By By no sales tax when buying on the interweb.

[Dogman]

They are starting to collect e-sales tax here soon, and if they get their way all of us will be paying a sales tax for everything bought on the net.

States, Congress rallying for an e-sales tax
By Amrita Jayakumar, Published: July 8
Online shopping in the Washington region is about to become more expensive.
A wave of states, including Virginia, have passed laws that will require consumers to pay sales tax on all Internet purchases as soon as next year. Other states and the District are pursuing similar measures. And in Maryland, Gov. Martin O’Malley (D) wants to go further (http://mlis.state.md.us/2012rs/billfile/sb0152.htm)and levy a tax on songs and other digital products bought through popular sources such as iTunes.

'snip'- The rest of the story at the link!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/states-congress-rallying-for-an-e-sales-tax/2012/07/08/gJQACKtpWW_story.html

[madfranks]

This is no small task, to attempt to collect taxes on internet sales. Imagine how much bureaucracy it will take to oversee and monitor internet sales, and ensure that the proper taxes have been paid. I imagine it would take tens of thousands of people to oversee all of the transactions on the internet. If a federal sales tax is levied on internet sales, watch for the IRS to start hiring thousands and thousands of new enforcers.

[Dogman]

This is no small task, to attempt to collect taxes on internet sales. Imagine how much bureaucracy it will take to oversee and monitor internet sales, and ensure that the proper taxes have been paid. I imagine it would take tens of thousands of people to oversee all of the transactions on the internet. If a federal sales tax is levied on internet sales, watch for the IRS to start hiring thousands and thousands of new enforcers. Agree it would be a nightmare to enforce. But as sure as god made little green apples, they are going to try. Wonder if there are accounting programs out there that can keep track of who is who, and what state so checks can be cut?

[vacuum]

They'll just decree the need for a new web 2.0 architecture where purchases can be properly tracked. It will cost $200 billion, however, it is expected it will bring in $600 billion in revenue over the next 10 years.

[FreeEnergy]

It would not be a nightmare to enforce. Au contraire.

What happens is that someone reports expenses to State tax agency, such as some gov or educational agency, school etc. This gets recorded into a State computer. State automatically mails out a form "you have sold products in our state, REGISTER AND PAY UP".

I'm sure they can come up with a way to enforce this too.

I'm sure this will also start a game of smaller entities registering offshore business locations plus a billing PO Boxes to avoid being raped to oblivion.

The BS starts right here:


Bricks-and-mortar retailers are cheering the moves. For years, their online rivals have resisted charging sales tax, giving them a price advantage.

Priceless, so BandM didn't have a price advantage buying volume? And having customers walk in the door?

What is a guy with a website, an effing competition to Walmarts and Sears? Right, this only shows incompetence or inability to hire top talent of the latter.

[Sparky]

Am I the only one who thinks it doesn't make sense that internet sales are tax exempt? What's the rationale for this?

[Uncle Salty]

It would not be a nightmare to enforce. Au contraire.


Great. So every quarter, as a business owner, I need to file with 50 different states and send out 50 different payments.

And all these articles always talk about how much revenue is generated for the state. What they don't say, is that all that revenue is now not being spent by individuals.

So, a state may raise $500 million, but its residents are $500 million poorer.

[midnight rambler]

Am I the only one who thinks it doesn't make sense that internet sales are tax exempt? What's the rationale for this?

Are you a collectivist??

Some of us (who are foreign to D.C. and its territories) are tax exempt. Why should those of us who are tax exempt pay those taxes?? Would you force us (lethal force??) to join your religion/'church' (belief system)??

[midnight rambler]

Great. So every quarter, as a business owner, I need to file with 50 different states and send out 50 different payments.

And of course you will be compelled to volunteer your services, and naturally without any compensation whatsoever. lol Welcome to the Soviet system.

[Sparky]

Are you a collectivist??

Some of us (who are foreign to D.C. and its territories) are tax exempt. Why should those of us who are tax exempt pay those taxes?? Would you force us (lethal force??) to join your religion/'church' (belief system)??

What? I'll ask it again: What difference should it make to taxability whether you purchase something online or in person? You need to explain what you mean by "those of us who are tax exempt".

[Shami-Amourae]

Bitcoin sounds nice, huh?

Jeez.

:(

[midnight rambler]

What? I'll ask it again: What difference should it make to taxability whether you purchase something online or in person? You need to explain what you mean by "those of us who are tax exempt".

I mean exactly that - those of us who are foreign to D.C. and its territories are tax exempt.

Are you anosognosic??

[chad]

Bitcoin sounds nice, huh?

Jeez.

:(

no online vendor i now of takes bitcoins.

[BabushkaLady]

Am I the only one who thinks it doesn't make sense that internet sales are tax exempt? What's the rationale for this?

I don't believe in any taxes and I don't order online . . . but this is my opinion:

Jack opens a brick and mortar business in NH, the live free or die state . . . He doesn't pay or collect sales tax. He then begins to sell via the net. All of a sudden, desperate states want him to act as collection agency for their bloated budget problems?

Jill lives in Taxachusetts and thinks everyone should pay high taxes and support the system.

Let the states deal with their self-created budget problem and let the people make their own choices of where to live and buy.

FYI: Fives states don't have any state sales tax; AK, DE, MT, NH, OR.

[FreeEnergy]

Am I the only one who thinks it doesn't make sense that internet sales are tax exempt? What's the rationale for this?

adding to the explanations above.

"Am I the only one who thinks that everyone in Massachusetts should be double-taxed?"

This is your rationale turned around at ya, socialist.

First off, some states started collecting local taxes on local businesses during previous great depression. Naturally, being bureaucrats and socialists, they do not abolish these and just keep expanding their own budgets.

Second, you pick the state you live in.

Third, no, your Taxachusetts has NO JURISDICTION collecting taxes where I am at. So your state's rationale behind this is what? "Lets make federal government force small businesses collect sales taxes outside Taxachusetts and send checks to us"?

4. Did you know that Taxifornia has different sales taxes not uniform , but differ by county? someone has mentioned small businesses now have to figure out 50 more taxes? NO, it is actually hundreds, because of counties in CA. You believe small businesses are equipped to do that? No. Thousands will go bankrupt or underwater. Your kleptocrats obviously don't care.

[FreeEnergy]

Let me post a couple of charts. First one is small business profits. Second one , straight up, is corporate profits after tax . Do you still think small online businesses should be taxed?

[vacuum]

What? I'll ask it again: What difference should it make to taxability whether you purchase something online or in person? You need to explain what you mean by "those of us who are tax exempt".

There's a huge difference. In general, the idea is that we have to pay taxes to the state when we do business because the state facilitates it through creating an environment to make it possible.

For a brick and mortar store, the state has made sure that the employees are getting paid a fair wage, that there are utilities provided on site, that the area is zoned properly, that crime is low which allows people to travel to and from the business, that there is recourse for theft on the part of either party, that claims made about products are true, that the products are safe and if someone gets injured there is recourse, etc, etc.

For online sales, all the state has to do is make sure the mail gets delivered.

[Mouse]

There's a huge difference. In general, the idea is that we have to pay taxes to the state when we do business because the state facilitates it through creating an environment to make it possible.

For a brick and mortar store, the state has made sure that the employees are getting paid a fair wage According to whom?, that there are utilities provided on site To benefit the business on the site - the business can pay for it's own mains connection and water and will, that the area is zoned properly For who's benefit and why?, that crime is low Is it? which allows people to travel to and from the business So there are roads to benefit the business, that we have to pay for, to benefit the business?, that there is recourse for theft on the part of either party WTF you talking about Willis? Get insurance, they have it, that claims made about products are true Are they now? and the Fed's patrol that water, your state sales tax has nothing to do with fairness in marketing, that the products are safe Are they now? Again, your state has nothing to do with that and your sales taxes don't pay for it and if someone gets injured there is recourse To whom? Your sales taxes have nothing to do with that. The lawyers and companies and insurers deal with it and those costs are embedded in product price before you even bought it, etc, etc. Etc, infinity.

For online sales, all the state has to do is make sure the mail gets delivered.

By your definition, Sir, all sales taxes should be immediately abolished. :)

[Skirnir_]

By your definition, Sir, all sales taxes should be immediately abolished. :)


...and how splendid that would be. I cannot avoid all tax (e.g. sales, auto insurance), but when I do, I turn around and take it back through the welfare system. The more one take from the coffers of the state, the better a libertarian one is.

[Neuro]

Wait for the "alien" attack and everyone will be relieved to pay a global sales tax to pay for "defense" of mother earth, a proportion of the tax will go back to the local governments of the citizens that bought the goods, if they "behave"...

[V10Silver]

I don't believe in any taxes and I don't order online . . . but this is my opinion:

Jack opens a brick and mortar business in NH, the live free or die .....

FYI: Fives states don't have any state sales tax; AK, DE, MT, NH, OR.


Being from the great state of New Hampshire, We also don't have an INCOME Tax. We have the largest state legislature where they get paid a whole $100.00 a year. Other states need to take note and learn.

[sirgonzo420]

no online vendor i now of takes bitcoins.

You can spend bitcoins anywhere. There are services out there that make it easy to spend bitcoin, and the merchant receives USD.

[madfranks]

They'll just decree the need for a new web 2.0 architecture where purchases can be properly tracked. It will cost $200 billion, however, it is expected it will bring in $600 billion in revenue over the next 10 years.

But it's the WORLD wide web, not the United States of America web. They don't have sufficient means to shut down the whole internet and build a new one.

[Sparky]

There's a huge difference. In general, the idea is that we have to pay taxes to the state when we do business because the state facilitates it through creating an environment to make it possible.

For a brick and mortar store, the state has made sure that the employees are getting paid a fair wage, that there are utilities provided on site, that the area is zoned properly, that crime is low which allows people to travel to and from the business, that there is recourse for theft on the part of either party, that claims made about products are true, that the products are safe and if someone gets injured there is recourse, etc, etc.

For online sales, all the state has to do is make sure the mail gets delivered.

Most of the things you have listed are beneficial to the customer, but a burden for the employer. So the reward of the brick-and-mortar store, for jumping through all these hoops, is that it gets put at a price disadvantage to its internet counterparts. Why is that fair?

As the playing field gets tilted, their will be fewer and fewer brick-and-mortar stores. Think how many people go to these stores to see the actual products, then purchase them online.

[Sparky]

I mean exactly that - those of us who are foreign to D.C. and its territories are tax exempt.

Are you anosognosic??

I don't think I'm anosognosic, so much as you are being vague. What is "foreign to D.C."? Do you mean foreign to the U.S.? I live in Massachusetts; does that make me foreign to D.C.? What territories does D.C. have? Do you mean U.S. states?

Regardless, do you think the personal impact on you is the determinant to what is fair?

[Sparky]

Are you a collectivist??

Some of us (who are foreign to D.C. and its territories) are tax exempt. Why should those of us who are tax exempt pay those taxes?? Would you force us (lethal force??) to join your religion/'church' (belief system)??

I wouldn't force you to join my religion, but if you chose to join, I would expect you to follow its rules.

[madfranks]

Most of the things you have listed are beneficial to the customer, but a burden for the employer. So the reward of the brick-and-mortar store, for jumping through all these hoops, is that it gets put at a price disadvantage to its internet counterparts. Why is that fair?

As the playing field gets tilted, their will be fewer and fewer brick-and-mortar stores. Think how many people go to these stores to see the actual products, then purchase them online.

I think it's sad that the brick and mortar shops are petitioning to impose the online retailers with taxes rather than fight to lower their own taxes. It's like a shackled slave seeing a free man, and instead of yearning for his own shackles to come off so he can be free, he yearns for the free man to be shackled so it's "fair".

[Sparky]

I think it's sad that the brick and mortar shops are petitioning to impose the online retailers with taxes rather than fight to lower their own taxes. It's like a shackled slave seeing a free man, and instead of yearning for his own shackles to come off so he can be free, he yearns for the free man to be shackled so it's "fair".

Yes, that's a fair point. But they probably understand the futility of trying to get the government to lower taxes, so as a minimum they have to fight for a fair playing field.

And you're correct. Even if the government were to be revenue neutral, the impact of taxing online sales should be to lower the existing rate. If the politicians weren't so revenue-greedy, they could propose this and it would appear as a win-win situation, as they would be able to claim a lowering of the existing rate.

[madfranks]

Yes, that's a fair point. But they probably understand the futility of trying to get the government to lower taxes

I'm not so sure they do. Most people, even CEOs of major companies, not only accept having to pay taxes as the "price for society", but willingly pay them. To them, it really is that the online retailers are not paying their "fair" share.

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

Just as almost every credit card company operates out of Delaware state because of it's unique credit laws, this will simply encourage online retailers to move into the states that have no sales tax...Won't it?

It'll raise the question of whether you are liable for sales tax based on the state of the sale, or the state of the recipient.

Either way, it's a huge headache. I don't see why the government is entitled to anymore tax. What work have they done SPECIFICALLY to enable online retail? Online retail exists because of infrastructure we have already paid for, for OTHER purposes. Sure, online retail utilizes roads, but we already paid for those roads via tax & debt....Why should we have to pay again?

Why should the government get a fraction of every transaction? Why am I not provided with a receipt for how this money is spent?

There are too many questions with no readily apparent answers.

[FreeEnergy]

I think it's sad that the brick and mortar shops are petitioning to impose the online retailers with taxes rather than fight to lower their own taxes. It's like a shackled slave seeing a free man, and instead of yearning for his own shackles to come off so he can be free, he yearns for the free man to be shackled so it's "fair".

Ha, if it was THAT simple. You think large brick and mortars pay local tax? Ask Walmart, Cabellas etc. Before they build their shopping center, they negotiate tax abatement with local governments arguing that they will bring jobs (usually net job effect is negative, for low wage jobs they bring higher wage jobs and local merchants are gone).

They are crying wolves.

[FreeEnergy]

Just as almost every credit card company operates out of Delaware state because of it's unique credit laws, this will simply encourage online retailers to move into the states that have no sales tax...Won't it?

It'll raise the question of whether you are liable for sales tax based on the state of the sale, or the state of the recipient. .

If they make it a federal law (which is what large brick-and-mortars want), it won't matter which state you are in, it'll be across the board.


Why should the government get a fraction of every transaction?

And another question is : WHY should VISA/Mastercard get a 2% cut of every VISA/Mastercard transaction? For the privilege to pass bytes from one computer to the other?

[Skirnir_]

And another question is : WHY should VISA/Mastercard get a 2% cut of every VISA/Mastercard transaction? For the privilege to pass bytes from one computer to the other?

Because all three parties (buyer, seller, intermediary) agreed so. Volenti fit non injuria.

[FreeEnergy]

well, seller has no choice in this. if you are selling online, you are paying 2-3% per transaction cut to the banksters, period.

oh, and they also make money on returns and chargebacks.

[Skirnir_]

well, seller has no choice in this. if you are selling online, you are paying 2-3% per transaction cut to the banksters, period.

oh, and they also make money on returns and chargebacks.

I've paid and received several cheques for online transactions. I would therefore advise an asterisk in lieu of a period.

[FreeEnergy]

I've paid and received several cheques for online transactions. I would therefore advise an asterisk in lieu of a period.

:) ok
but if merchant is a real business and not a one-man show they'd have to still record that transaction.



If you guys think that tax is small potatoes, let me give you an example:

Let's take a small one-man show, a guy makes $3000/mo on his website.

Assuming 20% profit margin, that's $15000/mo in sales.

If the feds inact the tax, assuming average 6% that would be additional $900 expense.
So this guy's take home is now $2100/mo .

He just went from $15/hour to $10.50.