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iOWNme
9th July 2012, 05:52 AM
60 Days In Prison And A $12,180 Fine For Hosting A Home Bible Study In Arizona


http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/60-days-in-prison-and-a-12180-for-hosting-a-home-bible-study-in-arizona


The war on home Bible studies and house churches is heating up again. Down in Phoenix, Arizona a man has been sentenced to 60 days in prison and has been fined $12,180 for hosting a Bible study in his home. Since 2005, Michael Salman and his wife have been hosting gatherings of about 15 or 20 people (http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/man-facing-jail-for-hosting-home-bible-study.html) where they share food, fellowship and discuss the Bible. Unfortunately, that kind of thing is against the law in Phoenix, Arizona apparently. At one point, nearly a dozen armed police officers raided their home (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2170007/Father-faces-60-days-bars-hosting-Bible-study-OWN-home-city-rules.html) and "evidence" of their "crimes" was gathered. Michael Salman was found guilty of 67 "code violations", and now he is going to be ripped away from his family and put in prison for two months. In addition, the assistant city prosecutor is asking the court (http://christiannews.net/arizona-preacher-facing-jail-time-for-holding-home-worship-meetings/) to "revoke his probation and convert it into a 2 1/2 year jail sentence since he continues to hold worship gatherings on his property despite court orders." This kind of case has the potential to have a huge "chilling effect" on home gatherings of all kinds all over the United States. You may be thinking that you are glad that this man is being put in prison because you aren't a Christian and you don't have any sympathy for Christians.

Well, what if you wanted to hold small gatherings in your home to discuss the U.S. Constitution?

Or what if you wanted to hold small gatherings in your home to play cards or watch football?

The U.S. Constitution guarantees "the right of the people peaceably to assemble", and when the constitutional rights of one person are under attack, it is an attack on all of us.
In America today, we actually do not own our homes and our properties. Instead, we are only allowed to use them in very, very narrowly-defined ways, and if we "rebel" against those rules the control freaks that run things will smack us hard.

A while back I wrote about how control freak bureaucrats all over the country are using "code violations" to force preppers back on to the grid (http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/all-over-america-government-control-freaks-are-forcing-preppers-back-on-to-the-grid). In some cases, they are even using "code violations" to force preppers completely off of their properties.

They want to run our lives, and if we do not live within the very narrow constraints that they define for us then they will send armed men to raid our homes.

So how did Michael Salman's problems start?

You can probably guess.

His "neighbors" complained about noise and "traffic congestion (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2170007/Father-faces-60-days-bars-hosting-Bible-study-OWN-home-city-rules.html)".
S
o that is how city officials got involved. We have become a nation of informers and tattlers, and this is another perfect example of that.

Michael Salman did have a big cross and a big sign outside his home, and in this situation that was rather foolish. Perhaps if he had kept a lower profile things would have been different. But it still does not excuse what authorities in Phoenix are doing to him.

People should be able to have small gatherings of friends and family in their own homes. If we can't do that, what do we have left?
And these days, just about everything is illegal (http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/19-signs-that-america-has-become-a-crazy-control-freak-nation-where-almost-everything-is-illegal) in America, so if you want to sick the authorities on your neighbors it is quite easy to do.
What is this nation turning into?

The implications of this story are staggering.

Over the past couple of decades, the number of "house churches" in the United States has absolutely exploded as an increasing number of Americans reject the big, institutional churches for one reason or another.

Now we are seeing a backlash against the home church movement.

Are we going to start to see authorities systematically coming after home Bible studies and house churches all over America?

Sadly, we have already seen quite a few examples of this. The following is one example from California (http://www.christianpost.com/news/calif-couple-will-face-further-500-fines-if-ignore-home-bible-study-ban-56253/)....

A Christian couple from Orange County, Calif., were fined earlier this month for holding Bible studies and for what city officials called “a regular gathering of more than three people” in their homes. They have now been told they face a $500 fine if they continue to hold their home Bible study gatherings.


Fortunately, authorities in that case have backed off at least for now after immense public pressure.

But this is just the beginning. Bible-believing Christians are now considered to be "outside the mainstream" and are being attacked in unprecedented ways.
For example, the head of Personhood USA (Keith Mason) had his home brutally vandalized after he was featured in a recent Newsweek article. When that article was posted on the website of The Daily Beast (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/02/personhood-leader-keith-mason-says-his-family-home-is-attacked.html), someone left a comment that contained his home address. Unfortunately, some very sick individuals decided to "pay a visit" to the home and hurled a boulder that destroyed the glass in his front door. In addition, they took red spray paint and painted cuss words and red coat hangers on his house and on his sidewalk.

The following is how this attack was described in a recent Newsweek article (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/02/personhood-leader-keith-mason-says-his-family-home-is-attacked.html)....

Mason says he was awake at the time of the attack. “I was in the basement, catching a movie and having a beer, to just chill,” Mason says. “I heard a loud noise and thought one of our kids had fallen down the stairs." Mason says he ran upstairs from the basement, then "ran through a bunch of glass" and "saw red." He describes the scene as "surreal—I didn’t know if it was blood on the glass or what. It turned out to be spray paint. There was red paint all over the side of our house. They spray-painted coat-hangers all over my sidewalk and door. We called 911. The police were there within three minutes.”


The family has moved from the home and they say that they have no plans to return.

This is what America is turning into.

Hate and anger are rising to unprecedented levels and it seems like psychopaths are running around everywhere (http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/20-signs-that-society-is-beaking-down-and-that-america-has-been-overrun-by-psychos).

I truly fear for the future of this nation.


Can you believe there was a time when men gave their lives fought and died for the Right to worship as you please. Now we have neighbors that will call the police on you because there were too many cars in the streets, or some noise.

INCREDIBLE.

I look around me everyday and i STILL cannot find any Americans i am supposed to fight and die for. Pathetic.

palani
9th July 2012, 06:18 AM
1) You don't want to be a corporation.
2) You don't want to live in a corporation (if that is even possible).
3) You don't want to SUPPORT corporations.
4) You don't want to fall into dishonor (argument).

I suspect the religious aspects are incidental. He might have been holding a weekly gathering of friends to watch football and gotten the same result.

Awoke
9th July 2012, 08:09 AM
Not a chance Palani. There are groups of people that get together every weekend to watch sports etc, and they never get this treatment.

This is just another attack on Christianity. This article is actually old, but still should be discussed.

palani
9th July 2012, 08:34 AM
Code enforcers don't specifically attack religion. They enforce rules.


enforcement officials told him that if he was going to hold worship gatherings on his property, it would be considered an “occupancy”

In case you don't recognize it this is an offer to contract. The response is critical. How you respond determines whether the legal system is going to detect a "quasi-contract".

You treat the notice as an offer and either 1) accept 2) reject 3) go silent or 4) counteroffer. (2) and (3) are dishonorable while (1) and (4) are honorable. With (2) and (3) when you head to hearing it is the dishonor that is punished.

A good counteroffer under (4) would be "Could you show me where I have authorized you to enforce commercial codes on my property?" Had he done this a new offer would have been forthcoming or they would have let him alone. This counteroffer has the effect of cancelling the original offer (just like a new bid at auction cancels the previous bid).

Maybe the guy didn't know this or maybe he wanted to be able to point to his fine and jail time as the extra measure of devotion to his religion. He didn't have to martyr himself though. It was his choice (ignorance is a choice too).

iOWNme
9th July 2012, 09:08 AM
Code enforcers don't specifically attack religion. They enforce rules.



In case you don't recognize it this is an offer to contract. The response is critical. How you respond determines whether the legal system is going to detect a "quasi-contract".

You treat the notice as an offer and either 1) accept 2) reject 3) go silent or 4) counteroffer. (2) and (3) are dishonorable while (1) and (4) are honorable. With (2) and (3) when you head to hearing it is the dishonor that is punished.

A good counteroffer under (4) would be "Could you show me where I have authorized you to enforce commercial codes on my property?" Had he done this a new offer would have been forthcoming or they would have let him alone. This counteroffer has the effect of cancelling the original offer (just like a new bid at auction cancels the previous bid).

Maybe the guy didn't know this or maybe he wanted to be able to point to his fine and jail time as the extra measure of devotion to his religion. He didn't have to martyr himself though. It was his choice (ignorance is a choice too).


And yet, the Police are in Dishonor for swearing an oath and breaking it. I notice you didnt mention that part Palani?

Awoke
9th July 2012, 09:11 AM
LOL Palani. They choose to druge up whatever rules they can, specifically to attack Christianity. Whatever rule they can think of.

gunDriller
9th July 2012, 10:11 AM
where are the attorneys who could attack the Phoenix Soviet with charges of breaching 3 supposedly key American freedoms ?

* freedom of speech
* freedom of assembly
* freedom of religion

Uncle Salty
9th July 2012, 10:35 AM
Not a chance Palani. There are groups of people that get together every weekend to watch sports etc, and they never get this treatment.

This is just another attack on Christianity. This article is actually old, but still should be discussed.

Agreed. But palani is correct in that once you consent to their offer, you are screwed because you acknowledged that they have jurisdiction, and once you do that, you are going to be guilty of violating their codes.

So the lesson is, learn how not to be in their jurisdiction and do not give consent to their offer to contract.

It is incumbent upon freedom loving individuals to learn how to stay free, because the .gov is not here to protect our freedoms.

palani
9th July 2012, 10:47 AM
And yet, the Police are in Dishonor for swearing an oath and breaking it. I notice you didnt mention that part Palani?


An oath is an offer. It needs to be accepted. Otherwise, as Lysander Spooner points out in Constitution of No Authority (going from memory .. I believe that is correct but you can check it yourself) ... the oath is spoken to the wind.

Policymen are corporate. They protect and serve CORPORATIONS. They have absolutely no duty to protect YOU and if given a chance will screw you royally every time with or without an oath.

palani
9th July 2012, 10:48 AM
LOL Palani. They choose to druge up whatever rules they can, specifically to attack Christianity. Whatever rule they can think of.
Not really. They rock and roll to prove their authority. It is up to you to decide whether their authority either applies to you or comes from you.

Religion isn't even on their horizon (unless you put up a nativity on the front lawn of the courthouse) or spray paint swastikas or burn crosses.

Awoke
9th July 2012, 10:51 AM
Like her?



http://xmb.stuffucanuse.com/xmb/image.php?&aid=1753&polce-break-woman-leg.jpg

palani
9th July 2012, 10:55 AM
Like her?
She's not bad though I prefer women with standard limbs rather than double jointed.

Awoke
9th July 2012, 11:01 AM
Tell me again how you stop police from beating and tazing you when they decide they want to?

palani
9th July 2012, 11:02 AM
Tell me again how you stop police from beating and tazing you when they decide they want to?
You could stop them in an instant by asking for mercy.

Awoke
9th July 2012, 11:08 AM
This guy asks for mercy:




www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfNxz6VLSOI

palani
9th July 2012, 11:14 AM
This guy asks for mercy:
Maybe it's me but I didn't see any beating in the video.

Awoke
9th July 2012, 11:17 AM
Shit. Youtube is blocked here and I can;t watch the vid, so I took a gamble and posted it based on the description.



Road Rage by Cop Part 3: Watch man beg police to stop beating ... (http://gold-silver.us/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=begs%20police%20to%20stop&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CE0QtwIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DNfN xz6VLSOI&ei=bx37T7CjGaXe0QGNoJXtBg&usg=AFQjCNFPeV5117TCzxrYbjShzHckToZ3og)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfNxz6VLSOI
Cops neglected to call for ambulance after Jackson, MI cops tased him 5 times for 23 seconds times 19 pulses ...

EDIT to add that this is part 3. Maybe later I can find part 1 and 2. I really was taking a gamble on that post.

palani
9th July 2012, 11:34 AM
Maybe later I can find part 1 and 2. I really was taking a gamble on that post.
I expect you will be able to find examples where pure animal rage exceeds a policy-man's ability to reason. If you ask for mercy and they don't agree to YOUR offer (going silent being dishonorable) then seal the contract by reciting the following:


Psalm 13:5
But I have trusted in thy mercy; my heart shall rejoice in thy salvation.

Best to memorize that one.

Awoke
9th July 2012, 11:41 AM
Seriously? Quote a Psalm to a 'roid-raging active gang member, who also likely happens to be a member of the freemasonic cult?

Futile.

However you did touch on the crux of the issue: The animal rage that exceeds the policy-man's ability to reason. That is what I am always talking about when you and I get into these "back and forths" about engaging in contracts and all that stuff.

They are unreasonable, controlling, psychopathic bullies for the most part. That is all I want to get across when I argue with you about this stuff: When the animal rage that exceeds the policy-man's ability to reason, the options to negotiate or even escape harm evaporate instantly. You're fucked at that point.

palani
9th July 2012, 12:01 PM
They are unreasonable, controlling, psychopathic bullies for the most part.

Believe it or not quite a few policy-men have a gut feeling about when they have cemented their jurisdiction. I doubt if they recognize it as contract although it undoubtedly is. If you ask for mercy and they don't agree (keep on feeding you buckwheats) but they go silent on your offer then you have a contract. They have to apply the same rules to their conduct as they apply to yours. What you do afterwards to complain about lack of specific performance is up to you. Personally I would hope they had a jet ski because I always wanted one, but I would settle for a cabin cruiser, house, auto, RV or practically anything (and everything) they own.

Awoke
9th July 2012, 12:36 PM
And how would you collect on the jetski and everything else they own?

palani
9th July 2012, 02:24 PM
And how would you collect on the jetski and everything else they own?

Administrative process. You enforce your contracts the same way they enforce theirs. It is the same system for everyone.

Why do you suppose North Carolina coppicemen were advised to not keep property in their own name?

They are not government employees performing public service so have no immunity. They are private for profit enterprises.

Osiris
9th July 2012, 03:36 PM
Talking to my immediate family about this is infuriating! They are so concerned with how annoying it would be if there were a bunch of cars parked out front of their house for a couple hours once a week. Wtf do they care? I get if there was someone parked in front of your driveway or some kind of vandalism but wtf do you care otherwise? drives me crazy that they don't see the big picture.

iOWNme
10th July 2012, 05:41 AM
Talking to my immediate family about this is infuriating! They are so concerned with how annoying it would be if there were a bunch of cars parked out front of their house for a couple hours once a week. Wtf do they care? I get if there was someone parked in front of your driveway or some kind of vandalism but wtf do you care otherwise? drives me crazy that they don't see the big picture.

This is classical conditioning. They change the argument from a 1st amendment issue into a wedge issue like 'I dont want cars on my street'. These same people will be OUTRAGED once they find out this whole thing is set up to require a permit to have a birthday party for your 8 year old daughter. Then, they will complain about how Government is out of control, and how it just isnt fair.

Skirnir_
10th July 2012, 06:48 AM
This is classical conditioning. They change the argument from a 1st amendment issue into a wedge issue like 'I dont want cars on my street'. These same people will be OUTRAGED once they find out this whole thing is set up to require a permit to have a birthday party for your 8 year old daughter. Then, they will complain about how Government is out of control, and how it just isnt fair.

Most people are myopic, facile cunts who cannot think beyond the present. Machiavelli likely detected this in The Prince when he said that that they are 'wicked and deceitful' by nature, not unlike Li Si, a favourite of mine.

JDRock
10th July 2012, 07:26 AM
This is classical conditioning. They change the argument from a 1st amendment issue into a wedge issue like 'I dont want cars on my street'. These same people will be OUTRAGED once they find out this whole thing is set up to require a permit to have a birthday party for your 8 year old daughter. Then, they will complain about how Government is out of control, and how it just isnt fair.


we have a winner folks!

gunDriller
10th July 2012, 07:42 AM
Talking to my immediate family about this is infuriating! They are so concerned with how annoying it would be if there were a bunch of cars parked out front of their house for a couple hours once a week. Wtf do they care? I get if there was someone parked in front of your driveway or some kind of vandalism but wtf do you care otherwise? drives me crazy that they don't see the big picture.

sounds like NIMBY'ism is one of the forces tearing apart the Constitution.