miss holocaust survivor

[chad]

i don't know what to say.

-------------------------------------

http://forward.com/articles/158658/holocaust-beauty-pageant-held-for-survivors/

3040


A beauty pageant for Holocaust survivors was held in Haifa, Israel, and featured female survivors walking down a red carpet and sharing details of their travails during World War II.Fourteen women, aged 74 to 97, participated according to news reports. Romanian native Hava Hershkovitz, 79, was crowned the winner.

Organizers called the event a celebration of life (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/29/world/middleeast/holocaust-survivors-pageant-taps-into-a-conflict-in-israel.html?hp&gwh=3906974186B1642B43565184668A5B1F), but critics denounced it as trivializing the horrors of the Holocaust.
Shimon Sabag, who organized the event, said the 14 finalists had been chosen from hundreds of applicants based on their personal stories and later roles in their communities in Israel, according to the British Broadcasting Corporation.
“It’s not easy at this age to be in a beauty contest,” the silver-haired Hershkovitz said, according to the Associated Press. “But we’re all doing it to show that we’re still alive.”
Collete Avital, chairwoman of the umbrella group the Center of Organizations of Holocaust Survivors in Israel, said “”It sounds totally macabre to me,” according to the AP. “I am in favor of enriching lives, but a one-time pageant masquerading [survivors] with beautiful clothes is not what is going to make their lives more meaningful.”


Read more: http://forward.com/articles/158658/holocaust-beauty-pageant-held-for-survivors/#ixzz1zCGGwDl4

Read more: http://forward.com/articles/158658/holocaust-beauty-pageant-held-for-survivors/#ixzz1zCGDOsSN

[PatColo]

LOL. they should have a segment on 'Most compelling gas chamber escape fable' ;)

BTW your link(s) to the story have those tracking numbers tagged onto the end, beginning with the # sign- I always remove those b4 posting URLs which place them there.

[mamboni]

LOL. they should have a segment on 'Most compelling gas chamber escape fable' ;)


304330443043304430433044304330443043304430433044

[iOWNme]

This is great!

I have found a crown for the winner to wear......Take your pick:

http://www.juliaauctions.com/auctions/archived/firearms/mar01/web/408-415.jpg

[gunDriller]

there some great videos about the Holohoax available through

http://www.zioncrimefactory.com/

also
http://www.holocaustdenialvideos.com/


i don't like the name Holocaust Denial.

the Holo-hoax'ers fvcked up their Official Conspiracy Theory completely.

the original Hoax had an Auschwitz death toll of 4 Million. it is inconvenient when the museum curator goes on record and says that 1.1 Million died there.

there were 3.5 million Jews in occupied Europe at the beginning of WW2, and they were migrating to America at the rate of 3000 a day (1 Million a year) and to Palestine at the rate of 300 a day (100,000 per year).

if we say that that migration continued for a year, and then stopped, that leaves 2.4 million Jews max for Hitler to allegedly terrorize.


once these massive holes in the official Holohoax theory became apparent, the burden of proof fell upon those spinning the Fable to prove that anybody died in German internment camps, other than those killed by typhoid & malnutrition.

the best estimate of Jewish casualties that i've seen is 200,000, based partially on Census records, in Walter Sanning's book on the subject.


the various Holohoax museum curators admit that the Zyklon B and the gas chambers were originally for killing lice in the clothing of internees.


one of the videos in the database shows interviews with camp survivors. part of a huge database of interviews at the USC Shoah video project.

they describe enough of the camp to make it sound like Summer Camp - soccer games and tournaments, German-provided resources for theatrical productions (plays), movie nights, and, a swimming pool.

[beefsteak]

folks,
there are many of us who are not jewish that we know of, who believe this terrible attrocity not only occurred, but were absolutely unfathomable actions in the scope of tragedy and inhumanity to fellow human beings.

Add to that FACT, not just Jews were caught up in the tragic herding of humanity to deathcamps, but many who harbored their jewish neighbors, friends, even extended family were also slaughtered.
Said non-jews who lost their lives also have living family and bear witness to the reality of this horror. Don't hear many making a big deal about their losses while the disbelievers are also dancing on their graves.

Derisive and dismissive mirth about this dark chapter is not right!

It continues to sadden me to see such mirth at the expense of any genocidal behavior discussion. Remember, when "they come for you" there quite possibly will not be anyone left to speak up for your right to exist.


beefsteak

[mamboni]

8,000,000 European Jews survived the Holocaust (http://winstonsmithministryoftruth.blogspot.com/2011/07/8000000-european-jews-survived.html)


From an interview Norman Finkelstein gave in 2000:

"The official number of Holocaust survivors the Israeli government now gives is a million. Or 960,000, to be exact. At the same time Jewish organizations have been claiming, since the early '90s, that 10,000 die each month. So that would mean that in 1990 there were 2 million survivors left. In 1990, not more that a quarter could be alive from World War II. That means 8 million in May 1945. Well, there were fewer than 8 million Jews in all of Nazi-occupied Europe. In other words, if these numbers are correct, the Holocaust didn't happen. As my mother used to say, if everyone who claims to be a Holocaust survivor actually is one, who did Hitler kill?"

[beefsteak]

Mamboni,
as a primarily vocal hitler apologist, I respectfully seek to learn as to whether you are a member of any ethnic minority and have suffered any slings and arrows--or worse--from being so identified and attacked in the past or currently?


beefsteak

[mamboni]

Mamboni,
as a primarily vocal hitler apologist, I respectfully seek to learn as to whether you are a member of any ethnic minority and have suffered any slings and arrows--or worse--from being so identified and attacked in the past or currently?


beefsteak

No, I am an American , born and raised in the USA. However, I have been victimized by self-said "minorities" seeking to extract monies and guilt from me by telling amazing stories of personal suffering and persecution, stories utterly implausable, and demanding total credence on my part whilst offering not a whit of evidence or proof. I do not suffer such fakirs and opportunists kindly.

Elie Wiesel has be shown to be a fraud - he was never a prisoner of the Nazis. He has spent his entire adult life lying about this and bilking monies from his victims. So he is a fraud, con-artist and he has heaped disrespect and insult onto the sacred victims of the supposed Holocaust. Where is your outrage towards Elie Wiesel? You call me to task for merely discussing the Holocaust in less than reverent terms yet you have nothing to say about Elie Wiesel?

Speak to this matter directly and forthwit or shut your self-righteous piehole.

[mamboni]

folks,
there are many of us who are not jewish that we know of, who believe this terrible attrocity not only occurred, but were absolutely unfathomable actions in the scope of tragedy and inhumanity to fellow human beings.

Add to that FACT, not just Jews were caught up in the tragic herding of humanity to deathcamps, but many who harbored their jewish neighbors, friends, even extended family were also slaughtered.
Said non-jews who lost their lives also have living family and bear witness to the reality of this horror. Don't hear many making a big deal about their losses while dancing on their graves.

Derisive and dismissive mirth about this dark chapter is not right!

It continues to sadden me to see such mirth at the expense of any genocidal behavior discussion. Remember, when "they come for you" there quite possibly will not be anyone left to speak up for your right to exist.


beefsteak

You're so full of shit it's coming out of your ears. Take your strawman and shove it. BTW, I have never met or heard of a single non-Jew claiming to have survived the socalled death camps and telling or corroborating the tall tails told by the supposed Jewish survivors.

[beefsteak]

I'm not acquainted with the person to whom you refer, mamboni. Never read anything about this wiesel person.

I would abhor anyone who pretended to be one thing when they are infact, something else. It's happened to Americans by pretend americans, jews by pretend jews, military veterans by pretend military veterans, and Real Doctors such as yourself, and pretend doctors who aspire to your field and yet spent not one scintilla of time nor expense in going the legit route to become an M.D. I spare the pretenders no wrath, regardless of genre or field of fakery.

Doesn't mean I don't believe there are real American, real jews, and real veterans, and real M.D.'s. And real holocaust survivors, both Jewish and non-jewish.

How disagreeing with you publicly makes me a self-righteous piehole is beyond my comprehension. As a fellow American, I also exercise the right to disagree with you publicly or privately.

[mamboni]

I'm not acquainted with the person to whom you refer, mamboni. Never read anything about this wiesel person.

I would abhor anyone who pretended to be one thing when they are infact, something else. It's happened to Americans by pretend americans, jews by pretend jews, military veterans by pretend military veterans, and Real Doctors such as yourself, and pretend doctors who aspire to your field and yet spent not one scintilla of time nor expense in going the legit route to become an M.D. I spare the pretenders no wrath, regardless of genre or field of fakery.

Doesn't mean I don't believe there are real American, real jews, and real veterans, and real M.D.'s. And real holocaust survivors, both Jewish and non-jewish.

How disagreeing with you publicly makes me a self-righteous piehole is beyond my comprehension. As a fellow American, I also exercise the right to disagree with you publicly or privately.

You have never heard of Elie Wiesel?

I am stupified.

[PlatinumBlonde]

Derisive and dismissive mirth about this dark chapter is not right!

This is in reference to the idiots staging this abject and absurd 'beauty contest', right?

[Gaillo]

You're so full of shit it's coming out of your ears. Take your strawman and shove it....

3 days.

It's not the content, good Doctor, it's the delivery.

[beefsteak]

This is in reference to the idiots staging this abject and absurd 'beauty contest', right?

PB,
obviously the definition of beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder. Any woman who survived that unspeakable horror can wear whatever she wants, and parade anywhere she is invited to appear. No skin off my nose.

If I were an in situ observer, I would find it difficult to observe this parade, but not because of lack of beauty on the part of the women in the parade. Quite the contrary. I find courageous survivors beautiful in their own right. Old, young, or in between.


beefsteak

[Gaillo]

beefsteak,

If you don't mind me asking, why are you so convinced the holocaust actually DID occur as described? Also, which figure (if any) of the several conflicting numbers of Jewish dead do you think is the most accurate, and why?

[PlatinumBlonde]

PB,
obviously the definition of beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder. Any woman who survived that unspeakable horror can wear whatever she wants, and parade anywhere she is invited to appear. No skin off my nose.

If I were an in situ observer, I would find it difficult to observe this parade, but not because of lack of beauty on the part of the women in the parade. Quite the contrary. I find courageous survivors beautiful in their own right. Old, young, or in between.


beefsteak

I look askance at this inappropriate, crass and tasteless display. It has nothing to do with 'looks' whatsoever...

[PlatinumBlonde]

3 days.

It's not the content, good Doctor, it's the delivery.

I protest.

[Gaillo]

I protest.

You and everyone else these days.

Fuck this job! :(

[beefsteak]

Gaillo,
I have sat in the presence of survivor, Corrie Ten Boom as I stated earlier in another thread on this topic.

How does one explain to someone who "wasn't in attendance" the time when I was first introduced to Corrie what the "resonance of truth" from her lips and without guile does and did inside me, the listener? That unforgetable resonance has been subsequently supported by years and years of tremendous scrutiny and investigating by others in a places of power, to debunk her or trip her up on the details as to whether or not she spoke the truth.

In over 20 years after that introduction, to the best of my knowledge, NOTHING and NO ONE shook her witness nor contradicted her spoken word. I must go with what I personally know and have personally experienced. Corrie did not pass away until 1983. She was born in 1892.

It's that simple, Gaillo.

I do not have a deceased figure, sorry. I would have to defer to bean counters. And I frankly do not recall any longer the number Corrie believed to have died in the camps. She found utility in the eyes of her Nazi captors and due to that, her life was spared when she was "processed" into Ravensbruch, a detail she was not proud of and she did not gloss over in her subsequent autobiography, The Hiding Place.

A very gracious and believable survivor, may she rest in eternal peace.

Appreciate your tone in your inquiry, Gaillo. Thank you for treating my contrary sincerely held belief with respect.


beefsteak

[drafter]

beefsteak,

If you don't mind me asking, why are you so convinced the holocaust actually DID occur as described? Also, which figure (if any) of the several conflicting numbers of Jewish dead do you think is the most accurate, and why?

Good luck getting him to show the "math" because they know it just doesn't make sense. Instead, all they can do is appeal to the "sob story" side of things with maybe some pictures of some dead bodies thrown in for good measure, but do the "math"??? Nope, the numbers just don't add up. They can't allow people to apply logic. That's why they've managed to get laws in place around the world to make it a crime to even "question" the math because they know it'll never add up and the more time goes on the more preposterous their claims become.

[PlatinumBlonde]

You and everyone else these days.

Fuck this job! :(

I am sorry, sweetpea. Please don't be discouraged..

[Gaillo]

I am sorry, sweetpea. Please don't be discouraged..

There hasn't yet been a group of antagonistic forum members born who can "discourage" me! ;D

Still... fuck this job. Anyone who actually WANTS a position like this isn't right in the head.

[PlatinumBlonde]

There hasn't yet been a group of antagonistic forum members born who can "discourage" me! ;D

Still... fuck this job. Anyone who actually WANTS a position like this isn't right in the head.

Then maybe you ain't right in the head after all..

There's an an old Elizabeth Taylor saying that sorta may apply here--'pour yourself a drink, put some lipstick on and pull yourself together'.. I'll amend it for you though--have a beer, roll a fatty and take a break...Cheers!

[AndreaGail]

Good luck getting him to show the "math" because they know it just doesn't make sense. Instead, all they can do is appeal to the "sob story" side of things with maybe some pictures of some dead bodies thrown in for good measure, but do the "math"??? Nope, the numbers just don't add up. They can't allow people to apply logic. That's why they've managed to get laws in place around the world to make it a crime to even "question" the math because they know it'll never add up and the more time goes on the more preposterous their claims become.

Einstein doing "the math" upon hearing that they revised the total at Auschwitz :D

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQcXHMbD5X4-nirQXmbq8w2qtxdGbnJDsGxYXN0LlrlKN-KFHJc6Q

[Gaillo]

Then maybe you ain't right in the head after all..


Of THAT, there can be no question... although not for the reason cited. I never asked for or wanted this position, it was offered to me in the context of helping the forum I loved. I just didn't have the good sense at the time to turn it down! :(

[Santa]

Einstein doing "the math" upon hearing that they revised the total at Auschwitz :D

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQcXHMbD5X4-nirQXmbq8w2qtxdGbnJDsGxYXN0LlrlKN-KFHJc6Q

6,000,000 x 9/11 = all the gold in Fort Knox.

[Gaillo]

6,000,000 x 9/11 = all the gold in Fort Knox. All the slave labor on the planet

Fixed that for you.


Our rulers don't want gold... that's just a thing, a means to an end. They want ALL the minds and bodies on the planet bowing down to them and doing their bidding... or dead. I'm pretty sure I know WHY too... it's not because they are "pencil necked control freaks" like AJ rants about. They want medical immortality, and to achieve it they need TOTAL control of the world's resources and scientific minds.

[Gaillo]

Gaillo,
I have sat in the presence of survivor, Corrie Ten Boom as I stated earlier in another thread on this topic.

How does one explain to someone who "wasn't in attendance" the time when I was first introduced to Corrie what the "resonance of truth" from her lips and without guile does and did inside me, the listener? That unforgetable resonance has been subsequently supported by years and years of tremendous scrutiny and investigating by others in a places of power, to debunk her or trip her up on the details as to whether or not she spoke the truth.

In over 20 years after that introduction, to the best of my knowledge, NOTHING and NO ONE shook her witness nor contradicted her spoken word. I must go with what I personally know and have personally experienced. Corrie did not pass away until 1983. She was born in 1892.

It's that simple, Gaillo.

I do not have a deceased figure, sorry. I would have to defer to bean counters. And I frankly do not recall any longer the number Corrie believed to have died in the camps. She found utility in the eyes of her Nazi captors and due to that, her life was spared when she was "processed" into Ravensbruch, a detail she was not proud of and she did not gloss over in her subsequent autobiography, The Hiding Place.

A very gracious and believable survivor, may she rest in eternal peace.

Appreciate your tone in your inquiry, Gaillo. Thank you for treating my contrary sincerely held belief with respect.


beefsteak


Thank you for the polite and gentlemanly response.

OK... so if I'm reading this right, your ENTIRE basis for believing in what is arguably THE most important (in terms of the after-effects on the populations) historical event of the 20th century boils down to the anecdotal account of ONE survivor?

Just want to be certain I have this right...

[Santa]

Fixed that for you.


Our rulers don't want gold... that's just a thing, a means to an end. They want ALL the minds and bodies on the planet bowing down to them and doing their bidding... or dead. I'm pretty sure I know WHY too... it's not because they are "pencil necked control freaks" like AJ rants about. They want medical immortality, and to achieve it they need TOTAL control of the world's resources and scientific minds.

Wow! I totally agree with that assessment.

[Horn]

Not only that, but the Zionist jews wanted & want acting & hairstyle rights above all other non-zionist jews.

[chad]

go to germany, poland, etc. and visit multiple "death camps." stand in front of the ovens and look at them. actually do it. don't look on the internet at pictures, read books, etc. get yourself a plane ticket.

i have. twice.

then get back to me on how the official holocaust story is "all true."

[drafter]

go to germany, poland, etc. and visit multiple "death camps." stand in front of the ovens and look at them. actually do it. don't look on the internet at pictures, read books, etc. get yourself a plane ticket.

i have. twice.

then get back to me on how the official holocaust story is "all true."

That's another interesting point because Morticians have pretty much debunked the idea that any significant amount of people could have been efficiently disposed of in the camp crematoriums. They just didn't have the capacity or the operating efficiency to deal with anywhere close to the numbers thrown out there and that's even assuming unlimited fuel resources and 24/7 operation. Once again, "math" and "logic" fail to explain the official story.

[gunDriller]

forcing children to contemplate a grisly massacre that never occurred ?

showing them pictures of dead bodies, forcing them to imagine the death of 6 million such bodies.

telling them stories about human skin lampshades.


Holohoax Propaganda in the US School System = Child Abuse.

politically correct child abuse, but child abuse nonetheless.

[Horn]

I have never met or heard of a single non-Jew claiming to have survived the socalled death camps and telling or corroborating the tall tails told by the supposed Jewish survivors.

We are all non-jewish/jewish survivors & "Miss Holocausts" of recent Holocausts upon this & other threads.

http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?61909-Why-does-hot-water-freeze-faster-than-cold

[Horn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdefe7l7_Zc&feature=related

[PatColo]

beefsteak, it's only been a few years that I came around to the fraudulence of the Official Holocaust Narrative. Prior to that I was victim of the lifetime of "Holocaust" propaganda immersion, as you appear to be today. Now I claim the label, "Holohoax Survivor" (ref midnight rambler's reply 34 above). You have to study the work of the revisionists, who have been so persecuted & attempted-silenced, that the more likely truth of the OHN comes into focus.

From French revisionist Robert Faurison:

At the Nuremberg trial (1945-1946), a tribunal of the victors accused a defeated Germany notably


1) of having ordered and planned the physical extermination of the Jews of Europe;


2) of having, to that end, designed and used certain weapons of mass destruction, in particular those that it called “gas chambers”;


3) of having, essentially with those weapons but also through other means, caused the death of six million Jews.



In support of that threefold accusation, regularly taken up over the past sixty years by all the main communications media in the West, no proof capable of standing up to examination has been produced. Professor Robert Faurisson concluded in 1980:


“The alleged Hitlerite gas chambers and the alleged genocide of the Jews form one and the same historical lie, which has permitted a gigantic political and financial swindle whose main beneficiaries are the State of Israel and international Zionism and whose main victims are the German people – but not their leaders – and the Palestinian people in their entirety.”



In 2006 he maintains that conclusion in full. In nearly sixty years the revisionists, beginning with the Frenchmen Maurice Bardèche and Paul Rassinier, have accumulated, from the historical and scientific point of view, an impressive series of victories over their opponents. Twenty examples of such victories, running from 1951 to today, are given here.

more:
ROBERT FAURISSON: The Victories of Revisionism (http://robertfaurisson.blogspot.com/2006/12/victories-of-revisionism.html)

ROBERT FAURISSON: The Victories of Revisionism (continued) (http://robertfaurisson.blogspot.com/2011/09/victories-of-revisionism-continued.html)


free book collection:
http://vho.org/dl/ENG.html

It's most helpful when the awful truth of 9/11 comes into focus beyond a reasonable doubt,
Thread: The "Israel did 9/11" Thread (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?23130-The-quot-Israel-did-9-11-quot-Thread/page2)

...that lays the groundwork for the fact that Int'l organized Jewry does orchestrate these uber-hoaxes... also see
Thread: Introduction to the Holocaust™ Hoax (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?54461-Introduction-to-the-Holocaust%E2%84%A2-Hoax)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3c0PnRBZJk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3c0PnRBZJk



http://blog.balder.org/billeder-blog/Cartoon-Prison-Asked-For-Proof-Of-Six-Million-Dead-Cell-Block-Dees.jpg

"Truth does not fear investigation, Big Lies do!"

[PatColo]

forcing children to contemplate a grisly massacre that never occurred ?

showing them pictures of dead bodies, forcing them to imagine the death of 6 million such bodies.

telling them stories about human skin lampshades.


Holohoax Propaganda in the US School System = Child Abuse.

politically correct child abuse, but child abuse nonetheless.

They're still doing it today of course, WRT the Big Lie of the 21st Century,

Thread: C.E.L.L. - Denver’s Trauma-Based Mind Kontrol "Terror Museum" (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?61425-C-E-L-L-Denver%E2%80%99s-Trauma-Based-Mind-Kontrol-quot-Terror-Museum-quot)

[Neuro]

Ravensbrück was not a supposed death camp, so I can't see how Corrie Ten Boon's testimony could have convinced you that such an entity existed Beefsteak...

[beefsteak]

Gaillo,
You're welcome.

I believed you were asking for my starting point, aka the index case study if you please, when I became convinced of the reality of the Holocaust. I re-read your request and see that you didn't ask for my personal aegis. I own that my initial my perception of your question went through that personal filter.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything against their best truth filters. I'm simply and unshakeably stating what truth I believe about the Holocaust when I first came to believe this horrid historical event took place. Yes, with much loss of life, both jewish and non-jewish such as experienced by imprisoned Corrie Ten Boom, and her sister Betsie, and the rest of her non-jewish, Dutch family. And I credit the paradigm shift from curiousity about the Holocaust to absolutely convinced to the prior personal introduction to Corrie Ten Boom.

Since the day I became convinced of the reality of the Holocaust, I've found truth resonating in other affected jews and non-jews alike and their accounts, both in visual media and in written accounts. I've not been found in the seats of the scornful nor the skeptics since Corrie Ten Boom.

Neuro,
I don't rank concentration/death camps against each other. They were all part of the same death dealing roundup called the Holocaust. Many many jews and non-jews died while imprisoned in Ravensbruch. If I understand your rejoinder correctly, those who died at Ravensbruch don't count in the historical Holocaust narrative?

Now that is a head scratcher on my side of this screen.


beefsteak

[drafter]

I had releatives that survived the bombing of Dresden and nearly starved to death while trying to avoid allied bombs dropping on their heads. Yes people died from disease and malnutritian, but not in the numbers that the Holohoax crowd liked to stick to and not because of some great plan. If any thing it was the allies that created what folks like to call the "holocaust" thru their civilian bombing campaign. Does anybody really think that the camps were going to be catered to if Germany's own citizens were being starved to death? And lets not forget, the Germans just wanted them gone as in "out of their territory", but guess what? nobody else wanted them!!! So I wish they'd quit blaming Germans when the entire world didn't give a crap about the Jews! Gee wonder why? We're now seeing why.

The ship had rats. They just wanted the rats gone. Gee, wonder why nobody else wanted the rats on their ship? Does one just let the rats continue to scurry about the ship? No. You get rid of the rats. Then afterwards everybody cries "you killed all the rats!!". My answer would be "you didn't want the rats either, so what did you expect me to do? Feed and house the rats for the worlds benefit?" No thanks.

[PlatinumBlonde]

The ship had rats. They just wanted the rats gone. Gee, wonder why nobody else wanted the rats on their ship? Does one just let the rats continue to scurry about the ship? No. You get rid of the rats. Then afterwards everybody cries "you killed all the rats!!". My answer would be "you didn't want the rats either, so what did you expect me to do? Feed and house the rats for the worlds benefit?" No thanks.

Interesting and timely analogy. Whilst reading a Captain Cook biography recently I noticed that ships at that time always had cats on board.

We need cats..

[slowbell]

I've been to Auschwitz/Berkinau, I find it hard to believe folks find the holocaust hard to believe.

Also, the Kazimierz district in Krakow, Poland. Was a ghost town when I was there. Can't remember the numbers but a 100,000 Jewish folks lived happily there? Now, a few hundred. They never recouped after the war. The holocaust genocide is real, imo, from what I've seen. I am aware there's most like a lot of lies about it, too.

http://www.krakow-info.com/JewishQ.htm

[PlatinumBlonde]

I've been to Auschwitz/Berkinau, I find it hard to believe folks find the holocaust hard to believe.

Also, the Kazimierz district in Krakow, Poland. Was a ghost town when I was there. Can't remember the numbers but a 100,000 Jewish folks lived happily there? Now, a few hundred. They never recouped after the war. The holocaust genocide is real, imo, from what I've seen. I am aware there's most like a lot of lies about it, too.

http://www.krakow-info.com/JewishQ.htm

You do realize that Auswitz was rebuilt by the Soviets after the war, don't you?

[Norweger]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvtLQviQRqo

[gunDriller]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvtLQviQRqo

first she says that the Germans killed 5 Jews when a Jew committed suicide by grabbing the electrified barbed wire.

then, in front of Spielberg's cameras, she says - the Germans killed 100 Jews when a Jew committed suicide by grabbing the electrified barbed wire.

[Horn]

"Truth does not fear investigation, Big Lies do!"

They have to make it last at least 2 generations to get the full effect.

I don't know if its a big lie or a small one,
but they will not let it be forgot until they have epitomized the essence of it, in its entirety, apparently.

"Remember the Alamo" is not so big anymore these days.

[PatColo]

I had releatives that survived the bombing of Dresden and nearly starved to death while trying to avoid allied bombs dropping on their heads.

I had relatives that survived the Irish Holocaust when Brit troops were taking the Irish's abundant & diverse food supply at gunpoint, and leaving the Irish to starve.

Thread: Irish Holocaust ("famine") discussion podcast (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?60961-Irish-Holocaust-%28-quot-famine-quot-%29-discussion-podcast)


The Mass Graves of Ireland


http://www.irishholocaust.org/_/rsrc/1264372206102/home/map-button.jpg (http://www.irishholocaust.org/1024-map.gif?attredirects=0)


(Click Map Above)

Irishmen and Irishwomen!
Read this site and weep. Weep for the agonies and deaths of your people at the hands of genocidists. The authorities who imposed the curriculum, the teachers and professors who funneled it into you, have carefully kept you uninformed as to which British regiment, or that any regiment, murdered your people. Until now, that information was kept from you. You had no access to it. You do now - you read it on your computer screen! Commit the regiment's name to memory.

Never, ever, forget it!
Learn its British HQ town. As no Jewish person would ever refer to the "Jewish Oxygen Famine of 1939 - 1945", so no Irish person ought ever refer to the Irish Holocaust as a famine. Continue (http://www.irishholocaust.org/britain%27scoverup)



Page List:
Introduction (http://www.irishholocaust.org/home)
Britain's Cover Up (http://www.irishholocaust.org/britain%27scoverup)
The Food Removal (http://www.irishholocaust.org/thefoodremoval)
Voices in the Wilderness (http://www.irishholocaust.org/voicesinthewilderness)
Official British Intent (http://www.irishholocaust.org/officialbritishintent)
Toll of Holocaust (http://www.irishholocaust.org/tollofholocaust)
Complicity (http://www.irishholocaust.org/complicity)
What We Must Do (http://www.irishholocaust.org/whatwemustdo)
Lisnabinnia Memorial (http://www.irishholocaust.org/lisnabinniamemorial)
Liverpool, Great Hunger (http://www.irishholocaust.org/liverpoolandthegreat)
Sister Jean Marie (http://www.irishholocaust.org/sisterjeanmarie)
New Info (http://www.irishholocaust.org/newinfo)


Where's the taxpayer funded Irish Holocaust museums? And survivor-descendant beauty contests??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2TVn-zl9w4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2TVn-zl9w4

[beefsteak]

PatColo,

that which was perpetrated on our Irish ancestors was totally indefensible and unconscionable, as well. Until your reminder post just now, I'd never heard the term Holocaust expanded to include this genocidal historical reference. hmmmm...


beefsteak

[PatColo]

listen to the podcast in the OP here, Thread: Irish Holocaust ("famine") discussion podcast (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?60961-Irish-Holocaust-%28-quot-famine-quot-%29-discussion-podcast)

here's the direct MP3 D/L link: Download (http://k003.kiwi6.com/hotlink/nj1ynkm6r5/spingola_speaks_2012_05_07.mp3)

Fogarty explains that the Irish's use of the word 'holocaust' was documented, as neighbors would discover entire families dead in their homes, decaying bodies, and the neighbors would burn the houses down with corpses inside, cremating them, rather than risk illness caused by handling the corpses. They didn't have a word for this, so they used 'holocaust' because the word was found in the Bible.

Here's the MP3 for Fogarty's 2nd appearance a couple weeks later on Spingola's show, Download (http://k005.kiwi6.com/hotlink/48v7x3y9a8/spingola_speaks_2012_05_28.mp3)

[beefsteak]

PatColo,

Thanks for that history lesson and the links. I learned something new about my ancestry today. +1


beefsteak

[Twisted Titan]

Get back to me when you can spit out extermination numbers about The Holomodor

Don't know much?

Gee why is that?

[EE_]

Get back to me when you can spit out extermination numbers about The Holmodor

Don't know much?

Gee why is that?

I've searched for a Holodomor Museum to visit in the US...with no luck.
You would think with Christianity being the dominate religion in the US, there would be at least one museum to learn about the 10 to 30 million Christians that were killed in the Holodomor?

[Twisted Titan]

Maybe because Christians don't want to turn that atrocity into a money making cash cow.

[EE_]

I've been to Auschwitz/Berkinau, I find it hard to believe folks find the holocaust hard to believe.

Also, the Kazimierz district in Krakow, Poland. Was a ghost town when I was there. Can't remember the numbers but a 100,000 Jewish folks lived happily there? Now, a few hundred. They never recouped after the war. The holocaust genocide is real, imo, from what I've seen. I am aware there's most like a lot of lies about it, too.

http://www.krakow-info.com/JewishQ.htm

So many questions, so few answers allowed.

[PatColo]

I've searched for a Holodomor Museum to visit in the US...with no luck.
You would think with Christianity being the dominate religion in the US, there would be at least one museum to learn about the 10 to 30 million Christians that were killed in the Holodomor?

IMDB Keyword-search for titles tagged with:

nazi (http://www.imdb.com/find?q=nazi&s=kw) (1541 titles)
holocaust (http://www.imdb.com/find?q=holocaust&s=kw) (600 titles)
hitler (http://www.imdb.com/find?q=hitler&s=kw) (254 titles)

stalin (http://www.imdb.com/keyword/stalin/) (29 titles)
holodomor (http://www.imdb.com/keyword/holodomor/) (1 title - Under Jakob's Ladder (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1518825/) (2011))

::) (http://www.imdb.com/keyword/stalin/)


Where's the taxpayer funded Irish Holocaust museums? And survivor-descendant beauty contests??

For the talent portion, I submit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoplCjVc_CU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoplCjVc_CU

[AndreaGail]

I've searched for a Holodomor Museum to visit in the US...with no luck.
You would think with Christianity being the dominate religion in the US, there would be at least one museum to learn about the 10 to 30 million Christians that were killed in the Holodomor?


Instead we have these....(only france has more than us)

List of Holocaust memorials and museums in the United States
The Holocaust Memorial Museum of San Antonio[61](San Antonio, Texas, U.S.)
The Kennesaw State University Museum of History and Holocaust Education[62](Kennesaw, Georgia, U.S.)
The William Breman Jewish Heritage & Holocaust Museum[63] (Atlanta, Georgia, U.S.)
The Baltimore Holocaust Memorial,[64] (Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.)
The Dallas Holocaust Museum/Center for Education & Tolerance (Dallas, U.S.)
The Children's Holocaust Memorial and Paper Clip Project at Whitwell Middle School (Whitwell, Tennessee, U.S.)
The Cybrary of the Holocaust[65]
The Desert Holocaust Memorial (Palm Desert, California, U.S.)
The El Paso Holocaust Museum and Study Center,[66] (El Paso, Texas, U.S.)
The Florida Holocaust Museum (St. Petersburg, Florida, U.S.)
The Holocaust Awareness Museum and Education Center[67] (Philadelphia, PA, U.S.)
The Holocaust History Project
The Holocaust Memorial Center (Detroit, U.S.)
The Holocaust Memorial on Miami Beach (Miami Beach, U.S.)
The Holocaust Memorial at California Palace of the Legion of Honor (San Francisco,U.S.)
The Holocaust and Tolerance Museum (Chandler, Arizona, U.S.)
Illinois Holocaust Museum and Education Center (Skokie, Illinois, U.S.)
The Jewish Foundation for the Righteous[68]
Liberation (Holocaust memorial), bronze statue at New Jersey's Liberty State Park
The Museum of Tolerance (Los Angeles, U.S.)
The New England Holocaust Memorial (Boston, U.S.)
The New Mexico Holocaust & Intolerance Museum (Albuquerque, New Mexico, U.S.)
The Nizkor Project
Oregon Holocaust Memorial (Portland, Oregon)
The Simon Wiesenthal Center (Los Angeles, California, U.S.)
The Survivors of the Shoah Visual History Foundation at University of Southern California (Los Angeles)
The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum (Washington, D.C.)
The Virginia Holocaust Museum (Richmond, Virginia, USA)
Museum of Jewish Heritage (New York, New York, U.S.)
Holocaust Center of Northern California (San Francisco, California, U.S.)
Holocaust Museum Houston (Houston, Texas, U.S.)
Holocaust Memorial for the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania (Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, U.S.)
Holocaust Memorial (Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Holocaust_memorials_and_museums#United_Sta tes

[singular_me]

Fixed that for you.


Our rulers don't want gold... that's just a thing, a means to an end. They want ALL the minds and bodies on the planet bowing down to them and doing their bidding... or dead. I'm pretty sure I know WHY too... it's not because they are "pencil necked control freaks" like AJ rants about. They want medical immortality, and to achieve it they need TOTAL control of the world's resources and scientific minds.

yeah, people who think the return to sound money will fix everything, should ponder this.

We still have computer trading for example, and anybody could be sold phantom shares, which already total more than $6+billion in trade/daily. 180bn in fake trade monthly!! Well that video explaining this is already 5 years or so old, and it goes without saying that the situation has gotten a lot worst. But like I said, this is a mere but important side issue... and there are plenty of other ones to take into account. Unfortunately many into gold/silver are not conspiracy specialists. So they are going to get sucked in at some point too.

Now back to the thread: this miss holocaust thing is ludicrous and outrageous as the best.

[Neuro]

Gaillo,
You're welcome.

I believed you were asking for my starting point, aka the index case study if you please, when I became convinced of the reality of the Holocaust. I re-read your request and see that you didn't ask for my personal aegis. I own that my initial my perception of your question went through that personal filter.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything against their best truth filters. I'm simply and unshakeably stating what truth I believe about the Holocaust when I first came to believe this horrid historical event took place. Yes, with much loss of life, both jewish and non-jewish such as experienced by imprisoned Corrie Ten Boom, and her sister Betsie, and the rest of her non-jewish, Dutch family. And I credit the paradigm shift from curiousity about the Holocaust to absolutely convinced to the prior personal introduction to Corrie Ten Boom.

Since the day I became convinced of the reality of the Holocaust, I've found truth resonating in other affected jews and non-jews alike and their accounts, both in visual media and in written accounts. I've not been found in the seats of the scornful nor the skeptics since Corrie Ten Boom.

Neuro,
I don't rank concentration/death camps against each other. They were all part of the same death dealing roundup called the Holocaust. Many many jews and non-jews died while imprisoned in Ravensbruch. If I understand your rejoinder correctly, those who died at Ravensbruch don't count in the historical Holocaust narrative?

Now that is a head scratcher on my side of this screen.


beefsteak
Beefsteak, as I understand it, the majority of the deaths in the German concentration camps occurred towards the end of the war as Germany was depleted of resources, the infrastructure was destroyed, and a lot of Germans starved to death themselves. There were no "death camps", no gas chambers, no extermination agenda. Certainly I don't agree with putting mostly innocent people in concentration camps, but I don't buy into the horrors of the Nazi regime, that we have been force fed from the days we were born. IMO the crimes committed at the concentration camps pale in significance compared to the fire bombing of Tokyo and Dresden and the Nuclear bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. But the victorers write the history...

[Horn]

Anything that involves British persecution either gets muffled into enlightened revolution, or forgotten completely.

You guys should know this by now.

The key thing to remember is that we would be all be Indians in the mud without the interventions.

[Xizang]

All I can say is, I've seen a couple of those lampshades made out of Jewish skins. They make great Kosher lampshades and wallets!

[Gaillo]

All I can say is, I've seen a couple of those lampshades made out of Jewish skins. They make great Kosher lampshades and wallets!

Huh? ???

[PatColo]

listen to the podcast in the OP here, Thread: Irish Holocaust ("famine") discussion podcast (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?60961-Irish-Holocaust-%28-quot-famine-quot-%29-discussion-podcast)

here's the direct MP3 D/L link: Download (http://k003.kiwi6.com/hotlink/nj1ynkm6r5/spingola_speaks_2012_05_07.mp3)

Fogarty explains that the Irish's use of the word 'holocaust' was documented, as neighbors would discover entire families dead in their homes, decaying bodies, and the neighbors would burn the houses down with corpses inside, cremating them, rather than risk illness caused by handling the corpses. They didn't have a word for this, so they used 'holocaust' because the word was found in the Bible.

Here's the MP3 for Fogarty's 2nd appearance a couple weeks later on Spingola's show, Download (http://k005.kiwi6.com/hotlink/48v7x3y9a8/spingola_speaks_2012_05_28.mp3)

I re-listened to that 2nd Fogarty interview above. Beginning at 12:40 he cites 2 times where the word 'holocaust' was used in describing the Irish Genocide of 1845-1850 at the hands of the Brits,

1. Cork Examiner newspaper, 1847
2. book published in 1904, The Fall of Feudalism in Ireland (http://www.amazon.com/Fall-Feudalism-Ireland-Michael-Davitt/dp/1140093711/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8) by Michael Davitt

[Twisted Titan]

Beefsteak, as I understand it, the majority of the deaths in the German concentration camps occurred towards the end of the war as Germany was depleted of resources, the infrastructure was destroyed, and a lot of Germans starved to death themselves. There were no "death camps", no gas chambers, no extermination agenda. Certainly I don't agree with putting mostly innocent people in concentration camps, but I don't buy into the horrors of the Nazi regime, that we have been force fed from the days we were born. IMO the crimes committed at the concentration camps pale in significance compared to the fire bombing of Tokyo and Dresden and the Nuclear bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. But the victorers write the history...




History will be very kind to me ...for I intend to write it.

Winston Churchill

[beefsteak]

Neuro,
yours truly doesn't rank indefensible human atrocities against each other, anymore than I can rank concentration camps in a "which one is worse than......." heirarchy as articulated in my prior response to you. Chronological timelines aren't any help in a "what's worse ranking" modality, either. Chronological articulations are little more than fancy "he hit me first, Mom" embellishments in my way of thinking.

Fortunately, history books cannot replace the personal and corroborated witness of victims, be they Sandusky's attrocities, bombing of Japan in WWII, Hitler's initiated Holocaust, British orchestrated Irish potato "attack" or laboratory created AIDs, polio, swine flu, or or or........

I personally prefer corroborated survivor witness over historian penned textbooks, especially since a vetted 1st person introduction was the prior discussed aegis for me, personally. Dutch (non-Jew) Corrie Ten Boom is (was, may she continue to rest in peace) a corroborated Holocaust survivor, and wrote/spoke her own history, of which her predeceased sister--also a Ravensbruch detainee, can be found in her witness and her still available autobiography.

Ignore it. Attack it. Leave it out of history books. I don't care. I know what I believe, and what truth sounds like for me, and I have moved forward from that point of introduction on this topic and will not be disuaded.

Peace.


beefsteak

[PatColo]

beef: alleged "eye-witnesses" are the LEAST reliable of the hierarchy of evidence "quality".


Wednesday, 21 December 2011

No real evidence for the gas chambers, experts admit (http://winstonsmithministryoftruth.blogspot.com/2011/12/no-real-evidence-for-gas-chambers.html)




Many of the leading scholars of the Holocaust have stated on record, that
the actual evidence to prove the Nazis operated homicidal gas chambers,
is virtually non-existent. Following are a few of their admissions of this fact:




http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/e5be31a8a1b27982e9aa09400f1fb65b.jpg (http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/e5be31a8a1b27982e9aa09400f1fb65b.jpg)
Professor Arno J. Mayer, whose Jewish family fled Luxembourg
in 1940, wrote in his 1988 book Why Did the Heavens Not Darken:


"Sources for the study of the gas chambers are at once rare and unreliable."(A)





"Most of what is known is based on the depositions of Nazi officials and executioners at postwar trials and on the memory of survivors and bystanders. This testimony must be screened carefully, since it can be influenced by subjective factors of great complexity."(B)





"In the meantime, there is no denying the many contradictions, ambiguities, and errors in the existing sources."(C)




Why Did the Heavens Not Darken?: The "Final Solution" in History

By Arno J. Mayer. Pantheon Books (1990 edition) A. p.362 (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=tO2riAx_xSIC&q=%22Sources+for+the+study+of+the+gas+chambers+are +at+once+rare+and+unreliable.%22&dq=%22Sources+for+the+study+of+the+gas+chambers+ar e+at+once+rare+and+unreliable.%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=dTfyTs2FLsjX8QPNnJGpAQ&ved=0CFEQ6AEwBQ), B. p.362/3 (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=tO2riAx_xSIC&q=%22Most+of+what+is+known+is+based+on+the+deposit ions+of+Nazi+officials+and+executioners+at+postwar +trials+and+on+the%22&dq=%22Most+of+what+is+known+is+based+on+the+deposi tions+of+Nazi+officials+and+executioners+at+postwa r+trials+and+on+the%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=BDvyTriZAdT-8QOK262nAQ&ved=0CEEQ6AEwAg), C. p.363 (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=tO2riAx_xSIC&q=%22In+the+meantime,+there+is+no+denying+the+many +contradictions,%C2%A0ambiguities,+and+errors+in+t he+existing+sources.%22&dq=%22In+the+meantime,+there+is+no+denying+the+man y+contradictions,%C2%A0ambiguities,+and+errors+in+ the+existing+sources.%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=WTvyTp6kJYiE8gPom82xAQ&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAQ)



http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/fbcf9507d112ee8cc2ae3f8236601c55.jpg (http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/fbcf9507d112ee8cc2ae3f8236601c55.jpg)

Professor Raul Hilberg, author of The Destruction of the European Jews, the "standard work"
on the Holocaust, appeared as an expert witness at the 1985 trial of Revisionist Ernst Zundel,
during which Hilberg had the following exchange with Douglas Christie, Zundel's barrister:





"Can you give me one scientific report that shows the existence of gas chambers anywhere in Nazi-occupied territory?" defence counsel Doug Christie asked Hilberg in a day-long rapid fire of cross-examination.





"I am at a loss," Hilberg replied.





"You are (at a loss) because you can't," Christie said.





http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/36b768423959ddf0f7bb82636e604428.jpg (http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/36b768423959ddf0f7bb82636e604428.jpg)

The Montreal Gazette - Jan 19, 1985 - page 14 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GUUwAAAAIBAJ&sjid=pKUFAAAAIBAJ&dq=zundel%20hilberg&pg=4039%2C3484482)




Professor Raul Hilberg also stated in an interview shortly before his death in 2007:


"there was a Holocaust, which is, by the way,


more easily said than demonstrated."



Is There a New Anti-Semitism? A Conversation with Raul Hilberg

Logos Journal. Volume 6 - Issue one-two

RAUL HILBERG -- IS THERE A NEW ANTI-SEMITISM? A CONVERSATION WITH RAUL HILBERG -- LOGOS 6.1-2 WINTER-SPRING 2007 (http://www.logosjournal.com/issue_6.1-2/hilberg.htm)




http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/d4c19079deca95f4c99463a3ff58147c.jpg (http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/d4c19079deca95f4c99463a3ff58147c.jpg)
Professor of Architecture (but not an architect (http://winstonsmithministryoftruth.blogspot.com/2011/07/robert-jan-van-pelt-professor-of.html)) Robert Jan van Pelt, Jewish expert on Auschwitz, and expert witness at the 2000 Irving vs. Penguin & Lipstadt trial, was interviewed for The Toronto Star in December 2009:





(Interviewerhttp://teakdoor.com/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif "By allowing nature to take over the site (Auschwitz-Birkenau), do we run the risk of allowing humanity to forget what happened and set the stage for future questioning of the Holocaust?



(van Pelthttp://teakdoor.com/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif Ninety-nine per cent of what we know we do not actually have the physical evidence to prove . . . it has become part of our inherited knowledge."





A Case for Letting Nature Take Back Auschwitz


The Toronto Star - December 27, 2009

A case for letting nature take back Auschwitz - thestar.com (http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/article/742965--a-case-for-letting-nature-take-back-auschwitz)









http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-yCLBMyu53wc/TfbFTKMencI/AAAAAAAAC0I/_b4JrcPfUmk/s1600/Christopher_Browning%2B%25281%2529.jpg (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-yCLBMyu53wc/TfbFTKMencI/AAAAAAAAC0I/_b4JrcPfUmk/s1600/Christopher_Browning%2B%25281%2529.jpg)


Professor of Holocaust history Christopher Browning, was an expert defence witness in the Irving vs. Penguin & Lipstadt trial in 2000. In his report for trial he says documentary evidence for the gas chambers is "scant":



"In particular, the documentation of mass killing by shooting in the territories occupied by Germany after June 1941 is quite extensive, while documents relating to gassing in Poland is scant. For gassing, therefore, witness testimony and circumstantial evidence play a much larger role."







Evidence for the Implementation of the Final Solution:


Electronic Edition, by Browning, Christopher R.

III. Implementation of the Final Solution, 3.2

http://www.hdot.org/en/trial/defense/browning/003 (http://www.hdot.org/en/trial/defense/browning/003)




http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FESng2RdFOs/TdSrbtWE1_I/AAAAAAAACzs/J3BIknfNwiU/s320/_709517_judge300.jpg (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FESng2RdFOs/TdSrbtWE1_I/AAAAAAAACzs/J3BIknfNwiU/s1600/_709517_judge300.jpg)

Justice Gray, the judge at the 2000 Irving vs. Penguin & Lipstadt trial, made numerous (http://winstonsmithministryoftruth.blogspot.com/2011/05/judge-admits-evidence-for-auschwitz-is.html)
references during the trial and in his judgement, to the lack of evidence for gas chambers:


"The consequence of the absence of any overt documentary evidence of
gas chambers at these camps, coupled with the lack of archaeological evidence,



means that reliance has to be placed on eye witness and circumstantial evidence."




Judgment 6:80 (http://www.hdot.org/en/trial/judgement/06.15)

http://www.vho.org/tr/2003/4/Pressac.jpg (http://www.vho.org/tr/2003/4/Pressac.jpg)

Jean Claude-Pressac author of AUSCHWITZ: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers,


admits there is a complete lack of "indisputable" evidence for mass gassings at Auschwitz:



"In the absence of any “direct”, i.e. palpable, indisputable and evident proof (lacking so far as we know at present) such as a photograph of people killed by a toxic gas in an enclosed space that can be perfectly located and identified, or of a label on a Krematorium drawing of a “Gaskammer um Juden zu vergiften / gas chamber for poisoning Jews” an “indirect” proof may suffice and be valid. By “indirect”, proof, I mean a German document that does not state in black and white that a gas chamber is for HOMICIDAL purposes, but one containing evidence that logically it is impossible for it to be anything else."


AUSCHWITZ: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers, page 429 (http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/pressac/technique-and-operation/pressac0429.shtml)




http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/6e55396be753ec4d10e4ebf42e434d7f.jpg (http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/6e55396be753ec4d10e4ebf42e434d7f.jpg)The French historian Jacques Baynac, who stated:

"For the scientific historian a witness statement does not represent real history"

But nevertheless still believes the Nazis gassed Jews, wrote:




“it is necessary to recognize that the lack of traces involves the inability to
directly establish the reality of the existence of homicidal gas chambers.”


details (http://winstonsmithministryoftruth.blogspot.com/2011/05/orthodox-historian-admits-no-evidence.html)


(cont'd)

[PatColo]

(cont'd)


Well, we've still survivor testimony



http://www.ushmm.org/lcmedia/photo/lc/image/64/64045.jpg (http://www.ushmm.org/lcmedia/photo/lc/image/64/64045.jpg)
Prussian Jewish historian Samuel Gringauz, himself a camp survivor, and Chairman of the
Council of the Central Committee Of Liberated Jews In The American Zone of German.
Wrote in an 1950 issue of Jewish Social Studies about survivor testimonies:


"most of the memoirs and reports are full of preposterous verbosity, graphomanic exaggeration, dramatic effects, overestimated self-inflation, dilettante philosophizing, would-be lyricism, unchecked rumors, bias, partisan attacks and apologies."

source (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=kXO9wXvYuAQC&lpg=PA50&dq=are%20full%20of%20preposterous%20verbosity%2C%2 0graphomaniac%20exaggeration%2C%20dramatic%20effec ts%2C%20overestimated%20self-inflation%2C%20dilettante%20philosophizing%2C%20wo uld-be%20lyricism%2C%20unchecked%20rumors%2C%20bias%2C %20partisan%20attacks%20and%20apologies.&pg=PA50#v=onepage&q=%22most%20of%20the%20memoirs%20and%20reports%20a re%20full%20of%20preposterous%20verbosity,%20graph omanic%20exaggeration,%20dramatic%20effects,%20ove restimated%20self-inflation,%20dilettante%20philosophizing,%20would-be%20lyricism,%20unchecked%20rumors,%20bias,%20par tisan%20attacks%20and%20apologies.%22%20&f=false)



http://www.bobbickel.com/edfn520/section10/applications10c_files/image002.gif (http://www.bobbickel.com/edfn520/section10/applications10c_files/image002.gif)

A 1945 report requested by Eisenhower for the US Congress reads::


"Three classes or kinds of evidence were presented to us. (see link for first & second types)... The third kind of evidence was what may be called the common knowledge of the camp, that is to say, evidence of things done in the camp which were not done publicly but which, nevertheless, all prisoners were aware of. This is similar to certain knowledge possessed by prisoners generally in legitimate institutions like State penitentiaries. These prisoners, from custom and experience, from the conversation with the guards and among themselves, and from a very plain and almost mathematical kind of circumstantial evidence, have accurate knowledge of certain things which they have not actually seen with their own eyes. The prisoners at the camps speak about these things as though they had actually seen them. It was the unanimous opinion of our committee after talking to hundreds of prisoners that this third kind of evidence was often as accurate and reliable as the two kinds of direct evidence above referred to. An example of this kind of evidence will be found in that part of our report dealing with the torture chamber at Buchenwald, where no one actually saw the strangulations perpetrated in this chamber, but where the circumstantial evidence of it was so complete and clear as to leave no doubt in the mind of anyone."




Report of the Committee Requested by Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower through the Chief of Staff, Gen. George C. Marshall (http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1945/1945-05-15a.html)
to the Congress (http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1945/1945-05-15a.html) of the United States Relative to Atrocities and Other Conditions in Concentration Camps in Germany (http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1945/1945-05-15a.html)






http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/9bcd8fb4bb8eff0b07288584ff61d18e.jpg (http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/9bcd8fb4bb8eff0b07288584ff61d18e.jpg)

Gerald Reitlinger, the British Jew who wrote the first in-depth study of the Holocaust in 1953 wrote:





"A certain degree of reserve is necessary in handling all this material, and particularly this applies to the last section ("survivor narratives"). For instance, the evidence concerning the Polish death camps was mainly taken after the war by Polish State Commissions or by the Central Jewish Historical Commission of Poland. The hardy survivors who were examined were seldom educated men. Moreover, the Eastern European Jew is a natural rhetorician, speaking in flowery similes."





Gerald Reitlinger, The Final Solution (London: Sphere books, 1971 edition) p. 581 & also (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=RrNtAAAAMAAJ&q=%22the+Eastern+European+Jew+is+a+natural+rhetori cian,+speaking+in+flowery+similes.%22&dq=%22the+Eastern+European+Jew+is+a+natural+rhetor ician,+speaking+in+flowery+similes.%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=oVzyTq2COJC38gPFyrnAAQ&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAQ)







http://jwa.org/system/files/imagecache/scale_width_225px/mediaobjects/Dawidowcz-Lucy.jpg (http://jwa.org/system/files/imagecache/scale_width_225px/mediaobjects/Dawidowcz-Lucy.jpg)American Jewish holocaust historian and passionate Zionist, Lucy Dawidowicz,

wrote in her 1976 book A Holocaust Reader of survivor testimonies:


"Survivor accounts of critical events are typical of all testimony, that is, they are full of discrepancies. About all matters both trivial and significant, the evidence is nearly always in dispute. In part the unreliability of these accounts derives from imperfect observation and flawed memory, but in larger part from the circumstance that they are not constructed exclusively on the basis of firsthand experience. In order to present a coherent narrative, the author has likely included a large measure of hearsay, gossip, rumor, assumption, speculation, and hypothesis."








Lucy Dawidowicz, A Holocaust Reader. New Jersey: Behrman House. 1976. pp. 11 & 12. (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=f6mANvtapywC&lpg=PA11&dq=%22hearsay%2C%20gossip%2C%20rumor%2C%20assumpti on%2C%20speculation%2C%20and%20hypothesis.%22&pg=PA11#v=onepage&q=%22Survivor%20accounts%20of%20critical%22&f=false)








http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/2/28/PrimoLevi.gif (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/2/28/PrimoLevi.gif)



Primo Levi Italian Jewish Auschwitz survivor and acclaimed writer, wrote in a 1986:



"It is natural and obvious that the most substantial material for the reconstruction of truth about the camps is the memories of the survivors. Beyond the pity and indignation these recollections provoke, they should also be read with a critical eye. For knowledge of the Lagers (camps), the Lagers themselves were not always a good observation post: in the inhuman conditions to which they were subjected, the prisoners could barely acquire an overall vision of their universe. The prisoners; above all those who did not understand German, might not even know where in Europe their Lager was situated, having arrived after a slaughterous and tortuous journey in sealed boxcars. They did not know about the existence of other Lagers, even those only a few kilometers away. They did not know for whom they worked. They did not understand the significance of certain sudden changes in conditions, or of the mass transfers. Surrounded by death, the deportee was often in no position to evaluate the extent of the slaughter unfolding before his eyes. The companion who worked beside him today was gone by the morrow: he might be in the but next door, or erased from the world; there was no way to know. In short, the prisoner felt overwhelmed by a massive edifice of violence and menace but could not form for himself a representation of it because his eyes were fixed to the ground by every single minute's needs."






Primo Levi. The Drowned and the Saved. New York; Summit Books. (pb. 1989) page 16. (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=PXMRQSfWHasC&q=%22It+is+natural+and+obvious+that+the+most+subst antial+material+for+the+reconstruction+of+truth+ab out+the+camps+is+the+memories+of+the+survivors.+Be yond+the+pity+and+indignation+these+recollections+ provoke,+they+should+also+be+read+with+a+critical+ eye.%22&dq=%22It+is+natural+and+obvious+that+the+most+subs tantial+material+for+the+reconstruction+of+truth+a bout+the+camps+is+the+memories+of+the+survivors.+B eyond+the+pity+and+indignation+these+recollections +provoke,+they+should+also+be+read+with+a+critical +eye.%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=zl_yTs7bKoji8QORsJmuAQ&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAA)






http://www.interet-general.info/IMG/Raul-Hilberg-1.jpg (http://www.interet-general.info/IMG/Raul-Hilberg-1.jpg)

Raul Hilberg, the Don of holocaust studies said:


"A great percentage of the mistakes I discovered in

my own work, could be attributed to testimonies."


Norman Finkelstein. The Holocaust Industry (second edition). New York: Verso books. (pb. 2003) page 82 (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=VrqK5VdO2i0C&lpg=PA82&ots=53vu2oyQvo&dq=%22mistakes%20in%20my%20own%20work%20hilberg&pg=PA82#v=snippet&q=%22A%20great%20percentage%20of%20the%20mistakes% 20I%20discovered%20in%20my%20own%20work,%22&f=false)





http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/78964ee0decd0a4bc07637776bcf3bf1.jpg (http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/78964ee0decd0a4bc07637776bcf3bf1.jpg)


The much admired, and much despised (by Zionists), Jewish scholar, whose father
survived Auschwitz, and whose mother survived Majdanek; Norman Finkelstein wrote:



"The postwar German government provided compensation to Jews who had been in ghettos or camps. Many Jews fabricated their pasts to meet this eligibility requirement. "If everyone who claims to be a survivor actually is one," my mother used to exclaim, "who did Hitler kill?" Indeed, many scholars have cast doubt on the reliability of survivor testimony."






Norman Finkelstein. The Holocaust Industry (second edition). New York: Verso books. (pb. 2003) page 81 (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=VrqK5VdO2i0C&lpg=PA82&ots=53vu2oyQvo&dq=%22mistakes%20in%20my%20own%20work%20hilberg&pg=PA81#v=snippet&q=%22The%20postwar%20German%20government%20provide d%20compensation%20to%20Jews%20who%20had%20been%20 in%20ghettos%20or%20camps.%20Many%20Jews%20fabrica ted%20their%20pasts%20to%20meet%20this%20eligibili ty%20requirement.%22&f=false)



winstonsmith@theministryoftruth.ls1: No real evidence for the gas chambers, experts admit (http://winstonsmithministryoftruth.blogspot.com/2011/12/no-real-evidence-for-gas-chambers.html)




Download Free Holohoax Truth dissemination e-books at Free Downloads from VHO (http://vho.org/dl/ENG.html)

[Santa]

All I can say is, I've seen a couple of those lampshades made out of Jewish skins. They make great Kosher lampshades and wallets!

How do you know? Did you have the lamp shade tested for Jewish DNA? Maybe the lamp was made from rat skin...

[beefsteak]

PatColo,
Gunny,
Neuro,
Mamboni,
TT,
and all other GSUS Jew Haters/Hitler's Holocaust deniers,

I will not be dissuaded.

I find beauty in things other GSUSers don't, and horrified survivor pagented/parading.

What is the problem here? No room for my definite and different experience/resonance?

This started because I posted here that there is at least ONE on this forum who does accept/believe/state publicly that the Holocaust occurred, and does NOT appreciate the mirth/derision/ridicule by those that do not come nor share to this conclusion.

Peace.


beefsteak

[PlatinumBlonde]

PatColo,
Gunny,
Neuro,
Mamboni,
TT,
and all other GSUS Jew Haters/Hitler's Holocaust deniers,

I will not be dissuaded.

Peace.


beefsteak

Wow, you left me off that list..

On another note, resorting to name calling destroys your argument thus rendering it impossible to take you seriously from this point forward..

I will not be dissuaded either..

Good day.

[PatColo]

^^ dang these Holocaustian (http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/purim-special-from-esther-to-aipac-by-gilad-atzmon.html)-Zionist True Believers are impenetrable.

"Condemnation Before Investigation (http://vho.org/dl/ENG.html) is the Height of Ignorance." - attributed to Einstein

[Gaillo]

PatColo,
Gunny,
Neuro,
Mamboni,
TT,
and all other GSUS Jew Haters/Hitler's Holocaust deniers,

I will not be dissuaded.

I find beauty in things other GSUSers don't, and horrified survivor pagented/parading.

What is the problem here? No room for my definite and different experience/resonance?

This started because I posted here that there is at least ONE on this forum who does accept/believe/state publicly that the Holocaust occurred, and does NOT appreciate the mirth/derision/ridicule by those that do not come nor share to this conclusion.

Peace.


beefsteak

Good beefsteak,

I personally don't see it in black and white terms (either you believe or don't)... I prefer to continue gathering evidence and slowly forming my own "picture" of what happened over time.

My current picture:

6,000,000 - no fucking way! The historical evidence is CONCLUSIVE about this, even Auschwitz has "downgraded" their numbers.
Gas Chambers - evidence seems to be VERY sketchy, at best, about this.
Ovens - There seems to be insufficient crematoria facilities to deal with the supposed numbers of dead, in the time frame cited.
Concentration Camps - Definitely real, they existed. Their purpose is uncertain... work? Extermination? Resettlement depots?
Jewish Slave Labor - Definitely. The written accounts of Verner Von Braun, Albert Speer, Etc. leave very little doubt that this occurred in Germany and occupied territories.
Jewish skin lampshades, wallets, etc. - All information I've read on this has seemingly debunked the whole idea that this ever happened.
Polish firing squads - I have ZERO doubt that after the German invasion of Poland, large numbers of "locals" (both Jewish and non-Jewish) were rounded up and shot. Written SS records seem to indicate that women and children were included in the executions.

It was a time of war, and atrocities were committed on ALL sides. However, the "holocaust" in the form we read about in public schools and learn about watching Hollowwood movies seems to be WAY overblown when compared to the actual historical evidence. There is one thing I absolutely CAN be certain of though: however many died and by whatever means, the Jewish people are using this TO THE MAX as a pretext to pass speech silencing laws, justify the continued existence of Israhell, and shame Western nations into all kinds of punitive "restitutional" and pro-Jewish measures. From that standpoint, I'm firmly on the side of the Holohoax "deniers" - to be otherwise would be an affront to logic and historical integrity!

[Santa]

PatColo,
Gunny,
Neuro,
Mamboni,
TT,
and all other GSUS Jew Haters/Hitler's Holocaust deniers,

I will not be dissuaded.

I find beauty in things other GSUSers don't, and horrified survivor pagented/parading.

What is the problem here? No room for my definite and different experience/resonance?

This started because I posted here that there is at least ONE on this forum who does accept/believe/state publicly that the Holocaust occurred, and does NOT appreciate the mirth/derision/ridicule by those that do not come nor share to this conclusion.

Peace.


beefsteak

Beefsteak,

I don't hate Jews. What I hate are liars, slanderers and deceivers, and while I cannot say with absolute conviction exactly
what or how this subject went down, I can say evidence is mounting that official history has been tainted once again by lies, slander and deception. I think it's possible that Cory Ten Boom saw what she saw, from her perspective, which was, perhaps colored by her own psychological limitations.

I believe that you believe what you heard her say, and that she believed what she told you, but nevertheless, the whole of the story may prove to be otherwise.

[beefsteak]

Santa,

Let it be noted, we have a point of agreement. "Thou shalt not bear false witness" is one of the "biggies" right up there with "thou shalt not kill" in the 6 of the 10 commandments given by God to Moses. Those 6 teach us how to get along with each other. There are consequences attached to breaking them, in this life--consequences that cannot be avoided.

Corrie Ten Boom spoke from a prisoner herself perspective, as well as a prisoner employee by the captor Nazi's who employeed her as a statistician within the Ravensbruch, where she and her sister were incarcerated. She was hired at the point of registration / arrival. Her "secretarial logging" of the names, dates, times, etc., were part of what spared her life as a Dutch "jew sympathizer" which swept up her entire immediate family, leaving her the only remaining Holocaust detainee, when all was said and done. I cannot imagine a more loathsome assignment than registering for Nazi officialdom her beloved sister, Betsie's death. Yours truly would find that tough recordation.

Peace.


beefsteak

[Horn]

Stands to reason they would need on site crematoriums in such a dire situation.

Is there anything really more terrible than mass imprisonment within starvation conditions?

Holocaust is a savior to that.

Nazis would have been wise to negotiate terms at Normandy, but they were just as stupid as most any state is...

[Gaillo]

History will be very kind to me ...for I intend to write it.

Winston Churchill


I LOVE that quote! Almost as much as the Lady Astor exchange.

It's not often that TPTB give us such a keen bit of insight as to their modes of operation...

[osoab]

All I can say is, I've seen a couple of those lampshades made out of Jewish skins. They make great Kosher lampshades and wallets!


Huh? ???

Here's the proper response Gaillo.


http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/headbashwall.gif

[Neuro]

Neuro,
yours truly doesn't rank indefensible human atrocities against each other, anymore than I can rank concentration camps in a "which one is worse than......." heirarchy as articulated in my prior response to you. Chronological timelines aren't any help in a "what's worse ranking" modality, either. Chronological articulations are little more than fancy "he hit me first, Mom" embellishments in my way of thinking.

Fortunately, history books cannot replace the personal and corroborated witness of victims, be they Sandusky's attrocities, bombing of Japan in WWII, Hitler's initiated Holocaust, British orchestrated Irish potato "attack" or laboratory created AIDs, polio, swine flu, or or or........

I personally prefer corroborated survivor witness over historian penned textbooks, especially since a vetted 1st person introduction was the prior discussed aegis for me, personally. Dutch (non-Jew) Corrie Ten Boom is (was, may she continue to rest in peace) a corroborated Holocaust survivor, and wrote/spoke her own history, of which her predeceased sister--also a Ravensbruch detainee, can be found in her witness and her still available autobiography.

Ignore it. Attack it. Leave it out of history books. I don't care. I know what I believe, and what truth sounds like for me, and I have moved forward from that point of introduction on this topic and will not be disuaded.

Peace.


beefsteak
I haven't attacked nor ignored Corrie Ten Booms story. I have read about it a year or so ago, as you posted about it earlier. I have no problem acknowledging that a lot of atrocities were committed against largely innocent people, some officially sponsored some not, in Nazi Germany concentration camps. But this is not a unique occurrence, similar things have happened in many wars. However IMO the evidence does not add up to an official policy of attempting to exterminate a race... But that is what most people nowadays immediately associate the second world war with today. Not the terror bombing of innocent civilians in Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and to a lesser extent London, Hamburg, Coventry, Cologne, etc...

You are of course entitled to your beliefs. But don't you find it a bit odd, that there is no documentary evidence of a holocaust, apart from witness testimony (that often contradict each other)?

[Santa]

Powerful post, Neuro.

[Twisted Titan]

I dont like your opinion Beef but I will respect it.

It is just my hope that your beliefs surrounding this heated topic do not cause you to suspend your shrewd mental faculties to square with your percieved view of this matter.

Something is grossly out of proportion with the official story of the Holocaust.

I think we can both agree on that.

[PatColo]

When considering Ten Boom's story, bear in mind, there is no legitimate dispute between "Conventional Holocaust™ Narrative" (CH™N) advocates, and the WW2 revisionist historians who seek to illuminate the impossibility of that CH™N, that Jews were rounded up and interned in multiple camps.

But that's where their "common ground" ends. I haven't heard beefsteak say Ten Boom claimed *HOW* her relatives perished- in particular whether she claimed they perished in the Nazi's supposed "homicidal gas chambers", or by other more natural means (IE disease, starvation, old age, same as everyone outside the internment camps). If Ten Boom's story lies completely inside that "Jews interned" common ground, then her story is completely plausible (I have not researched her or her claims whatsoever).

Where the CH™N advocates and the revisionist historians part ways, is regarding these 3 core pillars of the CH™N dogma:


At the Nuremberg trial (1945-1946), a tribunal of the victors accused a defeated Germany notably

1) of having ordered and planned the physical extermination of the Jews of Europe;

2) of having, to that end, designed and used certain weapons of mass destruction, in particular those that it called “gas chambers”;

3) of having, essentially with those weapons but also through other means, caused the death of six million Jews.

In support of that threefold accusation, regularly taken up over the past sixty years by all the main communications media in the West, no proof capable of standing up to examination has been produced. Professor Robert Faurisson concluded in 1980:


“The alleged Hitlerite gas chambers and the alleged genocide of the Jews form one and the same historical lie, which has permitted a gigantic political and financial swindle whose main beneficiaries are the State of Israel and international Zionism and whose main victims are the German people – but not their leaders – and the Palestinian people in their entirety.”


In 2006 he maintains that conclusion in full. In nearly sixty years the revisionists, beginning with the Frenchmen Maurice Bardèche and Paul Rassinier, have accumulated, from the historical and scientific point of view, an impressive series of victories over their opponents. Twenty examples of such victories, running from 1951 to today, are given here.


more: http://robertfaurisson.blogspot.com/2006/12/victories-of-revisionism.html
Sept 2011 update: http://robertfaurisson.blogspot.com/2011/09/victories-of-revisionism-continued.html

So those 3 CH™N pillars above, while withering under the scrutiny of [not] squaring with forensic & circumstantial evidence, are evidenced soley & completely by [Jewish] "eye-witness accounts", for whom, if in their imagination they believe it, then it's "true":


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j30sWIOMIak

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j30sWIOMIak


Exclusive: Holocaust Faker Speaks Out (http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/US/story?id=6903068&page=1)
Movie and Book to Come Out of 13-Year Lie

By DAN HARRIS, BRIAN O'KEEFE and LEE FERRAN
Feb. 18, 2009

Oprah Winfrey (http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=6549181) called it the "greatest love story" she'd ever had on her show.

The love story was so touching, that Hollywood is even making a movie about it.

Herman Rosenblat received international attention for his tale about being a hungry little boy in a Nazi concentration camp who was thrown apples every day by a little girl named Roma, on the other side of the fence.

Years later, according to the story (http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=6537144), Rosenblat met that same girl on a blind date in New York City and proposed to her on the spot.

The only problem was, Rosenblat's story, which he and his wife had been telling for 13 years, was a lie (http://www.tnr.com/booksarts/story.html?id=f458c2c8-0d4f-4dc7-8cba-15e465c2201a&p=1).

Six weeks ago Holocaust scholars proved that it was physically impossible (http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=6537144) for prisoners to approach the fence at the concentration camp where Herman was kept and that Roma's family was actually 200 miles away at the time.

Today, for the first time, Rosenblat spoke out in an exclusive interview with "Good Morning America" to share his side of the story.

"It wasn't a lie," he told "GMA." "It was my imagination. And in my imagination, in my mind, I believed it. Even now, I believe it, that she was there and she threw the apple to me. ... In my imagination, it was true."

Rosenblat said he told the story to give people hope and to promote understanding about the Holocaust. His wife went along with the story because, as Rosenblat said, she "loved" him.

But even Rosenblat's son said his real motivation was money.

"It was always hurtful," Rosenblat's son Ken Rosenblat told The New Republic. "My father is a man who I don't know. ... I didn't agree with it. I didn't want anything to do with it."

"I can't respond to it," Rosenblat said of his son's comments. "I don't know why he said that. Maybe I'll ask him."

There certainly is money. The Rosenblats were offered both a movie and a book deal.

Before he was exposed, Rosenblat sold his memoir, "Angel at the Fence," to Berkley Books; the publishing company's deal was later canceled.

A children's book called "Angel Girl" was published in September, but was also pulled by its publishing company (http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=6547526).

Nevertheless, a reported $25 million film version of the fictional story called "Flower of the Fence" is going to proceed.

Harris Salomon, who is producing the film adaptation, is unperturbed that some Holocaust denier Web sites are using the story as an example of why people should not trust concentration camp survivors.

"And those Holocaust denier Web sites would perpetrate some other story if it wasn't Herman Rosenblat," Salomon told "GMA."

Now, as he stands to make a fortune peddling his story, Rosenblat is unrepentant, and would do it again.

Rosenblat told "GMA" it was the right thing to do and never thought he was not telling the truth.

"Even now, I believe it," he said.

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/...ory?id=6537144 (http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=6537144)

[PatColo]

Some info on the world's leading HoloHuxter, Elie Wiesel:



“Things are not that simple, Rebbe. Some events do take place but are not true; others are — although they never occurred.” – Elie Wiesel, The Legends of Our Time, p. 8 (http://tinyurl.com/6mzmcyl)

http://zioncrimefactory.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/ELIE-WIESEL-QUOTE.jpg (http://zioncrimefactory.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/ELIE-WIESEL-QUOTE.jpg)

In All Rivers Run to the Sea: Memoirs (Schocken Books, 1996, p. 74) (http://tinyurl.com/7b4vz3s), Elie Wiesel proclaims that his bizarre gas chamber cult is off-limits to investigators looking to verify the false claims that he, and his co-religionists, make, stating:

“Let the gas chambers remained closed to prying eyes, and to imagination.”


http://zioncrimefactory.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/ELIE-WIESEL-QUOTE-2-1024x554.jpg (http://zioncrimefactory.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/ELIE-WIESEL-QUOTE-2.jpg)



“Every Jew, somewhere in his being, should set apart a zone of hate — healthy, virile hate — for what the German personifies and for what persists in the German. To do otherwise would be a betrayal of the dead.” — Elie Wiesel, The Legends of Our Time (http://tinyurl.com/c885gmv)


http://zioncrimefactory.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/HATEMONGER-ELIE-WIESEL.jpg (http://zioncrimefactory.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/HATEMONGER-ELIE-WIESEL.jpg)

New “Elie Wiesel Cons The World” video (http://www.eliewieseltattoo.com/new-elie-wiesel-cons-the-world-video/)

6 mins:
http://vimeo.com/43374624

http://vimeo.com/43374624

Carolyn Yeager moved from the VOR radio network about a month ago, her latest podcasts (discussing mostly WW2 Germany & the holohoax) can be found now at
http://carolynyeager.net/

her Wiesel debunking site is http://www.eliewieseltattoo.com (http://www.eliewieseltattoo.com/)

[beefsteak]

You are of course entitled to your beliefs. But don't you find it a bit odd, that there is no documentary evidence of a holocaust, apart from witness testimony (that often contradict each other)?

Neuro,

I find this rejoinder of yours to be among the oddest statements I've ever read anywhere.

I would refer you to the 1964 book by Eric Berne, Games People Play*, written for the professional readership.

Wiki covers it briefly, including the "Yes, but...." game. Said transaction/game is a zero-sum game, where one must win at the expense of another, with said winner is characterized as White, and the loser Black, similar to the chess pieces' colors.

Yours truly has seen enough credible documentation post my introduction to Corrie Ten Boom to satisfy me, so I find nothing odd about the documentation I've thoughtfully examined. Well, I take that back...I do find it odd that anyone would seek to most-mortem fabricate stories about participation in such a horrific chapter in global history and make the false association claims which have since been sensationalized by Holocaust deniers.

I haven't a clue what non-survivor sourced documentation would satisfy you.

I'm stepping out of this dialog with you in particular, after the above "Yes, but..." rejoinder from you. I restate my consistent claim to my individual beliefs, truth testing, and resonance, which do not need validation from others to be held inviolate.

As I review this thread, there are many "Yes, but...." rejoinders it would appear.

Peace.


beefsteak

Somewhat of an overview of Games People Play
*http://www.speed-flanigan.com/article_games_people_play.html

[Neuro]

Unfortunately the world at large is going to continue giving proven liars and mythomaniacs such as Elie Wiesel and Herman Rosenblatt a pass with a pat on their back for a good job, while disregarding, slandering and jailing innocents like Ernst Zündel for digging up the truth through the propaganda.

Beefsteak, I am not a proponent of Hitler and National Socialism. Way to much authoritarianism for my taste. But the crimes they try to pin on them, the attempted extermination of the Jewish race. Gave a free pass for the real war crimes committed by the other authoritarian murderers of civilians in second world war. Rosenfeld, Churchill and Stalin. It is clear the Jews won the war, they write the history, and if you dissent you are jailed!

[Santa]

“Every Jew, somewhere in his being, should set apart a zone of hate — healthy, virile hate — for what the German personifies and for what persists in the German. To do otherwise would be a betrayal of the dead.”

Huh. I'm of German descent. Weasel can go back to hell.

[Neuro]

Neuro,

I find this rejoinder of yours to be among the oddest statements I've ever read anywhere.

I would refer you to the 1964 book by Eric Berne, Games People Play*, written for the professional readership.

Wiki covers it briefly, including the "Yes, but...." game. Said transaction/game is a zero-sum game, where one must win at the expense of another, with said winner is characterized as White, and the loser Black, similar to the chess pieces' colors.

Yours truly has seen enough credible documentation post my introduction to Corrie Ten Boom to satisfy me, so I find nothing odd about the documentation I've thoughtfully examined. Well, I take that back...I do find it odd that anyone would seek to most-mortem fabricate stories about participation in such a horrific chapter in global history and make the false association claims which have since been sensationalized by Holocaust deniers.

I haven't a clue what non-survivor sourced documentation would satisfy you.

I'm stepping out of this dialog with you in particular, after the above "Yes, but..." rejoinder from you. I restate my consistent claim to my individual beliefs, truth testing, and resonance, which do not need validation from others to be held inviolate.

As I review this thread, there are many "Yes, but...." rejoinders it would appear.

Peace.


beefsteak

Somewhat of an overview of Games People Play
*http://www.speed-flanigan.com/article_games_people_play.html
It seems like you read my post like Satan reads the bible, dear Beefsteak. I didn't say "Yes, but". I said you were entitled to your opinion, but since I think you are an intelligent person I encouraged you to research the lack of evidence re the "holocaus", beyond eyewitness accounts, which are often incredible, physically impossible, contradicted by facts, and in contradiction with other eyewitness accounts. If there were gas chambers for prisoners, why does the wall of the alleged gas chambers don't have elevated levels of cyanide, like the delousing chambers? Why did Rudolf Höss, the first in command at Auschwitz until 1944, admit to being responsible of 4 million deaths to his prosecutors at the Nürnberg trial. Why hasn't a single official document or recording from the Nazi government been found that outlines the extermination of the Jewish race? How did the Nazis despose of the millions of victims bodies, at the end of the war with no fuel available for defense purposes?

I have no reason to distrust Corries story, but it doesn't really amount to Holocaust does it? More like imprisonment of perceived enemies of the state?

[beefsteak]

this is just too funny to not share...
when I read this thread to Helen this morning, she laughed and quipped about this statement of Neuro's...


....you read my post like Satan reads the bible.

Helen: That's because he [satan] is a believer."

:D

Gotta love that dear wife of mine. Her version of a GSUS tweet. LOL


beefsteak

[Neuro]

this is just too funny to not share...
when I read this thread to Helen this morning, she laughed and quipped about this statement of Neuro's...



Helen: That's because he [satan] is a believer."

:D

Gotta love that dear wife of mine. Her version of a GSUS tweet. LOL


beefsteak
Great that you and your wife finds laughing matter in a quote taken out of its context. I guess you are not ready for a serious discussion!