Now help me understand something about gas prices

[General of Darkness]

So in June/July of 2008 crude was around $150 a barrel and gas was about $4, now it's around $105 and gas is at $4, so why isn't anyone addressing this, this is obvious gauging by the oil companies.

Any thoughts?


http://66.70.86.64/ChartServer/ch.gaschart?Country=Canada&Crude=t&Period=72&Areas=USA%20Average,,&Unit=US%20$/G

[EE_]

What I heard is oil inventory is exceding demand and gasoline inventory is not meeting demand.
Maybe we are selling US gasoline to other countries that will pay more?
Same thing is happening with our food and water.
These high gasoline prices is about to kick up price inflation on everything!
BOHICA

[mick silver]

i always say is you dont like it now just wait . we are selling more fuel then we did last year at our store . i ask our sales guy why it running up and he told me it because of iran . so set back and wait till the show start over there and we all will get a taste of higher prices thats we have never seen before . the fat cats need there money too

[Down1]

Refinery driven I believe.
Even in places where they still operate it cost more to turn oil into gas thanks to moronic environmental laws.
http://www.newsmax.com/US/gas-prices-northeast-refineries/2012/03/05/id/431484

[Sparky]

It's usually attributable to refining. First, my understanding is that two major refineries are out. Second, the fraction of crude that is refined for gasoline (versus diesel or #2 heating oil) varies by season.

I've never bought into the gauging argument too much, unless there is collusion, which I think would be difficult because there are so many independent retailers. Like all free markets, why wouldn't competition simply undercut the gaugers, since it's a volume-driven business?

[Glass]

I think it's a combination of US supply and global demand. Iran stopped selling to europe so prices spiked. We had a bit of a jump down here. It would seem the US has a lot of underground oil but perhaps it's not refinable?

As to competition, this is still limitted by the number of refiners. The independents need to buy from somewhere and chances are that will be one of the big boys. So competition will be on margin only, not production efficiencies. That makes it susceptible to global competition for gas. As I said we are paying higher so we are competing.

[MNeagle]

Plus, we're a net exporter now! Don't recall if it's crude or gas, but that will affect things.

[Ares]

So in June/July of 2008 crude was around $150 a barrel and gas was about $4, now it's around $105 and gas is at $4, so why isn't anyone addressing this, this is obvious gauging by the oil companies.

Any thoughts?


http://66.70.86.64/ChartServer/ch.gaschart?Country=Canada&Crude=t&Period=72&Areas=USA%20Average,,&Unit=US%20$/G

Come on GoD everyone knows it was those pesky speculators. *sarcasm*

[dys]

I believe the reason is that the people at the top simply want the price to be high, and that is all.
Remember, all of the oil companies are government owned. What does that tell you?

dys

[LuckyStrike]

My understanding of it is that several of the refineries of oil have been shut down because they cannot process heavy sour crude. There is also an historically big price divergence between WTI and Brent, the later is in the mid 120's now.

Other factors which I never hear discussed are general tax/regulation increases which solely drive up the price of gas at the pump. Also when Brent came close to 150 in July of 08 it had a very sharp run up Brent was in the 70's in mid 08 until mid 09 so only a year, so for a lot of people and businesses in the grand scheme of things it was just a blip on the radar screen, but since mid-late 09 Brent has constantly been above 70 which is no longer a blip on the screen it is a way of life now and it's effects are priced in to everything we buy.

Looking at a 10 year oil chart, the price remains solidly in an upward channel with the credit crisis just being a black swan.

Ultimately there are a lot of people who want higher oil prices, the producing countries make more money, the oil companies love it because it enables them to extract oil from places which weren't feasible at $50 per barrel, and the government gets more tax money. But as a believer in peak oil I think this is just the start. 100 years ago we had 1 Billion people on the planet, we have 7 Billion now resources are going to be used at an accelerating rate. As Chris Martensen said in his presentation that he made at the GoldMoney conference in Spain, if you are 23 years old you have been alive when half of the oil ever pumped has been used. Startling.

[FreeEnergy]

I believe the reason is that the people at the top simply want the price to be high, and that is all.
Remember, all of the oil companies are government owned. What does that tell you? dys

Whatever is "traded" on the "free market" can be easily manipulated through paper manipulations. Especially if it has derivatives.


This is the most obvious conclusion, and I'm sure one can find a large number of supportive quotes from famous people about it.

[Hatha Sunahara]

The only thing I see in that chart that is of any significance is that the average price of gas in the US moves in tandem with changes in crude oil prices. It shows no demand statistics. so, an 'economist' will tell you only that gas prices follow the changes in the price of a barrel of crude oil. Well, duuuuuuhhhh!

Oil is a commodity. It is likely that there is far more of it on this planet than we are being led to believe. Nobody knows how much there is--but the quantity is astronomical. Economists are priests who make us believe that there is a shortage of everything, and that is why all prices go up. They are paid to make you look at everything but the truth. Like the media and the politicians, economists are paid by the people who wield power. They (the money power) have 'money power'. They have what Meyer Amschel Bauer Rpthschild thought he had if he could control the issuance of money. He could care less what the laws of the country were, the power of money is greater. When you have a couple of dozen global corporations controlling all the oil in the world they have major power too. They make the 'markets' do whatever they want. If they want oil prices high, they just raise them, and turn up the volume of the economists who tell us about some capacity shortage somewhere to account for the price rise. Who's gonna go out and check? The Media? The money power has them on the payroll, so they won't tell you anything. Your job is to just pay the higher price. What you are seeing is how the elite announce their policies. Maybe they want to prepare us for the coming collapse of the dollar. Maybe the oil companies need to have ever increasing revenues so they will be able to maintain their 'growth' so they can satisfy their shareholders--most of whom are the money power, or are controlled by the money power. All they have to do is control the money, oil and food, and nobody will ever rise up against them. Rising oil prices just makes us more dependent on them.

If you don't believe that, you might be happier believing what the economists tell you.


Hatha

[Sparky]

Hatha, I'm not so sure there is plenty of oil. One of the most staggering statistics in the entire economy is that the world consumes 84 million barrels of oil per day, which is 3.5 billion U.S. gallons per day.

For perspective, Niagara falls has a flow rate of 150,00 gallons per second. If all that water were oil, the Falls would have to flow for more than 6 hours just to cover the world's demand for one day. The daily volume blows my mind. And keep in mind, there's another billion Chinese people still trying to move up into the middle class and become consumers. Yikes.

And then there's the whole concept that the "easy" oil has already been retrieved, so it consumes more and more energy each day to pull each barrel. You can argue that the Peak Oil numbers are fuzzy, but I think the principal is correct. Even if there is a lot of oil left, I think it's going to get a lot more expensive, and not simply due to manipulation. It might be "ripe" for manipulation, but the underlying supply/demand fundamentals alone are enough to result in ever-escalating prices, even before you factor in decaying fiat value. I think its upside price will ultimately be more shocking that that of gold or silver, unless demand for it is decreased via some alternative.

I've only recently come to appreciate just how unique gasoline, oil, diesel, etc. are in how they can store so much energy in such a small volume. So there may be more available than what is being led to believe, but it's still going to end up being insufficient, whether it be in 10 years or 100 years. I think a turning point in civilization depends on whether/when mankind finds a suitable alternative before time runs out.

[dys]

Hatha, I'm not so sure there is plenty of oil. One of the most staggering statistics in the entire economy is that the world consumes 84 million barrels of oil per day, which is 3.5 billion U.S. gallons per day.

For perspective, Niagara falls has a flow rate of 150,00 gallons per second. If all that water were oil, the Falls would have to flow for more than 6 hours just to cover the world's demand for one day. The daily volume blows my mind. And keep in mind, there's another billion Chinese people still trying to move up into the middle class and become consumers. Yikes.

And then there's the whole concept that the "easy" oil has already been retrieved, so it consumes more and more energy each day to pull each barrel. You can argue that the Peak Oil numbers are fuzzy, but I think the principal is correct. Even if there is a lot of oil left, I think it's going to get a lot more expensive, and not simply due to manipulation. It might be "ripe" for manipulation, but the underlying supply/demand fundamentals alone are enough to result in ever-escalating prices, even before you factor in decaying fiat value. I think its upside price will ultimately be more shocking that that of gold or silver, unless demand for it is decreased via some alternative.

I've only recently come to appreciate just how unique gasoline, oil, diesel, etc. are in how they can store so much energy in such a small volume. So there may be more available than what is being led to believe, but it's still going to end up being insufficient, whether it be in 10 years or 100 years. I think a turning point in civilization depends on whether/when mankind finds a suitable alternative before time runs out.

Most of the original peak oil pushers, including King Hubbert, can be traced back to the illuminati. The bad guys have always played the 'fake scarcity' game; see Africa. But even if peak oil is for real, LATOC style, the problem with the theory is that we have already found alternatives to oil as an energy source. Anyone who goes far enough down this rabbit hole will inevitably discover that suppression of energy technology has been going on for a long time. Bill Cooper, among others, exposed this.

dys

[Horn]

http://workwithbrianandfelicia.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/013e009e-f1eb-4021-8884-b13e7f477588.gif

[Hatha Sunahara]

Horn's got the right idea. The dollar is becoming worthless. It is also being used to redistribute the world's wealth. Do you suppose it's a coincidence that Rockefeller owns huge oil interests as well as huge banking interests? JD Rockefeller used his oil wealth to go into banking because it is all about control of money and resources and the world and all the people in it.

And when the oil becomes too expensive to extract, they will shift their resources to a different technology which they will also control.

Did you know that in 2005 Chevron/Texaco bought the patent used to make Lithium-Ion car batteries for $30 million? They closed down all the production of these batteries. Do you ever wonder what happened to GM's earlier electric car, the EV-1? They made about 1000 of them in 1996, and leased them out in Southern California. Then a few years later they terminated all the leases, took back the cars and destroyed them. Nissan had an electric car which it also leased, and around 2005 they terminated the leases and destroyed those cars too. No explanation for that. Toyota made a RAV-4 that was all electric, and it too was terminated.

Also, did you know that Nikola Tesla fitted an ac electric motor into a new Pierce Arrow automobile in 1933, and ran it with an electric device that would recieve electricity wirelessly from its surroundings? There is apparently a way to extract electricity from the ether that costs no money at all. There are lots of technologies that would replace oil with something that costs little or nothing. Burning oil is the 'status quo' and must be maintained until the elite control a new status quo. The elite apparently want to charge us all the money they can so we can burn all the oil they can sell us before they will allow us to switch to any newer technology for energy use. That means until the oil runs out--and that will take many many more years. Maybe hundreds of years. Until that oil runs out, they will not allow us to have the newer technology. They are suppressing it and killing the people who develop it. And their media marginalizes all new technology. What's that? You haven't noticed this? Well, you're not alone. The people who believe in peak oil and 'climate change' haven't noticed that either. And of course, I'm sure very few people know that Chevron/Texaco own the patent for the electric car battery as well. Ask yourself, why would they want to own the patent for a car battery?

There seem to be a lot of people who believe what the media tells them and what the economists tell them. Not enough skeptics in the world yet to make much of a difference.

Listen to Lindsey Williams. He says when gas prices go to $7/gallon at the pump, there will be a glut of oil. They just want much more money for something that isn't scarce at all.

The real problem is that the money, the dollar, is becoming worthless. That will be fixed before any technology alternative to oil will be developed for mass use.


Hatha

[Hatha Sunahara]

In case you think I'm blowing smoke, or smoking blow, take a look at this.

http://fuel-efficient-vehicles.org/energy-news/?p=690

Oops, my bad here. It was the NiMH Car Battery that Chevron Texaco bought control of the patent from the GM-Ovshinsky joint venture. Then Chevron Texaco sued Panasonic for making this battery. Panasonic subsequently shut down the factory for the NiMH batteries. So now all the electric cars have to use Lead-Acid or LiIon batteries because Chevron Texaco killed this NiMH battery for commercial use. Ask yourself why.

Hatha

[Sparky]

I very much agree that alternatives are being suppressed by those who currently profit from fossil fuels. Congress is essentially holding the big oil companies responsible for developing the alternatives, which of course presents an obvious conflict of interest.

So I'll agree that there will ultimately be a revolutionary new paradigm, and that it could be developed sooner rather than later if were so allowed, but I say the switch to the new paradigm will ultimately be driven by the current oil barons running short of sufficient product to sell at an acceptable profit, and that it will be in less than 100 years, and maybe as few as 30.

[letter_factory]

It's possible that we're being led/forced into another paradigm (electric car) through inflationary environment, which they are also allowing to happen. OP's chart looks like manipulation, where they raise the price, people complain, they lower the price a little bit, people relax, and they crank it back again slowly, but because people are used to it, they don't complain as much.

But why are they doing this? my guess is they can't just come out and say, "hey, we want everyone to go electric." People would stop buying conventional cars and wait till electric cars came out. It would be like if everyone stopped what they were doing and suddenly rushed for the doors.

Bottom line is, we're being led, but the real question is why. bankers making money is just a piece of it. They have their part to play like chimps pressing a button for some treats, but for those that make money out of nothing, money isn't the end game.

[gunDriller]

Most of the original peak oil pushers, including King Hubbert, can be traced back to the illuminati. The bad guys have always played the 'fake scarcity' game; see Africa. But even if peak oil is for real, LATOC style, the problem with the theory is that we have already found alternatives to oil as an energy source. Anyone who goes far enough down this rabbit hole will inevitably discover that suppression of energy technology has been going on for a long time. Bill Cooper, among others, exposed this.

dys

Hubbert's associations don't change production facts - the US oil production peaked in 1970.

the concept of worldwide Peak Oil is that world oil production will follow a similar pattern. by the reckoning of geologists like Ken Deffeyes, peaking & plateauing in November/ December 2005 with the possibility that we will exceed 4Q 2005 numbers.

one note - there is oil production, and there is total liquids, running at about 75 and 85 million barrels per day respectively.


oil is one of the, if not the, most manipulated market & industry in the world. production numbers are often manipulated up - OPEC members did this after they decided that production would be allowed according to stated reserves. Kuwait's reserves doubled overnight, from 49 billion to 98 billion - they wanted a license to export more, so they simply re-stated their reserves up.

just because Peak Oil has been hi-jacked by numbskulls doesn't mean the theory or concept is invalid.

as with gold, the low-hanging fruit has been picked, with exceptions - e.g. ANWR - "got to save the caribou". we all know the US gov. doesn't care about the caribou. that oil is being set aside on purpose, probably for the US military & other chosen-ites.

[dys]

Hubbert's associations don't change production facts - the US oil production peaked in 1970.

the concept of worldwide Peak Oil is that world oil production will follow a similar pattern. by the reckoning of geologists like Ken Deffeyes, peaking & plateauing in November/ December 2005 with the possibility that we will exceed 4Q 2005 numbers.

one note - there is oil production, and there is total liquids, running at about 75 and 85 million barrels per day respectively.


oil is one of the, if not the, most manipulated market & industry in the world. production numbers are often manipulated up - OPEC members did this after they decided that production would be allowed according to stated reserves. Kuwait's reserves doubled overnight, from 49 billion to 98 billion - they wanted a license to export more, so they simply re-stated their reserves up.

just because Peak Oil has been hi-jacked by numbskulls doesn't mean the theory or concept is invalid.

as with gold, the low-hanging fruit has been picked, with exceptions - e.g. ANWR - "got to save the caribou". we all know the US gov. doesn't care about the caribou. that oil is being set aside on purpose, probably for the US military & other chosen-ites.

It is most certainly NOT a fact that US oil production peaked in 1970. Facts aren't derived from sources that aren't credible. Credible sources aren't proven liars, murderers, and thieves. Conflict of interest also indicts the credibility of a given source.

dys

[FreeEnergy]

For "peak oil" theory believers:



The US oil production set to boom, By Simone Sebastian
Updated 12:10 a.m., Tuesday, February 21, 2012

The US oil production will grow by 1 million barrels per day by 2020.

Last month, the U.S. Energy Information Administration upgraded its forecast of crude production in 2025 to 6.4 million barrels per day — 1 million barrels more than were pumped in 2010.

The number of rigs in U.S. oil fields has more than quadrupled in the past three years to 1,272, according to the Baker Hughes rig count. Including those in natural gas fields, the U.S. now has more rigs at work than the entire rest of the world.
“It's staggering,” said Marshall Adkins, who directs energy research for financial services company Raymond James. “If we continue growing anywhere near that pace and keep squeezing demand out of the system, that puts you in a world where we are not importing oil in 10 years.”

By the EIA's forecast, the U.S. will challenge Saudi Arabia as the world's top oil producer when crude and other forms of liquid petroleum are included.

Read more: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/energy/article/U-S-oil-output-set-to-boom-3345237.php#ixzz1pRH1BcBj

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/energy/article/U-S-oil-output-set-to-boom-3345237.php


chart:
http://ww3.hdnux.com/photos/11/50/41/2525270/6/628x471.jpg


Russian scientists believe oil does not come from dead dinosaurs. Neither do I. They also think it is a renewable resource. I spoke to a well owner a while back, he says wells refill, it just takes time.

[gunDriller]

for people who want to know US & world production numbers for oil (approx. 75 million barrels per day since 2005) & total liquids (an extra 10 million barrels per day - includes liquefied natural gas etc.) -

http://www.theoildrum.com/

big forum full of geologist folks. very little politics.

hard to fudge production numbers, although some countries try.

not hard to fudge Reserve numbers.


Cambridge Energy Research Associates charge $3000 a year for their reports on the Cornucopia of Oil that Abounds.

http://www.ihs.com/products/cera/index.aspx

among geologists, Daniel Yergin is looked at as the Jeff Christian of the group.

[Horn]

but I say the switch to the new paradigm will ultimately be driven by the current oil barons running short of sufficient product to sell at an acceptable profit, and that it will be in less than 100 years, and maybe as few as 30.

Judging by the number of positive reviews on site of Putin, he should have it available in 2013...

http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?59681-Just-got-some-insider-info-sounds-like-we-re-definitely-going-to-war