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palani
20th April 2012, 05:59 PM
In Olde England the Sheriff was the King's man, considered to be the governor of the County in which he had office. I ran across this oath that was required of the incumbent:


the following Oath shall be taken by all High Sheriffs, except the Sheriffs of Wales and of the County Palatine of Chester, &c. “I A.B. do swear that I will well and truly serve the King’s Majesty in the Office of Sheriff of the County of …… and promote his Majesty’s Profit in all things that belong to my Office as far as I legally can or may. I will truly preserve the King’s Rights and all that belongeth to the Crown. I will not assent to decrease, lessen, or conceal the King’s Rights, or the Rights of his Franchises; and wheresoever I shall have Knowledge that the Rights of the Crown are concealed or withdrawn, be it in Lands, Rents, Franchises, Suits or Services, or in any other Matter or Thing, I will do my utmost to make them be restored to the Crown again; and, if I may not do it myself, I will certify and inform the King thereof, or some of his Judges. I will not respite or delay to levy the King’s Debts for any Gift, Promise, Reward or Favour, where I may raise the same without great Grievance to the Debtors. I will do Right as well to Poor as to Rich, in all Things belonging to my Office. I will do no Wrong to any Man for any Gift, Reward , or Promise, nor for Favour or Hatred. I will disturb no Man’s Right, and will truly and faithfully acquit at the Exchequer all those of whom I shall receive any Debts or Duties belonging to the Crown. I will take nothing whereby the King may lose, or whereby his Right may be disturbed, injured or delayed. I will truly return, and truly serve all the King’s Writs according to the best of my Skill and Knowledge. I will take no Bailiffs into my Service but such as I will answer for, and will cause each of them to take such Oaths as I do in what belongeth to their Business and Occupation. I will truly set and return reasonable and due Issues of them that be within my Bailiwick, according to their Estate and Circumstances, and make due Panels of Persons able and sufficient, and not suspected or procured, as is appointed by the Statutes of this Realm. I have not sold or let to Farm, nor contracted for, nor have I granted or promised for Reward or Benefit, now will I sell or let to Farm, no contract for grant for Reward or Benefit by myself or any other Person for me, or for my Use, directly or indicrectly, my Sheriffwick or any Bailiwick thereof, or any Office belonging thereunto for the Profits of the same to any Person or Persons whatsoever. I will truly and diligently execute the good Laws and Statutes of this Realm, and in all Things well and truly behave myself in my Office for the Honour of the King and the Good of his Subjects, and discharge the same according to the best of my Skill and Power. So help me God.”

The text can be found "A New Abridgment of the Law" by Mathew Bacon on Google books ... a free download.

Note the COMMERCIAL nature of the office?

Gaillo
20th April 2012, 07:13 PM
the following Oath shall be taken by all High Sheriffs, except the Sheriffs of Wales and of the County Palatine of Chester, &c. “I A.B. do swear

Why the exceptions for County Palatine of Chester and Whales? ???

palani
20th April 2012, 07:18 PM
Why the exceptions for County Palatine of Chester and Whales? ???

When they established counties with a status of Palatine their noble-critter in charge was able to negotiate a more sovereign entity. The Welch people are the indigenous people of England and the last conquered.

Palatine counties have other variations as well ... which heir inherits etc.

Hatha Sunahara
21st April 2012, 09:09 AM
The king must have paid his sheriffs really well to have them swear to do all those things loyally for him. I would presume that the Sheriffs were all high-caste people (noblemen), and that this Oath was taken after the Magna Carta, because although it speaks of the King's rights, it also recognizes the rights of others. Plus, it seems that the King insisted that his Sheriffs not only be loyal and competent, but honest as well.

Interesting word here: Sheriffwick. I have heard Bailiwick, which I presume comes from the duties of the Bailiff--who may have been the official thug of the judge, while the Sheriff was the official thug of the King. It appears however that the King may have had some respect for the law, unlike today's 'kings'.

I have a theory that the law reined in the king in the real world, while the king appointed a jester to rein him in in his own mind. I suppose there was an oath for the jester and such a thing as a Jesterwick.


Hatha

palani
21st April 2012, 11:28 AM
Here is the oath required of the Under Sheriff (we call them deputies nowadays)


And now by the 3 Geo.1.c.15.sect.19. it is enacted, That all Under Sheriffs of any Counties in South Britain, except the Counties in Wales and County Palatine of Chester, before they enter upon their Offices, shall take the following Oath, viz. “I A.B. do swear, that I will well and truly serve the King’s Majesty in the Office of Under Sheriff of the county of …. And promote his Majesty’s Profit in all Things that belong to the said Office as far as I legally can or may, and will preserve the King’s Rights and all that belongeth to the Crown. I will nt assent to decrease, lessen or conceal the King’s Rights, or the Rights of his Franchises; and whensoever I shall have Knowledge that the Rights of the Crown are concealed or withdrawn, be it in Lands, Rents, Franchises, Suits or Services, or in any other Matter or Thing, I will do my utmost to make them be restored to the Crown again; and if I may not do it of myself I will certify and inform some of his Majesty’s Judges thereof, and will not respite or delay to levy the King’s Debts for any Gift, Promise, Reward or Favour, where I may raise the same without great Grievance to the Debtors. I will do Right as well to Poor as to Rich, in all Things belonging to my Office. I will do no Wrong to any Man for any Gift, Reward or Promise, nor for favour or Hatred. I will disturb no Man’s Right, and will truly and faithfully acquit at the Exchequer all those of whom I shall receive any debts, Duties or Sums of Money belonging to the Crown. I will take nothing whereby the King may lose, or whereby his Right may be disturbed, injured or delayed. I will truly return, and truly serve all the King’s Writs to the best of my Skill and Knowledge. I will truly set and return reasonable and due Issues of them that be within my Bailiwick, according to their Estates and Circumstances, and make due Panels of Persons able and suficient, and not suspected or procured, as is appointed by the Statutes of this Realm. I have not bought, purchased, or taken to Farm or contracted for, nor have I promised or given any Consideration, nor will I buy, purchase, or take to Farm, or contract for, promise or give any Consideration whatsoever by himself or any other Person for me, or for my Use, directly or indirectly, to any Person or Persons whatsoever, for the Office of Under Sheriff of the County of … which I am now to enter upon and enjoy, nor for the Profits of the same, nor for any Bailiwick thereof, or any other Place or Office belonging thereunto. I have not sold or contracted for, or let to Farm, nor have I granted or promised for Reward or Benefit by myself, or any other Person for me, or for my Use, directly or indirectly, any Bailiwick thereof, or any other Place of Office belonging thereunto. I will truly and diligently execute the good Laws and Statutes of this Realm, and in all Things well and truly behave myself in the said Office for his Majesty’s advantage and for the Good of his Subjects, and discharge my whole Duty according to the best of my Skill and Power. So help me God.”

palani
21st April 2012, 11:30 AM
Despite the following a Sheriff might remain in power for Years or Life but the Crown was smart enough to move them out after a single year. A deputy was also moved out after a single year.


By the 14 E.3.cap.7. it is enacted, “That no Sheriff, (a) Under Sheriff, nor Sheriff’s Clerk, shall tarry or abide in his Office above one Year, upon Pain to forfeit two hundred Pounds yearly as long as he occupieth the Office; and that every Pardon made for such Offence or Forfeiture shall be void; and all (b) Letters Patent made to occupy such Office above one Year shall be void, any Words or Clasue of non obstante put into such Patent notwithstanding; and that whosoever shall presume to take upon himself the Office of a Sheriff above one Year by Force of such Letters Patent, shall be disabled from ever after to be Sheriff within any County of England.

After observing the system in place in the U.S. I would say this was a wise policy.

Libertytree
21st April 2012, 12:06 PM
THE HISTORY OF THE OFFICE OF SHERIFF
BY: HARRY C. BUFFARDI

Text and PDF at link.

http://catroncountysheriff.com/history.htm

(From the OLd West Chapter) It's actually in regular English.

Along with general powers of arrests, states gave sheriffs widely divergent privileges.
Wyoming allowed for sheriffs to use a residence for his law enforcement purposes at
county expense. New Mexico extended jurisdictional limits of the sheriff to permit him or
his deputies to enter all counties in the state to affect an arrest and to have concurrent
rights of posse comitatus in every county. While the duties of sheriffs and their deputies
were multitudinous, the primary law enforcement functions were virtually identical
throughout the early West.

A 1861 Nevada statute illustrates typical duties of the sheriff: "It shall be the duty of Sheriffs and of their deputies to keep and preserve the peace in
their respective counties, and to quiet and suppress all affrays, riots, and insurrections for
which purpose, and for the service of process in civil and criminal cases, and in
apprehending or securing any person for felony, or breach of the peace, they may call
upon of their county"93 As chief law enforcement officer of the county, the sheriff performed diverse duties.

In many jurisdictions he served as tax collector, similar to the duties of the colonial sheriff.
Also in contrast to its colonial forerunner, the sheriff had to administer corporal
punishment, as directed by the courts. The sheriff often times was required to carry out
the sentence of death. Rustic executions in the Wild West were performed primarily by
hanging an offender. Sometimes sheriffs constructed formal gallows for this purpose, and
other times a rope was simply tossed over a stout tree limb to accomplish the execution.
Other duties of the office, collateral to the crime fighting duties, were rather mundane and
involved the service of process or other civil enforcement functions, that were performed
usually under peaceful conditions. Some counties prescribed rather peculiar duties like
inspecting cattle, fighting fires, or eradicating prairie dogs. No matter what the specific
duties of a community required, universally by the later part of the nineteenth century, the
sheriff occupied the preeminent position in law enforcement throughout the West.94

There were many laws directing the appointment of sheriffs, but there were none
directing prescribed procedures for the post. Most times the sheriff simply did things by
the way his personality guided him. There was no formal training for the position and
there was no standardization. That is until David J. Cook, a 1860's Colorado sheriff and
an 1870's Denver police chief, compiled a basic set of rules which became somewhat of a
standard operating procedure for Western peace officers. Reputed to have arrested some
three thousand criminals during his years as a Colorado peace officer, Cook developed
rules called "Self-Preservation" in his 1882 book, Hands Up! or Twenty Years of
Detective Life in the Mountains and on the Plains.

The rules are as follows:

I. Never hit a prisoner over the head with your pistol, because you may afterwards want
to use your weapon and find it disabled. Criminals often conceal weapons and sometimes
draw one when they were supposed to have been disarmed.

II. Never attempt to make an arrest without being sure of your authority. Either have a
warrant or satisfy yourself thoroughly that the man whom you seek to arrest has
committed the offense.

III. When you attempt to make an arrest, be on your guard. Give your man no opportunity
to draw a pistol. If the man is supposed to be a desperado, have your pistol in your hand
or be ready to draw when you make yourself known. If he makes no resistance, there will
be no harm done by your precaution. My motto has been, "It is better to kill two men than
to allow one to kill you".

IV. After your prisoner is arrested and disarmed, treat him as a prisoner should be treated
-as kindly as his conduct will permit. You will find that if you do not protect your
prisoners when they are in your possession, those whom you afterwards attempt to arrest
will resist you more fiercely, and will be inclined to sell their lives as dearly as possible.

V. Never trust much to the honor of prisoners. Give them no liberties which might
endanger your own safety or afford them an opportunity to escape. Nine out of ten of
them have no honor.95

**** Part of the significance of the office of the sheriff was derived from the rural conditions
of the area. The vastness of the territories required broad jurisdictional enforcement
needs. The other significance resulted in the general need for law enforcement in a
relatively untamed and lawless condition that was rampant in the West. Because of the
lawlessness, a need for powerful and unique personalities to control the crime issues was
called for. As a result, colorful and dramatic persons were to hold the office of sheriff in
the Wild West. These personalities have provided imagination fuel for our concepts of
how the West was won. The next portion of this work will deal with some of the exciting
and unusual characters that held the office.

TheNocturnalEgyptian
21st April 2012, 01:42 PM
Despite the following a Sheriff might remain in power for Years or Life but the Crown was smart enough to move them out after a single year. A deputy was also moved out after a single year.



After observing the system in place in the U.S. I would say this was a wise policy.


By the 14 E.3.cap.7. it is enacted, “That no Sheriff, (a) Under Sheriff, nor Sheriff’s Clerk, shall tarry or abide in his Office above one Year, upon Pain to forfeit two hundred Pounds yearly as long as he occupieth the Office; and that every Pardon made for such Offence or Forfeiture shall be void; and all (b) Letters Patent made to occupy such Office above one Year shall be void, any Words or Clasue of non obstante put into such Patent notwithstanding; and that whosoever shall presume to take upon himself the Office of a Sheriff above one Year by Force of such Letters Patent, shall be disabled from ever after to be Sheriff within any County of England.


The way I read this is that the Sheriff may stay in office for as long as he likes, as long as he pays 200 pounds yearly.

Libertytree
21st April 2012, 02:18 PM
I really gotta chuckle! He keeps yaw'll chasin' your tails! Olde English laws don't make a dayum! If you're studying legal antiquity that would seem pertinent but that's about it.

palani
21st April 2012, 02:36 PM
The way I read this is that the Sheriff may stay in office for as long as he likes, as long as he pays 200 pounds yearly.

The intent was to remove them after 1 year in office. Later in the chapter:


Notwithstanding this, it hath been adjudged in the Year-Book, 2 H.7.6.b. that the King by the Clause of Non obstante, might make a good Patent of such office for Life and by the following Authorities, which seem to be grounded on this Resolution, it is said, that the King by his Prerogative may dispense with these Statutes, and grant the Office of Sheriff for Years, Life, or in Fee. 7 Co. 14- Finch of Law 234. Plow. 502. Dalt. Sh.22. But yet vide 2 Hawk. P.C.390 where the contrary Opinion is holden, and the Reason of these Authorities refuted.

So life tenure in office was possible but not normal.

Libertytree
21st April 2012, 02:40 PM
Fuck a King!! Let the neighbors decide!! 1 Year or 20.

palani
21st April 2012, 02:44 PM
Olde English laws don't make a dayum!

As stare decisis (let the judgment stand) is basic to the common law these old histories are priceless. Rather than assume there is authority when there is none make them prove their authority and from where it came.

Libertytree
21st April 2012, 02:57 PM
As stare decisis (let the judgment stand) is basic to the common law these old histories are priceless. Rather than assume there is authority when there is none make them prove their authority and from where it came.

Authority exists where you make it exist, not from any antiquated writings/statutes. Common law or better yet the law of Common Sense are better teachers. Priceless is cool but in everyday life it's useless.

palani
21st April 2012, 03:03 PM
Fuck a King!! Let the neighbors decide!! 1 Year or 20.

Watch out that weeds don't in your garden grow. Failure to govern yourself will result in others governing for you.

palani
21st April 2012, 03:05 PM
Authority exists where you make it exist, not from any antiquated writings/statutes. Common law or better yet the law of Common Sense are better teachers. Priceless is cool but in everyday life it's useless.

Experience is a good teacher but it results from a long hard journey.

palani
21st April 2012, 03:05 PM
By the 23 H.6.cap.10. it is provided, “That no Sheriff shall let to Farm in any Manner his County, nor any of his Bailiwicks, Hundreds or Wapentakes.”

By "farm" they mean to contract out any of the functions of his office. He is permitted under sheriff's (deputies) and clerks. But what is this? How is it a sheriff has a county, bailiwicks, hundreds or wapentakes? Here all a sheriff has is a county and there are no people in counties.


Bailiwick ... In England, it signifies generally that liberty which is exempted from the sheriff of the county over which the lord of the liberty appoints a bailiff.


WAPENTAKE... An ancient word used in England as synonymous with hundred.

palani
21st April 2012, 05:22 PM
He is therefore at this Day considered as an Officer of great Antiquity, Trust, and Authority, having, as Mr. Dalton observes, from the King the Custody, Keeping, Command and Government (in some Sort) of the whole County committed to his Charge and Care, and, according to my Lord Coke, he is said to have triplicem Custodiam, viz. Vitae justiciae, vitae legis, et vitae reipublica, &c. Vitae justiciae to serve Process, and to return indifferent Juries for the Trial of Men’s Lives, Liberties, Lands and Goods; vitae legis to execute Process and make Execution, which is the Life of the Law, and vitae republicae to keep the Peace.

Now how many sheriff's in the U.S. do you suppose understand that their powers are derived from these three sources? I bet 90% of them figure they are in office to build their estate and mess with people.

palani
22nd April 2012, 05:01 PM
the law of Common Sense

Wise men are instructed by reason;
Men of less understanding, by experience;
The most ignorant, by necessity;
The beasts by nature.
Letters to Atticus[?], Marcus Tullius Cicero

Try to figure out where you fit in this scheme.

Libertytree
22nd April 2012, 05:04 PM
Wise men are instructed by reason;
Men of less understanding, by experience;
The most ignorant, by necessity;
The beasts by nature.
Letters to Atticus[?], Marcus Tullius Cicero

Try to figure out where you fit in this scheme.

All 3.

Where do you fit in, in these regards?

palani
22nd April 2012, 05:36 PM
Where do you fit in, in these regards?

Man is made or unmade by himself; in the armoury of thought he
forges the weapons by which he destroys himself; he also fashions
the tools with which he builds for himself heavenly mansions of joy
and strength and peace. By the right choice and true application of
thought, man ascends to the Divine Perfection; by the abuse and
wrong application of thought, he descends below the level of the
beast.

From James Allen "As A Man Thinketh"

I attempt to base my actions upon right choice and true application (aka reason).

Glass
22nd April 2012, 06:10 PM
Is the Sheriff's power derived from anything more specific than the delegation of the Kings power? Surely that is not where US Sheriff's derive their authority.

My comprehension is that the Sheriff is a land based entity whereas a Marshall is a water based entity. One deals with Vessels, the other deals with I don't know what. I thought the Sheriff dealt with flesh and blood men.

Going back to the Kings authority, I wonder if they are derived from the powers of the Lord High Constable and the Lord High Admiral? I believe these powers are split and only the Lord High Admiral is active in the Queen. This is for other countries that also have Sheriffs. If these powers comes from those 2 roles then there shouldn't be any Sheriffs or they would be alleiged to some one else.

palani
22nd April 2012, 06:21 PM
Is the Sheriff's power derived from anything more specific than the delegation of the Kings power? Surely that is not where US Sheriff's derive their authority.

My comprehension is that the Sheriff is a land based entity whereas a Marshall is a water based entity. One deals with Vessels, the other deals with I don't know what. I thought the Sheriff dealt with flesh and blood men.

Going back to the Kings authority, I wonder if they are derived from the powers of the Lord High Constable and the Lord High Admiral? I believe these powers are split and only the Lord High Admiral is active in the Queen. This is for other countries that also have Sheriffs. If these powers comes from those 2 roles then there shouldn't be any Sheriffs or they would be alleiged to some one else.



It seems that anciently the Government of the County was by the King lodged in the Earl or Count, who was the immediate Officer to the Crown; and this high Office was granted by the King at Will, sometimes for Life, and afterwards in Fee; but when it became too burthensome, and could not be commodiously executed by a Person of so high Rank and Quality, it was thought necessary to constitute a Person duly qualified to officiate in his Room and Stead, who from hence is called in Latin, Vicecomes, and Sheriff from Shire Reeve, i.e. Governor of the Shire or County. He is likewise considered in our Books as Bailiff to the Crown; and his County of which he hath the Care, and in which he is to execute the King’s Writs, is called his Bailiwick.

It is said by Lord Coke and Dalton, that Earls , by Reason of their high Employments and Attendance upon the King, being not able to follow all the Business of the County, were delivered of all that Burthen, and only enjoyed the Honour as they now do, and that Labour was laid upon the Sheriff; so that now the Sheriff doth all the King’s Business in the County; and the Sheriff, tho’ he be still called Vicecome:, yet all he doth, and all his Authority, is immediately from and under the King, and not from or under the Earl; so that at this Day the Sheriff hath all the Authority for the Administration and Execution of Justice which the Count or Earl had; the King by his Letters Patent now committing to the Sheriff Custodiam Com’.

The U.S. has counties which are administrative subdivisions of the State. The government of each county is by a Board of Supervisors (at least in the western States) rather than by Sheriff. In the day this book was written for England the Sheriff was the government. He did have a court of his own for a period of time but mostly obtained his authority from the writs directed to him to execute.