From my "experience" every action is driven by self interest

[General of Darkness]

Just sit back and think about that for a second.

"Every action is driven by self interest". Personally I understand my actions for the most part, I'm honest about that and I understand that there are times that I can be irrational, but that's another story. So back to the topic, when I trained my dogs tonight it was really self evident that everything in this world is based on self interest. I don't mean it to be a flippant statement so I'll prove it.

As some people know, when I make posts that are longer than, it's the jews, I tend to be getting granular and I'll reverse engineer things.

So you take the dog. In my case, they're working dogs. Their entire motivation is the reward during training. In Schutzhund it's the "rabbit", the prey drive that's cultivated from a 4 month old puppy chasing a rag on a whip to transitioning them to the sleeve. The working dogs motivation, or drive is based on the self interest of killing of the prey, which we substituted with the biting of the sleeve. For the most part it's pretty darn easy when you have working dog genetics.

So we get into humans.

What drives humans?

It's self gratification. And before people say that's bullshit, I do consider myself a selfless person, but at the same when I really do look at my actions, it's fricken based on self gratification.

Let's start simple.

Go to work = Money (self gratification, we all need money)
Help other people at work = Team player (self gratification, because that might help me, I'm viewed as a good guy. Maybe I train somebody and this person does well and it reflects well on me)
Give homeless people money = being nice (self gratification, this is one of those gamble moments. Maybe if I help them I'll get some karma or good luck, it's pretty much bullshit)

I challenge you to look at things in your life and other people's lives to find things that aren't in their interest. Once you recognize what makes people "tick", then you have the upper hand, be it in love, life, work or whatever. If you can fill or even better FEED the self interest, you win, and that's in your interest.

Sex, Love, Money, Pride, Glory, all of it, it's all about self interest.

[Gaillo]

General... that's the smartest thing you've ever posted here! Not bad for a dweeb like you... ;D

RATIONAL self-interest is what it's ALL about. I challenge anyone on this forum to offer an alternative (non-mentally-ill) explanation for human behavior! ;)

[letter_factory]

buddha, that you?

[Glass]

Its an excellent explanation. I think its the driver for all creatures. Being the middleman is where the action is at. Satisfy a want/need and you will prosper.

[Twisted Titan]

Not only are you correct General but the only thing I will add is that reason we act in self interest is for one reason: The Feeling

The reason we do whatever it is is because we are after a paticular feeling.

if dosent make a difference what behavior we engage in ......if I keep asking why did you do that....eventually you reach a point where the answer will be : because it makes me feel good.


ALL ACTION IS BASED ON SELF INTEREST

ALL SELF INTEREST IS BASED ON FEELING

[Spectrism]

Typical words of people who are not only in the world but of the world. The fallen nature of man and the cursed land that requires sweat to break ground and cultivate crops before you can break bread and satisfy unending hunger. It was not always this way nor is it the way of those who have eaten at the table of the Creator.

What do unknowing people call the self-sacrifice of one led by the Spirit to give of himself for others? fools.




It's self gratification. And before people say that's bullshit, I do consider myself a selfless person, but at the same when I really do look at my actions, it's fricken based on self gratification.



Yeup... you have correctly diagnosed YOUR status. You congratulate yourself as "selfless" and probably even think you are "good". Yet, you know that ain't right.

A truly wise person knows that he is only beginning to become wise, and that he lacks wisdom more than he ever thought before.

[palani]

Each action is a 'person'.

[sirgonzo420]

oh shit, the General is an Ayn-Rand-loving Objectivist!


;p

[sirgonzo420]

Typical words of people who are not only in the world but of the world. The fallen nature of man and the cursed land that requires sweat to break ground and cultivate crops before you can break bread and satisfy unending hunger. It was not always this way nor is it the way of those who have eaten at the table of the Creator.

What do unknowing people call the self-sacrifice of one led by the Spirit to give of himself for others? fools.




Yeup... you have correctly diagnosed YOUR status. You congratulate yourself as "selfless" and probably even think you are "good". Yet, you know that ain't right.

A truly wise person knows that he is only beginning to become wise, and that he lacks wisdom more than he ever thought before.



Would you feel the same about your religion if you weren't afraid of going to Hell, or trying to obtain entry to Heaven?

Sounds like "self interest" falls in there somewhere...

[undgrd]

GoD, you nailed it!
Everything you wrote will/could help to ensure my continued success and the success of my family and friends.




Spec, if you ever have an "original" though that doesn't first originate from the "good book", please let us know. Refusing to acknowledge that acts that satisfy self interest can benefit others and can be a good thing, is foolish.

[midnight rambler]

All the money in the world is spent on feelin' good.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2QYJ64iVWE

[Old Herb Lady]

Now watch me open my mouth & get kicked in the teeth.

Releasing the ego is the hardest thing in the world to do. Once you start to melt the ego away , you can feel FULFILLMENT & SELF-LOVE in a good way and the activities that you do everyday will MEAN SOMETHING valuable to you not this 'self-gratification' that you are talking about.
Yes we all do selfish things, but to be selfless , you have to love yourself first.
You're just "stuck" in some ick. You need to get unstuck is all. Then what everybody else is doing (work, activities, etc) doesn't matter
cause you'd be fulfilled & peaceful in your heart and you can give & receive love in a healthy way.

Once you recognize & acknowledge your spirit & release the ego, all that icky stuff will start to dissolve.
Believe it or not you posted that for a reason & you need to know that there is a spiritual awakening happening in the world
amidst this MASSIVE SHIT STORM WE'RE FACING.
Maybe it's your chance to start opening your heart Mishko !

Hope that makes some sense.
(I copied this from a blog, it's NOT from the Bible so maybe you will read it)........






Personal Transformation
You sense that something big is happeningon planet Earth these days, Your inner voice tells you that change is coming,
You feel a restlessness stirring deep within, You find yourself searching for a deeper meaning and purpose to life.

Struggling for survival and happiness in the material world just doesn'tsatisfy you anymore. More and more you are becoming bored and frustrated with the routines of everyday life. You no longer feel connected or attached to things, places, or even people you once felt close to. Your career or personal relationships with other people don't feel the same anymore. Your hunger for the material comforts and pleasures of life leaves you feeling empty and incomplete. You are beginning to realize that lasting peace and happiness is an inner thing. You find yourself breaking ties with all things physical. You find yourself looking into the spiritual or mystical realms for a greater sense of purpose, direction and meaning to life.

Tests of personal, financial or physical hardship have found their way into your life. Perhaps you suffer through periods of profound doubt, depression, dissociation, loss of orientation, rootlessness, and a profound sense of loss.

You often find yourself wondering... who am I, what am I really doing here, or what is my real purpose on this planet?

Perhaps your feelings are becoming more intense, that you cry or become overly emotional for no good reason. You feel that time is speeding up. Sometimes you question your own sanity, but there is a knowingness deep within that says you are on the right path. You find yourself going through a personal cleansing process where old belief systems are being weeded out from your inner being. At times you feel exhausted for no apparent reason. Other times you find it difficult to focus on your job or other types of work.

Your traditional belief system is showing signs of upheaval, and you find yourself detaching from it. You feel a sense of separation from family and friends.

Material things no longer are a source of security for you. For some, it seems that your entire world is falling apart. You begin to look at things in a much different way. Some days everything seems to go right...other days everything seemingly goes wrong. You no longer seem concerned with financial security. You trust in the knowingness of your Higher Self, and in the notion that the spiritual journey is one's true path.

Your old life is dying, while at the sametime a new life is emerging. You find yourself very uncomfortable in the presence of negative energy. Religious dogmas that have motivated you through fear and guilt no longer feel right.
You find yourself waiting for signs. More and more you feel out of touch, out of sync, with the rest of the world. You no longer find meaning in your work. Your life has recently gone through upheaval, perhaps in the form of a health crisis, financial loss, career failure, divorce, a broken relationship.

You feel that your vibration is increasing, and that things such as traffic, noisy malls, busy highways, bustling airports, violent movies, and other kinds of negative energies lower your vibrations.

You now find that attachments to any and all things put limitations on you...that your sense of freedom is diminished.
You find yourself detaching from the rat race, material possessions, negative relationships, and old belief systems that don't serve you well anymore. You no longer feel connected to consensus reality. You find yourself seeking ways to achieveinner peace and simplicity of life. You feel that you live in and sense two different realities simultaneously: The 3-dimensional material reality your old self used to occupy, and a new reality of higher vibration and spirituality that you find yourself shifting into.

Feel good if you can relate to the symptoms of personal transformation! There are profound changes taking place on our planet these days. Mother Earth's vibrations grow stronger everyday, and they are reaching higher and higher elevations. As that happens, you will experience profound changes within yourself. Inner change is happening for many of us. And a greater sense of the spiritual is awakening in the mass consciousness of humanity.




1. Just be yourself.

2. Realize that you’re fighting against a world of your own creation.

3. Know that your happiness is independent of how much stuff you own.

4. Change yourself instead of expecting the world to change to meet your expectations.

5. Define happiness as peace, tranquility, and serenity.

6. Remember there’s no such thing as the perfect life.

7. Your happiness is equal to your ability to love.

8. Stop thinking of what you don’t want.

9. Just for today, pretend that you have amnesia about anything that stresses or worries you.

10. Truly believe that everything you go through has a higher purpose.

11. Don’t turn small problems into big ones.

12. Stop comparing yourself to others.

13. Remember that envy is the art of counting someone else’s blessings instead of your own.

14. Set limits with people who drain your energy.

15. Surround yourself with positive, mood-elevating people.

16. Nothing has to happen outside of yourself for you to be happy.

17. When you change your thoughts you literally rewire your brain; start rewiring your brain for happiness.

18. Be very careful of where you choose to place your attention.

19. Don’t criticize anyone—including yourself—for 24 hours.

20. Try turning the stories that you tell yourself about what happens in your life into comedies instead of dramas.

21. Make a list of the things you need in order to be truly happy; make it a really short list. (Here’s an example: Having good health, sufficient money for food and shelter, no debts, loving friends and family, and something meaningful to work toward).

22. Keep a happiness journal in which you write down only the things that make you happy.

23. Set SMART goals and then create a paint-by-numbers plan to achieve them.

24. Spend a few minutes each day thinking about things that make you happy.

25. Find your passion.

26. Savor the little things.

27. Schedule short, frequent vacations; studies show that the anticipation leading up to the time off is one of the best parts about taking a vacation.

28. Engage in humility; you can only carry the burden of pride and of having a huge ego for so long before you crack under the pressure of upholding your incredible significance.

[madfranks]

General, you really ought to read Mises' book, Human Action. In it, he develops his theory of Praxeology, which is the study of human action and why humans act. It's true, the reasons humans act at all is to attempt to create a set of circumstances that are favorable to what they would be without that action. Every little action we make, no matter how small, fits in this theory. Why do you get up off the comfortable couch to go get the mail outside? Because the effort of getting up off the couch and having the mail in your hands is preferable to enjoying the comfort of the couch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praxeology


Von Mises writes that action axiom is the basis of all praxeology, and it is the basic proposition that all specimens of the species homo sapiens, the homo agens, purposefully utilize means over a period of time in order to achieve desired ends. In his magnum opus Human Action, Von Mises defined “action” in the sense of the action axiom by elucidating:

Human action is purposeful behavior. Or we may say: Action is will put into operation and transformed into an agency, is aiming at ends and goals, is the ego's meaningful response to stimuli and to the conditions of its environment, is a person's conscious adjustment to the state of the universe that determines his life. Such paraphrases may clarify the definition given and prevent possible misinterpretations. But the definition itself is adequate and does not need complement of commentary.
http://mises.org/Books/humanaction.pdf

[mamboni]

GoD is spot on. In a free society, productive individuals will decide to pool a portion of their "self interest" from time to time, as dictated by circumstance and necessity. Pooling of individual efforts may constitute the building of a canal, the construction of a fortification, the founding of a bank or hospital, or the establishment of a government. The point is that these all constitute acts of self-interest on the part of a group of "consenting" individuals. And from this a great and productive society is born and grows into a great nation.

But the collectivist communist-marxist Obamaphiles in Washington want to dictate all community projects and initiative and compel the "non-consenting" individuals to contribute a portion of their "self-interest." It is ass-backwards, unnatural and will predictably fail.

[Old Herb Lady]

GoD is spot on. In a free society, productive individuals will decide to pool a portion of their "self interest" from time to time, as dictated by circumstance and necessity. Pooling of individual efforts may constitute the building of a canal, the construction of a fortification, the founding of a bank or hospital, or the establishment of a government. The point is that these all constitute acts of self-interest on the part of a group of "consenting" individuals. And from this a great and productive society is born and grows into a great nation.

But the collectivist communist-marxist Obamaphiles in Washington want to dictate all community projects and initiative and compel the "non-consenting" individuals to contribute a portion of their "self-interest." It is ass-backwards, unnatural and will predictably fail.

Great idea , blame Washington, Obama & the Jews ! Send me more meds too please.
People are responsible for their own feelings not those trying to set us up for failure.

[undgrd]

So...let me ask a question. It's been proven that the "feel good" feeling people get from food, sex, whatever is dopamine being released into their brain. What if you get that "feel good" feeling by helping others? What if I ONLY help others to get that feeling?

[mamboni]

Great idea , blame Washington, Obama & the Jews ! Send me more meds too please.
People are responsible for their own feelings not those trying to set us up for failure.

Yes, I do blamne them dammit!!! A nation's strength emanates from and by consent of the people. If you say that Obama, Washington and the likes of AIPAC and the Jew-owned MSM are not destructive and subversive to the people and the major cause of division, dysharmony and general discontent in society today, then you are blind! People cannot live happily and be productive when they are harrassed at every turn by government with it's endless taxes, laws, fines, mandates, directives and on and on and on. Fuck it already! I've had my fill of it and then some! You haven't?

[DMac]

So...let me ask a question. It's been proven that the "feel good" feeling people get from food, sex, whatever is dopamine being released into their brain. What if you get that "feel good" feeling by helping others? What if I ONLY help others to get that feeling?

You should read Marcel Mauss (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/370263/Marcel-Mauss), or Jacques Derrida (http://www.iep.utm.edu/derrida/). You're touching on an important philosophical dilemma:

The paradox of the gift.

Here is a sample essay discussing this notion:

Indebtedness and the Possibility of the Gift (http://wishtank.org/indebtedness-and-the-possibility-of-the-gift/)

(snip)


The paradox of the gift

Although approaching it from different backgrounds, both Marcel Mauss and Jacques Derrida promote readings of the gift as paradox. In the Introduction to his seminal essay The Gift, Mauss remarks, “We intend in this book to isolate one important set of phenomena: namely, prestations which are in theory voluntary, disinterested and spontaneous, but are in fact obligatory and interested. The form usually taken is that of the gift generously offered; but the accompanying behavior is formal pretense and social deception, while the transaction itself is based on obligation and economic self-interest.”

Here Mauss identifies the contradicting motivations which underlie the act of giving, intending to undermine the ordinary notion of a gift as something generously given. The gift is not freely given, but, more accurately, we have no choice but to give. In another essay, Mauss identifies this paradox in terms of the two German translations of “gift” — “present” and “poison.” However, I believe that it is only with Derrida’s analysis of Mauss that the paradox of the gift becomes wholly intelligible.

Derrida writes: “For there to be a gift, there must be no reciprocity, return, exchange, countergift, or debt. If the other gives me back or owes me or has to give me back what I give him or her, there will not have been a gift. — This is all too obvious if the other, the donee, gives me back immediately the same thing.”

Derrida argues that the internal logic of the gift necessitates a one-way relation between the giver and the receiver. The gift must be given with no strings attached. In order to receive a gift, one must not receive with it a lack, an indebtedness to the other, for otherwise the gift is not only a present, but the poison of a forced and coerced obligation under the passive aggressive guise of a generous offering. However, if gift-giving is always entangled within systems of exchange, it is thus impossible to give or receive a gift without increasing the power of the giver. Derrida puts it most succinctly when he claims, “The conditions of the possibility of the gift (that some ‘one’ gives some ‘thing’ to some one other) designate simultaneously the conditions of the impossibility of the gift.” And already we could translate this in other terms: “these conditions of possibility define or produce the annulment, the annihilation, the destruction of the gift.”

Therefore, to give or receive a gift is at the same time to annul the gift’s givenness.

[Santa]

Objectivism is Materialism.



"Material Girl"

Some boys kiss me, some boys hug me
I think they're O.K.
If they don't give me proper credit
I just walk away

They can beg and they can plead
But they can't see the light, that's right
'Cause the boy with the cold hard cash
Is always Mister Right, 'cause we are

[Chorus:]

Living in a material world
And I am a material girl
You know that we are living in a material world
And I am a material girl

Some boys romance, some boys slow dance
That's all right with me
If they can't raise my interest then I
Have to let them be

Some boys try and some boys lie but
I don't let them play
Only boys who save their pennies
Make my rainy day, 'cause they are

[chorus]

Living in a material world (material)
Living in a material world
[repeat]

Boys may come and boys may go
And that's all right you see
Experience has made me rich
And now they're after me, 'cause everybody's

[chorus]

A material, a material, a material, a material world

Living in a material world (material)
Living in a material world
[repeat and fade]

[Old Herb Lady]

Yes, I do blamne them dammit!!! A nation's strength emanates from and by consent of the people. If you say that Obama, Washington and the likes of AIPAC and the Jew-owned MSM are not destructive and subversive to the people and the major cause of division, dysharmony and general discontent in society today, then you are blind! People cannot live happily and be productive when they are harrassed at every turn by government with it's endless taxes, laws, fines, mandates, directives and on and on and on. Fuck it already! I've had my fill of it and then some! You haven't?

Thanks for askin'. Yes, I've had enough of this and if you think I'm blind then I think you're blind. We're on 2 different wave lengths.

When you get to a point where you know sooo much and you pretty feel like you know wayy too much and you feel helpless & hopeless
it's still gonna get worse even as bad as it is now. So you can either stick your head between your legs and kiss your sorry ass good-bye
or you can try to be a guiding light for yourself & your family while watching--no while being part of--- the real life horror film unfolding.

If your not mentally, emotionally & spiritually prepared STARTING NOW you will be nothing when the EXTREME SHTF comes.
Strenghten yourself now.
No amount of me or you worrying about it is going to change the situation.
The only thing you can change is the way you are going to let it affect you, kill you each day a little more at a time
until you can't take it anymore.

People are gonna need to be prepared with PREPS and BRAINS and the RIGHT SPIRIT to get through this fucking shit !

[Santa]

Rational self interest, as I understand it is predicated on the belief that material existence is the only reality.

[midnight rambler]

Rational self interest, as I understand it is predicated on the belief that material existence is the only reality.

"Reality is an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." --A. Einstein

[undgrd]

Rational self interest, as I understand it is predicated on the belief that material existence is the only reality.

In my experience, people doing anything for anyone expect something in return.
End of Story.

[Golden]

I love you too Ponce.


No matter how many time I have told you NOT to do it, you keep on doing it, and to me that means that you are only helping the Zionist from the state of Israel.

As you might have noticed I wrote "Zionist" and the "state" of Israel.......... you people keep on saying Jews and Israel you are only working yourselves into their hands.

Learn to say ZIONIST and THE STATE OF ISRAEL.....that way people will asked you about the difference between Jews and Zionist and also the difference between the state of Israel and that of Israel by itself.

The other day while playing poker I used the word "Palestine" and this guy at the table asked me "Where is palestine at, is that a country".....and I asked him "Do you know where the state of Israel is at?" and he said "Of course I do" and I then told him......"Well, the state of Israel is in Palestine and that's why Israel is a state and not a country", a couple of guys at the table aplauded me.

Untill I see some "improvement" in your way of thinking, and writing, I won't be saying anything else on this board because I don't want to be part of those helping the Zionist become part of the Semite Jews.

PS: I still love you all but with me is a matter of principal.

PS PS: I do monitor the board once a day to see what is going on.
http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?55164-Why-I-no-longer-post-here..........

[undgrd]

Rational self interest, as I understand it is predicated on the belief that material existence is the only reality.



Do not confuse altruism with kindness, good will or respect for the rights of others. These are not primaries, but consequences, which, in fact, altruism makes impossible. The irreducible primary of altruism, the basic absolute is self-sacrifice–which means self-immolation, self-abnegation, self-denial self-destruction–which means the self as a standard of evil, the selfless as a standard of the good. Do not hide behind such superficialities as whether you should or should not give a dime to a beggar. This is not the issue. The issue is whether you do or do not have the right to exist without giving him that dime. The issue is whether you must keep buying your life, dime by dime, from any beggar who might choose to approach you. The issue is whether the need of others is the first mortgage on your life and the moral purpose of your existence. The issue is whether man is to be regarded as a sacrificial animal. Any man of self-esteem will answer: No. Altruism says: Yes."

___

[Santa]

___

Yeah, straight from the mouth of a Talmudic Babylonian Atheist whore of a Rothschild. ::)

[Old Herb Lady]

In my experience, people doing anything for anyone expect something in return.
End of Story.

This is NOT TRUE !

" people doing anything for anyone expect something in return. "........if they are not at peace in their heart, are egotistical , are selfish, greedy
have not respected their spirit within, only think about me me me me me me me . Release these negativities and when you do something for someone
you feel glad that you could help them and then YOU INSTANTLY MOVE ON & FORGET ABOUT IT !!!!

People think they're Oh SO wonderful cuz they do something nice for someone if they still have that negativity in them.
Once you get past yourself & heal yourself then you can help others in the correct light without feeling
that oh so thou great me 'self gratification" thing !!

People think wayyyy too much of themselves & need to humble down some .

[zap]

When I gave money to some folks down on their luck last month, the thoughts that ran through my mind were, " poor bastards, Heck I got a little extra cash maybe it will do them some good" thats about all that went through my mind, nothing more nothing less, LOL I am pretty simple.;)

[undgrd]

Yeah, straight from the mouth of a Talmudic Babylonian Atheist whore of a Rothschild. ::)

I must be confused. She coined Rational self interest. I thought that's where you wanted to go.

[undgrd]

This is NOT TRUE !

" people doing anything for anyone expect something in return. "........if they are not at peace in their heart, are egotistical , are selfish, greedy
have not respected their spirit within, only think about me me me me me me me . Release these negativities and when you do something for someone
you feel glad that you could help them and then YOU INSTANTLY MOVE ON & FORGET ABOUT IT !!!!

People think they're Oh SO wonderful cuz they do something nice for someone if they still have that negativity in them.
Once you get past yourself & heal yourself then you can help others in the correct light without feeling
that oh so thou great me 'self gratification" thing !!

People think wayyyy too much of themselves & need to humble down some .

Now you're dictating to me what my own experience has been? Pretty full of yourself.

[undgrd]

When I gave money to some folks down on their luck last month, the thoughts that ran through my mind were, " poor bastards, Heck I got a little extra cash maybe it will do them some good" thats about all that went through my mind, nothing more nothing less, LOL I am pretty simple.;)

So doing that didn't make you feel good? You didn't get any joy from helping them? It's ok if you did.

[Old Herb Lady]

So now you're dictating to me what my own experience has been? Pretty full of yourself.

I "elaborated" on your experiences for ya. Ha ! And trying to tell you that the "end of story" wasn't really the end of the story.

[undgrd]

I "elaborated" on your experiences for ya. Ha ! And trying to tell you that the "end of story" wasn't really the end of the story.

Since the story was based on my experience, it is the end of the story.

[zap]

Sorry I didn't get all giddy about it, there was no joy, almost thought I shouldn't, I should keep all my money and not give nothing to nobody cause I worked my ass off for that money, nobody ever gave me nothing, But then I thought aww hell its just money and I can make some more , I think at that moment it was the right thing to do but I didn't feel happy about it. :)

[Golden]

"Power takes over a holy person's life. We know we are part of Sioux history, and that when we have become hollow bones there is no limit to what the Higher Powers can do in and through us in spiritual things. Even our physical bodies cannot contain us, because our spirits can step out of our bodies and spirit-travel. We dream and vision and have fantastic thoughts. This begins while we are still children. Because of it, we are always ready for Wakan-tanka and the Helpers to take us places and show us things that others, because of having closed minds, may never see. The Power that we receive is for curing, healing, prophesying, solving problems, and finding lost people or objects. It is also for spreading love, transforming and assuring peace and fertility. It is not to give us power over others because the source of power is not ourselves..."

Fools Crow

[undgrd]

Sorry I didn't get all giddy about it, there was no joy, almost thought I shouldn't, I should keep all my money and not give nothing to nobody cause I worked my ass off for that money, nobody ever gave me nothing, But then I thought aww hell its just money and I can make some more , I think at that moment it was the right thing to do but I didn't feel happy about it.

In my mind, not feeling good about helping someone less fortunate is odd.

I'm sure they appreciated it!

[Old Herb Lady]

Since the story was based on my experience, it is the end of the story.

based on your mind's eyes. Good Luck !!

[Sparky]

I think the General's original premise is correct. This has been a fairly recent revelation of mine. And self-interest is had two drivers: 1) material gain, and 2) feeling good about oneself.

The obvious philosophical follow-up question is: Is this a bad thing?

I think it's a bad thing if your personal agenda shows no sensitivity to the agenda of others. You can maintain a self-interest while still making an effort to "do the right thing". It's very easy to get away with unscrupulous action that would advance our own self interests, but most of us try to avoid that. Is it only because we would not feel good about ourselves, which brings us right back to self-interest? This also plays into Spectrism's point about doing things for spiritual reasons rather than self-interest, and sirgonzo's excellent follow-up as to whether that, too, is in our own self interest because we want to achieve something (Heaven, avoid Hell) or simply feel good about ourselves.

[undgrd]

Sparky, I'd thank you twice if I could.

[Golden]

Sparky, I'd thank you twice if I could.

If? You just did! 8

[Santa]

Since Book isn't here for some reason, I'll be the sacred cow tipper for a moment. ;D

Rothschilds... Family of Talmudic Babylonian Atheists
Von Mises... Talmudic Babylonian Atheist
Rand... Talmudic Babylonian Atheist
Hayek... Talmudic Babylonian Atheist
Milton Friedman... Talmudic Babylonian Atheist
Rothbard... ditto

Anton Levey... Founder of Satanism, admirer and proselytizer of Objectivism and self interest and a major asset for the CIA, a non Constitutional Talmudic Babylonian organization originally populated by assets brought over from Germany after ww2, through a secret program called "Paperclip." A Zionist front.

Satan... The god of the world. The god of materialism. The demiurge of personal material selfish gain. That which traps the soul and binds it to the material plane, so that ones essential "being" or soul can no longer experience ones connectedness to Spirit, to God and Eternal Life, because this demiurge, or urge believes that "it" has been forever cut off from God's grace.

The Self. A non corporeal idea of isolation or "otherness" from life "out there." Where one's being thinks it is utterly alone. A thought of victimization and a consequent sensation of abandonment. The feeling that "it" has somehow forever been cut off from Gods grace.

This is just an opinion, of course, but the creation of a series of social systems designed to encourage the idea of Self over all else results in the "self" destruction of civilization.

Oh, and at root, civilization means Gods people.

[mamboni]

Since Book isn't here for some reason, I'll be the sacred cow tipper for a moment. ;D

Rothschilds... Family of Talmudic Babylonian Atheists
Von Mises... Talmudic Babylonian Atheist
Rand... Talmudic Babylonian Atheist
Hayek... Talmudic Babylonian Atheist
Milton Friedman... Talmudic Babylonian Atheist
Rothbard... ditto

Anton Levey... Founder of Satanism, admirer and proselytizer of Objectivism and self interest and a major asset for the CIA, a non Constitutional Talmudic Babylonian organization originally populated by assets brought over from Germany after ww2, through a secret program called "Paperclip." A Zionist front.

Satan... The god of the world. The god of materialism. The demiurge of personal material selfish gain. That which traps the soul and binds it to the material plane, so that ones essential "being" or soul can no longer experience ones connectedness to Spirit, to God and Eternal Life, because this demiurge, or urge believes that "it" has been forever cut off from God's grace.

The Self. A non corporeal idea of isolation or "otherness" from life "out there." Where one's being thinks it is utterly alone. A thought of victimization and a consequent sensation of abandonment. The feeling that "it" has somehow forever been cut off from Gods grace.

This is just an opinion, of course, but the creation of a series of social systems designed to encourage the idea of Self over all else results in the "self" destruction of civilization.

Oh, and at root, civilization means Gods people.

Thank you SANTA, or is that SATAN?

[Santa]

Thank you SANTA, or is that SATAN?

We've had this conversation before, Dr. Mamboni. Santa means Saint in Latin derived Spanglish. ;D

[midnight rambler]

Since Book isn't here for some reason, I'll be the sacred cow tipper for a moment. ;D

Rothschilds... Family of Talmudic Babylonian Atheists
Von Mises... Talmudic Babylonian Atheist
Rand... Talmudic Babylonian Atheist
Hayek... Talmudic Babylonian Atheist
Milton Friedman... Talmudic Babylonian Atheist
Rothbard... ditto

Anton Levey... Founder of Satanism, admirer and proselytizer of Objectivism and self interest and a major asset for the CIA, a non Constitutional Talmudic Babylonian organization originally populated by assets brought over from Germany after ww2, through a secret program called "Paperclip." A Zionist front.

Satan... The god of the world. The god of materialism. The demiurge of personal material selfish gain. That which traps the soul and binds it to the material plane, so that ones essential "being" or soul can no longer experience ones connectedness to Spirit, to God and Eternal Life, because this demiurge, or urge believes that "it" has been forever cut off from God's grace.

The Self. A non corporeal idea of isolation or "otherness" from life "out there." Where one's being thinks it is utterly alone. A thought of victimization and a consequent sensation of abandonment. The feeling that "it" has somehow forever been cut off from Gods grace.

This is just an opinion, of course, but the creation of a series of social systems designed to encourage the idea of Self over all else results in the "self" destruction of civilization.

Oh, and at root, civilization means Gods people.

Fascinating post for someone who has a handle which is an anagram of Satan. lol

[mamboni]

We've had this conversation before, Dr. Mamboni. Santa means Saint in Latin derived Spanglish. ;D


Thank you, oh worshipful master!!!;D

[madfranks]

When I gave money to some folks down on their luck last month, the thoughts that ran through my mind were, " poor bastards, Heck I got a little extra cash maybe it will do them some good" thats about all that went through my mind, nothing more nothing less, LOL I am pretty simple.;)

Usually that's how it goes with me also.


In my experience, people doing anything for anyone expect something in return.
End of Story.

Now, if I decided to go really deep into a self-analysis of the situation, it would be like this. I was trying to teach my kids a lesson in generosity and giving to those less fortunate than themselves. So by giving to a beggar and calling attention to it to teach my kids a lesson, then yes, we did get something out of it. But, I may have given in this instance without the kids present, as I have many times before, I don't know.

[Gaillo]

madfranks... sometimes it's no more complicated than just "doing the right thing".

That is also an expression of rational self-interest... WHY would a person want to "do the right thing"? Because they have determined that based on THEIR OWN value system, certain things are good and certain things are evil. To do evil things makes you an evil person, and to do good things makes you a good person. Almost NOBODY wants to be an evil person, so they try to do good things instead of evil things. It all comes back to the kind of person you want to be - again, SELF interest, even if we aren't always consciously aware of the mechanism.

[undgrd]

Now, if I decided to go really deep into a self-analysis of the situation, it would be like this. I was trying to teach my kids a lesson in generosity and giving to those less fortunate than themselves. So by giving to a beggar and calling attention to it to teach my kids a lesson, then yes, we did get something out of it. But, I may have given in this instance without the kids present, as I have many times before, I don't know.

My son is too young for this kind of lesson. It's a good and important one to pass on.

I too have given to the needy getting nothing physical in return. Made me feel good to help out though.

[Hatha Sunahara]

When you do some good in the world, it is in your self interest.

A higher consciousness would recognize that karma applies in all things. Whatever you do will come back to you--regardless of the fact that there is no apparent accounting system for good deeds. There is a far better accounting system for bad deeds.

Karma even applies to corrupt political systems. If you do something in your own self interest that unjustly harms other people, it becomes part of their self interest to seek justice. That's why corrupt regimes (and people) inevitably turn to dust.

Yes, GoD, you've touched on a truly profound concept.


Hatha

[Golden]

Jesus loves the little children...

Emerald Tablets Dark Brothers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUe55SlsefA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUe55SlsefA
Uploaded by bdona4556 on Feb 25, 2012

"Long, ago in the days of the first man, warfare began between darkness and light. Man, then as now, were filled with both darkness and light; and while in some darkness held sway, in others light filled the soul.
Long ages ago, The SUNS of the Morning descending, found the world filled with night, there in that past, began the struggle, between darkness and light.
BROTHERS OF DARKNESS, through the ages, antagonized the children of men. They walked in secret and hidden, found, yet not found by the children of man.
Silently, secretly they use their power, enslaving and binding the soul of men. Unseen they come, and unseen they go. Man, in his ignorance calls them from below.

Dark is the way of the DARK BROTHERS. Travelling over the Earth they walk through men's dreams. Into man's mind-space reach the DARK BROTHERS.

Listen to my warning: Free yourself from the bondage of night. Do not surrender your soul to the BROTHERS OF DARKNESS. Keep your face ever turned towards the Light."

[Book]

http://dixoncenter.com/clients/220/images/.resized/.resized_500x366_j0430925.jpg

The OP premise relates to inter-personal relationships. No need to go off on cherished religious, political, or metaphysical tangents.

:)

[Horn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdfziO85n9k

[Santa]

http://dixoncenter.com/clients/220/images/.resized/.resized_500x366_j0430925.jpg

The OP premise relates to inter-personal relationships. No need to go off on cherished religious, political, or metaphysical tangents.

:)

You're right. My bad... :)

[Golden]

The OP premise relates to inter-personal relationships. No need to go off on cherished religious, political, or metaphysical tangents.

:)

In tangent writes a metaphysical, political, and cherished religious Book! Where do you think you're going?

[Spectrism]

GoD, you nailed it!
Everything you wrote will/could help to ensure my continued success and the success of my family and friends.

Spec, if you ever have an "original" thought that doesn't first originate from the "good book", please let us know. Refusing to acknowledge that acts that satisfy self interest can benefit others and can be a good thing, is foolish.

The "good book" is a partial compilation of the words of the Creator. Nothing that was made originated outside that realm.

Your last line is a disjointed, unfitting slander. It does not fit the discussion or any implications made by me or anyone else.




So...let me ask a question. It's been proven that the "feel good" feeling people get from food, sex, whatever is dopamine being released into their brain. What if you get that "feel good" feeling by helping others? What if I ONLY help others to get that feeling?

It is a fuller world when one can experience things besides the chemical interactions of the brain. One shutting off spiritual realities is a willingly blindfolded beggar who thinks the crumbs of stale bread, the chill of a night wind, and the sounds of hooves and wheels on the street are the sum total of life's experiences.



In my experience, people doing anything for anyone expect something in return.
End of Story.

You might listen to those who have more experience than you.


The God who owns this universe designed it with cause and effect, disorganization of the elements and organization of life, chaos of complex interactions and order in cycles. What He created good, He then cursed to be difficult as a fitting habitation for a creature who rejected the purity of the Creator. The fallen nature of man cannot see the perfection and self-giving of God.... and worse, cannot easily emulate that nature of God without asking "what's in it for me?" A pauper cannot give riches to another.

God has established principles and laws. He made things orderly where there was no order. It is not an aberration of His design to affect rewards to prosper causal actions. Nature still retains many beauties of its original creation but it is not nature which rules supreme. So, when one feels good for doing good, this is not an attribute of fallen nature, but of original creation- that was good. The evil one seeks to pervert this relationship by making temporary good feelings or effects for evil or selfish actions. And, doing well for yourself is not always an evil action.

Doing what pleases another can be deemed selfish for the rewards you anticipate. Yes, that is a perverted and valid viewpoint. It tells more about the master of the viewer than it does about the reality of life. Every one here has a master. You cannot please two masters. You will please one and deny any other. You have choice. And if you have choice, you are not just a mass of chemicals responding to stimulus in a required manner like water seeking the lowest gap into which it can fall. Some of you like to pretend you are just brute beasts with no choice and therefore no accountability for your choices. If you do not wake up now, you will face a harsh reality later.

[Horn]

All this angst originates from singular organ overuse.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oA0kXDMKiLg

[Libertytree]

Cain't ya just do a good thing for the hell of it? just because it's the right thing to do? It's not that philosophical and esoteric, ya spread the good when ya can, it might even be something stupid that no one will ever notice, you just did the right thing because it was there to do.

Yes, I do plenty out of self interest but I never let my self interest over-ride the right thing that needs doing.

Great flow of thought General, hat tip.

[Golden]

All this angst originates from singular organ overuse.

Horny horn. haha HONK!

[Silver Rocket Bitches!]

I agree. Self interest is the primary driving goal in the individual. That self interest can be positive or negative. That largely depends on the ethos of the society.

Think Maslow's hierarchy of needs. You are acting out of self interest at every level from survival up to self actualization. If the whole of society is acting of interest at a survival level, virtue and order quickly break down.

If you look at the ethos of our western society, it appears to be dominated by a self absorbed hedonistic type of self interest which is a recipe for disaster. Eventually the reset button will be pushed and a new ethos will enter and the cycle repeats.

Great insight in this thread. It should be moved to the philosophy forum ;D

[Sparky]

Cain't ya just do a good thing for the hell of it? just because it's the right thing to do? It's not that philosophical and esoteric, ya spread the good when ya can, it might even be something stupid that no one will ever notice, you just did the right thing because it was there to do.

Yes, I do plenty out of self interest but I never let my self interest over-ride the right thing that needs doing.

Great flow of thought General, hat tip.

I think that's why this thread is philosophical, LT; maybe you can't just do it for the hell of it. Even if nobody notices your small deed, you notice it and feel good about it.

[Spectrism]

I think that's why this thread is philosophical, LT; maybe you can't just do it for the hell of it. Even if nobody notices your small deed, you notice it and feel good about it.

Putting a view of selfish motivations on everything because there are cause & effect relationships in most things we see misses a realm beyond selfishness. The underlying assumption of many in this thread is that there is nothing outside of selfish motivation. Those holding that identify their fallen nature and clearly display what the bible says about the unregenerate man.

[undgrd]

Putting a view of selfish motivations on everything because there are cause & effect relationships in most things we see misses a realm beyond selfishness. The underlying assumption of many in this thread is that there is nothing outside of selfish motivation. Those holding that identify their fallen nature and clearly display what the bible says about the unregenerate man.

The point I'm trying to get across is this. People do things for themselves/others for a great many reasons. Proclaiming something to be self serving just because one gets something in return, is non sense.

I can admit that sometimes I do things for others and it makes me feel good. I like to feel good.
Can you admit that everything you do isn't just for the glory of God?

Would you care to respond to this question from sirgonzo420?
http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?59291-From-my-quot-experience-quot-every-action-is-driven-by-self-interest&p=521051&viewfull=1#post521051

[Santa]

An example of altruism......................from a dog.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYZQbZ1jK58

[Spectrism]

Would you feel the same about your religion if you weren't afraid of going to Hell, or trying to obtain entry to Heaven?

Sounds like "self interest" falls in there somewhere...

First, I don't have a religion. Are you married? Do you have a religion with your wife? No... you have a relationship. In that relationship, are you motivated in everything you do because you are afraid she will hit you with a frying pan? No... hopefully you care about her desires and have many in common.

In my relationship with the Creator, I am promised things that assure any fears of hell are needless for me. I got to this place by being confronted by God with Truth and I chose to love Truth. Noy only did He show me truths about myself but He gave me an escape from the consequences.



The point I'm trying to get across is this. People do things for themselves/others for a great many reasons. Proclaiming something to be self serving just because one gets something in return, is non sense.

I can admit that sometimes I do things for others and it makes me feel good. I like to feel good.
Can you admit that everything you do isn't just for the glory of God?

Would you care to respond to this question from sirgonzo420?
http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?59291-From-my-quot-experience-quot-every-action-is-driven-by-self-interest&p=521051&viewfull=1#post521051

The spirit who speaks through you shall not be respected.

[sirgonzo420]

First, I don't have a religion. Are you married? Do you have a religion with your wife? No... you have a relationship. In that relationship, are you motivated in everything you do because you are afraid she will hit you with a frying pan? No... hopefully you care about her desires and have many in common.

In my relationship with the Creator, I am promised things that assure any fears of hell are needless for me. I got to this place by being confronted by God with Truth and I chose to love Truth. Noy only did He show me truths about myself but He gave me an escape from the consequences.




The spirit who speaks through you shall not be respected.

I hear you spectrism.

I get your point, but still, your relationship with the Creator is in your interest, no? I'm not calling you selfish or anything like that, just noting that your relationship with the Creator is in your interest.

[Awoke]

The only thing I would like to say in this thread is, you can't be a babylonian talmudist and also be an atheist.

[Santa]

Adam Smith argued that if individuals had sufficient
common interest in their group's good, they would combine to suppress the activities of members acting contrary to the group's welfare. Altruism is a natural phenomena that exists in all living groups. Even bacteria exhibit it in that some will expend themselves(die) to help
feed others in a colony.

I suppose it could be argued that if dying for others makes you feel "good" even for a brief moment as your brain begins to shut down, then it isn't really altruism at all, it's self interest. ::)

[Santa]

The only thing I would like to say in this thread is, you can't be a babylonian talmudist and also be an atheist.
I disagree, but am curious. Please elaborate.

[Old Herb Lady]

The point I'm trying to get across is this. People do things for themselves/others for a great many reasons. Proclaiming something to be self serving just because one gets something in return, is non sense.

I can admit that sometimes I do things for others and it makes me feel good. I like to feel good.
Can you admit that everything you do isn't just for the glory of God?

Would you care to respond to this question from sirgonzo420?
http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?59291-From-my-quot-experience-quot-every-action-is-driven-by-self-interest&p=521051&viewfull=1#post521051


I wasn't gonna bring God into this this conversation but I cannot stop myself now. Undgrd, when you do something nice for somebody and then you
feel good about it, IT IS CALLED A BLESSING !! You blessed somebody else and now you get to have a blessing bestowed upon you.
It's supposed to be like that !!! When you do it out of a big ego it's NOT the same. Not even remotely close.
If you don't believe in God, that's your biz, but when you do acknowledge Him, respect Him, Honor him, you honor yourself and your blessings (LOVE) in your heart are amplified a million times stronger because you are connected/plugged into a source of LOVE that is unimaginable to a non-believer.

You accept your blessing and don't foam at the mouth over your wonderful self and just move on !
You'll get directed by spirit when you're called to your next mission--no matter how big or how small !!
Give blessings & receive blessings !

Humble people will receive everything
Matthew 5:5 promises that humble people will receive everything. This means that this will happen in the future. In Romans chapter 8 he tells us that we are God’s family. We are heirs of God. And we are heirs with Christ. (An heir is a person who is going to receive a family’s possessions. God does not promise to give us possessions. But God promises to look after us.) What a wonderful future this is, but it is only for humble people. But God will *bless the humble person now, as well as in the future. Only the humble person can be happy in this world, because we have many difficulties in this world. Such a person knows what Paul knew (Philippians 4:11). Such a person is satisfied, whatever happens to him. He knows how to be content. He trusts and obeys the Lord. He does not love anything in this world too much, because he loves the Lord. Too many Christians today do not live like this. We worry too much about our possessions, our children, our house. It is the humble people who are really happy!

[Awoke]

Baylonian Talmudism is Luciferianism at the core, and you can't choose to believe/serve/worship the devil yet still claim to be atheist.

[sirgonzo420]

Baylonian Talmudism is Luciferianism at the core, and you can't choose to believe/serve/worship the devil yet still claim to be atheist.

Luciferians don't exactly worship "the devil" to my knowledge.

But in any case "atheists" are really "agnostics" with a chip on their shoulder.

[undgrd]

I wasn't gonna bring God into this this conversation but I cannot stop myself now. Undgrd, when you do something nice for somebody and then you
feel good about it, IT IS CALLED A BLESSING !! You blessed somebody else and now you get to have a blessing bestowed upon you.
It's supposed to be like that !!! When you do it out of a big ego it's NOT the same. Not even remotely close.
If you don't believe in God, that's your biz, but when you do acknowledge Him, respect Him, Honor him, you honor yourself and your blessings (LOVE) in your heart are amplified a million times stronger because you are connected/plugged into a source of LOVE that is unimaginable to a non-believer.

You accept your blessing and don't foam at the mouth over your wonderful self and just move on !
You'll get directed by spirit when you're called to your next mission--no matter how big or how small !!
Give blessings & receive blessings !

Humble people will receive everything
Matthew 5:5 promises that humble people will receive everything. This means that this will happen in the future. In Romans chapter 8 he tells us that we are God’s family. We are heirs of God. And we are heirs with Christ. (An heir is a person who is going to receive a family’s possessions. God does not promise to give us possessions. But God promises to look after us.) What a wonderful future this is, but it is only for humble people. But God will *bless the humble person now, as well as in the future. Only the humble person can be happy in this world, because we have many difficulties in this world. Such a person knows what Paul knew (Philippians 4:11). Such a person is satisfied, whatever happens to him. He knows how to be content. He trusts and obeys the Lord. He does not love anything in this world too much, because he loves the Lord. Too many Christians today do not live like this. We worry too much about our possessions, our children, our house. It is the humble people who are really happy!

First off, I feel I must apologize to you specifically. My words were harsher with you yesterday than they should have been.

It's not that I don't believe in a God. I won't go into the many reason for not trusting people or books of faith. I will say that I do feel there is something out there though. If it's a blessing or me just feeling good for doing the right thing, I don't know. Either way, I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing.

I think LT did a good job describing how I feel about it. You just know you're doing the right thing.

[Awoke]

Luciferians don't exactly worship "the devil" to my knowledge.


That varies from cultist to cultist. Pike, Hall and others are admitted worshippers of lucifer. Others may not "worship" him, but serve him by teaching people to reject the Lord. Either way, you acknowledge that there is a God and he is real.

If you believe in Lucifer, you are not an Atheist.

[Golden]

Name by The Goo Goo Dolls

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ice7NydF7RM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ice7NydF7RM

And even though the moment passed me by
I still can't turn away
Cuz all the dreams you never thought you'd lose
Got tossed along the way
And letters that you never meant to send
Got lost or thrown away

And now we're grown up orphans
And never knew their names
We don't belong to no one
That's a shame
But you could hide beside me
Maybe for a while
And I won't tell no one your name
And I won't tell 'em your name

And scars are souvenirs you never lose
The past is never far
Did you lose yourself somewhere out there?
Did you get to be a star?
And don't it make you sad to know that life
Is more than who we are

We grew up way too fast
And now there's nothing to believe
And reruns all become our history
A tired song keeps playing on a tired radio
And I won't tell no one your name
And I won't tell 'em your name
I won't tell em' your name
Oooh, oooh, oooh
I won't tell em' your name
Ow!

I think about you all the time
But I don't need the same
It's lonely where you are
Come back down
And I won't tell 'em your name

[Old Herb Lady]

First off, I feel I must apologize to you specifically. My words were harsher with you yesterday than they should have been.

It's not that I don't believe in a God. I won't go into the many reason for not trusting people or books of faith. I will say that I do feel there is something out there though. If it's a blessing or me just feeling good for doing the right thing, I don't know. Either way, I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing.

I think LT did a good job describing how I feel about it. You just know you're doing the right thing.

WOW ! Thank You ! See you just blessed me with your kind words !

Also....to me it is a HUGE--HUMONGOUS blessing when I get thanked (in person also) to do something that you think is like SO NOT A BIG DEAL
and a person looks at you in your eyes and says a heartfelt sincere Thank YOU, I mean that is just sooo meaningful to me.
Some people have asked me straight out, Why are you doing this for me ? I just say, No big deal. But to be appreciated is such an honor & blessing to me
and I do LOVE that feeling, of course, but would NEVER intentionally just do something for somebody to get that expected feeling . That would just cheapen it !
I don't want cheap ! God doesn't make junk. He gives a big heart to use it the way He wants us to.
Ok I'm done now. Thanks again Undgrd !


Have I done any good in the world today?
Have I helped anyone in need?
Have I cheered up the sad and made someone feel glad?
If not, I have failed indeed.
Has anyone’s burden been lighter today
Because I was willing to share?
Have the sick and the weary been helped on their way?
When they needed my help was I there?



Then wake up and do something more
Than dream of your mansion above.
Doing good is a pleasure, a joy beyond measure,
A blessing of duty and love.

[Santa]

Baylonian Talmudism is Luciferianism at the core, and you can't choose to believe/serve/worship the devil yet still claim to be atheist.

Why not? Satanists claim to be atheists. Their words, not mine. It's all about "self" interest and the rejection of God.

[Awoke]

That is the catch.

Rejection of God means you acknowledge He exists and is real, but choose to reject Him. Choosing apostacy doesn't make a person an atheist.

[Santa]

That varies from cultist to cultist.

So some Babylonian Talmudists are atheists and some aren't. Rand, and the others I listed were all "self" professed atheists.
Whether they secretly or ritualistically worshiped Lucifer I have no idea... probably not.


Rejection of God means you acknowledge He exists and is real, but choose to reject Him. Choosing apostacy doesn't make a person an atheist.

An atheist chooses to deny the existence of God.
To reject or to deny, that is the question....>:D

[Old Herb Lady]

ooooh wait..one more thing then I'll shut up for real....I promise......

For ANYONE that does not believe in God ---like I said it's YOUR biz NOT MINE-----
But please remember that when you do something good to help someone (no matter how BIG or how small)
HE is working through you & you just don't know it. He made you. Even if you don't believe it---
His SPIRIT comes through you FROM HIM and you don't know WHY you do it----you just do it cuz it's the right thing to do in your eyes---
but HE knows your heart---he made you---giving a blessing to others & receiving the blessing from God is just a natural spiritual blessing/gift
that can't really be explained & comprehended very well unless you read the Bible, but I'm just trying to word it in Old Herb Lady words.
Just cuz people don't believe in God doesn't mean that God doesn't believe in you !

Hope that makes sense toooo ?

[madfranks]

I agree. Self interest is the primary driving goal in the individual. That self interest can be positive or negative. That largely depends on the ethos of the society.

Think Maslow's hierarchy of needs. You are acting out of self interest at every level from survival up to self actualization. If the whole of society is acting of interest at a survival level, virtue and order quickly break down.

But cooperation is also a form of self interest. If I want a house but can't build it myself, but I have a group of people willing to help me build mine if I help them build theirs, we're all acting in our own self interest yet simultaneously acting in selfless ways by serving one another.

[Santa]

ooooh wait..one more thing then I'll shut up for real....I promise......



Please don't stop! My respect and appreciation of your ideas have shot way way up recently. Keep em coming.

[Awoke]

An atheist chooses to deny the existence of God.
To reject or to deny, that is the question....>:D

Precisely. There is a distinct difference.
That is why an atheist is an atheist, and a talmudist is a talmudist.

I am not trying to be arguementative. Just pointing out the distinction.

[Old Herb Lady]

Please don't stop! My respect and appreciation of your ideas have shot way way up recently. Keep em coming.

well golly gee, Thank You Mr Santa, no big deal of course, but I been talkinz the same way since my first days at GIM years ago, u must be late to da party.
not sure but I think all I do is repeat myself over & over re-telling the same stuff over & over & don't bring any new fresh insight at all ! Ha !

[vacuum]

Nothing to add except that you need to carefully consider the definitions of "self" and "interest" for this discussion to make sense. What are you, and what is not a part of you? Does different levels of "you-ness" have different interests? Do they conflict? Is there a hierarchy which is harmonious and one which is destructive?

It's not a trivial question which can be cleanly packaged, imo.

[Santa]

well golly gee, Thank You Mr Santa, no big deal of course, but I been talkinz the same way since my first days at GIM years ago, u must be late to da party.
not sure but I think all I do is repeat myself over & over re-telling the same stuff over & over & don't bring any new fresh insight at all ! Ha !

Oh. It must be that purty avatar you're using these days. Lol

[Sparky]

...
In my relationship with the Creator, I am promised things that assure any fears of hell are needless for me.
...


Exactly. You are promised things. That's in your self interest, no?

Why do we follow what the bible says? If you say because it is the truth, then why do we choose to follow the truth? Unless it is in our best interest, following the truth would be meaningless. This is not to say God shouldn't be glorified for providing it, but His sacrifice was for us, correct? We benefit by accepting His gift, right?

[Libertytree]

I've been mulling this thread all day long and I swear that all of the philosophical discourse while entertaining and thought provoking is good BUT.....doing good things for absolutely no reason except because its right is what it is...right. Maybe I'm a simple minded motherfucker? Probably... but I can't for the life of me figure out why there has to be something in it for 'you' personally that causes you to want to do it. I don't buy into the self interest aspect of the premise, at least not on a personal basis, I do agree that on a larger social scale that mutual, maximum gain is achieved when effort is given by all parties and that the benefit is self serving for the effort given and the greater results.

[Horn]

An example of altruism......................from a dog.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYZQbZ1jK58

Those Chilean dogs are from the moon, I'll tell ya...

[Horn]

This forum is just as much a project in self Dis-interest, as it is in self interest.

[Old Herb Lady]

I've been mulling this thread all day long and I swear that all of the philosophical discourse while entertaining and thought provoking is good BUT.....doing good things for absolutely no reason except because its right is what it is...right. Maybe I'm a simple minded motherfucker? Probably... but I can't for the life of me figure out why there has to be something in it for 'you' personally that causes you to want to do it. I don't buy into the self interest aspect of the premise, at least not on a personal basis, I do agree that on a larger social scale that mutual, maximum gain is achieved when effort is given by all parties and that the benefit is self serving for the effort given and the greater results.

A very wise beautiful, angelic old man taught me this long ago:

KISS~
Keep It Simple Stupid or
Keep It Simple Student
K. I. S. S.

[Sparky]

An example of altruism......................from a dog.
...

Animal behavior? Now that's a different story.

[solid]

BUT.....doing good things for absolutely no reason except because its right is what it is...right. Maybe I'm a simple minded motherfucker? Probably... .

This is the answer right there. (BTW, I know I'm a simple-minded motherf..)

We are talking about actions here. Not feelings afterwards...the feeling of doing something good afterwards does not always explain the actions we take.

I'll give a personal example. My brother and I went out to celebrate one evening. I was taking an EMT course, and passed a critical part of the course, and we were celebrating that. So, we are sitting outside at a restuarant. The waitress had just delivered our beers, and I was watching a woman crossing the street. Wham! Just like that, a car slams into her. Her head hits the windshield, she flies in the air, does a full flip 360, and comes crashing back down on the pavement. Within an instant this happened. A lot of folks rushed into action to help. I was the first person to reach her and I stabilized her head to prevent any further possible spinal injuries. My brother stopped traffic, so I didn't get hit. We directed other folks to get towels to support a broken leg....

Anyway, long story short. After the ambulance took this woman away to the hospital. We had time to think about what had happened. Yes, we all felt good that we sprung into action to help afterwards.

During the time though...the time of ACTION. Our personal selves were the last thing we were thinking of.

A lot of times, there just isn't time to think about anything other than what you are immediately doing, or even 'feel'. It's a time of action. Our actions were focused solely 100% on helping that woman. Not ourselves at all.

Afterwards, later...there's a time to think and reflect.