Identified some fake Morgans and other coins at a jewelry store

[jbeck57143]

I know a guy who runs a jewelry store. He's not real familiar with 90% silver so he had me come in to look at some Morgan Dollars and some other coins a customer had dropped off. All the coins were fake. There were 108 Morgan Dollars--all of them 1885 cc, which is worth a lot of money, and 1887 cc, which doesn't even exist. I weighed some of the Morgan Dollars and one was about 20 grams, one was around 17 grams, one was around 18 grams, and the rest of the ones I weighed were about 19.5 grams-19.9 grams. There were also 2 Peace Dollars that were just under 20 grams. There were also 3 1804 Liberty Dollars, which are extremely rare, and one from 1797. Those were around 22 grams.

I took some of the Morgan Dollars and the Liberty Dollars to a coin store near where I live so they could look at them. They pointed out some other things about them--like the rim on some of the Morgans was uneven-it was wider at some points. They also used a magnet on them and all the coins stuck to the magnet. They also compared them to a counterfeit Morgan they keep in the store (That one doesn't stick to a magnet, but it's real light).

[Twisted Titan]

I would purchase a few dummy bags just as a security.

Testing kits are going to be worth a small fortune in the coming years....I need to buy several

[osoab]

I know a guy who runs a jewelry store. He's not real familiar with 90% silver so he had me come in to look at some Morgan Dollars and some other coins a customer had dropped off. All the coins were fake. There were 108 Morgan Dollars--all of them 1885 cc, which is worth a lot of money, and 1887 cc, which doesn't even exist. I weighed some of the Morgan Dollars and one was about 20 grams, one was around 17 grams, one was around 18 grams, and the rest of the ones I weighed were about 19.5 grams-19.9 grams. There were also 2 Peace Dollars that were just under 20 grams. There were also 3 1804 Liberty Dollars, which are extremely rare, and one from 1797. Those were around 22 grams.

I took some of the Morgan Dollars and the Liberty Dollars to a coin store near where I live so they could look at them. They pointed out some other things about them--like the rim on some of the Morgans was uneven-it was wider at some points. They also used a magnet on them and all the coins stuck to the magnet. They also compared them to a counterfeit Morgan they keep in the store (That one doesn't stick to a magnet, but it's real light).


108 cc's in one bag? Should have been a warning flag at that point..

[undgrd]

I guess he should have called you FIRST. Could have saved himself a bunch by giving you 25% of what he GAVE to the other guy.

[beefsteak]

I'm calling BullPuckey on this. This doesn't pass the smell test.

What jewelery store "takes in & holds" over the counter coins?
Anyone reading this horse manure ever tried to trade up even a used karat gold neckchain at a local "jewelry" store?

ALL legit jewelery stores have all the toys for testing silver, gold, platinum and clear + colored stones, regardless of shape or condition.

What jeweler isn't familiar with the 2nd most recognizable US Coin ever made?

What "jeweler" doesn't own a magnet? Even the schlock silver neckchain gig is well known in the trades and a magnet is what is used by the so called Jeweler to not get stuck with silver plated S/S neck chains from his own high volume wholesale supplier with this scam which has been known about for years.

What jeweler in this day and age doesn't have the internet? It's a simple thing to check for basic coin wt info. Are we now to believe the jewelery store doesn't own gram scales?

This isn't a jewelry store, this is a pawn shop story. And it still smells. B/C as a pawnshop, most states require the pawnbroker to hold "over the counter purchases" for xyz days so the local LEOs can check for stolen goods.

No jeweler calls in a 3rd party customer to verify jack!!!!!!

And the newbie poster is a real wingnut who posted this. Take a sec to click on the "user name" and check out what normal fare is for posting by this wingnut.

S/He should run not walk to the ATF and report this b/c S/HE's now an accomplice after the fact in a counterfeiting scam and that's some serious poo. To add to the "color of this fabrication" s/he's just now flagged his own IP by stupidly posting this false flag story on this forum.

WHAT A CROCK!

PS...TITAN...if you're stackin' silver, you only need under $20 worth of supplies and you're fixed for LIFE by making your own silver test solution on demand. It's called Schwerter's Test Solution. Check out free to join Gold Refiners Forum for instructions as to how to make it, by a poster named GSPro. Save money and use a washed out Visine eyedropper bottle with a good twist cap on it for your testing solution.

beefsteak

[Spectrism]

jbeck- whose sock puppet are you?

[mamboni]

I would purchase a few dummy bags just as a security.

Testing kits are going to be worth a small fortune in the foming years....I need to buy several

Just buy junk silver dimes and quarters and silver eagles and sleep easy at night.

[Santa]

I'm calling BullPuckey on this. This doesn't pass the smell test.

What jewelery store "takes in & holds" over the counter coins?
Anyone reading this horse manure ever tried to trade up even a used karat gold neckchain at a local "jewelry" store?

ALL legit jewelery stores have all the toys for testing silver, gold, platinum and clear + colored stones, regardless of shape or condition.

What jeweler isn't familiar with the 2nd most recognizable US Coin ever made?

What "jeweler" doesn't own a magnet? Even the schlock silver neckchain gig is well known in the trades and a magnet is what is used by the so called Jeweler to not get stuck with silver plated S/S neck chains from his own high volume wholesale supplier with this scam which has been known about for years.

What jeweler in this day and age doesn't have the internet? It's a simple thing to check for basic coin wt info. Are we now to believe the jewelery store doesn't own gram scales?

This isn't a jewelry store, this is a pawn shop story. And it still smells. B/C as a pawnshop, most states require the pawnbroker to hold "over the counter purchases" for xyz days so the local LEOs can check for stolen goods.

No jeweler calls in a 3rd party customer to verify jack!!!!!!

And the newbie poster is a real wingnut who posted this. Take a sec to click on the "user name" and check out what normal fare is for posting by this wingnut.

S/He should run not walk to the ATF and report this b/c S/HE's now an accomplice after the fact in a counterfeiting scam and that's some serious poo. To add to the "color of this fabrication" s/he's just now flagged his own IP by stupidly posting this false flag story on this forum.

WHAT A CROCK!

PS...TITAN...if you're stackin' silver, you only need under $20 worth of supplies and you're fixed for LIFE by making your own silver test solution on demand. It's called Schweters Test Solution. Check out free to join Gold Refiners Forum for instructions as to how to make it, by a poster named GSPro. Save money and use a washed out Visine eyedropper bottle with a good twist cap on it for your testing solution.

beefsteak

Wow! Haha... When you call bullshit on another poster, this is the way to do it.... No vapid pathetic lame weak fruity false accusations here like we've seen so much of in the past. Just industrial facts. I'm impressed. Way to go, beefsteak.

[horseshoe3]

Wow! Haha... When you call bullshit on another poster, this is the way to do it.... No vapid pathetic lame weak fruity false accusations here like we've seen so much of in the past. Just industrial facts. I'm impressed. Way to go, beefsteak.

Beefsteak is good at calling BS the right way. He goes down the post point for point and disproves them all. He doesn't make it personal and he doesn't dredge up something innocuos that somebody said years ago and twist it to suit his purposes. And most importantly, he is very selective about calling BS. He doesn't go on never ending tirades about half the forum. That makes it much more believable when he does call someone out.

[JohnQPublic]

Good points beefsteak. The story does sound fishy.

Now let jbeck respond if he wants to.

[jbeck57143]

He hadn't bought them-the customer had just dropped them off. Sometimes people bring in something to sell and leave it with him until he decides if he wants to buy it or not, then he gets back to them, or they come in to find out what he's decided. Since he wasn't familiar with the US coins he had me come in to look at them- so he didn't lose any money.

What's interesting is, if this guy was willing to leave them with the store, he had to have known the owner would research them and find out they were fake. Unless he was hoping that wouldn't happen?

[SLV^GLD]

Pics or it didn't happen, jbeck...

[mamboni]

He hadn't bought them-the customer had just dropped them off. Sometimes people bring in something to sell and leave it with him until he decides if he wants to buy it or not, then he gets back to them, or they come in to find out what he's decided. Since he wasn't familiar with the US coins he had me come in to look at them- so he didn't lose any money.

What's interesting is, if this guy was willing to leave them with the store, he had to have known the owner would research them and find out they were fake. Unless he was hoping that wouldn't happen?

NO one in his right mind is going to leave that much silver, let alone Morgan dollars, with some store/jeweler without collateral or cash. If the stuff disappears or gets light what the hell is he going to do? This story smells like....a story.

[Cebu_4_2]

Jbeck handled that quite nicely....

http://cache.blippitt.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Popcorn-02-Stephen-Colbert.gif

[Cebu_4_2]

NO one in his right mind is going to leave that much silver, let alone Morgan dollars, with some store/jeweler without collateral or cash. If the stuff disappears or gets light what the hell is he going to do? This story smells like....a story.

I trust my local jeweler and would leave anything with him. I'm not in the shady side of town as some may be.

[Hermie]

PS...TITAN...if you're stackin' silver, you only need under $20 worth of supplies and you're fixed for LIFE by making your own silver test solution on demand. It's called Schwerter's Test Solution. Check out free to join Gold Refiners Forum for instructions as to how to make it, by a poster named GSPro. Save money and use a washed out Visine eyedropper bottle with a good twist cap on it for your testing solution.

beefsteak

Here's a link... http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=311

[madfranks]

The story sounds plausible to me. I'm not a professional numismatist, but I know things about coins that even people who run coin shops don't know (off topic, but I had a conversation with a guy working the counter at a coin shop nearby and he didn't know all that much about coins). So this jeweler calls a friend who he knows has an eye for coins and can give him some info, so he does. However, like osoab mentioned, the fact that the bag was all 1885 CC and that didn't raise a flag with the jeweler is almost unbelievable, and the fact that a guy would simply leave all that silver (known fake or not) with someone else is also hard to buy. I wonder if the seller is planning something underhand, like come back and when he's told the coins are fake call out the jeweler as a thief, that those aren't the coins I brought in, you switched them on me, etc.

[Rubberchicken]

jbeck- whose sock puppet are you?

"Coin" is that you?

[jbeck57143]

Holy smokes! What's with people? I didn't make this up (Why would I??) Yes it's a real jewelry store. The owner's not real familiar with US coins so he had me look at them. I don't know why he didn't test them himself. I'm sure he would have. He wasn't going to buy them without finding out what they were. Sure he could have did his own research, but the had me look at them--so what?

As for him not noticing they were all the same, he had just gotten them. He hadn't started inspecting them. I'm sure he would have noticed they were all the same once he began going through them-but he had me do that for him instead.

Whether or not the guy was in his right mind, he did leave the coins with the store.

As for pictures, I don't know if I'll get a chance to take any-but it's still a true story.

It never occurred to me people would think this is made up--because it's not.

[Spectrism]

I don't think it is a made-up story. There are details we don't know, so it would be erroneous to assume.

See if you can find out where those coins came from. My bet is they were made in China... like everything else these days. BTW- you don't have a geiger counter do you? I would not put it past the bastards to dope the coins with cobalt60 or some other nasty.

[SLV^GLD]

I'm not saying it's made up but I know if I had my hands on a trove of fake coins and was about to post the story online I would include pictures.

Pictures do lots of wonderful things such as educate, augment and reduce verbiage as well as lend authenticity to the story.

[ximmy]

jbeck57143, enjoy your 15 minutes of fame :p

[mamboni]

Holy smokes! What's with people? I didn't make this up (Why would I??) Yes it's a real jewelry store. The owner's not real familiar with US coins so he had me look at them. I don't know why he didn't test them himself. I'm sure he would have. He wasn't going to buy them without finding out what they were. Sure he could have did his own research, but the had me look at them--so what?

As for him not noticing they were all the same, he had just gotten them. He hadn't started inspecting them. I'm sure he would have noticed they were all the same once he began going through them-but he had me do that for him instead.

Whether or not the guy was in his right mind, he did leave the coins with the store.

As for pictures, I don't know if I'll get a chance to take any-but it's still a true story.

It never occurred to me people would think this is made up--because it's not.

OK, let's say your story is true. Consider that anyone who had a bag of fake rare date Carson City mint Morgan silver dollars either knew their numismatic significance and that they are fake, or believed them to be legitimate. If he knew they were fakes, then the last thing he'd do is bring them to an expert in batch to be authenticated. He's have to know they'd be siezed. On the other hand, if he believes the coins are real, then he is either very stupid and gullible or a thief, as the coins are likely stolen. If your expert friend is smart, he'll distance himself from said coins ASAP.

[horseshoe3]

After thinking about this a little more, I can see how it would be a true story. It's not how I would have done things had I been in the shoes of either the buyer or the seller, but it is plausable. Hanlon's razor comes to mind: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

[Spectrism]

Isn't this also a case of COUNTERFEITING? This is a legal tender- a US minted coin, that is being faked. Shouldn't some "authority" be called in to investigate this wholesale counterfeit batch?

[madfranks]

Isn't this also a case of COUNTERFEITING? This is a legal tender- a US minted coin, that is being faked. Shouldn't some "authority" be called in to investigate this wholesale counterfeit batch?

Absolutely - the police should be there preferably at the same time the original owner of the coins comes back to retrieve them.

[mamboni]

Absolutely - the police should be there preferably at the same time the original owner of the coins comes back to retrieve them.

Yeah maybe. But nobody likes a squealer. Yet still, these fakes need to be taken off the street pronto. What to do, what to do.

[beefsteak]

The proper people to "inform" is the ATF under whose aegis the Secret Service operate.

Consider this fact for a moment. The US Secret Service won't even issue a waiver in order to permit a documented and properly captioned, counterfeit, single specimen of the gold plated US 1913 V Nickel (yes the one passed for a $5 gold in the bars in the days of early American gold rush) in the American Numismatic Association Museum cases in Colorado.
This was 30 years ago, and they still won't issue said waiver.
In fact, they came in and seized it on the spot within days of it being showcased in the museum exhibit.

ATF/SS are serious as a heart attack when it comes to uncovering, seizing and pursuing the counterfeiting of US coins or currency.

But as iterated earlier, jbeck's IP is now captured and the wheels of cyber space are now engaged. They WILL inexorably grind slowly and very very fine.


beefsteak

[solid]

The Secret Service does need to justify their jobs. Especially after that whole prostitution scandal. What they need is a big score, a win for the team. I bet they are out on the prowl.

[Santa]

Geesh, I'm glad I'm nowhere near that mess. If it's for real.

And I would never recommend calling the "Authorities" in on anything. Ever!!! But that's just me. SSS...

[Eyebone]

The proper people to "inform" is the ATF under whose aegis the Secret Service operate.

Consider this fact for a moment. The US Secret Service won't even issue a waiver in order to permit a documented and properly captioned, counterfeit, single specimen of the gold plated US 1913 V Nickel (yes the one passed for a $5 gold in the bars in the days of early American gold rush) in the American Numismatic Association Museum cases in Colorado.
This was 30 years ago, and they still won't issue said waiver.
In fact, they came in and seized it on the spot within days of it being showcased in the museum exhibit.

ATF/SS are serious as a heart attack when it comes to uncovering, seizing and pursuing the counterfeiting of US coins or currency.

But as iterated earlier, jbeck's IP is now captured and the wheels of cyber space are now engaged. They WILL inexorably grind slowly and very very fine.


beefsteak

Thats beautiful, in a somewhat ideal world thats what would happen, "ATF/SS" busts the 'federal reserve' arrests the players for treason and we return to lawful money.

Real world, counterfeiting is normal.

[beefsteak]

Counterfeiting is not normal. Theft is not normal. Fraud is not normal.

THAT's the real world.

And yes, I've contacted the ATF/SS over the years re: counterfeiting of gold coins.

I like attending "collectibles auctions" especially when there are "coins" listed on the sale flyer or in the newspaper. I've dropped a dime on many an auctioneer for "gold rarities" in particular which are as phoney as a $15 bill.

Welcome to my real world. It is a world where no one named MORGAN or DIMON or RUBIN or Geithner are role models for "what's normal."


beefsteak