market at ridiculous buy price points, such as this chart would SEEM to indicate truly occurred. BUT, they never get filled, because the COMEX has what they call a "fast market rule." And NO ONE, but NO ONE retail or otherwise gets fills when "fast market conditions" are declared by the exchange. It would be interesting to know if "fast market announcement was
made" on the trader's screens or audibly via squawk boxes.

Granted, that was a 10min intervallic charted series of events as shown in a 60 second chart. It may look different on a 4 second chart for example, but Net Dania doesn't break it down by ticks. The real market place does, but one has to pay big bucks to see that kind of data stream and know how to parse it. However, that 60 sec. chart in and of itself, is the clue right there that this is a pre-ordained, pre-planned event, announced to those major players (bullion banks) who "need to know" what's happening and how to plan for it.

Observe if you will, the gradual but marked orderly decline as those on the floor a/w/a those with their algo's --deliberately step aside in orderly fashion for this "event" to take place. In otherwords, look at the preceding series of 60 sec intervallic SHORT TERM trades creating the downtrend going into this anomalous 10 minutes. Most don't look at the "before" just the during and after...because that's when THEIR attention shifted, timewise. It's normal, armchair analysts' behavior.

Then when the "all clear is given" aka the 10min, pre-announced test is concluded, it is immediately back up to previous levels...(check the power uptrendline from $26up) and back to normal trading we go. No gold/silver spreads were reversed, which is another clue.

Silver just resumed a "since $26 base building" higher trend based upon Greek and QEIII actionable events on the world scene as being played out in the COMEX silver sand pile.

If I cared, and still sat at a "desk" as in the old days, I'd be cross checking the time zone in other global bourses, and collating wire service news data, to see who was bringing up a new bourse, or installing a new set of servers, etc., or whatever, during their DOWN TIME,

NY be damned.

This was an equipment test, nothing more, nothing less.

*Because it was advertised in advance to the players who "politely stepped aside as they were asked...
*Because it was a defined sideways trading range with a nearly identical top and bottom of the candlesticks length as revealed in the 60 sec time window afforded by freebie Net Dania...
*Because it was "time certain" i.e., it lasted 10 full minutes before the "top of the hour" here stateside,
*Because it returned to normal with upward bias (as underscored by a power uptrend line with it's starting "pitchfork point" at the $26-ish area) ...
....this was a new technology test, I'd swear to it.

Reminds me of the tests conducted by the ECB just prior to the official EMU launch date GMT 12:59 (London) when all global systems were publicly pre-announced to and made the newswires, advising said "test was being undertaken." Obviously, massive amount of currencies simultaneously involved.

This was just a particular silver bourse somewhere on the planet, doing a convenient to them, 10 minute work the kinks out type test, which happened to be INconvenient in another time zone, but happened to occur in the NY session and spotted by uneducated seers.

People in these PM markets need to understand the "baton handoff" that occurs in the PM markets.

The daily marathon/"amazing PM race" does NOT start and stop in NY.

NY is just a "pony express station" on the east to west 'as the sun moves' silver circuit" as it were. (pardon my mixing metaphors.)

While I'm mixing metaphors, permit me one more? Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it....;D

I am not so sure you are right about this. Apparently the commercial short position increased by a massive 20.000 contracts last week... Same amount as this raid...

See here:
http://gold-silver.us/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=519651

They really could have sold a larger amount of Silver short in those 7 minutes, than the Hunt brothers acquired in the 70's. If that is true, and they are up against a cartel or country of buyers, that have the resources and will power to counter their raids, call their bluffs, and put their gonads in the vice, then we may be in the short squeeze of the modern age...

If indeed this was a failed raid, as I think is likely, then I wonder who the counterparty is? Another country? Hedgefunds? Sprott?

[Neuro]

Serpo,
as you may recall earlier brokerage days' anecdotes shared sporadically, you might suspect I have a different take on this. Yours truly is offering it here as a counterpoint to a very solemn intonation of the earnest young man in your 23min vid clip, which he executed very well, I might add. I just don't agree with his nor Silver Doctors' conclusion, that's all.

To put it another way, sometimes we see what we want to see, instead of what is. Allow me to offer my take, please.

Traders, especially retail traders put in "GTC stink bids" hoping for blackswan event to let them into the market at ridiculous buy price points, such as this chart would SEEM to indicate truly occurred. BUT, they never get filled, because the COMEX has what they call a "fast market rule." And NO ONE, but NO ONE retail or otherwise gets fills when "fast market conditions" are declared by the exchange. It would be interesting to know if "fast market announcement was
made" on the trader's screens or audibly via squawk boxes.

Granted, that was a 10min intervallic charted series of events as shown in a 60 second chart. It may look different on a 4 second chart for example, but Net Dania doesn't break it down by ticks. The real market place does, but one has to pay big bucks to see that kind of data stream and know how to parse it. However, that 60 sec. chart in and of itself, is the clue right there that this is a pre-ordained, pre-planned event, announced to those major players (bullion banks) who "need to know" what's happening and how to plan for it.

Observe if you will, the gradual but marked orderly decline as those on the floor a/w/a those with their algo's --deliberately step aside in orderly fashion for this "event" to take place. In otherwords, look at the preceding series of 60 sec intervallic SHORT TERM trades creating the downtrend going into this anomalous 10 minutes. Most don't look at the "before" just the during and after...because that's when THEIR attention shifted, timewise. It's normal, armchair analysts' behavior.

Then when the "all clear is given" aka the 10min, pre-announced test is concluded, it is immediately back up to previous levels...(check the power uptrendline from $26up) and back to normal trading we go. No gold/silver spreads were reversed, which is another clue.

Silver just resumed a "since $26 base building" higher trend based upon Greek and QEIII actionable events on the world scene as being played out in the COMEX silver sand pile.

If I cared, and still sat at a "desk" as in the old days, I'd be cross checking the time zone in other global bourses, and collating wire service news data, to see who was bringing up a new bourse, or installing a new set of servers, etc., or whatever, during their DOWN TIME,

NY be damned.

This was an equipment test, nothing more, nothing less.

*Because it was advertised in advance to the players who "politely stepped aside as they were asked...
*Because it was a defined sideways trading range with a nearly identical top and bottom of the candlesticks length as revealed in the 60 sec time window afforded by freebie Net Dania...
*Because it was "time certain" i.e., it lasted 10 full minutes before the "top of the hour" here stateside,
*Because it returned to normal with upward bias (as underscored by a power uptrend line with it's starting "pitchfork point" at the $26-ish area) ...
....this was a new technology test, I'd swear to it.

Reminds me of the tests conducted by the ECB just prior to the official EMU launch date GMT 12:59 (London) when all global systems were publicly pre-announced to and made the newswires, advising said "test was being undertaken." Obviously, massive amount of currencies simultaneously involved.

This was just a particular silver bourse somewhere on the planet, doing a convenient to them, 10 minute work the kinks out type test, which happened to be INconvenient in another time zone, but happened to occur in the NY session and spotted by uneducated seers.

People in these PM markets need to understand the "baton handoff" that occurs in the PM markets.

The daily marathon/"amazing PM race" does NOT start and stop in NY.

NY is just a "pony express station" on the east to west 'as the sun moves' silver circuit" as it were. (pardon my mixing metaphors.)

While I'm mixing metaphors, permit me one more? Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it....;D

I am not so sure you are right about this. Apparently the commercial short position increased by a massive 20.000 contracts last week... Same amount as this raid...

See here:
http://gold-silver.us/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=519651

They really could have sold a larger amount of Silver short in those 7 minutes, than the Hunt brothers acquired in the 70's. If that is true, and they are up against a cartel or country of buyers, that have the resources and will power to counter their raids, call their bluffs, and put their gonads in the vice, then we may be in the short squeeze of the modern age...

If indeed this was a failed raid, as I think is likely, then I wonder who the counterparty is? Another country? Hedgefunds? Sprott?

[beefsteak]

Hi, Neuro,
One would have to subscribe to the theory that 102mil ounces thrown at the market in 10 minute window was a failed raid. Sorry, but I don't, buddy.

Secondly, while the stats may indicate 20K contracts added on the short-side in the last reporting period, there is NO statement as to which contract month(s) these were distributed in.

Thirdly, when massive new shorts are established, historical stats show that resistance is created, not an immediate restoration / assumption of the uptrendline from $26 interim low of a few weeks back. There is no demoralization of the masses evident here. Quite the contrary. That, to me anyway, suggests not a failure, but instead a need for further research and an alternative contributive event/causality.

Don't know who's pundit parade I'm raining on, jis' sayin' there's more than one interpolation available.

I would need more data so that this "dog would hunt..." and I don't have it, at least not yet. Still willing to be shown it.

The original cycle established by the exchanges spans a period of 2 years into the future for contract months into which activity can be inserted/closed/optioned, etc. There are outlier months that could cumulatively contain the massive short position initiation you are reporting.

I don't see the evidence in this single chart distillation via Net Dania 60 sec promulgated prominently in that 23min vid clip. I could be missing something tho'.

Still my story, and I'm still stickin' to it. ;D


beefsteak

[Neuro]

Hey beefsteak! Stick with it! Right now there is not information on it to say either way really. Could be somewhere in the middle too... The cartel attempts a raid and sell 50 million oz's of silver. They meet too much resistance, and decides to minimize their losses, and buys back what they sold in the first minutes the next couple of minutes. That would also give a turnover of a 100 million oz's in 7 minutes. The drop prior to the raid could be explained by insiders positioning themselves to the expected drop in price, the gain after for them going out of their positions after the failed raid.

Maybe this is a likely explanation?

[gunDriller]

Hey beefsteak! Stick with it! Right now there is not information on it to say either way really. Could be somewhere in the middle too... The cartel attempts a raid and sell 50 million oz's of silver. They meet too much resistance, and decides to minimize their losses, and buys back what they sold in the first minutes the next couple of minutes. That would also give a turnover of a 100 million oz's in 7 minutes. The drop prior to the raid could be explained by insiders positioning themselves to the expected drop in price, the gain after for them going out of their positions after the failed raid.

Maybe this is a likely explanation?


how can one of us get their hands on the detailed market data about trading transactions ?

do you have to pay some kind of fee & become a CME member or something ?

[beefsteak]

Gunny,

back in the day, the most reliable research source of data was Moore Research, in Eugene, Oregon. Haven't used them in years. I do subscribe to their email updates so that I continuously see the calendar of events from which a great deal of cyclical influence is derived. Still see them occasionally referred to by the serious students/purveyors in the marketplace.

As far as CME, COMEX, KCBOT, PE, Minneapolis, etc., exchanges are concerned, contact each one via their homepage, and ask for a package pricing. The CME is a commodity exchange as opposed to equities exchange packages. Usually the pricing is monthly increments.

The terms for individuals are different (lower) than those who are professionals. Individuals have to sign extra paperwork which prevents them from repackaging/transmitting signals to non-authorized. And yes, one is securing made a minimalist level of membership in the various exchanges. Kind of like cable TV packages only a different subject matter.

Those packages come with vanilla news reporting and it streams constantly in crawlers on your computer screen or in a computer frame. Takes a while to get accustomed to the overwhelming amount of info constantly washing over your consciousness, and learning when and what to pay attention to, and what to disregard.

Back in the day, quotes were received by specialized radio receiver rectangular boxes with antenna mounted ontop of roofs. Don't know what they're doing nowadays if one doesn't have internet through which one receives parsed info. Different pricing packages for different levels of information. Some are RT, some are EOD.

Here's an array which will give you a suggested point to initiate your research. You'll notice the CME is about 1/2 down the page.

http://ih.advfn.com/p.php?pid=prodmatrix&from=smatrix


beefsteak

[beefsteak]

Yo' Gunny.....
Did you see this response to your "CME" question?

[gunDriller]

Yo' Gunny.....
Did you see this response to your "CME" question?

Yes - Thanks !

$112 a month for "Realtime commodity prices".

I wonder how that is different than Kitco live prices.


What I was hoping to find is detailed information about trades, e.g. "JPM just placed an order to sell 2000 contracts of silver @ $35 an ounce" (that would be 10 million ounces). The background information about who is trading what.

Or maybe that's considered "insider info" ?

[Awoke]

Amazing posts, Beefsteak. I wish I could understand the technicalities of it all.

[beefsteak]

Hi, Gunny,
That's all considered "Real Time Info" and not particularly insider info, unless someone from JPM is doing the "telling"...LOL when they were told not to tell.

The clearing houses know at the end of the day, because it was and still is their job to match up trades between buyers and sellers and assign the suppliers (sellers) inventory to the buyers (longs) seeking inventory, paper or physical. Well, I take that back, the clearing houses are SUPPOSED to know at the end of the day and do the match ups. Truth betold,
and it has been told and verified by non other than the BK trustee himself,
there are still outstanding and unmatched MFG commodity trades and will be for years, due to the MF Global Clearinghouse failure due to bankruptcy, and now some bankruptcy court appointed trustee muckin' things up.

On the street side (equities) their skirts are no cleaner....there are still thousands and thousands of unmatched trades from the Lehman bankruptcy debacle. And we're not just talking actual unmatched trades in Lehman's physical equity stock shares, but also unmatched trades generated by Lehman's trading pit in every conceivable equity/index/option/derivative under the sun, plus all the private trading that goes on that NEVER EVEN HITS the wires, called "Curb Trades."

There are entire teams of real live humans poring through physical paper trying to do matchups since the Lehman debacle. Yes, currently. 24/7/365 in shifts.

Even those who THINK they know, don't really know, because since MFG went belly up, NO BODY KNOWS!

There maybe a tweet feed from a real trader, I don't now as I don't tweet. In our trading pit at the brokerage firm, we received real phonecalls from the trading desks on the floor at those endless phone banks that radiated from the center of the room outward and had about 20-30 FOOT chords which were always getting tangled up. That was horse and buggy days compared to how telecommunications are nowadays. The guys/gals on the phone banks had nothing to do but call back with order fills (before electronic trading) and give tidbits about tempo of trading, and who was doing want according to rumors THEY were hearing.

WIth stuff going electronic and all the proxy servers handling communications nowadays, it is even LESS transparent than it was before, and far more "instantaneous."

So, yes, there is a level of yak available via the real-time feeds, but....things take place at such a rapid pace nowadays, by the time some schmo typed JPM B 5K Ag/Enter, JPMorgan could have sold it and bought it back 70 times electronically via blackbox computer algorithm e*trading. Trades now take place in millisec.

IN the old days, JPMorgan would use beards to disguise their presence on the floor. You'd have to be "in the know" to know who was placing orders for them (the beard) instead of looking for the brightly colored jacket and abbreviated name badge on the Left Breast Pocket of said jacket, to know if it was JPMorgan or WellsFargo, or BoA, etc, or even JESinclair doing the buying or selling in the commodity pits.


beefsteak

[beefsteak]

Gunny,
sorry, forgot one of your questions.

Kitco is a trading quotes repackager of higher ups who have RT information. Kitco signed the agreements at a higher price of course, to allow them to repackage info because it brings them site traffic and enhances their ability to move physical product and entrap folks into their "pool purchase accounts." Kitco is TIME DELAYED as opposed to real feed.

Another repackager is INO.com who makes it clearly understood they are only updating every 10 minutes. You don't have to ask for the updates from INO, your screen will blink and voila, the newest 10min update is presented interactively for your consumption.

While I believe Kitco is more quickly "refreshed" than 10 minute intervals, Kitco is NOT live quotes. Since they are dependent upon a 3rd party from which they package their datastream for their customer's enjoyment, mainly to keep said customer or potential customer continuously logged onto the Kitco site...they are UNAVAILABLE quite consistently when trading activity gets too volatile...and they just "freeze" or "get stuck"...I do not rely upon Kitco.

Hope this helps.


beefsteak

[beefsteak]

Serpo and others,

Now, the reason for the "practice session" 9:50 to 10AM EST (30 minutes after London closes their bourses for the day) 4 DAYS AGO, to which you drew attention to in your OP http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?59180-Cartel-Dumps-102.5-Million-Ounces-of-Paper-Silver-in-7-Minutes-Yet-RAID-FAILS!&p=519647&viewfull=1#post519647 (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?59180-Cartel-Dumps-102.5-Million-Ounces-of-Paper-Silver-in-7-Minutes-Yet-RAID-FAILS%21&p=519647&viewfull=1#post519647)
is fully revealed.

When you feel like posting Bro. F's visual from Today's actual sell-off (which occurred AFTER 10AM on the dot---which coincides with London's LTRO announcement and 36.5X hypothecation to rescue Euro Banks with Fed Reserve Swap Lines) it is my belief you will see in your "side by side comparison" the difference in what "system practice" looks like and what "plan execution" looks like.

For starters, there is no immediate resumption of trend, in the "plan execution" graphic.

Hope this helps, Serpo.


beefsteak

[MAGNES]

http://i42.tinypic.com/6rhrow.png
After the cartel had expended 102.5 million paper ounces of silver unsuccessfully, the large buyer then bid silver back up to near the day's highs as the paper selling onslaught subsided.

http://silverdoctors.blogspot.com.au/2012/02/cartel-dumps-1025-million-ounces-of.html

That blog is sensationalizing issues without educating you to do your own analysis
and ignoring key points. This is my second post on their " analysis ".

That is not a raid, first of all, you don't need me to tell you that, that is right on
the 200 SMA, those appear to be one minute bars, not even trading in a
range of $0.25, a bid ask range, that is also a key area I just posted about
in another one of their " cartel raid " articles, 20 K contracts is nothing
for this area, lots of things may have happened that were dirty though,
stop out the longs by hitting their sell stops, that is where most are.
Look at a chart. What we need is a daily end of day COT, we don't have
that, GS stopped trading TOCOM GC because we were watching that daily.
We don't have that transparency here, unfortunately.

The " cartel " didn't dump anything, it is possible though they
took the positions of the longs instantaneously. This would show
up in COT chart as closing out some shorts, a delayed week goes
by from COT chart to COT chart, lots happens we don't see.
If this is a take down operation they are shorting at the top.
Like at 37. They could of popped GC past 1800 and suckered
more in for a day or two, then bam, lots of highs are interday
with huge volumes.

Look at some basic charts I have posted to see what I am talking about, 35 range.

My previous post on another one of their articles, I go into greater detail, it applies here too.
hhttp://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?59280-BREAKING-Cartel-Dumps-225-Mill-Oz-of-Paper-Silver-Over-30-Minutes-Gold-Silver-Raided& (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?59249-I-d-just-like-to-say-it-s-nice-to-see-silver-holding-past-33.&p=520892&viewfull=1#post520892)

[Neuro]

Could have been a test run for what they did today. They just threw out a few thousand contracts, to get a feel for how the market reacts, to see how much they need to throw behind a successful raid. Then publish the rumor this was a failed raid to lure bagholders in for the real raid, so today they were armed with the knowledge how much they needed to do a successful raid, further they had the opportunity over 4 days to increase their shorts at a good price...