Downside of Not Paying For Soda

[palani]

Florida Man Charged With Felony for Allegedly Stealing $1 Cup of Soda From McDonald's

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/florida-man-charged-felony-allegedly-stealing-1-cup-002830215--abc-news-topstories.html


A Florida man was arrested and held on $6,500 bond after police in Collier County said he left a McDonald's without paying for a cup of soda valued at $1.

Mark Abaire, 52, had apparently asked staff at the Naples restaurant for a courtesy cup of water, but instead he allegedly filled the cup with soda from the soda fountain and sat outside of the restaurant, according to a story in the Naples Daily News which cited the police report of the Thursday incident.

Abaire allegedly refused to pay for the soda when he was asked to do so, refused to leave the restaurant and cursed at the manager, the Naples Daily News also reported.

Abaire, whose aliases include "Red" and "Clown," has a long list of prior arrests, according to records from the Collier County Sheriff's Department.

He was charged with petty theft, trespassing and disorderly intoxication after the Thursday arrest, and sent to Collier County jail. Petty theft is usually a misdemeanor, but because Abaire has previous convictions for theft, the charge was upgraded to a felony. The trespassing and disorderly intoxication charges are misdemeanors.

Abaire could face five years in prison if he is convicted of the felony.

Records indicate Abaire will return to court on May 14.

Life is tough. It is even tougher when you are STUPID!! Who wants to bet this guy has a SSN and is going to receive some benefit from it ... it is going to pay for his removal from society.

[DMac]

Basic care for felons, IIRC from another post, runs anywhere from $20,000-$45,000 per year in prison costs, not including Judge salaries and the like.

So for 1 dollar's worth (LOL) of stolen soda, the state decides it would be better to spend from $100,000 to $225,000 to house and feed this degenerate, and keep McDonald's safe.

MADNESS

[palani]

MADNESS

The penalty was drinking the soda. That act comes with it's own penalty.

[keehah]

...refused to leave the restaurant and cursed at the manager, the Naples Daily News also reported.

Abaire, whose aliases include "Red" and "Clown," has a long list of prior arrests, according to records from the Collier County Sheriff's Department.

He was charged with petty theft, trespassing and disorderly intoxication

Fast Food Putsch? ;D

http://cbskool.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/the-old-mcdonalds-gang.jpg?w=385&h=240

[MNeagle]

Basic care for felons, IIRC from another post, runs anywhere from $20,000-$45,000 per year in prison costs, not including Judge salaries and the like.

So for 1 dollar's worth (LOL) of stolen soda, the state decides it would be better to spend from $100,000 to $225,000 to house and feed this degenerate, and keep McDonald's safe.

MADNESS

Oh, and better medical care than uninsured citizens too (usually). Recall the dude that robbed a bank just for the medical bennies?

[palani]

Oh, and better medical care than uninsured citizens too (usually).

And if you are a high-visibility Federal prisoner you might qualify for unlimited travel. It is called "diesel therapy" and involves continually moving the prisoner from facility to facility by bus until his/her health is broken.

[iOWNme]

Florida Man Charged With Felony for Allegedly Stealing $1 Cup of Soda From McDonald's

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/florida-man-charged-felony-allegedly-stealing-1-cup-002830215--abc-news-topstories.html



Life is tough. It is even tougher when you are STUPID!! Who wants to bet this guy has a SSN and is going to receive some benefit from it ... it is going to pay for his removal from society.

Did i miss somethinghere? Didnt he steal the soda? Is theft a crime?

The title of this thread should have been "Downside to STEALING property"

[palani]

Didnt he steal the soda? Is theft a crime?

He was honest in that he refused to pay for the soda. Many more people are dishonest in that they use a debt instrument to discharge the debt rather than using substance to extinguish it.

Possibly you have been using FRNs to fool yourself into thinking that you are actually PAYING for something and thereby derive ownership?

[iOWNme]

He was honest in that he refused to pay for the soda. Many more people are dishonest in that they use a debt instrument to discharge the debt rather than using substance to extinguish it.

Possibly you have been using FRNs to fool yourself into thinking that you are actually PAYING for something and thereby derive ownership?

Did he steal the soda?

"he was honest in refusing to pay for it"......LOL

Palani if i stole your Blacks Law dictionary, and then refused to pay for it, would i be honest?

Do you believe there are moral absolutes? Or does the use of Gold and Silver coin toss out all morals?

[palani]

Did he steal the soda?

You have not provided sufficient definition to come to a conclusion. Consider the elements required of the crime of larceny first:


LARCENY, crim. law. The wrongful and fraudulent taking and carrying away, by one person, of the mere personal goods, of another, from any place, with a felonious intent to convert them to his, the taker's use, and make them his property, without the consent of the owner. 4 Wash. C. C. R. 700.

2. To constitute larceny, several ingredients are necessary. 1. The intent of the party must be felonious; he must intend to appropriate the property of another to his own use; if, therefore, the accused have taken the goods under a claim of right, however unfounded, he has not committed a larceny.

3. - 2. There must be a taking from the possession, actual or implied, of the owner; hence if a man should find goods, and appropriate them to his own use, he is not a thief on this account. Mart. and Yerg. 226; 14 John. 294; Breese, 227.

4. - 3. There must be a taking against the will of the owner, and this may be in some cases, where he appears to consent; for example, if a man suspects another of an intent to steal his property, and in order to try him leaves it in his way, and he takes it, he is guilty of larceny. The taking must be in the county where the criminal is to be tried. 9 C. & P. 29; S. C. 38 E. C. L. R. 23; Ry. & Mod. 349. But when the taking has been in the county or state, and the thief is caught with the stolen property in another county than that where the theft was committed, he may be tried in the county where arrested with the goods, as by construction of law, there is a fresh taking in every county in which the thief carries the stolen property.

5. - 4. There must be an actual carrying away, but the slightest removal, if the goods are completely in the power of the thief, is sufficient to snatch a diamond from a lady's ear, which is instantly dropped among the curls of her hair, is a sufficient asportation or carrying away.

6. - 5. The property taken must be personal property; a man cannot commit larceny of real estate, or of what is so considered in law. A familiar example will illustrate this; an apple, while hanging on the tree where it grew, is real estate, having never been separated from the freehold; it is not larceny, therefore, at common law, to pluck an apple from the tree, and appropriate it to one's own use, but a mere trespass; if that same apple, however, had been separated from the tree by the owner or otherwise, even by accident, as if shaken by the wind, and while lying on the ground it should be taken with a felonious intent, the taker would commit a larceny, because then it was personal property. In some states there are statutory provisions to punish the felonious taking of emblements or fruits of plants, while the same are hanging by the roots, and there the felony is complete, although the thing stolen is not, at common law, strictly personal property. Animals ferae naturae, while in the enjoyment of their natural liberty, are not the subjects of larceny; as, doves; 9 Pick. 15; Bee. 3 Binn. 546. See Bee; 5 N. H. Rep. 203. At common law, choses in action are not subjects of larceny. 1 Port. 33.

7. Larceny is divided in some states, into grand and petit larceny this depends upon the value of the property stolen. Vide 1 Hawk, 141 to 250, ch. 19; 4 Bl. Com. 229 to 250; Com. Dig. Justices, O 4, 5, 6, 7, 8; 2 East's P. C. 524 to 791; Burn's Justice, Larceny; Williams' Justice, Felony; 3 Chitty's Cr. Law, 917 to 992; and articles Carrying Away; Invito Domino; Robbery; Taking; Breach, 6.



Palani if i stole your Blacks Law dictionary, and then refused to pay for it, would i be honest?
To what extent is Blacks Law dictionary necessary for your survival?


HONESTY. That principle which requires us to give every one his due.


Do you believe there are moral absolutes? Absolutely.


Or does the use of Gold and Silver coin toss out all morals? Let's examine it from another angle. Does lack of gold or silver chuck out all morals? Apparently so if considering the degree of morality exhibited by society.

Now let me ask: Do you hold the view that you own anything? If so then how do you propose to hold onto your property when the State decides to remove everything of value from your possession?

[Neuro]

He was honest in that he refused to pay for the soda. Many more people are dishonest in that they use a debt instrument to discharge the debt rather than using substance to extinguish it.

Possibly you have been using FRNs to fool yourself into thinking that you are actually PAYING for something and thereby derive ownership?
McD are free to accept payment in any way they like. In this case they prefer to get payed in fraudulent debt instruments called FRN's. That doesn't mean anyone has the right to offer something of equal value, iow nothing, and McD is bound to accept it. They demanded that he payed the $1 FRN that the soda costed he had ingested, and he refused, so he was stealing from McDonald's. Stealing is a crime. Trials and incarceration of criminals is costly, but ignoring them would be even more costly. Look at the cost of not prosecuting financial criminals over the last century...

[palani]

Stealing is a crime.

Lex non curat de minimis. The law does not regard small matters. Hob. 88.

[Neuro]

Lex non curat de minimis. The law does not regard small matters. Hob. 88.

Really? So stealing things of little value is ok then?

[Hatha Sunahara]

Thank you, Palani for this post. I somehow managed to look up today's docket for the Collier County Court at this URL:

http://apps.collierclerk.com/DOCKETS/DocView.aspx?id=77151&searchid=8bf94dff-c260-4deb-ac50-f7fbb2830183&dbid=0

Please note that there are 20 pages in this docket snippet, with around 7 cases per page. That's 140 cases just for today. This must be the day when the speed trap cops show up for court because most of the cases are traffic violations, and there are a huge number of speeding tickets--possibly half the cases for people going 90+ mph in a 70 mph zone on Interstate 70. Collier county must be a place where people like to drive fast, or the cops just invent the speed for the violations--i can't tell from the docket.

Mister Abaire, who likes to drink HFCS sweetened poison without paying for it could have his incarceration paid for by extracting labor from him on a 'chain gang', or the county might pay for it from revenues extracted from people who like to speed in their county. Assuming that everyone on the docket today is found guilty, and the average amount extracted from each is $250, times 140, is $35,000.

I haven't checked the docket for other days in Collier County Court, but I would assume that the local Criminal Justice system is a multi-million dollar racket. When there is that much money involved, it isn't likely that 'justice' is being dispensed. I'm pretty sure that the Judges, the prosecutors, the police, and even the local lawyers support this system to the hilt because they are all likely making a very good living from it. Sure looks like a meat grinder down there in Collier County. I would also suspect that Mr. Abaire, who likes soda has a bad attitude because he has been ground to a pulp by this system, and perhaps the extent of his stupidity is that he hasn't found a kinder gentler place in which to live.

I'm going to do a search for online court dockets in my area now.


Hatha

[palani]

Really? So stealing things of little value is ok then?

The general principle is that a person in possession of land or goods, even as a wrongdoer, is entitled to take action against anyone interfering with the possession unless the person interfering is able to demonstrate a superior right to do so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property_law

[palani]

Most people are mis-informed on the nature of property ownership. Possession is considered first and foremost. A legal maxim is : possession is, as it were , the position of the foot. You claim the land you stand on. This is also the basis for trespass should someone have a higher claim.

In a communist country the State is the only legal owner. Other people might have equitable ownership.

Religious societies (Talmud) view ownership as an act. You do something to become an owner. You might believe people of middle east origins to be crooks (or not) but by their rules if you sit on a donkey and it moves then you are the owner. If you lead a camel and it follows then you are the owner.

Corporations are incapable of this act of ownership. Corporations cannot possess anything because they have no hands to hold reins or feet to possess land. In Iowa I could purchase a Certificate of Existence for a corporation from the Secretary of State for $5. It seems corporations don't even have existence unless you can find a paper that claims that they exist.

[joboo]

I would have corrected them on their mistake to poison me with their HFCS GMO cocktail.

Their fluoridated chlorinated water like beverage is clearly the superior choice.

[palani]

A story told on the Creditors in Commerce site is of Gordon Hall, sitting in his cell in Federal prison, with a plastic chess set from the rec room. The guard comes by and asks him if he has a permit to have the plastic chess set in his cell. He responded "I don't need a permit for my private property." Guard goes to remove the chess set and Hall tells him "you can have my property for $40,000.". Guard accepts his offer (takes the property), Hall seeks payment up the chain to the warden. Warden sends him back to the captain so he figures he is done ... liens up the warden for $40,000.

To make a long story short, he parlays the lien to get into the prison drug rehab program (he is not a druggy) because when he completes the program they knock 1 year off his sentence.

Again, ownership is an act. Private property is the holy grail of common law. You assert ownership and you ARE the owner (except perhaps in Texas ... there they say the owner is the one paying the property tax ... that is where the interests of the State of Texas lie).