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Hatha Sunahara
3rd June 2012, 07:59 PM
On another thread, GunDriller made a recommendation to read the Sanhedrin part of the Talmud, and pointed out its similarity to the Uniform Commercial Code. I ran into another posted article that called commercial law 'Babylonian Law'. I dug a little deeper, looking into Babylonian Law, and I found this:


http://www.fourwinds10.net/siterun_data/government/judicial_and_courts/news.php?q=1223309663






The law of Babylonia has had an immense effect upon that of nearly all the countries of Europe . . . The literature of Babylon has perished; but the element of culture which has endured was greater than the literature. That element is law, an organized intelligible system of rights and duties enforced by the State. . . The great work of the nation was the production of a system of law, necessary to the extended commercial activity of the city . . . The complex Babylonian civilization, which produced a commercial law in advance of any other ancient system . . . was . . . the product of . . . its relations to the other countries of the world.


The exercise of judicial functions, at least in matters of commercial law, seems to have been in the hands of the hierarchy. The reasons for this may have been in part those which, in the mediaeval period of European history, threw the control of legal procedure largely into the hands of the ecclesiastics. In Babylon, the custom of documentary evidence in almost all transactions . . . and the wide extent to which written contracts were employed, made the notarial and judicial functions of the priests very extensive. But the part taken in business transactions by the priesthood was appropriate for another reason, which perhaps had more influence in the time of the early law, before the purely commercial side had been developed. This was the part which was connected with contractual oaths, which at first were numerous. The contracting parties were obliged in their contracts to swear by the principal god of the country, and by the reigning prince, that they would abide by the conditions of the contract . . ."

The Babylonian Law developed to the fullest extent the idea of a Contract. Almost any possible business transaction was reduced to the form of a contract and was executed with the same formalities - i.e., with witnesses, notary, and signature. Thus the points as to deeds, sales, mortgages, loans, and banking are in no respect different in form from the matter of hiring, rent and leases, partnership, testaments, and domestic relations, including adoption. Transactions so very different could be reduced to the same principle, or brought under the one head, only by a highly abstract conception of contract itself. From forms of contract . . . we pass to the relations of master and servant, leases, and future delivery of goods.

Sub-section A. Master and Servant. . . a man might well make a contract with another whom he hired for a year, or whom he contracted to serve for a year. . . example . . . In connection with this contract, it should be noted that Ubarru was regarded as a free agent, hiring himself out. But since he enters into a relation to his master in which he is temporarily in the condition of a slave, he has a representative, or guardian . . .


. . . In the case of a slave the name of the slave's father is never given. The slave is not regarded or spoken of as a man, but as a thing, and is reckoned in the same way as cattle. The actual point of this contract is the transfer of the right to a man's services. Such a transaction is but a part of the whole Babylonian system, whereby every credit or right was passed from one to another by means of contracts. . .


The law was very strict as to the beginning and termination of these contracts. . . If the servant did not appear, he could be arrested and brought to his master, as he was his master's man. ...

This species of . . . slavery was of great importance and very customary in Old Babylon.

Babylon('s) . . . commercial customs . . . became . . . the commercial law of the whole known world. Of . . . these Rome was . . . possessed from the earliest period . . . "


Does this sound like our modern (Admiralty) legal system?

You might want to read the whole piece at the link above.

I haven't read the Talmud yet, but I'm confident that the Sanhedrin part of it is, in principle, almost identical to the UCC. Why would anyone want to reinvent the wheel?

Hatha

Santa
3rd June 2012, 10:04 PM
Best post of the night. Learned something I'd already suspected.

Glass
3rd June 2012, 11:26 PM
yes, ancient historical irrelevant artifacts. I'm sure they are not the correct words but you get the gist. There is nothing irrelevant about them and I'm sure those that say so know better.

Hatha Sunahara
4th June 2012, 09:55 PM
The article at the link filled in some holes in my knowledge of history, and confirmed some connections I made on my own. For example, I made the connection between the Pharisees and the Babylonian Talmud. I suspected that the Jews taught this system to the Romans, and that is why there were so many slaves in Rome. I have also made a connection between the modern day Talmudic Rabbis and the Pharisees. If the UCC is from the Babylonian merchant law, then so is Admiralty Law. We have effectively in English speaking countries the equivalent of Talmudic law. This convinces me that I need to read the Sanhedrin part of the Talmud. If it is written in legalese, then the only way to learn its true meaning is with the help of someone who already knows. I am finding it fascinating how the legal profession is so similar to talmudic judaism. It's for the elite.

Hatha

Twisted Titan
5th June 2012, 02:52 AM
Free people own guns.......Slaves Don't.


The Cure to Talmudic Law.

JDRock
5th June 2012, 08:07 AM
"there is nothing new under the sun.." ecclesiastes

gunDriller
5th June 2012, 08:28 AM
I am finding it fascinating how the legal profession is so similar to talmudic judaism. It's for the elite.

Hatha


"Privatize the Profits, Socialize the Costs" -

"Privatize the Profits (for Jews), Socialize the Costs (for Gentiles)" -

corporate law protects their "right" to do this. and corporate law pays a lot better for young law grads with $100K in debt.

Carl
5th June 2012, 09:35 AM
Ah Capitalism, ain't it grand!

gunDriller
5th June 2012, 03:03 PM
Ah Capitalism, ain't it grand!

when young people badmouth capitalism, they are criticizing the Jewish version of Capitalism - without realizing the extent to which American capitalism is a form of Judeo-Fascist Capitalism. plus they are taught that any criticism of Jews constitutes anti-Semitism, which is not PC ... thereby placing the entire perspective in a Jew-controlled straitjacket.

Santa
5th June 2012, 03:48 PM
when young people badmouth capitalism, they are criticizing the Jewish version of Capitalism - without realizing the extent to which American capitalism is a form of Judeo-Fascist Capitalism. plus they are taught that any criticism of Jews constitutes anti-Semitism, which is not PC ... thereby placing the entire perspective in a Jew-controlled straitjacket.


What other version of capitalism is there in which to badmouth besides the American Judeo-Fascist version?

palani
5th June 2012, 04:06 PM
capitalism
1854, "condition of having capital;" from capital + -ism. Meaning "political/economic system which encourages capitalists" is recorded by 1877.

The word "capitalism" came into being in 1854.


socialism
1832, from Fr. socialisme or from social + -ism. Cf. socialist. Apparently first in reference to Robert Owen's communes. "Pierre Leroux (1797-1871), idealistic social reformer and Saint-Simonian publicist, expressly claims to be the originator of the word socialisme" [Klein]. The word begins to be used in French in the modern sense c.1835.

The word "socialism" came into being in 1832.

Capitalism was formed to counter socialism. Together they form a dipole by which to divide and conquer people. I have nothing to do with either concept.

Carl
5th June 2012, 04:36 PM
What other version of capitalism is there in which to badmouth besides the American Judeo-Fascist version?

+1 +1 +1 +1

That's it!

Free Enterprise YES!

Capitalism NO!

Capitalism and Socialism have the same source.

osoab
5th June 2012, 06:17 PM
+1 +1 +1 +1

That's it!

Free Enterprise YES!

Capitalism NO!

Capitalism and Socialism have the same source.

Alan Watt agrees.

Carl
5th June 2012, 07:01 PM
Alan Watt agrees. How do you figure that?

osoab
5th June 2012, 07:09 PM
How do you figure that?


He said it on his show this evening. I let rbn run on. He was discussing that you will always see Communism in conjunction with Capitalism. It is Capitalism that funds the Communists. Both are controlled systems.

Carl
5th June 2012, 07:24 PM
He said it on his show this evening. I let rbn run on. He was discussing that you will always see Communism in conjunction with Capitalism. It is Capitalism that funds the Communists. Both are controlled systems. OH, I googled the wrong Alan Watt!

I was trying to figure out how zen Buddhism and other assorted stuff like that played into it.....never mind..

osoab
5th June 2012, 07:28 PM
OH, I googled the wrong Alan Watt!

I was trying to figure out how zen Buddhism and other assorted stuff like that played into it.....never mind..

Cool. I just started listening to this. From 07

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgnOTZAo4y4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgnOTZAo4y4