thinkin about gettin one of these: [Archive]

Heimdhal

18th March 2012, 03:56 PM

No, it is NOT an awesome gun, and no its not a good price. Its not a bad gun or a bad price, but better can be had.

If you are dead set on an AR, shop around and you can part build one for a little less than busmaster is asking with more control over, and better quality, parts.

The real saving grace of the platform is that modularity of it. You can swap stuff around easier. If you're a mall ninja or plan on having multiple calibers that might be what you want. The overall function of them leaves a bit to be desired and the round itself is anemic and not the greatest man stopper.

Again I'll ask, what are you doing with it? Itll serve you very well as competition gun if you're getting into say NRA Highpower, or bulls eye matches wehre youll drop $2k into the gun to make it shoot 1/4 MOA or better.

If its going to be an all purpose gun, or end of the world gun, or self defense against the zombie hordes gun or pretty much anything of a serious nature, you'd be, especialy as a new gun owner, much better served with another rifle. The fact that you mention your knowledge base of AR weapons comes from video games tells me it is NOT the right gun for you.

Save your money, buy a better gun for less money, get more ammo, get some training with it (appleseed would be a great start) and become proficient.

I would personaly strongly recomend you look into the AK platform, whether it be a WASR, GP1975, Saiga or Arsenal. The money you save buying the gun can be put into ammunition and TRAINING to properly aquaint yourself with it.

If you've got a little extra money, an M1a (m14 clone) or FAL would be worth considering, but the ammo isnt always the cheapest.

LuckyStrike

18th March 2012, 04:52 PM

Regardless of the company, that's a good price. I've just been pricing AR's lately.... I priced them at all the local stores and then checked around online ... $700+ seems like a great price for one of these. My friend has one, I've played around with it and it's really nice. I always have heard that M4/AR-15 is very customizable and interchangable. To be honest the first time I ever heard of this gun was in video games, but let's face it ... it's a pretty awesome gun. It seems like it would be great for most any situation. If you guys think there are better options than an AR I am all ears!

First I would like to echo Heimdahls statements.

Your question is pretty broad since we don't know what your goals are for the gun. I personally have never been a fan of the AR for two main reasons, stopping power and reliability in that order. Those two are deal breakers for me because if there are two things I look for in a weapon it's reliability and stopping power (in that order).

I am a big fan of the AK as a SHTF gun where reliability will be paramount, they can also be had for quite cheap in relation to AR's. Recently though I have become an even bigger fan of the FAL, which to me encompasses the best of all worlds, reliability like an AK and customizable and accurate at distance like an AR, plus better stopping power at any distance than either. Price wise they are comparable to an AR.

The only downside of a FAL as I see it is ammo price, and weight, but to me these are small prices to pay for what is IMO one of the top 3 best long guns ever made.

osoab

18th March 2012, 05:00 PM

The fact that you mention your knowledge base of AR weapons comes from video games tells me it is NOT the right gun for you.

Your comment reminds me of something along these lines. ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNPFLWCZQC0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNPFLWCZQC0&feature=related

Heimdhal

18th March 2012, 05:55 PM

haha, those are great, if a bit annoying in their pentameter, lol. Thats like the guys who have picked up one rifle in their whole life and say:

"I wont to get the superest most elitist sniper rifle ever to shoot 1,000 yards!" nevermind they've never shot past 50 feet.

Im not directing that at the OP by anymeans, but everyone should understand that the absolute best peice of equipment a shooter has is his own skill level and if that is lacking, no fancy nick-nack is going to make up for it. There are things that can enhance skills, but the skills MUST be present first to be enhanced.

To the OP, I dont know what other guns you have, but I woudl strongly consider getting a ruger or marlin .22 rifle, hitting up an appleseed and getting a good foundation first.

osoab

18th March 2012, 07:06 PM

revolution, three things.

Saying you first heard about a gun in a video game is lame.

Calling something an "assault rifle" with no intentions of assaulting is passe and helps to perpetuate the evil/bad aura on firearms.

Throwing down 720 without holding the firearm is not a good idea. You also must include shipping, taxes, and ffl transfer fees in the price unless you are picking up at buds. I wouldn't pay that without holding it first. I don't want the hassle of shipping back and forth while my money is tied up.

Heimdhal

18th March 2012, 07:16 PM

I dont mean to be a dick or anything I really dont, but the fact that used "assault rifle" some FIVE times in your post suggest you dont have a full grasp.

ANd thats not a bad thing, seeking information is the first step in gaining knowledge. An AR-15 is NOT an "assault rifle". I beg you now, please STOP calling it that, get it totaly out of your gun vocabulary. That is "their" term for it, it is simply a rifle, or a carbine, or even a high-capacity rifle/carbine. It does NOT bear the features of a true assault rifle, which is a select fire, military weapon capable of full auto or burst. Amatures and noobz call it an assault rifle. Its akin to calling Magazines (or mags) clips. Mags are mags, clips are clips, rifles are rifles and assault rifles are assault rifles. That bushmaster up there isnt one.

Ok......Rant over....

On to the points you make. Yes, they ARE a good investment, particularly in troubled times such as these. Keep in mind that there are literaly THOUSANDS of companies that specialize in making AR's. The market is literaly flooded with AR companies, this makes resale a little harder from an investment stand point.

I wont lie, I am biased. Out side of very specific (comeptition) uses, I will recomend a commie milsurp rifle to most people hands down. If there is going to be a firearms ban, the first thing to go will be hi-cap rifles (assault rifles as you and anti-gun crowd calls them) with the imports (AK's FALS, etc) being the very first. So, from a value stand point, they will skyrocket long before AR's.

However, if you already have 25 guns (non of which are high cap rifles) I am assuming your a hunter and have lots of larger caliber rifles and shot guns. Dont discount their use for home defense, even in SHTF. Its easy to burn through 30 rounds on a high cap rifle, much more so than 30 rounds of buck shot or 30-06 from the deer gun.

osoab

19th March 2012, 10:58 AM

You've succeeded in irritating me, not really because of your last post.. just your overall attitude is very rude. So here's my counter-rant which I'm sure will be over-analyzed or even misinterpreted, but I don't give a fuck anyway.

You seem like one of those guys that think having knowledge of guns is "cool"
First of all it isn't cool, and you get no bragging rights for being knowledgeable of them.
The condescending statements are a dead giveaway that you think that you are some sort of expert. It's like you boost your own ego by telling other people they have no knowledge, hell you even said I'm a new gun owner at one point when I highly doubt your marksmanship skills using iron sites could ever counter mine in the real world. This exact scenario is encountered on basically any forum on any topic. If I were to go post on a fishing forum then I would get some unemployed asshole that thinks he is a professional fisherman and would speak condescendingly. This is just the nature of the internet. Whether or not you think "assault rifle" is the correct terminology is completely irrelevant, this is just a forum where people talk... nothing more, and regardless of your "expert" opinions on these matters AR can be referred to as an assault rifle. I live in North Carolina and the stores here refer to the AR-15 as an assault rifle, and even Wikipedia refers to it as an assault rifle. But once again, this is irrelevant, because your ranting is just typical forum banter which holds no importance.

You just genuinely seem to me like the type of asshole who thinks he knows more than he really does, and is probably in some cyber clique of like-minded individuals. Feel free to condescendingly tell me how I am wrong but I'm sure there are others in this vast world who would agree your arrogant nature of speaking to people is unwarranted and also makes you seem like a forum troll/nerd.

Anyway, thanks for the information you have offered. Although I don't think the information was worth it to be borderline-insulted or disrespected by strangers.

Maybe you guys will think I've overreacted but honestly I feel like this guy disrespected me. I'm out of here, probably won't be back.

What ever you decide, don't throw that kind of cash down without first handling the firearm.

JJ.G0ldD0t

19th March 2012, 11:18 AM

wow....

really?

undgrd

19th March 2012, 11:34 AM

Heimdhal is correct. If you're buying an assault rifle, better bring closer to 10K to the table.
He's also correct in asking your intent for the weapon.

Personally, I would recommend a nice AR. I prefer Colt, LWRC, or Daniel Defense. These companies have personally proven reliable and have wonderful customer support.

The companies listed above produce weapons that are great for punching paper. They would hold up well under hard use too.

SilverTop

19th March 2012, 05:00 PM

You've succeeded in irritating me, not really because of your last post.. just your overall attitude is very rude. So here's my counter-rant which I'm sure will be over-analyzed or even misinterpreted, but I don't give a fuck anyway.

Hee hee, if rudeness irritates you then you are surely on the wrong forum. This is a tough crowd here.

As a Vet Nam vet I can assure that Heimdhal gave you some real solid advice.

But it's your life that is on the line, or you into prairie dog hunting? Because like LuckyStrike said that's about all a AR is any good for.

I think you need to get out of mom's basement and do some real living before you come here and rag on these guys.

Just my 3cents.

LuckyStrike

19th March 2012, 07:43 PM

Maybe you guys will think I've overreacted but honestly I feel like this guy disrespected me. I'm out of here, probably won't be back.

I can pretty much assure you having read Heimdahls posts for damn near 5 years now that he was trying to give you honest advice. I have never seen him be disrespectful to anyone on here. I guess the bottom line is don't ask questions of people if you don't want honest answers.

midnight rambler

24th March 2012, 08:49 PM

Anyone without extensive experience with the direct gas impingement system and knowing how to keep it running at least semi-reliably (at best, as that's all one can expect out of something that eats where it shits) - as in military experience, should definitely NOT get an AR-15.

I would urge any noob who lacks experience in keeping a semi-auto in top operating condition get either an AK (1st choice) or a FAL (2nd choice). Neither of those are going to let you down (so long as they don't originate from Century Arms International - NEVER buy a CAI gun, EVER).

Book

24th March 2012, 10:08 PM

I've been using guns my whole life. I have about 25 guns, just no assault rifles.

::) you guys are being played:

I was wondering .. does anyone have a suggestion for a scope? I've never bought a scope before. I was thinkin I would spend within the $150-200 range.

LuckyStrike

24th March 2012, 10:33 PM

::) you guys are being played:

Seems quite plausible, unless he has like 15 shotguns, 5 bb guns and 5 pistols.

Heimdhal

25th March 2012, 07:28 AM

Book, I'll break down and say that you're right. :)

But he got all butt hurt and left, so Im not too worried about it.

I think lucky strike is being too kind on his assumption. I personaly think its more like 15 Nerf Guns, 5 super soakers, 2 rubber band shooters and some parts to a couple foam disk launchers.

solid

25th March 2012, 08:14 AM

I think lucky strike is being too kind on his assumption. I personaly think its more like 15 Nerf Guns, 5 super soakers, 2 rubber band shooters and some parts to a couple foam disk launchers.

Heim, that's not fair. This guy said he was experienced. I'm sure he has at least one potato gun too...

Heimdhal

25th March 2012, 10:57 AM

Silly me. You're right, he MUST have AT LEAST one potato gun.

;)

solid

25th March 2012, 12:03 PM

Silly me. You're right, he MUST have AT LEAST one potato gun.

;)

When I was a kid, my neighbor and I would play with these little potato guns... They were great fun. You stick the tip into the spud, point and squeeze. The ones we had were metal though, back in the day they actually looked like guns.

http://www.misskaties.com/pd-potato-spud-gun.cfm

JJ.G0ldD0t

25th March 2012, 12:19 PM

::) you guys are being played:

yeah... he was pretty apparently a Jr. Member.

Shame he didn't stick around..... Baptism by FIRE! lol

Rubberchicken

25th March 2012, 07:28 PM

Give him a break we all had to start somewhere, at least he was here.

Awoke

26th March 2012, 07:47 AM

I would just like to say that the term "Assault rifle" is an industry standard, at least in conversation circles, and I think you guys were being unnecessarily hard on Revolution for using the term.
If he was a shill, we would have outted him in no time anyways.

"Semi-automatic Carbine Rifle" is a mouthful.

Heimdhal

26th March 2012, 07:51 AM

I dont know how things are in Canada, but it is NOT an industry standard in the U.S. I am IN the industry and it is an abhored term when used incorrectly among the many firearms circles I've had the fortune to be involved in.

You dont have to say "semi automatic carbine", simply AR-15 or AR will suffice. Or high cap if you really want to stretch it out, but when you start calling every black rifle an "assault rifle" it hurts the gun owners cause, it is an improper usage and it makes people sound like noobs.

There ARE legitimate assault rifles. If you have a class III you can buy one. They cost upwards of $10,000 depending on model. The class III crowd REALLY hates when semi autos are called assault rifles. :)

Awoke

26th March 2012, 07:57 AM

Well, the class III crowd is going to have to lump it, because the term "Assault rifle" is thrown down onto almost every semi-auto Carbine out there. I hear it all the time. I personally don't care enough to make the distinction.
I refer to my rifle as an the "SKS", because that's what it is, and it's easier to say. But if the name was a mouthful, I have no doubts that I would just call it an assault rifle.

Heimdhal

26th March 2012, 08:03 AM

And thats exactly the problem. Thats where the misconceptions arise and ignorant sheep are never educated on the difference. I have SKS's too, and they were NEVER an assault rifle. They are a military rifle, but NEVER, EVER were an assault rifle, unlike the AR/m16 or AK platforms.

All Im saying is, to most gun people, hearing some one say it in that context is an instant red flag and a sign of a "noob" or at least some one that never took the time to get educated on what they actually own.

Its the same as calling a Magazine a "Clip" or a muzzle brake a muzzle "break". Or ponce saying "Dont call them Jews and Occultist, call them 'Zionist'".

Anyways, I think you get the idea of what Im getting at. This guy was obviously trolling or was just REALLY exaggerating his truths and he got called on it, took tail and ran. Thats all. We've run people off these boards before ;)

Awoke

26th March 2012, 08:37 AM

osoab

26th March 2012, 08:39 AM

Give him a break we all had to start somewhere, at least he was here.

And we were nice until he got himself in a hissy fit.

He wouldn't listen to anyone here, so.....

solid

26th March 2012, 08:43 AM

I have SKS's too, and they were NEVER an assault rifle. They are a military rifle, but NEVER, EVER were an assault rifle, unlike the AR/m16 or AK platforms.

So, what actually is an assault rifle? To use the term properly, what separates an assault rifle from a military rifle?

As far as running people off the boards, you do need thick skin here sometimes. But that's a good thing. What runs people off, is when they make a post, or post a question....and don't get the answers they want to hear. If I make a post, saying I like a certain gun, etc..etc..and all the responses are that the gun sucks and don't buy it. Taking that personally is what runs people off. I admit, it's happened to me in the past.

Thick skin. Don't post a question unless you actually want honest answers to it. That's really what it comes down to. People let their egos get in the way sometimes.

midnight rambler

26th March 2012, 08:44 AM

Well then, for the sake of this "ignorant noob sheep", please clearly define the distinction between a "Military" rifle and an "Assault" rifle, to spare me the risk of offending the Class III experts.
Thanks.

As was pointed out earlier, the definition of 'assault rifle' strictly being a select fire rifle comes straight from the pentagram where the term originated.

Awoke

26th March 2012, 08:53 AM

Thanks. I didn't read every post before I spoke up about Revolution.

EDIT - What is with the reference to Pentagram? Nick-name for the Pentagon?

solid

26th March 2012, 08:58 AM

As was pointed out earlier, the definition of 'assault rifle' strictly being a select fire rifle comes straight from the pentagram where the term originated.

OK. I think I get it now. There actually is no 'assault rifles' then? It's just a term .gov pushes on the masses in order to shame rifle owners and instill fear about them into the general population?

Heimdhal

26th March 2012, 09:02 AM

Strictly speaking an "assault rifle" is a military firearm that is capable of select fire abilities, generaly being semi-auto and full automatic, or burst fire (2-3 rounds per trigger pull is "burst".) So, yes, assault rifles DO exist. That semi auto ar-15 on the gun shelf for $750 ISNT one.

When I say military weapons I dont mean weapons incapable of being used by the average person, I mean they are WEAPONS designed for use in the parameters of military tactics. However, there are many semi autos and bolt actions that are also military rifles, like our semi auto SKS's or an M1 Garand, or a bolt action Mauser or Mosin Nagant. Those are all military weapons, they were designed for use in battle, not deer hunting or target shooting, though they can easily be used (and often excell at) for that as well.

SLV^GLD

26th March 2012, 09:03 AM

Seems quite plausible, unless he has like 15 shotguns, 5 bb guns and 5 pistols.

All of my BB guns have scopes.

undgrd

26th March 2012, 09:09 AM

There are a few differences. Select fire capability is one. The quality of materials...the bolt carrier group for instance can be different. The feed-ramps on a military automatic M4 are cut deeper to better support automatic fire as opposed to the civilian semi-auto AR-15.

Things can get further complicated due to marketing of civilian M4 or M4gery as they've been known.

M16 = Military select fire assault rifle.
AR-15 = Civilian copy of M16 with semi-auto fire only
M4 = Lighter, shorter military select fire assault rifle based off the M16.

Note: You can buy a semi-auto M4 but it operates much like the AR-15.

Heimdhal might chime in to correct anything.

Heimdhal

26th March 2012, 09:18 AM

Thats a good assesment Undgrd. I didnt want to start getting into chamber cuts/dimensions and pressures between military rifles and civilian copies, as I was affraid of information overload, but its a good point.

I would say that is truly the real designator between miltiary arms and "civilian" arms. Not just "assualt rifles" but in general.

midnight rambler

26th March 2012, 05:50 PM

What is with the reference to Pentagram? Nick-name for the Pentagon?

Yes, what else would it be? It IS a pentagram.

Awoke

27th March 2012, 05:11 AM

I just wanted to make sure I was on the same page.

freespirit

29th March 2012, 04:53 PM

People let their egos get in the way sometimes.

quoted for truth.

Book

2nd April 2012, 10:55 PM

Anyway here's my new AR-15:

http://i43.tinypic.com/2wqcye9.png

2582

http://www.hydrocanna.com/images/smilies/58390736.smiley_wave.gif here's my new toy

LuckyStrike

2nd April 2012, 11:06 PM

I hope you ladies have wonderful lives. I'll be at goldismoney2.com if you need me.

PEACE NOOBS

Oh no, you're leaving? How am I going to get to sleep tonight?

Book

2nd April 2012, 11:16 PM

How am I going to get to sleep tonight?

2583

::) lol

undgrd

3rd April 2012, 05:56 AM

Homotron says what?

PS: That pic looks like you broke into some nice couples house.

Heimdhal

3rd April 2012, 06:07 AM

Homotron says what?

PS: That pic looks like you broke into some nice couples house.

Yeah, his parents! lol

That picture pretty much confirms my suspicions.

Have fun at Gelt Is Money. You will totaly fit in over there with the other sheep who just want to stroke each others ego's and cocks.

PEACE!

SLV^GLD

3rd April 2012, 06:19 AM

Dang, Book beat me to it.

The guy called us noobs while posting a picture of himself with his finger on the trigger.

We don't need that type of membership.

Heimdhal

3rd April 2012, 06:39 AM

Mines bigger! :)

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m179/TeamPointBlank/3dc182de.jpg

undgrd

3rd April 2012, 07:28 AM

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-basic/jawdrop.gif

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-basic/worthy.gif

DMac

3rd April 2012, 07:33 AM

I just wanted to add that this thread really delivered some laughs for me this morning!

;D

midnight rambler

3rd April 2012, 08:35 AM

This is my new toy, the 'perfect repeater' (although this is just a representation and not the actual piece, mine is going to get some 'treatment' to make it a much more suitable PDW) -

http://astorarms.ca/images/non-restricted/Winchester%20model%2012%2016%20gauge%20cropped.JPG

Tumbleweed

3rd April 2012, 09:36 AM

All my guns are assault guns and I'm always assaulting things with them. Beer cans, tree stumps, cow turds, prairie dogs, large and small game. I'm not a real fan of scopes either and don't use them much. Pain in the ass to keep from bumping them and kniocking them off. I'd rather sneek up real close to what I'm going to assault and use iron sites. I like my AK for assaulting things.;D

solid

3rd April 2012, 10:00 AM

The guy called us noobs while posting a picture of himself with his finger on the trigger.

Revolution, if you are reading be careful with your new gun! You basically broke several firearm safety rules there in that picture. Who's upstairs, your mother, or father? Keep your finger off the trigger!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_safety#Rules_and_mindset

revolution

3rd April 2012, 10:01 AM

lol i love the reactions my posts get here. i didnt even really buy an AR-15.

DMac

3rd April 2012, 10:02 AM

lol i love the reactions my posts get here. i didnt even really buy an AR-15.

So you trolled the forum with that noob pic?

solid

3rd April 2012, 10:16 AM

lol i love the reactions my posts get here. i didnt even really buy an AR-15.

Why are you wasting our time and yours then?

osoab

3rd April 2012, 11:05 AM

lol i love the reactions my posts get here. i didnt even really buy an AR-15.

Go back to your mom's basement ya troll!

Book

3rd April 2012, 12:51 PM

http://downontherange.com/pb/wp_e08da2de/images/img284654a02f348b6ad8.jpg

I got this one for $821 with the free scope. Any opinions about my new assault rifle?

http://www.smiley-lol.com/smiley/drague/gay/gayviolet.gif

osoab

3rd April 2012, 01:26 PM

http://downontherange.com/pb/wp_e08da2de/images/img284654a02f348b6ad8.jpg (http://downontherange.com/pb/wp_e08da2de/images/img284654a02f348b6ad8.jpg)

http://www.smiley-lol.com/smiley/drague/gay/gayviolet.gif

What no Hello Kitty stickers?

LuckyStrike

3rd April 2012, 03:56 PM

Tumbleweed

3rd April 2012, 08:24 PM

I like a lot a salt on my food does that count?

Ha! Ha! Yes I think that counts too. The cow I'm eating now was a ssaulted with a rifle but not peppered with a shotgun;D

Uncle Salty

7th April 2012, 03:01 PM

Why an AR and not an AK or FAL?

It depends. But lots of reasons to go with the AR.

The AR has less recoil, so smaller individuals can more readily handle it...that being women and children, who might need to use it during a SHTF scenario. Also, quicker second shots because of that.

The AR is more accurate than the AK.

It is easier to load AR mags than AK or FAL magazines...again making it a better gun in a SHTF scenario where individuals that don't have a lot of training might need to use it.

Reliability...unless you are in the mud or high dusty areas no real advantage to any of them. If you are, then the AK is your weapon. I live in sunny California. Not an issue for me. Unreliability with the AR is more myth than anything. Armies and militias all over the world use all three with good results.

The AR has lighter ammo, so you can carry more of it.

Heimdhal

7th April 2012, 03:05 PM

.......sigh......

EE_

7th April 2012, 05:24 PM

osoab

7th April 2012, 05:41 PM

I think it is a crap shoot with the lot of ammo. My dad has run Wolf 223 through his mini-14 with no issues. At least 500 rounds. I don't know how many he has ran through his colt, but he is using wolf ammo. He has yet to tell me that he had a failure to feed or eject.

A buddy of mine was shooting some Fiocci 7.62x39. He had one round jam the next round's bullet back into the casing.

big country

7th April 2012, 06:21 PM

I know it is all personal opinion and conjecture, but I ran 300rnds of steel case wolf through my AR and didn't have a single issue (without cleaning).
I have a spikes lower and a JT Distributing AR kit. I don't shoot it a ton because I can't afford to shoot that much but I haven't had any issues with it.

Heimdhal

7th April 2012, 06:44 PM

I went shooting with a couple friends a couple weeks ago.
Friend had a DPMS AR-15. I saw that he had bought Wolf ammo for his AR, and told him that I don't like it for any rifle. He fired a magazine load and on one of the last shots, the shell casing did not eject.
He tried to remove it by hitting the forward assist button and manually extracting the jammed casing with no luck. I tried a few times with no success. We had to break down the rifle and work the casing back and forth to free it up and finally get it out.
This rifle for all intent and purpose, was taken out of battle and was useless.
Not something you want happening in a fire fight.
I could only surmise the chamber tolerance was very tight, a little dirt and crap steel/painted case Wolf ammo was the problem.
I've never seen this happen on an AK.

You likley never will.

There are three main factors at play here.

1) The .223/5.56 has a MUCH straighter case wall

2) Wolf Ammo isnt all that bad. Its not great, but its fine for range work and last resort work. It isnt "crap" but it is polymer (or laquer for the older stuff) coated and this causes malfuntions in guns with tight chambers, like those that shoot ammo with straighter case walls as the polymer heats up in the hotter chamber and then gets "sticky" as it cools. Some AR's do fine with it, most dont. It doent hurt the gun, its just a PITA

3)Ak's (and most rifles built for the military, particularly those designed for full auto or burst, even m16's) have larger chamber clearances. AK's also have a more tapered case wall, specificaly for full auto reliability. Having a larger chamber means better heat disipation, better debris clearance and better feed and extraction reliability.

The two biggest hinderances to the AK platform are the sights and the ammo. Most people shoot commercial ammo and say "oh, its crap". Well thats like shooting winchest white box from wal mart and saying "how come this isnt competition grade precision accurate?!"

Quality military surplus, like Yugoslavian m67 or Bulgarian lead core is increabily consistent and also runs hotter. With improved sights (like red dots, tech sights or even mojo's) you really bring the AK into a better realm of accuracy. No, it isnt AR accurate, but it will get you consistent hits on man sized targets out to 350 yards while still being lethal. In fact, I've done just that with the standard open sights. That is precisley what the 7.62x39 platform was designed to operate in.

In fact, a little known secret, that is precisley what the 5.56x45 was also designed to operate within. Even though it will maintain accuracy further out, the round itself require higher velocity to actualy work properly (something the x39 is NOT hindered by) and beyond 300-350 yards, its WOUNDING capabilities are iffy.

Key word there is wounding. Im not looking to wound, Im looking to STOP the threat IMMEDIATLEY. x39 has a lot of ass behind it for that purpose. ;)

midnight rambler

7th April 2012, 07:11 PM

making (the AR) a better gun in a SHTF scenario where individuals that don't have a lot of training might need to use it.
Oh the irony!! lol

Only the willfully ignorant would make such an asinine assertion.

See my sig about "There's something wrong..." -

Uncle Salty

10th April 2012, 05:56 PM

Oh the irony!! lol

Only the willfully ignorant would make such an asinine assertion.

See my sig about "There's something wrong..." -

I did. Whoopdeedoo.

Now get off your high horse. Don't like the AR...don't get one. Get what you like for the reasons you like. Put them on paper and some will disagree.

midnight rambler

12th April 2012, 11:20 AM

I did. Whoopdeedoo.

Now get off your high horse. Don't like the AR...don't get one. Get what you like for the reasons you like. Put them on paper and some will disagree.

About 20 years ago I had 3 quality ARs. They were a ton of fun to shoot, and damn accurate. Anyone who thinks the AR is practical for emergency circumstances suffers from a disability (anoscognosia) and is in denial about the severe limitations of the AR. Apparently these lost souls are emotionally involved with their (tacticool) ARs beyond redemption. I really don't care. I've posted several times about the 'Contra jungle torture test' and the miserable failure rate of the M-16 when neglected and abused under the very same conditions alongside the M-14, AK, and FAL (like what would happen in a SHTF scenario), still many don't get it. Oh well.