Against real estate ownership

[Skirnir_]

Owning real estate in this county is replete with geopolitical risk, the cost of ownership (including tax) will only get more odious, and the opportunity cost for the capital warrants renting or an alternate arrangement.

1) Geopolitical risk

a) Eminent domain - what more need be said
b) Civil forfeiture - has been more broadly applied as of late
c) Strategic blunder - having an illiquid asset in this country hinders one's mobility. It becomes an excuse to stick around when one would be better served to flee. Furthermore, if one had to abandon property, one opens one's self up to adverse possession claims, and it will be a huge chunk of money that one cannot use to start a new life.

2) Cost of ownership

a) The rule of thumb is that the cost of maintaining a house averages roughly 2%/yr. Expect this to increase as real estate depreciates in real terms, and the cost of raw materials increases.
b) Property taxes - state and local regimes have become more desperate and are easy targets for states to pass on budget cuts. Property tax is seen as progressive because the ownership of real property is seen as a sign of wealth. Why paint one's self as a target?

3) Opportunity cost of capital

Even if real estate were somehow to miraculously hold its nominal value, the opportunity cost of doing so will likely be odious as inflation ravages the economy. Furthermore, in an illiquid market such as real estate, there might not even be a bid at any given time, so even if one were to decide to liquidate, it could be years before one has a cheque in hand.

This country is pretty much fucked, so act accordingly. As I told my parents: anyone who doesn't cash out and jump ship does not deserve a red cent in remittances.

[palani]

Real estate is just a form of estate.


Estate ... In Latin, it is called status, because it signifies the condition or circumstances in which the owner stands with regard to his property.


OWNER, property. The owner is he who has dominion of a thing real or person-al, corporeal or incorporeal, which he has a right to enjoy and to do with as he pleases, even to spoil or destroy it, as far as the law permits, unless he be prevented by some agreement or covenant which restrains his right.

[Skirnir_]

http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/238664?redirectedFrom=real+estate&


In modern use esp. N. Amer.

1. Property consisting of land and the buildings on it, along with its natural resources such as crops, minerals, or water; immovable property of this nature (originally contrasted with personal estate n. at estate n. 11a); an interest vested in this; (also) an item of real property; (more generally) buildings or housing in general. Also: the business of real estate; the profession of buying, selling, or renting land, buildings, or housing. Cf. real property at real adj.2 7c.

[palani]

Property consisting of land and the buildings on it
You might as soon go to reading chicken bones and tea leaves as to try to understand law from any current books.

Property consists of land? What is land? Land is a geographic SHAPE, a volume, that extends to the center of the earth and to the heavens above. It is not dirt. It is not mineral. It is not water, liquids or gas. It contains those things, much like a person is considered a container of rights and duties.

[Skirnir_]

You might as soon go to reading chicken bones and tea leaves...

That is what you do, like clockwork.

[palani]

That is what you do, like clockwork.

Ahh, I see you prefer to be ignorant. Don't let me stand in your way.

[zap]

Here is a hypothetical for you Skirnir,

Buy a house for 85,000 in put 2000.00 down, property taxes and insurance are approx 1600 a year, Rent it out for 850 to 900 a month, mortgage payment of 500 a month, the bank holds the note but you receive monthly income, and in the end you would own the property. I don't think selling would be wise in any event because once the note is paid off, you'll have all of the income.

I am not against that kind of real estate ownership.


As far as eminent domain and all the other things you mentioned, sometimes you just got to take a chance.... and if you ended up losing the property for some reason, not much sweat off your back cause you haven't invested hardly any of your money into it, and you've been receiving money every month .

[k-os]

I hate to break up this love fest between you two. I rarely fully understand palani, but I find him to be fascinating character and highly intelligent. Most everything he says goes beyond my head, and I always wish he'd speak "to his audience" . . . but nevertheless. I will not be discussing legal terms with you, Skirnir_, but rather what I thought was your OP's intent.

1) You are right about geopolitical risk.
2) You are right about cost of ownership.
3) You are partially right about opportunity cost of capital. Most of my objections to your statements on this one are about intrinsic value. Some things are difficult to put a $value on.

- I have awesome neighbors. Some who I consider to be family, and even better than some of my family. (How lucky am I?) Having been a renter, and having known plenty of renters . . . you just don't get a sense of community when renting, in my opinion. No one wants to invest time and energy getting to know someone that will be gone in 1 year.
- My neighborhood is small and tight-knit. We ALL know each other, and we all know the vehicles that belong here. I don't want to sound (or be) too cocky, but I think if the time came, we could defend this place for a little while or more. I am not the only armed person here, but I can lend a few arms if need be. :) Plus, my neighborhood is surrounded by an alligator-filled moat. For real. I have known land owners that share a similar type of neighborhood, even if that neighborhood was dozens of miles in circumference.
- I can travel easily by water or rail if I need to escape (not just roads).

If it weren't for the special circumstances, I would say that renting is the way to go, particularly if you're not a handyman (or know someone who is). I wish I could go back to renting, when someone else fixed the septic, well, roof, air conditioner, etc.

OK, I might be discussing legal terms with you. What I don't understand is this statement:


As I told my parents: anyone who doesn't cash out and jump ship does not deserve a red cent in remittances.

This is what I found is the definition of "remittance":


A remittance is a transfer of money (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_transfer) by a foreign worker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migrant_worker) to his or her home country.

I don't deserve a red cent that I were to transfer if I were a foreign worker to my home country? Sorry, tell me what you mean as a remittance, if this is not what you meant. I don't mean to seem daft, I just am sometimes.

I took it to mean that I don't deserve a bailout, and I agree. I won't be asking for one.

[k-os]

As far as eminent domain and all the other things you mentioned, sometimes you just got to take a chance.... and if you ended up losing the property for some reason, not much sweat off your back cause you haven't invested hardly any of your money into it, and you've been receiving money every month .

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention gambling. We're all gambling, whether it's on gold, silver, stocks, bonds, dollars, euros, guilders (gulden), real estate . . . it's all diversification of assets. It's all gambling to some extent.

[General of Darkness]

I venture to guess that Trolzkirnir doesn't even have a fucking job which makes it easy to make such broad statements. Trolzkirnir have you gone full circle and now become a Bolshevik jew?

[Skirnir_]

Here is a hypothetical for you Skirnir,

Buy a house for 85,000 in put 2000.00 down, property taxes and insurance are approx 1600 a year, Rent it out for 850 to 900 a month, mortgage payment of 500 a month, the bank holds the note but you receive monthly income, and in the end you would own the property. I don't think selling would be wise in any event because once the note is paid off, you'll have all of the income.

For an $85k house, maintenance would be $1,7k, likely more because tenants have no incentive to not cause wear and tear. Also, mortgages usually require 20% down, or $17k here.

I did run the mortgages for a 15 and 30 year note at 3% and 3,6% and the note is much closer to $200/mo incl. 2% taxes and insurance. Arbitraging the rental even at 800/mo would be $5,6k/yr, or about a 33% return on the down payment before taxes.

However, the above is all static accounting, and a bit myopic. It assumes a 0% vacancy rate, & that the tenant pays on time and does not brazen things out in the courts. Everything is worth what the buyer will pay for it, including rentals. As economic conditions deteriorate, net household destruction ensues as households merge and economise, which tend to depress rents paid in already-depreciating dollars.

There is also the matter of geopolitical risk. Obongo just slapped a 3,8% tax on net rental incomes, and the proceeds are taxable at one's tax bracket. Compare to gold that can (still) be liquidated for cash and whose income is not reported.

Still, that is a rather interesting business model. Why not replicate it in a more stable jurisdiction? Doing that here sounds like renting out a lawn chair on a sinking ship.

[Skirnir_]

I venture to guess that Trolzkirnir doesn't even have a fucking job which makes it easy to make such broad statements. Trolzkirnir have you gone full circle and now become a Bolshevik jew?

Quoted for archival as a personal attack.

[General of Darkness]

Quoted for archival as a personal attack.

LMAO, like I give a fuck your taking notes. You just being here is a personal attack on the forum.

[Skirnir_]

LMAO, like I give a fuck you're taking notes. You just being here is a personal attack on the forum.

1253

[zap]

LOL Sorry Skinir,

I posted that hypothetical situation because I know lots of people here are a hell of alot smarter then me, some people are book smart and can run numbers, and some people are just tenacious and take chances here and there.

I think I fall into the latter category, I would say yep your right, and just shut up. :) edited

[vacuum]

Hasn't it always been the case that single people rent, whereas couples buy houses? When you've got a family, that's the time to put roots down and hold your ground. Children are like little investments that mature in 20 years, with the payoff hopefully much greater than the cost.

If you are single and purchase property, you're simply tying yourself down unless you are in a unique situation.

[Skirnir_]

LOL Sorry Skinir,

I posted that hypothetical situation because I know lots of people here are a hell of alot smarter then me, some people are book smart and can run numbers, and some people are just tenacious and take chances here and there.

I think I fall into the latter category, and as much as I would like to say yep your right, and just shut up, I just can't .........cause I just smile and collect my money.

That mortgage runs at 4.25 %, 15 year note, refi-ed 1 time, yes it was 2000 down, and I have never paid or spent 1700 k a year for upkeep,maybe my time (labor) it was empty 2 months in the last 5 years.
4 more years and its free and clear.

No apology was required; you sufficiently communicated the idea, I just crunched the numbers to see if it passed muster. However, if what you say is true, then perhaps I was more dismissive than was warranted, though past performance is not a guarantor of the future.

I didn't know they offered mortgages with so little money down; was this during the bubble?

At this juncture, I have started to view things as thumbscrews, in that they can be turned to exert control, and the slower the better. Housing is one of them: complying with some odious regulation XYZ often costs less than the hit one would take if one sold the damn thing and was done with it. Same with driving - instead of kowtowing to the insurance weasels and tax collectors, I sold the car.


Hasn't it always been the case that single people rent, whereas couples buy houses? When you've got a family, that's the time to put roots down and hold your ground. Children are like little investments that mature in 20 years, with the payoff hopefully much greater than the cost.

If you are single and purchase property, you're simply tying yourself down unless you are in a unique situation.

It is likely a pre-existing cultural bias.

[slowbell]

Hasn't it always been the case that single people rent, whereas couples buy houses? When you've got a family, that's the time to put roots down and hold your ground. Children are like little investments that mature in 20 years, with the payoff hopefully much greater than the cost.

If you are single and purchase property, you're simply tying yourself down unless you are in a unique situation.

Bingo! Found myself one time in life with a mortgage, single, and mowing lawns on my Sat. day off, when I should have been out exploring. Asking myself, what the heck am I doing? Never again. No point in putting roots down when you are single and free. Life is dynamic, the only constant...is change. A 30 year fixed is pretty damn constant and a person can easily become a slave to what they claim to own.

[zap]

Oh and another thing, about the taxes and Ins. Skinir, you never want them wrapped up in your loan or the monthly payment, pay them separately so the money you do pay for the mortgage actually pays principal and interest, you'll pay the house off sooner.

1996


Though past performance is not a guarantor of the future. I agree.

Circumstances and luck, see my signature line.

[Mouse]

If you could sell the car and the house, then you must live in a pack em and stack em zombie mausoleum, so you can walk to the pizza, the 7-11 and the fema bus. Or maybe it's "what I'd really like to do is to borrow the car keys, and see ya later, can I have them please?"

Edited:

And as I hung up the phone, it occurred to me, my kid was a fucking sheeple
He'd grown into a fucking sheep.........

[Skirnir_]

If you could sell the car and the house, then you must live in a pack em and stack em zombie mausoleum, so you can walk to the pizza, the 7-11 and the fema bus. Or maybe it's "what I'd really like to do is to borrow the car keys, and see ya later, can I have them please?"

Edited:

And as I hung up the phone, it occurred to me, my kid was a fucking sheeple
He'd grown into a fucking sheep.........

I rent a room, and can walk to and from the farmer's market. Almost everything else, I purchase on the internet. Storage of precious metals is not a consideration as they were all lost on a boating accident when I was shooting 'Ben Bernake Can Kiss My Ass', my début music video.

[slowbell]

If you could sell the car and the house, then you must live in a pack em and stack em zombie mausoleum, so you can walk to the pizza, the 7-11 and the fema bus.

You could do that. It's all fun and games until it's Christmas and the shitter is full..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XqYGNi9WVw

[zap]

Everyone has a different mindset, and circumstance.... to each their own. :)

[PatColo]

4. End of so called "private property" as per UN Agenda 21 & the greater JWO (http://zioncrimefactory.com/jew-world-order/) agenda. Here's how:

Thread: CBS 60 Minutes: Mortgages: Walking Away (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?27547-CBS-60-Minutes-Mortgages-Walking-Away)


Thread: Agenda 21 For Dummies (incl: abolition of private property) (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?35061-Agenda-21-For-Dummies-%28incl-abolition-of-private-property%29)

[Skirnir_]

Everyone has a different mindset, and circumstance.... to each their own. :)

I entered the down payment ($17k) instead of the loan amount ($68k) in the calculator, so you were right about the mortgage payment too.

[vacuum]

Under the USDA Rural Housing Program, you can actually get a home for 0 down.

https://origin.bankrate.com/finance/mortgages/zero-down-mortgages-endure-in-rural-areas.aspx

[Glass]

Why is the USDA involved in all these things that don't relate to agriculture.

For instance the USDA runs the food stamps. The USDA sets the nutrition guidelines. The USDA is involved in housing. It seems odd to me.

[cpy911]

Losers dont own their dwellings. Not all renters are losers.

[Awoke]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention gambling. We're all gambling, whether it's on gold, silver, stocks, bonds, dollars, euros, guilders (gulden), real estate . . . it's all diversification of assets. It's all gambling to some extent.

The only time you're not gambling is when you stockpile Guns and Ammo, and even then there is the risk of the UN trying to take them away from you.

[Awoke]

Trolzkirnir have you gone full circle and now become a Bolshevik jew?

Based on the fact that the old Skirnir had great respect for Anty Ep, Magnes and others in that vein, I can only suspect that Skirnir is not actually Skirnir.

I suspect he is one of those who say they are Skirnir but are not, but are the synagogue of AIPAC.

[sirgonzo420]

Based on the fact that the old Skirnir had great respect for Anty Ep, Magnes and others in that vein, I can only suspect that Skirnir is not actually Skirnir.

I suspect he is one of those who say they are Skirnir but are not, but are the synagogue of AIPAC.



LOL.

I'm pretty sure it's just Skirnir, who I do not believe to be affiliated with AIPAC.

[Skirnir_]

Based on the fact that the old Skirnir had great respect for Anty Ep, Magnes and others in that vein, I can only suspect that Skirnir is not actually Skirnir.

I suspect he is one of those who say they are Skirnir but are not, but are the synagogue of AIPAC.



Both GeneralOfDoltishness and Magnes posted unwarranted attacks against me within the first week or so of this account's creation, and I was within rights to return fire. The conduct of the former has been especially pernicious as of late, though he is sometimes amusing in his own deranged, quasi-Neronian manner.

[sirgonzo420]

Both GeneralOfDoltishness and Magnes posted unwarranted attacks against me within the first week or so of this account's creation, and I was within rights to return fire. The conduct of the former has been especially pernicious as of late, though he is sometimes amusing in his own deranged, quasi-Neronian manner.

^This.

They were giving him hell pretty much immediately.

Skirnir is one of the good guys, at least in a macrocosmic sense, although he might not make the best neighbor as he might frequently be asking for a ride. ;D

I do notice that he appears to be more militant these days (probably due in part to his 'reading list' as of late), but that's not always a detriment... hell, as Skirnir notes above, GoD himself has been more hostile than usual lately.

I just like seeing old names return to the fold.

[Awoke]

I don't know Skirnir from Adam, and he doesn't know me either, but I do know Anty Ep and Magnes.

For Skirnir to be on the same page as them in the past, and then show up here 3 years later only to be pretty much diametrically opposite to that page now (based on what I have gathered) seems unrealistic to me.

I saw the attacks, but even as Fenrisulfr, he was not posting in the Skirnir vein that the pioneers were used to. If, as Fenrisulfr, he was posting in the vein that he used to post in as Skirnir, I suspect the attacks would have never taken place. I suspect that open arms would have been all over the place.

It seems strange to me, that's all... Three year hiatus, then a return with a whole different attitude.

[MAGNES]

Magnes posted unwarranted attacks against me within the first week or so of this account's creation,

You got banned for swearing at me and I had no idea who you were.

Slowly I figured you out with your posts I saw, I didn't see them all.

I gave you a pass, and you gave me no credit for that it seems.

I did call you a troll, sorry, but I backed off later .

MAGNES Vs FENRI , first contact, who killed FENRI , lol , I miss him .
American Muslims Stone Christians in Dearborn, MI (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?61886-American-Muslims-Stone-Christians-in-Dearborn-MI)

Even warned you about who you are hanging with, Joe King = Halophyte troll friendlies,
skyvike friendlies, censors, you were against these type of people in the past, whole
purpose of your creation of Agora.

Have no clue about GofD and what happened and thunderdome references by Madfranks.

I'd still defend you against GofD calling you a troll, maybe you are just more combative
and something changed about you. We were good friends, what's up ? You ran a good
tight little forum and helped out the GIM admin, what are you riled up about , ? ,
I have always given you credit ? You want to spit on me now right out of the blue,
what's the reason for it ? Here I am trying to smooth things over giving you credit
and acting as bridge builder, again no credit from you.
http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?62186-MAGNES-strikes-again&p=556824&viewfull=1#post556824

[Awoke]

Both GeneralOfDoltishness and Magnes posted unwarranted attacks against me within the first week or so of this account's creation, and I was within rights to return fire. The conduct of the former has been especially pernicious as of late, though he is sometimes amusing in his own deranged, quasi-Neronian manner.

Add to what I just said in my last post, you are a supposed veteran/pioneer from the Aghora days. You know well who Magnes and GoD are, yet you chose to prance around here in disguise under a different handle.

You brought the heat on yourself by posting as a veteran under a new account. Of course we all suspect the worst, with SPLC assholes like Percy coming back here every once in a while to shake the tree. What other reaction would you expect? Why would you hide your "Skirnir" identity from old friends?

EDIT to reiterate that I have no beef with you, we are just having a discussion, but I find your behaviour extremely curious. I'm not on the attack, I am just a straight shooter.

[Skirnir_]

For Skirnir to be on the same page as them in the past, and then show up here 3 years later only to be pretty much diametrically opposite to that page now (based on what I have gathered) seems unrealistic to me.

I saw the attacks, but even as Fenrisulfr, he was not posting in the Skirnir vein that the pioneers were used to. If, as Fenrisulfr, he was posting in the vein that he used to post in as Skirnir, I suspect the attacks would have never taken place. I suspect that open arms would have been all over the place.

It seems strange to me, that's all... Three year hiatus, then a return with a whole different attitude.

First, it was my way of writing that lead people to believe I was a former poster. Therefore, it is unlikely that I am "diametrically opposite" to what I was 3yr ago.

Second, the attacks were entirely unwarranted by both aforesaid posters. If I was writing in a completely different 'vein' that warranted attack, I would have received many more attacks from many more different posters.

Third, one's sentiments change gradually, and three years' worth of change would appear sudden, therefore it is likely observation bias is in play.

I initially re-registered under Fenrisulfr for two reasons - I was unsure how people would react and wanted to test the waters, and because I could not re-register under the name of my deleted account. On account of the initial attacks, and the tempest in a teapot that GeneralOfDoltishness has since fomented, I defend this action and the subsequent deceptions I employed.

[Awoke]

First, it was my way of writing that lead people to believe I was a former poster. Therefore, it is unlikely that I am "diametrically opposite" to what I was 3yr ago.


I don't think GoD would have accussed you of Bolshevism 3 years ago, would he have?



If I was writing in a completely different 'vein' that warranted attack, I would have received many more attacks from many more different posters.

How would anyone else know the difference? Only a few remember the old Skirnir, no?



Third, one's sentiments change gradually, and three years' worth of change would appear sudden, therefore it is likely observation bias is in play.

I understand that. I changed a LOT in three years myself. I went from believing the LRP was "only somewhat of a farce" into understanding and recognizing the head of the octopus, which is essentially babylonian khazaric jewry.



I initially re-registered under Fenrisulfr for two reasons - I was unsure how people would react and wanted to test the waters, and because I could not re-register under the name of my deleted account. On account of the initial attacks, and the tempest in a teapot that GeneralOfDoltishness has since fomented, I defend this action and the subsequent deceptions I employed.

Obviously you decide how you are going to conduct yourself, and as I said, I found it all quite curious, especially after seeing my online brother Magnes sticking up for you, etc. I appreciate you engaging me with the replies. From here on out I will let it be.

[milehi]

Losers dont own their dwellings. Not all renters are losers.

I agree. I've owned houses because I don't like being told what I can and can't do. I currently rent a place in the middle of nowhere and can do whatever I want to, whenever I want to. I also own a handfull of acres in a foreign country, but have never had the time to see it in person. It looks good from Google Earth however.

[Skirnir_]

No, I will not let this matter be.


I don't think GoD would have accussed you of Bolshevism 3 years ago, would he have?

How would anyone else know the difference? Only a few remember the old Skirnir, no?

I understand that. I changed a LOT in three years myself. I went from believing the LRP was "only somewhat of a farce" into understanding and recognizing the head of the octopus, which is essentially babylonian khazaric jewry.

Obviously you decide how you are going to conduct yourself, and as I said, I found it all quite curious, especially after seeing my online brother Magnes sticking up for you, etc. I appreciate you engaging me with the replies. From here on out I will let it be.

1) I do not concern myself with the affairs of cretinous Croats.
2&3) Either my posts have changed, or they have not. You cannot have it both ways. Did you think such an overt tactic would get past me?
4) I do not recall Magnes defending me during my first few posts. I grew tired of his tempests on teapots, so I ignored his prattle.

[Skirnir_]

I venture to guess that Trolzkirnir doesn't even have a fucking job which makes it easy to make such broad statements. Trolzkirnir have you gone full circle and now become a Bolshevik jew?

I would venture to guess that GeneralOfDoltishness doesn't even have two fucking brain cells to rub together which makes it difficult to understand that when talking about a national, multi-trillion dollar market, of which real state is included, making precise statements is foolish. GeneralOfDoltishness, has the grey matter betwixt your ears degenerated to the degree that you are dumber than a Nigerian?