A patron shoots two robbers at Palms Internet Cafe on July 13, 2012

[Cebu_4_2]

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Published: Mon, July 16, 2012

Holdup at Palms Internet Cafe A patron shoots two robbers at Palms Internet Cafe on July 13, 2012.



http://video.ocala.com/video/1737866652001/

[Dogman]

Florida senior citizen Samuel Williams thwarted a robbery at the Palms Internet Cafe when he managed to quietly pull his concealed gun and shot the would-be robbers. Williams, who is being hailed as a hero by Internet cafe patrons for quickly taking action when the armed robbers rushed in wearing masks and smashing computer screens, according to The Blaze. (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/surveillance-vid-shows-71-year-old-concealed-carry-holder-opening-fire-on-would-be-robbers/) Williams was seated near the back of the cafe when Duwayne Henderson, 19, pointed a handgun at customers inside the Palms Internet Cafe. Davis Dawkins, also 19, is shown in cafe surveillance tapes swinging a bat, the Ocala News (http://www.ocala.com/article/20120716/ARTICLES/120719790?p=2&tc=pg&tc=ar)reports.

When Henderson turned his back, Samuel Williams pulled his .380-caliber semi-automatic handgun from his concealed holster, took several steps and then dropped to one knee and fired two shots at Henderson as he bolted for the door. Samuel Williams walked closer to the door of the Palms Internet Cafe and continued firing at Dawkins and Henderson. The two would-be robbers reportedly “fell over one another” trying to get away from the building.

Neither Henderson or Dawkins suffered life-threatening gunshot wounds and were later arrested by local law enforcement officers. The men were charged with attempted armed robber with a firearm and felony criminal mischief. Henderson is currently being housed at the Marion County Jail and Dawkins was released after posting bond.

“I think he is wonderful. If he wouldn’t have been there, there could have been some innocent people shot,” Palms Internet Cafe patron and shooting witness Mary Beach told the Ocala News.
Samuel Williams holds a Florida (http://www.inquisitr.com/278226/trayvon-martin-memorial-removal-sets-off-tensions-in-sanford/) concealed carry permit and will not face any criminal charges for shooting the armed suspects at the Palms Internet Cafe, according statements made by Florida State Attorney’s Office representative Bill Gladson to the Ocala News.


Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/278528/senior-citizen-samuel-williams-shoots-robber-at-palms-internet-cafe-in-florida-video/#4OaLZQGLzBSfA5W1.99

[willie pete]

with a little more training and practice, grandpa could've made everyone's day, who knows what would've happened if he hadn't of shot them, could've been another "Luby's"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby%27s_massacre

[Heimdhal]

Dude did just fine and likley was NOT his first rodeo.


Notice he waited for the opportune time to strike, when the gunmen were in an open position with little cover or bystanders obscuring them.

The old man broke from his seat with haste and had the gun in action immediatley. He pressed his attack quickly and aggressivley, following through the whole way and never relenting. The gunmen were taken 100% by suprise and they paniced, which is ideal. They had no idea what was going on and were NOT expecting any resistance.

The old man continued to press his attack until the two robbers were stumbling over one another out the door. He stayed low the entire way through his attack, continued to move through out the fight and scored hits on both his targets. While he failed to use cover, in this situation it was appropriate because he had denied the robbers the chance to regroup and return fire from a covered position of their own. All the gun fire was going in one direction: at the bad guys, and that is exactly the way it needed to be in such a crowded, confined space.

Despite using a .380, he neutralized the threat inside the store by making the robbers flee, unarmed and with some extra holes in them.

[Osiris]

Go grandpa! That's awesome!

[Santa]

I think those guys just wanted to buy some Skittles for their younger brother.

[Awoke]

I love the way he racked his slide. He's definitely a man who has some practice time on the range.

Also regarding Luby's - Luby's never would have been as bad if everyone was carrying. I think this is the famous video of the daughter in court, condemning the state for not allowing people to carry firearms, and blaming the state for her parents deaths by way of restrictive gun laws.

[willie pete]

Dude did just fine and likley was NOT his first rodeo.


Notice he waited for the opportune time to strike, when the gunmen were in an open position with little cover or bystanders obscuring them.

The old man broke from his seat with haste and had the gun in action immediatley. He pressed his attack quickly and aggressivley, following through the whole way and never relenting. The gunmen were taken 100% by suprise and they paniced, which is ideal. They had no idea what was going on and were NOT expecting any resistance.

The old man continued to press his attack until the two robbers were stumbling over one another out the door. He stayed low the entire way through his attack, continued to move through out the fight and scored hits on both his targets. While he failed to use cover, in this situation it was appropriate because he had denied the robbers the chance to regroup and return fire from a covered position of their own. All the gun fire was going in one direction: at the bad guys, and that is exactly the way it needed to be in such a crowded, confined space.

Despite using a .380, he neutralized the threat inside the store by making the robbers flee, unarmed and with some extra holes in them.

I applaud him, he did a good job, what sorta bothered me though was if you stop the vid around the 00:35 second mark, the bad guy's right arm, holding his weapon, is extended right at grandpa, at this point grandpa could've very easily taken a round or two, my position in this scenerio would've been to take my first shot just before this posture by the BG around the 00:32-33 mark in the vid, a 3-shot initial group to the head/neck area or aim a few inches below his right armpit when his arm was up, that would increase your chances of a good heart/lung shot....oh and I don't think I'd ever carry anything under a 9mm, unless it was a .22 (much less recoil, more control, remember, Shot Placement IS Key)

[Shami-Amourae]

Samuel Williams is a fucking hero. I love this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwfM7cA-MmE

[slowbell]

I applaud him, he did a good job, what sorta bothered me though was if you stop the vid around the 00:35 second mark, the bad guy's right arm, holding his weapon, is extended right at grandpa, at this point grandpa could've very easily taken a round or two, my position in this scenerio would've been to take my first shot just before this posture by the BG around the 00:32-33 mark in the vid, a 3-shot initial group to the head/neck area or aim a few inches below his right armpit when his arm was up, that would increase your chances of a good heart/lung shot....oh and I don't think I'd ever carry anything under a 9mm, unless it was a .22 (much less recoil, more control, remember, Shot Placement IS Key)

I tend to agree with you, however by grampa getting a little bit closer for that first shot his accuracy would be a lot better. I applaud him on remaining calm and collected before taking that first shot, backdrop, lots of people around and all. Furthermore, the fact that it's on camera, the robber pointing a gun at him will help him in case he gets sued. The robber turds could try to sue him civilly, thought I doubt with this video, any lawyer would even take the case.

Grampa 2 robbers 0, justice served.

[Heimdhal]

I applaud him, he did a good job, what sorta bothered me though was if you stop the vid around the 00:35 second mark, the bad guy's right arm, holding his weapon, is extended right at grandpa, at this point grandpa could've very easily taken a round or two, my position in this scenerio would've been to take my first shot just before this posture by the BG around the 00:32-33 mark in the vid, a 3-shot initial group to the head/neck area or aim a few inches below his right armpit when his arm was up, that would increase your chances of a good heart/lung shot....oh and I don't think I'd ever carry anything under a 9mm, unless it was a .22 (much less recoil, more control, remember, Shot Placement IS Key)

Its easy enough to go back in hindsight and say what he should have done or could have done. INdeed thats exactly what we SHOULD do, to learn. But when that time comes, what happens happens and theres no going back once it does. All in all, he came out on top because he did MOST things the right way, or at least more decisivley than the other guys.


On the shot placement thing, I wouldnt count on it. If you watch his first shot (right around :33?) it appears he either did NOT make contact with the first round or bucked the shot and hit low. I think it made contact low. He even took time to get his sights on target too, a little too much time in fact (he was also carrying without one in the chamber to begin with, another time-costing thing).

If the shot placement thing was in effect, he had the absolute best possible chance for vital organ disruption having a perfect shot at the robber with his arm raised and body indexed. An oblique angle like that he could have sent rounds through the thinnest part of the torso and into the most vital organs (heart, lungs, pancreas, liver, aorta).

But, the simple fact is, the whole "shot placement" thing in the middle of the "Oh Shit" moment is a tall order. Its even more so when you ARE caught off guard or have some one who isnt a pussy and will start fighting/shooting back.

The matter is, you need to get lead on target to do as much damage as you can as quickly as you can and keep going until the threat is over. This guy, for the most part, did that and he did it well enough that he and everyone else except the robbers went home without any extra holes. ;)

[iOWNme]

Incredible.


But, the simple fact is, the whole "shot placement" thing in the middle of the "Oh Shit" moment is a tall order. Its even more so when you ARE caught off guard or have some one who isnt a pussy and will start fighting/shooting back.

I was going to type a big reply, but you pretty much summed it up right there. Its not that a .380 (Especially Hollow Point) isnt lethal, its all about placement. 71yr old Williams was literally 5 ft from the guy with his first shot and he was aiming high and missed.

If you get shot in the side of the head with a .380 from 5ft away..........Its not going to be good, and you will hope you die if you dont.


Another very interesting note and something we can all learn from: Look at how frozen most people are. Go back and watch the video and notice how the people almost appear as if their in a movie. Just as helpless as can be.

[Serpo]

What where the robbers after in an internet cafe.......bitcoins?

[Shami-Amourae]

The video I posted says that 3 of the bullets made contact. Six shots total. That's pretty good IMO.

[Heimdhal]

Incredible.



I was going to type a big reply, but you pretty much summed it up right there. Its not that a .380 (Especially Hollow Point) isnt lethal, its all about placement. 71yr old Williams was literally 5 ft from the guy with his first shot and he was aiming high and missed.

If you get shot in the side of the head with a .380 from 5ft away..........Its not going to be good, and you will hope you die if you dont.


Another very interesting note and something we can all learn from: Look at how frozen most people are. Go back and watch the video and notice how the people almost appear as if their in a movie. Just as helpless as can be.

You're right. Deer in the head lights all around. Watch the large lady whos walking past the robber. When the old man gets his first shot in, you can see her just kind of flinch, but she still continues walking slowly forward, hands in the air, like a robot. Most of the other patrons flinch, but also continue to be otherwise un-moved.

It sums one thing up....MOST people are prey. This is a prey animals reaction when its face with a danger it cannot evade. They freeze, they surrender and their body basicaly accepts death unless the circumstances change.

[Santa]

It's said that the best way to die is in mortal combat.

Your head must be so pumped up with Dopamine or whatever, all you feel is happy time.

[Osiris]

I thought of that when I first saw the video, I didn't watch the others but I noticed the women almost walking in the line of fire. I would hope if I heard shots and wasn't armed I would immediately go to the ground!

I love my .380! Best investment I ever made. Perfect size for me and will do the job at close range which is why I bought it. However, mine is always loaded.

[willie pete]

Its easy enough to go back in hindsight and say what he should have done or could have done.

I agree with this ↑ ↑, as for shot placement, I always practice shot placement with a at least a 3 round group; head/neck or heart/lung area, and I still beleive grandpa got lucky he didn't get shot in the face

[Cebu_4_2]

CZ82:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cggp6iHCUuo&feature=plcp

[Shami-Amourae]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eowwq1DV3J0

[Twisted Titan]

Excellent synopsises Hemi........I learned alot from your breakdown of the situation.

The only mistake Grandpa made was that he should have reached for his cell phone rather then his 380 so he could have quickly contacted the professionalls to let them handle the situation.

[Heimdhal]

Excellent synopsises Hemi........I learned alot from your breakdown of the situation.

The only mistake Grandpa made was that he should have reached for his cell phone rather then his 380 so he could have quickly contacted the professionalls to let them handle the situation.

Im starting to worry about you..........



;)

[madfranks]

The only mistake Grandpa made was that he should have reached for his cell phone rather then his 380 so he could have quickly contacted the professionalls to let them handle the situation.

Ha ha, you made me lol with that one. Usually sarcasm is not your forte.

[Libertytree]

Florida senior citizen Samuel Williams thwarted a robbery at the Palms Internet Cafe when he managed to quietly pull his concealed gun and shot the would-be robbers. Williams, who is being hailed as a hero by Internet cafe patrons for quickly taking action when the armed robbers rushed in wearing masks and smashing computer screens, according to The Blaze. (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/surveillance-vid-shows-71-year-old-concealed-carry-holder-opening-fire-on-would-be-robbers/) Williams was seated near the back of the cafe when Duwayne Henderson, 19, pointed a handgun at customers inside the Palms Internet Cafe. Davis Dawkins, also 19, is shown in cafe surveillance tapes swinging a bat, the Ocala News (http://www.ocala.com/article/20120716/ARTICLES/120719790?p=2&tc=pg&tc=ar)reports.

When Henderson turned his back, Samuel Williams pulled his .380-caliber semi-automatic handgun from his concealed holster, took several steps and then dropped to one knee and fired two shots at Henderson as he bolted for the door. Samuel Williams walked closer to the door of the Palms Internet Cafe and continued firing at Dawkins and Henderson. The two would-be robbers reportedly “fell over one another” trying to get away from the building.

Neither Henderson or Dawkins suffered life-threatening gunshot wounds and were later arrested by local law enforcement officers. The men were charged with attempted armed robber with a firearm and felony criminal mischief. Henderson is currently being housed at the Marion County Jail and Dawkins was released after posting bond.

“I think he is wonderful. If he wouldn’t have been there, there could have been some innocent people shot,” Palms Internet Cafe patron and shooting witness Mary Beach told the Ocala News.
Samuel Williams holds a Florida (http://www.inquisitr.com/278226/trayvon-martin-memorial-removal-sets-off-tensions-in-sanford/) concealed carry permit and will not face any criminal charges for shooting the armed suspects at the Palms Internet Cafe, according statements made by Florida State Attorney’s Office representative Bill Gladson to the Ocala News.


Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/278528/senior-citizen-samuel-williams-shoots-robber-at-palms-internet-cafe-in-florida-video/#4OaLZQGLzBSfA5W1.99



WTF? They already let that sum bitch back out! And now they know the dudes name that threw down on'em.

Great breakdown of the situation Heim, HT.

[madfranks]

I just showed the video to a co-worker of mine and the first thing she said was, "what was that old man doing with a gun??"

[Awoke]

I showed it to my kids and they thought it was awesome that he put a stop to the victimization of everyone in that cafe.

[Osiris]

I just showed the video to a co-worker of mine and the first thing she said was, "what was that old man doing with a gun??"

Wow! What an idiot!

[Twisted Titan]

I just showed the video to a co-worker of mine and the first thing she said was, "what was that old man doing with a gun??"




Something your @$$ couldnt appreciate unless you were there and at the mercy of those thugs........... effing nincompoop

[Twisted Titan]

WTF? They already let that sum bitch back out! And now they know the dudes name that threw down on'em.

.


I highly doubt Mr Mac is gonna be looking for a second run in............ Dum cowards know when they caught a break

[Awoke]

What where the robbers after in an internet cafe.......bitcoins?

Based on the fact that you can see the Bat-wielding thug also carrying a back pack, I'm sure they were there for watches and wallets, etc.

[Awoke]

(he was also carrying without one in the chamber to begin with, another time-costing thing).


I don't know the State laws, but is it possible that he is not allowed to carry with one in the chamber?

[Heimdhal]

I don't know the State laws, but is it possible that he is not allowed to carry with one in the chamber?

He was in Florida. There are no restrictions for loaded handguns here (in that sense). Some people are silly about their guns and dont like to keep a round loaded for some odd reason.

[Tumbleweed]

Looked like he was carrying a LCP or 3AT. I always carry a round in the chamber and don't worry about it. they have a long trigger pull and that seems to be all the safety you need. Their magazine holds six rounds so it appeared he was out of ammo. I wonder if he was packing an extra magazine?

[madfranks]

He was in Florida. There are no restrictions for loaded handguns here (in that sense). Some people are silly about their guns and dont like to keep a round loaded for some odd reason.

I'm one of those people. My carry guns are my glock and my LCP, neither of which has a safety (which to me is a good thing). My holster of choice is a shoulder holster, when I'm wearing a jacket, and I'm just not comfortable sweeping everyone around me with one in the chamber. Watch the video again, I don't think the old man lost any time by having to rack the slide, he did it as he was turning around.

[Heimdhal]

I'm one of those people. My carry guns are my glock and my LCP, neither of which has a safety (which to me is a good thing). My holster of choice is a shoulder holster, when I'm wearing a jacket, and I'm just not comfortable sweeping everyone around me with one in the chamber. Watch the video again, I don't think the old man lost any time by having to rack the slide, he did it as he was turning around.

He had time because the bad guy wasnt focused on JUST him. Had he been alone, say in a back alley, getting out of a car, at a gas station and some guy had the drop on him.... thats a whole other thing.

I say again, its silly NOT to carry with a round chambered with modern firearms, saftey or not. Your glock in fact has multiple safties, just no external manual saftey lever. It has a firing pin block saftey and a drop saftey, which are internal and incorporated into the fucntion of the trigger group, and an external trigger depression saftey which blocks reward trigger movement from oblique angles.

Guns dont magicaly just discharge, not good, modern ones anyways. In a proper holster with proper handling, they have a practicaly 0% chance of discharge.

I have what I would consider an exceptional fast concealment draw, I practice constantly. I would NEVER feel comfortable NOT having a round chambered and having to rack the slide during my draw. When I need my gun, I NEED IT, and not .342 seconds later. When its go time, its go time and we dont get to pick when that time is.

heres a good video I like to pass around ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syxrpLbaEuY

[Awoke]

On the contrary, I know a lot of hunters, and I have heard many-a-story about a gun randomly discharging with no one was handling it. Admittedly every example I can think of is a rifle, but they are centerfired in every case.

[Heimdhal]

On the contrary, I know a lot of hunters, and I have heard many-a-story about a gun randomly discharging with no one was handling it. Admittedly every example I can think of is a rifle, but they are centerfired in every case.

Some rifles function a little different, especialy older ones and with the soft primers of many commercial hunting rounds, theres a higher chance of an AD.


HOWEVER, in MOST of those cases, I would bet hard money that some dude was fucking around with the gun and it discharged, then later said "I dunno, Bob, the thing just went off."

Can it happen? Absolutley. Is it likley or common? No. Is it worth being scared of in a modern pistol to NOT have a round chambered when you NEEEEED it? Fuck no!

[slowbell]

On the contrary, I know a lot of hunters, and I have heard many-a-story about a gun randomly discharging with no one was handling it. Admittedly every example I can think of is a rifle, but they are centerfired in every case.

Those likely could be lever action rifles with the hammer not in the half cocked position. If the hammer is all the way down, such as on my lever action rifle, the hammer could be accidentally hit causing it to strike any chambered round.

[horseshoe3]

HOWEVER, in MOST of those cases, I would bet hard money that some dude was fucking around with the gun and it discharged, then later said "I dunno, Bob, the thing just went off."


Thats exactly what I was thinking. Besides, if a round can magically go off in the chamber, what's to keep it from going off in the magazine with potentially much worse results?

[tater]

Some rifles function a little different, especialy older ones and with the soft primers of many commercial hunting rounds, theres a higher chance of an AD.


HOWEVER, in MOST of those cases, I would bet hard money that some dude was fucking around with the gun and it discharged, then later said "I dunno, Bob, the thing just went off."

Can it happen? Absolutley. Is it likley or common? No. Is it worth being scared of in a modern pistol to NOT have a round chambered when you NEEEEED it? Fuck no!

Heimdal, I have never, ever in my entire life heard of a gun discharging by it's damn self much less several different stories of it occuring. How could it happen, a house fire, put it in the oven, lean against the wood heater? I have been around guns my entire life and if you don't touch it, it don't go off...I'm curious why you would say a weapon COULD discharge while it's not being handled. I also carry with one in the pipe cause if I keep my finger off the trigger it will NOT go bang...

BTW, I think you give great advice on carrying and situational advice as well. Thanks and keep it up.

[Awoke]

I have great respect for Heim's firearm knowledge.

I wasn't trying to be difficult or arguementative, but I do know of a few instances where rifles have gone off for no reason. In one particular case, the rifle was just standing up leaning against a wall on the other side of the room.

One thing I will concede to is the fact that in every case I can think of, they were ooooooold rifles. Not modern firearms.
I'm just saying shit can happen. I have never heard of a hand gun discharging all on it's own before.

[Heimdhal]

Heimdal, I have never, ever in my entire life heard of a gun discharging by it's damn self much less several different stories of it occuring. How could it happen, a house fire, put it in the oven, lean against the wood heater? I have been around guns my entire life and if you don't touch it, it don't go off...I'm curious why you would say a weapon COULD discharge while it's not being handled. I also carry with one in the pipe cause if I keep my finger off the trigger it will NOT go bang...

BTW, I think you give great advice on carrying and situational advice as well. Thanks and keep it up.

I say "could" because saying "never" is too absolute. There may be a .00000000000000001% chance, but that means theres still a chance and I dont like to rule anything out. Mechanicaly speaking, anything COULD happen.


But yes, keep the bugger hook off the bang switch, keep objects from intruding into the trigger guard, keep the firing pin channel clean (especialy for free floating firing pin guns, which we see mostly in rifles) and there is such a minute chance of something happening its almost not worth thinking about.

I own LOTS of guns with free floating firing pins and guns that are 100+ years old. I use my guns hard, they are tools, not safe queens. They are mostly military rifles and are treated as such. I've yet to have a round just "go off."


HORSESHOE brings up a good point about if rounds magicaly go off, why not be scared of them magicaly going off in a magazine. I have seen magazine discharges (I.E. a bullet/high energy object hitting a loaded magazine, in fact Box O' Truth did it once too, IIRC). Its not pretty, think mini grenade going off. However, again, this is not a bullet just going off, this is a magazine being shot or hit with sharpnel, which in turns detnotes a primer, setting off the cartridge.



Anyways, point being: No reason to be scared of a gun springing to life and going bang :D