Four snarling pit bulls savage a MINIVAN

[Serpo]

Four snarling pit bulls savage a MINIVAN to try to reach terrified kitten inside (but it got away after 25-mile ride hiding under hood)

Pit bull terriers scratch and bite at Dodge minivan to get kitten that had run inside to escape
Vehicle suffered a flat tire and damage to the bumper and fender in the attack
Minivan's owner, who also owned the dogs, then drove 25 miles with the cat still hiding in the vehicle
Kitten is healthy and now up for adoption


By Associated Press (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=&authornamef=Associated+Press) and Daily Mail Reporter (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=&authornamef=Daily+Mail+Reporter)
PUBLISHED: 18:00 GMT, 22 August 2012 | UPDATED: 20:27 GMT, 22 August 2012


(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2192149/Pit-bulls-savage-minivan-violent-bid-kitten-hiding-inside.html#comments)


Savage pit bulls trying to get to a stray kitten hiding in the engine compartment of a minivan flattened the vehicle's tire and chewed away big chunks of the fender and bumper.
Four pit bull terriers had chased the kitten into the engine compartment of a Dodge minivan, which was parked in Banning, California.
The animals belonged to the owner of the vehicle.


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/08/22/article-2192149-14A6F33D000005DC-192_634x423.jpg Savage: A group of bloodthirsty pit bulls caused major damage to this minivan while trying to get to a cat that was hiding in the car's engine compartment

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/08/22/article-2192149-14A71059000005DC-357_634x455.jpg Vicious: The minivan suffered damage to its fender and bumper after the dogs had their way with the vehicle



The man, who was not identified, changed the tire on Monday, and - without knowing about the scared kitten inside - drove 25 miles from Banning to Palm Springs.



To add to its amazing tale of survival, the kitten also survived the drive, and had moved into a hollow part of the front bumper before it was discovered by the driver.

Palm Springs' Desert Sun newspaper reported (http://www.mydesert.com/article/20120822/NEWS08/208220303/Dogs-damage-van-trying-get-kitten?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CFrontpage%7 Cp&nclick_check=1) that an animal control officer freed the feline following a 40-minute process that involved removing the bumper.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/08/22/article-2192149-14A71D26000005DC-730_634x339.jpg Angry: The driver of the minivan was also the owner of the dogs, similar to the one pictured here



http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/08/22/article-2192149-14A71061000005DC-50_634x473.jpg Bodywork: The front bumper of the minivan had to be removed to get the kitten out

Surprisingly, the small cat was found to be in good health when examined by veterinarians.

The paper reported that officials named the kitten 'Fender-Linx' due to the conditions of her rescue.
The kitten is now available for adoption at the Palm Springs Animal Shelter.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/08/22/article-2192149-14A71054000005DC-914_634x412.jpg Safe and sound: The kitten, which was given the name 'Fender Linx' by officials, is now available for adoption


Read more:

MyDesert.com: Dogs damage van trying to get kitten (http://www.mydesert.com/article/20120822/NEWS08/208220303/Dogs-damage-van-trying-get-kitten?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CFrontpage%7 Cp&nclick_check=1)


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2192149/Pit-bulls-savage-minivan-violent-bid-kitten-hiding-inside.html

[Dogman]

I do not care for pit bulls at all. (Several kids killed and maimed by pits here)

but this article sounds like a hit piece against the breed.

As far as the car, what would you expect the damage would be on a car made out of plastic and one highly stretched beer can? If those dogs tried that on one of the 'Older" cars that had some real metal in them, all that would have happened would have been some scratched paint, the flat tire and some broken teeth.

[iOWNme]

Propaganda.

[Gaillo]

Irresponsible dog owner.

[Osiris]

Four snarling pit bulls savage a MINIVAN to try to reach terrified kitten inside (but it got away after 25-mile ride hiding under hood)

OMG! Could you get more of a dramatized title? Give me a break! Where are the owners while the 'pit bulls' are attacking the minivan for an obvious long length of time? 'pit bulls' have a very high prey drive and are very powerful. People need to research the breeds they get before they get them and/or learn how to handle them. It is 100% natural for a dog to go after a cat, then get for of them with high prey drive together, and people are shocked like the are some kind of animals????? Wtf?

Dogman, I'm sure there were attacks by other breeds in your area as well. They just weren't reported on!!!
http://www.aspca.org/fight-animal-cruelty/advocacy-center/animal-laws-about-the-issues/pit-bull-bias-in-the-media.aspx

[Dogman]

http://www.aspca.org/fight-animal-cruelty/advocacy-center/animal-laws-about-the-issues/pit-bull-bias-in-the-media.aspx[/URL]

Wish I could say for sure about other breeds, the attacks that have hurt people here by dogs that make the news have always been pits. I can think at least 4 attacks over the last 2-4 years.

Pit bull search.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=east+texas+pit+bull+attacks&oq=east+texas+pit+bull+attacks&gs_l=hp.3..0i8i30.1330.10286.0.10512.27.20.0.7.7.0 .188.2244.4j16.20.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.adcvhs9RW_Y&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=65817657481ee744&biw=1366&bih=664



Dog attack search.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=east+texas+dog+attacks&oq=east+texas+dog+attacks&gs_l=serp.3...78169.78774.0.79381.3.3.0.0.0.0.155. 406.0j3.3.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.UiUc_GZUALI&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=65817657481ee744&biw=1366&bih=664

[iOWNme]

Four snarling pit bulls savage a MINIVAN to try to reach terrified kitten inside (but it got away after 25-mile ride hiding under hood)

OMG! Could you get more of a dramatized title? Give me a break! Where are the owners while the 'pit bulls' are attacking the minivan for an obvious long length of time? 'pit bulls' have a very high prey drive and are very powerful. People need to research the breeds they get before they get them and/or learn how to handle them. It is 100% natural for a dog to go after a cat, then get for of them with high prey drive together, and people are shocked like the are some kind of animals????? Wtf?

Dogman, I'm sure there were attacks by other breeds in your area as well. They just weren't reported on!!!
http://www.aspca.org/fight-animal-cruelty/advocacy-center/animal-laws-about-the-issues/pit-bull-bias-in-the-media.aspx


This is incredible....


Animal control officers across the country have told the ASPCA that when they alert the media to a dog attack, news outlets respond that they have no interest in reporting on the incident unless it involved a pit bull.

[Skirnir_]

Aside from propaganda, the lamstream media wants to sell advertisements. Pit bull attacks sell, beagle attacks do not.

[joboo]

Have to be honest though, I would not be impressed as the owner.

One usually wouldn't expect dogs to go that bent in the head over something so trivial.

[Serpo]

Propaganda.

Against what ,the dogs ,the van or the kitten.......Im on the kittens side in this one.

[Serpo]

Have to be honest though, I would not be impressed as the owner.

One usually wouldn't expect dogs to go that bent in the head over something so trivial.

A small cat can set a dogs brain to madness................

[gunDriller]

Aside from propaganda, the lamstream media wants to sell advertisements. Pit bull attacks sell, beagle attacks do not.

i've been chased or attacked by a German shepherd, 2 mutts, and a small poodle.

the only one that drew blood - the poodle. :)

maybe that's why i don't like Yappy dogs - Post Traumatic Poodle Stress Disorder.

[Skirnir_]

i've been chased or attacked by a German shepherd, 2 mutts, and a small poodle.


This is why having Chinese &/or Korean restaurants nearby area advantageous.

[Osiris]

Wish I could say for sure about other breeds, the attacks that have hurt people here by dogs that make the news have always been pits. I can think at least 4 attacks over the last 2-4 years.

Pit bull search.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=east+texas+pit+bull+attacks&oq=east+texas+pit+bull+attacks&gs_l=hp.3..0i8i30.1330.10286.0.10512.27.20.0.7.7.0 .188.2244.4j16.20.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.adcvhs9RW_Y&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=65817657481ee744&biw=1366&bih=664



Dog attack search.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=east+texas+dog+attacks&oq=east+texas+dog+attacks&gs_l=serp.3...78169.78774.0.79381.3.3.0.0.0.0.155. 406.0j3.3.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.UiUc_GZUALI&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=65817657481ee744&biw=1366&bih=664


My point exactly. A search on google will always come up with a 'pit bull' attack as those are the most reported on.

[Blink]

When SHTF, the wimpy ass LEO's don't want to be dealing with this breed. It'll tear their dogs to pieces as well as them and there ain't no stopping a bull when its got blood on the mind. Thats why drug pushers and the like have them. A cop will stand his ground and fire on anything, but a pit bull. Unless you hit it dead with the first shot, pits will tear you apart. This is why I think media/government/cops want to eliminate people having this breed, because they are probably one of the only breeds that strike terror in a cop............

[Osiris]

When SHTF, the wimpy ass LEO's don't want to be dealing with this breed. It'll tear their dogs to pieces as well as them and there ain't no stopping a bull when its got blood on the mind. Thats why drug pushers and the like have them. A cop will stand his ground and fire on anything, but a pit bull. Unless you hit it dead with the first shot, pits will tear you apart. This is why I think media/government/cops want to eliminate people having this breed, because they are probably one of the only breeds that strike terror in a cop............

Maybe so, but not all of the breed is like that. 99% of the dogs I have met in this breed type would not act that way. No joke, my dog chased a cat into a corner and when the cat jumped on the wall as a last reort my dog realized it was coming down on him he fell on his back in terror.... What a killer!!!!!

[Blink]

Maybe so, but not all of the breed is like that. 99% of the dogs I have met in this breed type would not act that way. No joke, my dog chased a cat into a corner and when the cat jumped on the wall as a last reort my dog realized it was coming down on him he fell on his back in terror.... What a killer!!!!!

I'm not nagging on the breed, just explaining its potential as a weapon when SHTF. The cops rush a house and out of the front door runs a pack of terriers or some other common breed. The cops step on them on the way to taking you out. Now, 2 or 3 pit bulls come out slathering and Mr. LEO soils himself and hopefully opens up before losing an arm. See my point. Government don't want that type of adversary facing their troops on the front lines that a German Shepherd couldn't handle. They terrorize you with their dogs, they don't want anyone to have the one up on them..........

[Osiris]

I'm not nagging on the breed, just explaining its potential as a weapon when SHTF. The cops rush a house and out of the front door runs a pack of terriers or some other common breed. The cops step on them on the way to taking you out. Now, 2 or 3 pit bulls come out slathering and Mr. LEO soils himself and hopefully opens up before losing an arm. See my point. Government don't want that type of adversary facing their troops on the front lines that a German Shepherd couldn't handle. They terrorize you with their dogs, they don't want anyone to have the one up on them..........

Gotcha! Maybe the reason for such a viscous msm attack on the breed. :(

[General of Darkness]

I'm not nagging on the breed, just explaining its potential as a weapon when SHTF. The cops rush a house and out of the front door runs a pack of terriers or some other common breed. The cops step on them on the way to taking you out. Now, 2 or 3 pit bulls come out slathering and Mr. LEO soils himself and hopefully opens up before losing an arm. See my point. Government don't want that type of adversary facing their troops on the front lines that a German Shepherd couldn't handle. They terrorize you with their dogs, they don't want anyone to have the one up on them..........

Well first off, I don't like pits because I think they're ugly, and that Leroys and Mestizos with absolutely no brain power that backyard breed them and produce a pile of crap. Oh they might be dog aggressive, and aggressive as a whole but for the post part it's out of fear. Some cholos came to training with badass muther fucking pit and it was a pussy when you put some pressure on it.

However, I will say this. The pitbull is an EXCELLENT dog when purchased from a good breeder, just like any breed. Excellent with kids, clear headed, good with other dogs, and overall an exceptional example of mans best friend.

Now back to your point about cops rushing the house. If I use my dogs Enzo and Shelby as an example. During the night Shelby is in a crate in the living room and Enzo is either in the living room or in my bed. Their job is only there to provide warning. They hear the differences between my neighbors cars and GOD forbid there's more than one person outside and they say ANYTHING to each other and they don't recognize the voice. They've alerted me to people that were "new" to the neighbor to the point I was looking out my peep hole before they even got out of their cars. A swat team would give me enough time to make the decisions I need to make.

If lets say that they did get into the house without my dogs alerting, which I'm 99.9% sure wouldn't happen, but if they did, the only result would be one, maybe two fucked up cops and Enzo lying on the floor dead, Shelby shot dead in her crate with the potential at that point of me avenging my bests friends which ultimately results in my death. I just hope I'm never put in that position.

And sometimes it just happens. Divershity and affirmative action and low requirements and lazy make things like this happen. Don't worry not graphic. FYI - The dog was a lab.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib8xUvy_AoU

While Midnight Rambler and I joke about our dogs as meat shields, they're much more than that. I'm not sure if there's a Heaven or not, but if there is, I would fully expect to show up to see my friends and relatives there waiting for me, each of them holding the dogs that have graced me with their love and kindness throughout my life. The damn thought of it brings a tear to my eyes.

[Osiris]

I don't see how you think they are ugly? Why come? (idiocracy) I think they are beautiful! Pure muscle! A great specimen IMHO. I am obviously biased but still.

May I ask why your dogs are kenneled at night? I was told as a training perspective that I should keep my dog kenneled but other than that I don't see the reason. I actually see it as a disadvantage to the dog and us. Say during the day my house gets broken into or catches on fire, all unlikely, but why keep my dog locked up? My boy was kenneled until he was 6 month old as a protection for him and my shoes :), once I knew he was trustworthy not to destroy anything he was free.

As far as the video, the question about the amount of money, there is no amount!!!! I don't care if the money gets me out of the city with all the survivor gear I need! There is no amount of money worth my dog!

[steyr_m]

I don't like them.

My brother was almost attacked by one. We were visiting friends and their dog was well treated and they were ideal dog owners [all that you hear about it's the owner that makes the difference is bunk]. He was watching TV and found himself alone with the dog when suddenly it was growling at him. He screamed for the owners, who came in and took the dog away.

He could have been a statistic....

[midnight rambler]

OT: The US Marines chose working Dobermans as their 'Devil Dogs' in the Pacific during WWII, and for good reason - with the courage they possess* they are very well suited to the task.

*excluding the pussified American show lines which the hardness has been bred out of

http://www.familydobes.com/wdtraining72USMC_Devil_Dogs_Doberman_Pinschers_Tra ining_1943_Photo.jpg
http://www.wtv-zone.com/Hahnsflyboys/MoD/bou3.jpg

http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/dobermanhj-600x461.jpg
3518
http://dpca.org/images/history/war%20dog%20platoon%20on%20iwo%20jima_small.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_pPsuc9rvU4Y/Sx77pAhMYuI/AAAAAAAAA7A/k_QWIJoaO5g/s400/Marine+and+his+Doberman+searching+a+cave+at+Iwo+Ji ma.jpg
http://www.angelfire.com/al3/doberman/images/soldier.jpg
http://www.dpca.org/faithful/images/vip/2nd_War_Dog_Platoon.jpg
http://images.ocregister.com/newsimages/2009/07/17/b78529065z120090717180107000g7aipikr1_lg.jpg
http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/595836-4/iwo+jima+war+dog
http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/npswapa/extContent/usmc/pcn-190-003141-00/images/fig22.jpg

[midnight rambler]

http://image2.findagrave.com/photos250/photos/2006/182/14798700_115187968062.jpg

http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000RQ.Xm7iawKQ/s/750/600/WWII-in-the-Pacific-Devil-Dog.jpg
http://www.dobermantalk.com/attachments/doberman-related-chat/14334d1310400359-2012-dobermantalk-calendar-july-top-10-vote-now-doberman_pinscher_andy_at_bougainville_wwii_photo. jpg
http://houston.culturemap.com/site_media/uploads/photos/2010-01-22/War_Dogs_of_the_Pacific_dog_handlers_Edmund_Adamsk i_Big_Boy.525w_700h.jpg
http://www.dpca.org/faithful/images/vip/Shepperd_News.jpg
http://legard.homestead.com/wdjack72Doberman_Pinscher_Jack_at_Bougainville_WWI I_Photo.jpg
http://s3.hubimg.com/u/6796930_f520.jpg
http://lh3.ggpht.com/-KNBV_raGJP4/SyHIVTesrUI/AAAAAAAAEU4/kFRRRY0NKn4/WAR_DOGS_DVD-a18.jpg
http://standeyo.com/NEWS/09_Animals/09_Animals_pics/091111.Always-Faithful.jpg

[General of Darkness]

I don't see how you think they are ugly? Why come? (idiocracy) I think they are beautiful! Pure muscle! A great specimen IMHO. I am obviously biased but still.

May I ask why your dogs are kenneled at night? I was told as a training perspective that I should keep my dog kenneled but other than that I don't see the reason. I actually see it as a disadvantage to the dog and us. Say during the day my house gets broken into or catches on fire, all unlikely, but why keep my dog locked up? My boy was kenneled until he was 6 month old as a protection for him and my shoes :), once I knew he was trustworthy not to destroy anything he was free.

As far as the video, the question about the amount of money, there is no amount!!!! I don't care if the money gets me out of the city with all the survivor gear I need! There is no amount of money worth my dog!

Osiris, I just find them ugly. As a kid I grew up watching the Doberman Gang, and after 47 year, Enzo is my first doberman because I kept on taking in strays and hard cases. It's really personal preferences, why does someone like Porsches over Ferrari's?

Regarding the Kenneling part. While I truly love my dogs with every breathing breath, they are working dogs. I'm spending a lot of time and money training them and their focus must be on ME. Trust me when I say this, dogs have much more fun with other dogs than with humans. So to keep them focused you kennel them and remove the desire for interaction with dogs. It sounds screwed up but it's really not. Also I fucked up with Enzo and allowed him to play with my other dogs. He was kenneled until until he was about 6 months old when I wasn't home in a 12x12 pen and when I got home he was allowed to play with me and everyone. Apparently my old female rottie terrorized him when I wasn't home and then she passed when he was about 8 months old. I never knew that until the first time we were doing a test run for his behavioral test and the women that was going to trial with me had a rottie and he flipped out, wanted to kill the rottie and was reactionary towards me. YES, dogs will remember a breed or look.

Also keep in mind, Enzo and Shelby aren't neutered. They both come from different lines, so I can't have an "accident" happen, and she actually came into heat on Monday, so Enzo and her are fricken pisses me off right now. Someday, I think what we'll do is have an out cross with her and Enzo just because his genetics and hers are damn nice, but we first have to line breed her which will probably happen on her next heat cycle because we've already got 11 puppies and we want exceptional homes for them. So next March puppies from Shelby and maybe this time next year an Enzo Shelby breeding.

Now I didn't recognize some of this hierarchy shit that these monkeys do. But if you take the time to watch this video. This was when Enzo was 16 WEEKS old. You'll see Indy being the mom, and my rottie Jinx completely avoiding him. I also think there are a few things in play here. I found Jinx on the 605 and 10 freeway completely emaciated. Ribs showing, the whole nine yards, we don't know old she was but I'm guessing 2, regardless, I had her for 10 years. So when the puppy showed up she was an old woman. Probably joint pain, thinking about OMG there's another mouth to feed, this punk is crazy, because she'd never experienced a crazy puppy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtqeoefOD8Y

You probably didn't know this but two males rarely fight to the death, and a male will allow a female to kick the living shit out of him, and females that aren't neutered will fight to the death.

So let me ask you a question Osiris. Am I being a dick, or just looking out for the welfare of my dogs? BTW, when I leave a crate open, Enzo will go into one on his own and fall asleep, it's a safe place for them.

[k-os]

Having had only small dogs all of my life, I have pretty much been afraid of all big dogs. Lab, standard poodle, pit bull, boxer, dalmatian, irish setter, mutt . . . it doesn't matter. I look at their mouths and think, "OK, you can bite my face off", whereas my dogs can maybe draw blood from someone's finger. (I realize there are advantages to having a larger breed.)

Even though I am not that comfortable with larger breeds, I have spent time with boxers, labs and pit bulls that were the pets of friends. They've all been super gentle and sweet. My vet and vet tech say that the most vicious dogs they come across are cocker spaniels, just as a side note. I've met a few of those and they seem like really dumb, super loving dogs to me. I think there is validity with regard to who is raising them, and how they are treated and trained.

What those dogs did to that car in the OP is freakin' scary! Seriously. It may be in the media because it is sensational, but it is . . . sensational!

[willie pete]

Four snarling pit bulls savage a MINIVAN to try to reach terrified kitten inside (but it got away after 25-mile ride hiding under hood)



Pit bull terriers scratch and bite at Dodge minivan to get kitten that had run inside to escape
Vehicle suffered a flat tire and damage to the bumper and fender in the attack
Minivan's owner, who also owned the dogs, then drove 25 miles with the cat still hiding in the vehicle
Kitten is healthy and now up for adoption


By Associated Press (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=&authornamef=Associated+Press) and Daily Mail Reporter (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=&authornamef=Daily+Mail+Reporter)
PUBLISHED: 18:00 GMT, 22 August 2012 | UPDATED: 20:27 GMT, 22 August 2012





Savage pit bulls trying to get to a stray kitten hiding in the engine compartment of a minivan flattened the vehicle's tire and chewed away big chunks of the fender and bumper.
Four pit bull terriers had chased the kitten into the engine compartment of a Dodge minivan, which was parked in Banning, California.
The animals belonged to the owner of the vehicle.


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/08/22/article-2192149-14A6F33D000005DC-192_634x423.jpg Savage: A group of bloodthirsty pit bulls caused major damage to this minivan while trying to get to a cat that was hiding in the car's engine compartment

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/08/22/article-2192149-14A71059000005DC-357_634x455.jpg Vicious: The minivan suffered damage to its fender and bumper after the dogs had their way with the vehicle



The man, who was not identified, changed the tire on Monday, and - without knowing about the scared kitten inside - drove 25 miles from Banning to Palm Springs.



To add to its amazing tale of survival, the kitten also survived the drive, and had moved into a hollow part of the front bumper before it was discovered by the driver.

Palm Springs' Desert Sun newspaper reported (http://www.mydesert.com/article/20120822/NEWS08/208220303/Dogs-damage-van-trying-get-kitten?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CFrontpage%7 Cp&nclick_check=1) that an animal control officer freed the feline following a 40-minute process that involved removing the bumper.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/08/22/article-2192149-14A71D26000005DC-730_634x339.jpg Angry: The driver of the minivan was also the owner of the dogs, similar to the one pictured here



http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/08/22/article-2192149-14A71061000005DC-50_634x473.jpg Bodywork: The front bumper of the minivan had to be removed to get the kitten out

Surprisingly, the small cat was found to be in good health when examined by veterinarians.

The paper reported that officials named the kitten 'Fender-Linx' due to the conditions of her rescue.
The kitten is now available for adoption at the Palm Springs Animal Shelter.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/08/22/article-2192149-14A71054000005DC-914_634x412.jpg Safe and sound: The kitten, which was given the name 'Fender Linx' by officials, is now available for adoption


Read more:

MyDesert.com: Dogs damage van trying to get kitten (http://www.mydesert.com/article/20120822/NEWS08/208220303/Dogs-damage-van-trying-get-kitten?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CFrontpage%7 Cp&nclick_check=1)


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2192149/Pit-bulls-savage-minivan-violent-bid-kitten-hiding-inside.html




they want to go after cats? .......here's an idea, let' em attack these cats....

http://youtu.be/f_KPmxBcb1c

[General of Darkness]

What those dogs did to that car in the OP is freakin' scary! Seriously. It may be in the media because it is sensational, but it is . . . sensational!

This is why you kennel your dogs. I've got 10 silver ounces that says those dogs weren't trained, or neutered and they were feeding off each other and the owner promoted prey drive.

There are several types of dogs and let me make 3 categories.

1 - Dog one, works for pleasing the owner
2 - Dog two, works for pleasing himself
3 - Dog three, doesn't know shit and is confused all the time

There are four drives that we work with. There are probably more but these are the ones I work understand.

1 - Aggression
2 - Defense
3 - Prey
4 - Defense/fear

Enzo is in category 2, he's a fucking punk. He's at training to please himself. And this next Saturday is going to be come to Jesus time. And it's completely MY fault that he's this way. But he works in 2 drives, aggression and prey.

This is why Schutzhund and working dog sports are so fucking key to producing dogs that love and kiss the baby, and will die protecting it, you, your family and be the "meat shield", that gives you time to survive.

Here's his FIRST session in schutzhung and me the noob completely unaware of what I know now. This is from December 2010. This whole play, from barking and biting is from getting the prey drive into everything else we're doing.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CURDcR7ySZo

So I venture to guess after a bunch of typing, the owner is probably a dickhead. Probably someone the didn't need to exist.


.

[zap]

I always liked this saying from the Basque people.

1 dog, 1 dog
2 dogs, 1 dog
3 dogs , no dog

The Basque around here are sheep herders.

[Osiris]

I don't like them.

My brother was almost attacked by one. We were visiting friends and their dog was well treated and they were ideal dog owners [all that you hear about it's the owner that makes the difference is bunk]. He was watching TV and found himself alone with the dog when suddenly it was growling at him. He screamed for the owners, who came in and took the dog away.

He could have been a statistic....

This is laughable. Sorry, but I refuse to believe the whole idea of the perfect dog with the perfect owner and all of a sudden the dog snapped. There is always a sign, whether the owner wants to be responsible and see the sign or not, there is always a sign.


Osiris, I just find them ugly. As a kid I grew up watching the Doberman Gang, and after 47 year, Enzo is my first doberman because I kept on taking in strays and hard cases. It's really personal preferences, why does someone like Porsches over Ferrari's?

Regarding the Kenneling part. While I truly love my dogs with every breathing breath, they are working dogs. I'm spending a lot of time and money training them and their focus must be on ME. Trust me when I say this, dogs have much more fun with other dogs than with humans. So to keep them focused you kennel them and remove the desire for interaction with dogs. It sounds screwed up but it's really not. Also I fucked up with Enzo and allowed him to play with my other dogs. He was kenneled until until he was about 6 months old when I wasn't home in a 12x12 pen and when I got home he was allowed to play with me and everyone. Apparently my old female rottie terrorized him when I wasn't home and then she passed when he was about 8 months old. I never knew that until the first time we were doing a test run for his behavioral test and the women that was going to trial with me had a rottie and he flipped out, wanted to kill the rottie and was reactionary towards me. YES, dogs will remember a breed or look.

Also keep in mind, Enzo and Shelby aren't neutered. They both come from different lines, so I can't have an "accident" happen, and she actually came into heat on Monday, so Enzo and her are fricken pisses me off right now. Someday, I think what we'll do is have an out cross with her and Enzo just because his genetics and hers are damn nice, but we first have to line breed her which will probably happen on her next heat cycle because we've already got 11 puppies and we want exceptional homes for them. So next March puppies from Shelby and maybe this time next year an Enzo Shelby breeding.

Now I didn't recognize some of this hierarchy shit that these monkeys do. But if you take the time to watch this video. This was when Enzo was 16 WEEKS old. You'll see Indy being the mom, and my rottie Jinx completely avoiding him. I also think there are a few things in play here. I found Jinx on the 605 and 10 freeway completely emaciated. Ribs showing, the whole nine yards, we don't know old she was but I'm guessing 2, regardless, I had her for 10 years. So when the puppy showed up she was an old woman. Probably joint pain, thinking about OMG there's another mouth to feed, this punk is crazy, because she'd never experienced a crazy puppy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtqeoefOD8Y

You probably didn't know this but two males rarely fight to the death, and a male will allow a female to kick the living shit out of him, and females that aren't neutered will fight to the death.

So let me ask you a question Osiris. Am I being a dick, or just looking out for the welfare of my dogs? BTW, when I leave a crate open, Enzo will go into one on his own and fall asleep, it's a safe place for them.

I was not questioning you as an owner or how much you love your dogs, I was really simply asking you your reasoning of kenneling and explaining why I do not. I completely understand keeping dogs as working dogs etc.
My pit mix growing up loved his kennel and always went there to rest. I know it is a great safe heaven for some dogs.


Having had only small dogs all of my life, I have pretty much been afraid of all big dogs. Lab, standard poodle, pit bull, boxer, dalmatian, irish setter, mutt . . . it doesn't matter. I look at their mouths and think, "OK, you can bite my face off", whereas my dogs can maybe draw blood from someone's finger. (I realize there are advantages to having a larger breed.)

Even though I am not that comfortable with larger breeds, I have spent time with boxers, labs and pit bulls that were the pets of friends. They've all been super gentle and sweet. My vet and vet tech say that the most vicious dogs they come across are cocker spaniels, just as a side note. I've met a few of those and they seem like really dumb, super loving dogs to me. I think there is validity with regard to who is raising them, and how they are treated and trained.

What those dogs did to that car in the OP is freakin' scary! Seriously. It may be in the media because it is sensational, but it is . . . sensational!

Funny, as I don't care for small dogs. Not that I don't like them, but I wouldn't go out and get one. I grew up with big dogs, they are great for protection and cuddling! Lol I worked as a water meter reader once and while walking across the street in the opposite direction of it's house a dachshund ran up behind me and bit me in the back of the leg, no reason at all (as far as i was concerned) but because it is a small dog and didn't do much damage it is somehow acceptable.... Kinda like if I just have a hand gun it is ok but an AK is just ridiculous....


This is why you kennel your dogs. I've got 10 silver ounces that says those dogs weren't trained, or neutered and they were feeding off each other and the owner promoted prey drive.

There are several types of dogs and let me make 3 categories.

1 - Dog one, works for pleasing the owner
2 - Dog two, works for pleasing himself
3 - Dog three, doesn't know shit and is confused all the time

There are four drives that we work with. There are probably more but these are the ones I work understand.

1 - Aggression
2 - Defense
3 - Prey
4 - Defense/fear

Enzo is in category 2, he's a fucking punk. He's at training to please himself. And this next Saturday is going to be come to Jesus time. And it's completely MY fault that he's this way. But he works in 2 drives, aggression and prey.

This is why Schutzhund and working dog sports are so fucking key to producing dogs that love and kiss the baby, and will die protecting it, you, your family and be the "meat shield", that gives you time to survive.

Here's his FIRST session in schutzhung and me the noob completely unaware of what I know now. This is from December 2010. This whole play, from barking and biting is from getting the prey drive into everything else we're doing.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CURDcR7ySZo

So I venture to guess after a bunch of typing, the owner is probably a dickhead. Probably someone the didn't need to exist.


.

Serious question, what is the purpose of the training in the vid? Pm if you want, I am truly interested.

[General of Darkness]

Osiris, it's transitioning the dog from prey. Why do dogs chase cats, etc.? It's their genetic drive, survival, food. What you saw there was that Enzo couldn't get the prey until he got involved. The transition was making him do what we wanted. Until he barked the prey wouldn't move, then you transition barking makes the rabbit run it makes the sleeve move. However, if Enzo didn't have the genetics for even have prey drive, he would have just become a pet and I wouldn't even try to explain this stuff

[skid]

OT: The US Marines chose working Dobermans as their 'Devil Dogs' in the Pacific during WWII, and for good reason - with the courage they possess* they are very well suited to the task.

*excluding the pussified American show lines which the hardness has been bred out of

http://www.familydobes.com/wdtraining72USMC_Devil_Dogs_Doberman_Pinschers_Tra ining_1943_Photo.jpg
http://www.wtv-zone.com/Hahnsflyboys/MoD/bou3.jpg

http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/dobermanhj-600x461.jpg
3518
http://dpca.org/images/history/war%20dog%20platoon%20on%20iwo%20jima_small.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_pPsuc9rvU4Y/Sx77pAhMYuI/AAAAAAAAA7A/k_QWIJoaO5g/s400/Marine+and+his+Doberman+searching+a+cave+at+Iwo+Ji ma.jpg
http://www.angelfire.com/al3/doberman/images/soldier.jpg
http://www.dpca.org/faithful/images/vip/2nd_War_Dog_Platoon.jpg
http://images.ocregister.com/newsimages/2009/07/17/b78529065z120090717180107000g7aipikr1_lg.jpg
http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/595836-4/iwo+jima+war+dog
http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/npswapa/extContent/usmc/pcn-190-003141-00/images/fig22.jpg

You just made the General's day

[iOWNme]

History of the Pit Bull

http://www.pitbull411.com/history.html

The American Pit Bull Terrier is a wonderful dog, well-known for its intelligence, strength, and loyalty. In recent years, the breed has been unfairly villanized as overly aggressive and dangerous. While the pit bull does indeed possess a feisty and spirited character, the history of the breed reveals a much more complex tapestry of temperament and personality. http://www.pitbull411.com/images/history/molossi.jpgLike many modern breeds, it is impossible to be completely sure of the details of the American Pit Bull Terrier's long history. However, many pit bull enthusiasts believe the origins of the breed can be traced back to antiquity and the Molossian family of dogs. The Molossian family of dogs bears the name of the people with whom they were most often associated - the Molossi tribe, a group of people who lived in ancient Greece and favored the use of robust, muscular dogs in warfare. Officially termed canus molossi (dogs of the Molossi), these animals were reknowned for their fierceness, and for their innate ability to intimidate the enemies of the tribe.
During this same time period, it is also believed that the Molossian dogs were used for other purposes. In fact, early Phoenician traders may even have used the Molossians as a bargaining item in their commercial transactions.
http://www.pitbull411.com/images/history/pugnace.jpg The Molossians gave rise to another family of dogs known as the Mastiffs. The early Britons employed a variation of the Mastiffs as pugnaces - fighting dogs that could be used in either a guardianship or warfare capacity. When the Roman emperor Claudius defeated the Briton Chief Caractacus in 50 AD, the powerful pugnaces piqued his interest. He quickly seized on the opportunity and began exporting select quantities of the dogs back home to satiate his countrymen's appetite for entertainment in the arenas and coliseums of Rome.
Once in Rome, the British dogs were crossbred with their Roman counterparts. From the years 50 AD to 410 AD, the breed was widely disseminated throughout the Roman Empire for use as fighting dogs. Along the way they mixed with other indigenous breeds throughout Europe, creating a genetic melting pot for the bulldogs that are thought to have been the immediate antecedents of the American Pit Bull Terrier.
http://www.pitbull411.com/images/history/bull_baiting.jpg Sadly, the Romans would not be the last to use pit bulls in cruel and grisly blood sports. When the Normans invaded England in 1066, they introduced a new sport called baiting. Interestingly enough, baiting originated with butchers who kept dogs (called Bullenbeissers) to handle unruly bulls as they were herded to the market for slaughter. When a bull stepped out of line or exhibited uncontrollable behavior, the dogs would clamp down on its nose and simply hang on until the handler could regain control of the wayward animal.
Like most dog owners, the butchers were proud of their canine companions and their stubborn tenacity in dealing with the much larger, and potentially dangerous bulls. Consequently, pubic displays were arranged to showcase the dogs' abilities and, quite frankly, to appease the multitudes that attended baiting events for their entertainment value.
By the 16th century, nearly every town in England had its own baiting ring. The popularity of baiting events was unparalleled at the time, as was their ability to draw spectators from every level of society. Their popularity was further enhanced by the misguided perception that prolonged torture ensured the tenderness of the meat.
In baiting events, no more than one or two dogs were unleashed on the bull. They were trained to unrelentingly harass the bulls until they collapsed from fatigue, their injuries, or both. These episodes lasted for prolonged periods, sometimes as long as three or four hours. Eventually, the public's grew bored with bulls and introduced a creative flair to the sport, baiting dogs with bears, boars, horses, and even monkeys!
http://www.pitbull411.com/images/history/alaunt.jpg In 1406, Edmond de Langley - the Duke of York - produced a short treatise for Henry IV entitled, "The Master of the Game and of Hawks." In it, he described a descendent of the ancient Mastiffs that he called the "Alaunt", the most commonly used baiting dog of the era. A 1585 painting of the Alaunts hunting wild boar portrayed lean, muscular animals with profound similarities to the dogs we know as pit bulls.
Baiting was made illegal by the British parliament in 1835. However, this legislation did little to satiate the public's desire to watch the spectacle of dogs in fighting sports. As a result, their attention turned to a variety of other pursuits such as ratting - a practice in which a dog was thrown in a pit with a varying number of rats. The dogs raced against the clock and each other to determine which one could kill the most rats in the shortest period of time. The "pit" in pit bulls comes from the fact that ratting occurred in a pit that kept the rats from escaping.
Ultimately the public's fickle gaze fell on the sport of dog fighting, primarily because it could be more easily hidden from the prying eyes of the law than baiting and other fighting sports. Since dog fighting required smaller and more agile animals than the ones that were used in baiting, fighting bulldogs were bred with terriers who were known for their feistiness and indefatigable focus. The result was the bull-and-terrier, more commonly known as the first pit bull terrier - a muscular, canine gladiator bred specifically for combat with other dogs.
http://www.pitbull411.com/images/history/pit_fighting_sm.jpg As you can imagine, dog fighting was an extremely cruel and sadistic pursuit. The canine combatants were put through a rigorous training process depriving them of normal contact with humans and instilling in them an intense desire to spill the blood of their opponents. It was not unusual for these dogs to be fed a diet of blood and raw meat, and to be kept in complete darkness apart from the few hours a day they spent training with their handlers. To further enhance the dogs' eagerness for the kill, handlers forced them to run on a stationary treadmill with a weaker animal in front of them, but just out of reach. At the end of the exercise, the dogs were allowed to kill the animal as their reward.
During the course of a dog fight, the dogs were expected to fearlessly hurl themselves at their opponents without flinching or hesitation. If a dog turned away, it was viewed as a weakness and could be grounds for forfeit. Even if the hesitant animal was lucky enough to survive the encounter, he was still not out of the woods. Many handlers killed their own dogs because they believed a dog that hesitated even once could no longer be relied on to fight with the verve and tenacity the sport required.
http://www.pitbull411.com/images/history/hunting.jpg When English immigrants came to America, their dogs came with them. Not surprisingly, dog fighting was common in America throughout the 19th century. However, as the immigrants traveled west, the pit bull took on a broader and more humane function. On the frontier, pit bulls assumed the role of an all-purpose dog. In addition to herding cattle and sheep they served as faithful guardians, protecting families and livestock from the ever-present threat of thieves and wild animals.
Despite their gallant history, pit bulls faced an uphill battle in gaining official recognition. The American Kennel Club was formed in 1884 for the sole purpose of promoting the interests of purebred dogs and their owners. To accomplish this, they sponsored events designed to test various breeds in the areas of performance and conformation.
Conformation events judge the dogs according to the breed standard - a pre-established set of guidelines that describe the most-highly valued physical characteristics of each breed. Performance events, on the other hand, test the dogs according to the function for which they were bred. Some of the more common performance categories include the working, sporting, and herding categories.
The performance events created an immediate problem for the pit bull since the function for which they were bred - fighting - was illegal. Furthermore, the AKC understandably refused to remotely endorse anything related to dog fighting.
In response to the AKC's unwillingness to include pit bulls as a bonafide breed, in 1898 an alternative group was formed - the UKC (United Kennel Club). The purpose of the UKC was to certify breeds that were not eligible for certification by the AKC. Not surprisingly, the UKC's charter member was the American Pit Bull Terrier.
Ultimately the AKC did recognize the pit bull in 1936, albeit under the designation of the Staffordshire Terrier, named after the region of England where the crossbreeding of bulldogs and terriers is thought to have begun. Today, the AKC continues to include the American Staffordshire Terrier in its registry, although ironically this has now developed into a breed that is distinct from its American Pit Bull Terrier cousin.
http://www.pitbull411.com/images/history/stubby.jpg Over the years, the American Pit Bull Terrier has been a beloved symbol of Americana. In World War I, a pit bull named Stubby captured the heart of the nation. Stubby was the unofficial mascot of the 102nd Infantry Division and was credited with saving the lives of several of his human comrades. For his valiant service, Stubby won several medals and was even awarded the rank of sergeant! He came home from the war to a hero's welcome and went on to become the mascot for Georgetown University.
Over the years, many famous Americans have owned pit bulls. Mark Twain, Theodore Roosevelt, Laura Ingalls Wilder, Thomas Edison, Woodrow Wilson, John Steinbeck, Helen Keller, and Fred Astaire have all been proud to own dogs of this breed. The actor Ken Howard (the father on the TV show Crossing Jordan) even credits his pit bull with saving his life.
Pit bulls have crept in the hearts of Americans through a variety of ways. For years, RCA recording company looked to a pit bull as its corporate logo. Similarly, Buster Brown Shoes used a pit bull as the cornerstone of their marketing campaign.



But, perhaps the most famous pit bull was Petey, the adorable ring-eyed cutey featured on the TV show Little Rascals. In no time at all, Petey secured a place alongside Alfalfa, Spanky, and the other rascals as a national treasure. A little known fact about Petey is that his telltale ring actually changed form one eye to the next between seasons of the TV show. Although no one knows for sure why this happened, it is rumored that the original Petey was poisoned and was replaced by a look-a-like, or at least a look-a-like with markings that necessitated the eye change.
Today, the American Pit Bull Terrier is a beloved animal that is used in a variety of helping functions in society including police dogs, search dogs, therapy dogs, and farm dogs. Even so, negative publicity has led many cities to condemn them as a community problem. This perception has been supported by the prevalence of illegal dog fighting in cities and small towns across America. In recent years, gangs have taken a fancy to dog fighting and elevated the ownership of trained fighting dogs as a status symbol.
Pit bulls have born the brunt of the backlash because of their popularity with dog fighters. This has caused the public to demand legislative action against pit bulls. Yielding to the pressure of their constituents, public officials have banned pit bulls in many civil jurisdictions and others are following suit including insurance companies who reserve the right to cancel a homeowner's policy if it is learned that a pit bull resides on the premises.
The negative treatment of pit bulls in our society is unfortunate to say the least. Pit bulls and people can live harmoniously if given the chance. Training is an important consideration in pit bull ownership. The history of the breed demonstrates that unless he is properly trained and socialized at a young age, this strong-minded dog will quickly attempt to dominate the household. However, with the proper training the American Pit Bull Terrier can be a remarkably loyal and valued member of the family.
Sources Consulted:


Dr. Dieter Fleig, The History of Fighting Dogs, trans. by William Charlton, (Neptune, NJ: TFH Publications, 1996)
D. Caroline Coile, Pit Bulls for Dummies, (Indianapolis, Indiana: Wiley Publishing Inc., 2001)
American Pit Bull Registry (http://www.pitbullregistry.com/Pit%20Bull%20History.htm)
BulldogBreeds.com (http://www.BulldogBreeds.com/americanpitbullterrier.html) (http://www.bulldogbreeds.com/americanpitbullterrier.html)
The Bulldog Information Library - Molossars (http://www.bulldoginformation.com/ molossers-mastiff-type-dogs.html)
Dog Owner's Guide - American Pit Bull Terrier (http://www.canismajor.com/ dog/amerpit.html)
The Real Pit Bull (http://www.realpitbull.com/history.html)

Author: This article was researched and written by Timothy Morral for Pitbull 411.

[iOWNme]

Sorry guys but the Pit Bull is the most decorated dog in War history....

Sergeant Stubby - Sergeant Stubby (1916 or 1917 – March 16, 1926), was the most decorated war dog (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_dog) of World War I (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I) and the only dog to be promoted to sergeant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergeant#United_States) through combat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergeant_Stubby

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/Sergeant_Stubby.jpgEarly life

America's first war dog, Stubby, served 18 months 'over there' and participated in seventeen battles on the Western Front. He saved his regiment from surprise mustard gas attacks, located and comforted the wounded, and even once caught a German spy by the seat of his pants. Back home his exploits were front page news of every major newspaper.
Stubby's breed was unknown, as no one ever discovered where he hailed from originally. One day he appeared at Yale Field in New Haven, Connecticut (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Haven,_Connecticut); while a group of soldiers were training, stopping to make friends with soldiers as they drilled. One soldier, Corporal Robert Conroy, developed a fondness for the dog. When it became time for the outfit to ship out, Conroy hid Stubby on board the troop ship.
Cesar Millan, the dog whisperer, has an article about this dog on his website, titled "Famous Pit Bulls."[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergeant_Stubby#cite_note-0)
Military service



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/99/Question_book-new.svg/50px-Question_book-new.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Question_book-new.svg)

This section does not cite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources) any references or sources (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability). (March 2012)



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/46/Sergeant_Stubby_3.jpg/220px-Sergeant_Stubby_3.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sergeant_Stubby_3.jpg) http://bits.wikimedia.org/static-1.20wmf9/skins/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sergeant_Stubby_3.jpg)
Sergeant Stubby wearing his uniform and medals


Stubby served with the 102nd Infantry, 26th (Yankee) Division (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/26th_Infantry_Division_%28United_States%29) in the trenches (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trenches) in France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France) for 18 months and participated in four offensives and 17 battles. He entered combat on February 5, 1918 at Chemin des Dames (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemin_des_Dames), north of Soissons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soissons), and was under constant fire, day and night for over a month. In April 1918, during a raid to take Schieprey, Stubby was wounded in the foreleg by the retreating Germans throwing hand grenades (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_grenades). He was sent to the rear for convalescence, and as he had done on the front was able to improve morale. When he recovered from his wounds, Stubby returned to the trenches.
After being gassed himself, Stubby learned to warn his unit of poison gas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_gas) attacks, located wounded soldiers in no man's land (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_man%27s_land), and — since he could hear the whine of incoming artillery shells before humans could — became very adept at letting his unit know when to duck for cover. He was solely responsible for capturing a German spy in the Argonne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meuse-Argonne_Offensive). Following the retaking of Château-Thierry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C3%A2teau-Thierry) by the US, the thankful women of the town made Stubby a chamois coat on which were pinned his many medals. There is also a legend that while in Paris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris,_France) with Corporal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal#United_States) Conroy, Stubby saved a young girl from being hit by a car. At the end of the war, Conroy smuggled Stubby home.
After the war

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/Sgt_Stubby%27s_brick_at_Liberty_Memorial.jpg/220px-Sgt_Stubby%27s_brick_at_Liberty_Memorial.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sgt_Stubby%27s_brick_at_Liberty_Memorial.jpg) http://bits.wikimedia.org/static-1.20wmf9/skins/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sgt_Stubby%27s_brick_at_Liberty_Memorial.jpg)
Sergeant Stubby's brick at the WWI Memorial


After returning home, Stubby became a celebrity and marched in, and normally led, many parades across the country. He met Presidents Woodrow Wilson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodrow_Wilson), Calvin Coolidge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvin_Coolidge), and Warren G. Harding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_G._Harding). Starting in 1921, he attended Georgetown University Law Center (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgetown_University_Law_Center) with Conroy, and became the Georgetown Hoyas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgetown_Hoyas)' team mascot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_the_Bulldog). He would be given the football (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_football) at halftime (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halftime) and would nudge the ball around the field to the amusement of the fans.
Stubby was made a life member of the American Legion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Legion), the Red Cross (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Cross), and the YMCA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YMCA). In 1921, the Humane Education Society (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Humane_Education_Society&action=edit&redlink=1) awarded him a special gold medal for service to his country. It was presented by General John Pershing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Pershing).[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]
In 1926, Stubby died in Conroy's arms. His remains are featured in The Price of Freedom: Americans at War exhibit at the Smithsonian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smithsonian). Stubby was honored with a brick in the Walk of Honor at the United States World War I monument, Liberty Memorial (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Memorial), in Kansas City (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_City,_Missouri) at a ceremony held on Armistice Day (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armistice_Day), November 11, 2006.
Medals and Awards



3 Service Stripes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_Stripe)
Yankee Division (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee_Division) YD Patch
French Medal Battle of Verdun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Verdun)
1st Annual American Legion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Legion) Convention Medal
New Haven World War I Veterans Medal
Republic of France Grande War Medal
St Mihiel Campaign (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Saint-Mihiel) Medal
Wound stripe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wound_stripe), replaced with Purple Heart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_Heart) when introduced in 1932
Chateau Thierry Campaign (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ch%C3%A2teau-Thierry_%281918%29) Medal
6th Annual American Legion Convention
Humane Education Society Gold Medal

Stubby was also featured in the Brave Beasts exhibit at the Legermuseum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legermuseum) in Delft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delft), The Netherlands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Netherlands)

[iOWNme]

The Truth about Pit Bulls

http://www.dontbullymybreed.org/




The American Pit Bull Terrier was the most popular family dog in the beginning of the 20th century. What happened? How did this breed become so maligned and misunderstood?






http://www.dontbullymybreed.org/images/girl_dog_doll-T4.jpg
http://www.dontbullymybreed.org/images/toddler-T4.jpg
http://www.dontbullymybreed.org/images/2girls_dog-T4.jpg


http://www.dontbullymybreed.org/images/bethesda1-T4.jpg
http://www.dontbullymybreed.org/images/XmasNightAfter-T4.jpg
http://www.dontbullymybreed.org/images/sailorboy-T4.jpg


http://www.dontbullymybreed.org/images/woman6891-T4.jpg







More at link.....

[DMac]

People are freaking clueless and the media has a hard on for sensationalizing the 'evil pit bull'. I got a silver dollar that says the breeds actually involved in the OP weren't even pit bulls but some terrier mix.

There is no such thing as a bad dog, only shitty people. Even a 'bad dog' can be rehabilitated with about a month's worth of proper care.

[k-os]

People are freaking clueless and the media has a hard on for sensationalizing the 'evil pit bull'. I got a silver dollar that says the breeds actually involved in the OP weren't even pit bulls but some terrier mix.

There is no such thing as a bad dog, only shitty people. Even a 'bad dog' can be rehabilitated with about a month's worth of proper care.

You are probably right about your wager . . . all we have to do is think about how every rifle is an AK47 in the media's eyes.

[DMac]

You are probably right about your wager . . . all we have to do is think about how every rifle is an AK47 in the media's eyes.

Exactly, all rifles not obviously bolt action are AK47 Assault rifles, just like how all big terriers are evil pit bulls...

[Tumbleweed]

I don't care what breed of dog a person has. The owner of the dog should be held responsible for whatever damage they cause to another person or their property. Where I am their is a leash law that says any dog that's not on a leash or off the owners property can be shot. Many are shot for harassing livestock. If you've got a mean dog that likes to bite people whether they are strangers or not the owner needs to be held accountable for whatever they do. Maybe some jail time for assault for the owner when a dog bites someone just the same as if the owner bit someone and would be held accountable.

Dog owners always claim their dogs are sweet, kind and gentle and wouldn't attack or harass people, wildlife or livestock. I know firsthand that's bullshit. If someone is going to own a dog they need to take full responsibility for whatever their dog does.

[midnight rambler]

Even a 'bad dog' can be rehabilitated with about a month's worth of proper care.

You could not possibly be more wrong about that.

[General of Darkness]

There is no such thing as a bad dog, only shitty people. Even a 'bad dog' can be rehabilitated with about a month's worth of proper care.

DMac I wish this were true, but it's not. Just like in humans, some dogs can get to point that they're just to dangerous and no matter what you do they won't change and need to be put down. Heck about 25% of our society need to be put down.

[iOWNme]

You could not possibly be more wrong about that.

Really?

A couple years ago i went to a Pit Bull convention. A guy there had a rescued Pit Bull that he recused at age 8. It had been used in dog fighting for many years. It had no ears left, and was badly scarred. This dog was the most obedient dog i have ever seen. They did a 10 minute show where this dog was put through all kinds of different stuff, all while remaining on the right side of his owner. It was like watching a row of chinease soldiers march in unison. I have never seen anything like it before.

DOnt get me wrong, im not saying that means the dog would never attack anyone, but you cannot say that about any dog anyway.

[k-os]

I don't care what breed of dog a person has. The owner of the dog should be held responsible for whatever damage they cause to another person or their property. Where I am their is a leash law that says any dog that's not on a leash or off the owners property can be shot. Many are shot for harassing livestock. If you've got a mean dog that likes to bite people whether they are strangers or not the owner needs to be held accountable for whatever they do. Maybe some jail time for assault for the owner when a dog bites someone just the same as if the owner bit someone and would be held accountable.

Dog owners always claim their dogs are sweet, kind and gentle and wouldn't attack or harass people, wildlife or livestock. I know firsthand that's bullshit. If someone is going to own a dog they need to take full responsibility for whatever their dog does.

It's hard to image there being any laws where you live. :)

I just remembered, Tumbleweed, even sweet little Trystan (6 lb. long-coat chihuahua) chased after your turkeys! Ha! What a hoot that was to watch. So yeah, I bet if you would have asked me prior to that if he would have chased anything, I would have said "No, he's a sweetheart and wouldn't hurt a thing." You really never know.

[JDRock]

"the dogs owner" lol what a joke! The dogs were obviously the ones in charge! if the dogs were worth keeping alive, ONE command of the owners would/should have brought them to heel....the mutts should be put down and the "owner" barred from pet ownership of any kind.

[midnight rambler]

Really?



Yes, REALLY.

I've had over 20 adult Doberman(n)s over the past 35 years. I've had to euthanize two adult males because NO ONE could handle them including me, and there were both dogs that I had returned to me which I originally had as puppies in one of my litters. So naturally I loved them and cared for them. Both dogs' problems originated with stupid fucking owners who hosed them up by the way they managed/trained them and the experiences they exposed them to from 7 weeks onto adulthood. The most recent heartbreak was with one of Enzo's littermates. I got him back when he was 14 months old. Due to a set of very unfortunate circumstances I lost the dam the day they were born. I ended up with 8 live puppies and 1 stillborn puppy. I had to care for the survivors 24/7 which meant I had to mix formula, heat it to the right temperature and keep it there (without using a microwave to heat either the water or the formula whatsoever), tube feed each puppy the precise amount of formula (according to each individual's weight which means I had to weigh and record each puppy's weight daily) with a French tube, massage each puppy with a warm damp washcloth until they eliminated, clean up their whelping box, and clean up all the feeding formula apparatus - every four hours, and it took 1.5 hours to complete each cycle. I did this without any outside help except for one day when I dropped them off at my vet's clinic for about 6 hours. After six weeks I had six survivors. So I was very emotionally involved with this particular litter as well has having sunk ~$20k into it (including 3.5 weeks of 24/7 emergency care of the dam). Therefore I was very interested in making sure this 14 month old adult male I had returned to me get properly 'rehabilitated'. This boy showed me totally unprovoked attitude a number of times, snarling and stiffening up out of the blue with nothing I could see which set him off. Then six months after he was returned to me he bit me without holding back, it wasn't merely a 'nip'. About an hour later I had him euthanized at my vet's emergency clinic as my vet and I had already had this discussion on at least a couple of occasions. The point here is if I couldn't handle this particular dog, no one could - I can't have a dog which no one can come and take care of if something were to keep me from taking care of them. My very seasoned vet (over 35 years out of vet school) made a point of saying that from his experience and observations dogs with such behavior never improve, they only get worse. I didn't want to believe what he was saying at first, but now I'm a true believer.

A dog's behavior has EVERYTHING to do with how it is 'programmed' when being raised from puppyhood to adulthood. Garbage in, garbage out - and if the genetics are there for high drive and high aggression one can inadvertently create a really fucked up dog which no one can safely, *predictably* handle, I don't care how good (they think) they are with dogs.

[General of Darkness]

And to add to what MR said. You do NOT, NEVER EVER EVER raise UN-neutered males together. They are predisposed to vie for dominance. As all males go, across the ENTIRE animal kingdom, we think with our dicks. Showing dominance over another male is to make sure that they don't cause a problem when there's a woman to breed with. The negro species is a perfect example of this. Muh dik. The lower you go down the mental scale the more obvious it becomes. But I digress, please continue.

[midnight rambler]

And to add to what MR said. You do NOT, NEVER EVER EVER raise UN-neutered males together. They are predisposed to vie for dominance.

One can also very likely have problems raising to adulthood two female Dobermanns puppies together when the genetics are there for high drive and high aggression - there will be that struggle for dominance between the two of them, much like males. And one of them (or possibly both) will end up being a fucked up dog as an adult. Hell, about 30 years ago I had the most docile, laid back, mellow female Doberman (American show lines) get into a 'to the death' fight with her own adult daughter strictly over jealousy (Doberman(n)s can be very jealous as I found out) as I was putting out the older bitch out of the house and letting the younger bitch in. Right at the door threshold the usually very docile, laid back, and mellow bitch tore into the younger one COMPLETELY unprovoked (they had been kept together since the older one had the younger one as a puppy). The older bitch was so into this 'fight to the death' that she bit the shit out of my hand in the midst of the fight, sending me to the ER to get stitched up. (AFTER my hand was literally torn loose from the bite, I went to the bathroom, wrapped a bath towel around my hand, went back into the kitchen where the fight was still on, and proceeded to grind my boots into each one's head while I had both pinned to the floor - they listened to me then lol)

[Tumbleweed]

It's hard to image there being any laws where you live. :)

I just remembered, Tumbleweed, even sweet little Trystan (6 lb. long-coat chihuahua) chased after your turkeys! Ha! What a hoot that was to watch. So yeah, I bet if you would have asked me prior to that if he would have chased anything, I would have said "No, he's a sweetheart and wouldn't hurt a thing." You really never know.

Good thing he didn't catch them because they'd have knocked the shit out of him. When I was four or five years old I had gobblers knock the shit out of me twice.

[Osiris]

Really?

A couple years ago i went to a Pit Bull convention. A guy there had a rescued Pit Bull that he recused at age 8. It had been used in dog fighting for many years. It had no ears left, and was badly scarred. This dog was the most obedient dog i have ever seen. They did a 10 minute show where this dog was put through all kinds of different stuff, all while remaining on the right side of his owner. It was like watching a row of chinease soldiers march in unison. I have never seen anything like it before.

DOnt get me wrong, im not saying that means the dog would never attack anyone, but you cannot say that about any dog anyway.


Yes, REALLY.

I've had over 20 adult Doberman(n)s over the past 35 years. I've had to euthanize two adult males because NO ONE could handle them including me, and there were both dogs that I had returned to me which I originally had as puppies in one of my litters. So naturally I loved them and cared for them. Both dogs' problems originated with stupid fucking owners who hosed them up by the way they managed/trained them and the experiences they exposed them to from 7 weeks onto adulthood. The most recent heartbreak was with one of Enzo's littermates. I got him back when he was 14 months old. Due to a set of very unfortunate circumstances I lost the dam the day they were born. I ended up with 8 live puppies and 1 stillborn puppy. I had to care for the survivors 24/7 which meant I had to mix formula, heat it to the right temperature and keep it there (without using a microwave to heat either the water or the formula whatsoever), tube feed each puppy the precise amount of formula (according to each individual's weight which means I had to weigh and record each puppy's weight daily) with a French tube, massage each puppy with a warm damp washcloth until they eliminated, clean up their whelping box, and clean up all the feeding formula apparatus - every four hours, and it took 1.5 hours to complete each cycle. I did this without any outside help except for one day when I dropped them off at my vet's clinic for about 6 hours. After six weeks I had six survivors. So I was very emotionally involved with this particular litter as well has having sunk ~$20k into it (including 3.5 weeks of 24/7 emergency care of the dam). Therefore I was very interested in making sure this 14 month old adult male I had returned to me get properly 'rehabilitated'. This boy showed me totally unprovoked attitude a number of times, snarling and stiffening up out of the blue with nothing I could see which set him off. Then six months after he was returned to me he bit me without holding back, it wasn't merely a 'nip'. About an hour later I had him euthanized at my vet's emergency clinic as my vet and I had already had this discussion on at least a couple of occasions. The point here is if I couldn't handle this particular dog, no one could - I can't have a dog which no one can come and take care of if something were to keep me from taking care of them. My very seasoned vet (over 35 years out of vet school) made a point of saying that from his experience and observations dogs with such behavior never improve, they only get worse. I didn't want to believe what he was saying at first, but now I'm a true believer.

A dog's behavior has EVERYTHING to do with how it is 'programmed' when being raised from puppyhood to adulthood. Garbage in, garbage out - and if the genetics are there for high drive and high aggression one can inadvertently create a really fucked up dog which no one can safely, *predictably* handle, I don't care how good (they think) they are with dogs.

I think you guys are talking about two different things. I believe SJ is referring to a dog with dog/fear aggression and MR is referring to a dog with human aggression. Two very different issues.

[midnight rambler]

I think you guys are talking about two different things. I believe SJ is referring to a dog with dog/fear aggression and MR is referring to a dog with human aggression. Two very different issues.

The thing is, both dogs I euthanized were generally very friendly and outgoing with people including complete strangers. Enzo's brother Cato liked meeting new people, he showed zero aggression toward other folks. And actually when I took him to get evaluated for working ability by a Schutzhund helper/trainer Cato cut and run when the guy put the heat on him, as in ZERO aggression when pressure was applied by a stranger, just the opposite. I think the root of the problem was being raised with another male Dobermann puppy of the same age while being exposed to that POS Cesar Millan 'training' techniques.

[Osiris]

The thing is, both dogs I euthanized were generally very friendly and outgoing with people including complete strangers. Enzo's brother Cato liked meeting new people, he showed zero aggression toward other folks. And actually when I took him to get evaluated for working ability by a Schutzhund helper/trainer Cato cut and run when the guy put the heat on him, as in ZERO aggression when pressure was applied by a stranger, just the opposite. I think the root of the problem was being raised with another male Dobermann puppy of the same age while being exposed to that POS Cesar Millan 'training' techniques.

Human aggression towards anyone (not a threat) is unacceptable IMHO. However, there are many cases of dog fighting dogs being rehabilitated. Human aggression not being an issue. My point being it is very possible to rehabilitate some dogs depending on the issues. I think that was the point SJ may have been making as well.

[midnight rambler]

Human aggression towards anyone (not a threat) is unacceptable IMHO. However, there are many cases of dog fighting dogs being rehabilitated. Human aggression not being an issue. My point being it is very possible to rehabilitate some dogs depending on the issues. I think that was the point SJ may have been making as well.

And my point is that irreparable* harm can be done to a dog that is genetically predisposed to high drive and high aggression by idiotic and moronic training/management/handling during the formative months as a puppy into a young adult. Face it, irreparable harm CAN be done and there's NOTHING that can be done to 'fix' or 'rehabilitate' that.

*irreparable as in there's absolutely no chance of 'rehabilitation'

[singular_me]

disturbing... wondering as to whether the owner is clinically paranoid or an heavy drug user... dont have the time to investigate this.

[iOWNme]

Another problem/issue that surrounds the Pit Bull, and other dogs is inbreeding.

This can produce a dog with mental/physical problems. Especially if it is into the 2nd and 3rd generation, as a lot of Pit Bull owners like to do.

[midnight rambler]

Another problem/issue that surrounds the Pit Bull, and other dogs is inbreeding.



Again you're mistaken. I'm thinking what you're referring to is just plain stupid choices in breeding by those who haven't a clue as to what they're doing.

There's 'line breeding' (breeding to close relatives) and then there's 'inbreeding' (breeding to immediate relatives). Linebreeding is often done with dogs (the folks who GoD works with do heavy linebreeding). Inbreeding is used extensively with cattle and horses.

The breeder I work with is a very intelligent and highly educated woman (two Masters degrees and a Phd.) who titled THREE Dobermanns to high scoring ScH III titles and one to ScH II (Enzo's sire, was ready to do a ScH III however due to him suffering an injury she quit putting him in trials so he'd be available for breeding), i.e. training and trialing FOUR dogs simultaneously in the late '90s. This woman has done extensive research on 'inbreeding', in fact Enzo's sire (Avatar) is the result of a brother/sister breeding. In '95 I acquired a female puppy which was out of Avatar's littermate Ava - Ava was out-crossed to Bismark v. Donataul (a total out-cross, Bissy was titled in ScH III over three dozen times in N. America and Europe). That female puppy (Ava/Bissy) was one of the most awesome dogs I've ever had - I bred her back to an Avatar puppy (a first cousin breeding) and ended up with *THE* most awesome dog I've ever had, a female, a level I'm shooting for again (this particular female is one which got returned to me at 14 months because she was so over the top the family who had her couldn't get a handle on her). Out of the seven puppies in the Ava/Bismarck litter, five were titled to ScH III - generally this never happens. We've done very close linebreeding since then on a few occasions and we've never had an issue with 'mental' issues. Yes, there's the potential for 'health' issues*, however so far we haven't experienced anything there any worse or more frequent than anyone else with working Dobermanns (no vWD, no cardio at a young age, no hip problems). Excluding one killed in an accident and the one I had to euthanize last year all of my dogs of this bloodline died of old age after reaching the geriatric stage of life (nine years). The next breeding we're going to do here soon is to breed Enzo's littermate Abby back to their sire Avatar (a father/daughter breeding). After that we will breed a female from that litter back to one of Ava's male puppies which my friend titled to ScH III - then we will be exactly where we want to be.

*if one goes about it intelligently and deliberately, there's a way to use inbreeding to totally eliminate specific health issues

[iOWNme]

Again you're mistaken. I'm thinking what you're referring to is just plain stupid choices in breeding by those who haven't a clue as to what they're doing.

There's 'line breeding' (breeding to close relatives) and then there's 'inbreeding' (breeding to immediate relatives). Linebreeding is often done with dogs (the folks who GoD works with do heavy linebreeding). Inbreeding is used extensively with cattle and horses.


Mistaken?.....I said inbreeding because i meant inbreeding. In the Pit Bull world, there are certain breeds people love, and so they continually breed the same bloodline together = brother/sister, father/daughter, father/grandaughter and so on.

Of course this is completely insane, as i stated by the 3rd, 4th and 5th generations you are looking at things that barely resemble canines. But do these ignorant fucks care about that? Hell no.....They want a stubby looking 80lb dog with a shovelhead and can barely breath correctly because it looks 'Tuff', not to mention the mental problems associated with continued muti-generational inbreeding.

[Osiris]

There's 'line breeding' (breeding to close relatives) and then there's 'inbreeding' (breeding to immediate relatives)

The next breeding we're going to do here soon is to breed Enzo's littermate Abby back to their sire Avatar (a father/daughter breeding).

Is a father and daughter not immediate family? Am I missing something?

[midnight rambler]

Is a father and daughter not immediate family?

Of course it is, that's as inbred as it gets.

[Dogman]

Is a father and daughter not immediate family? Am I missing something?


Of course it is, that's as inbred as it gets.

Number of years ago, there was a family here that the old mans daughter was also his granddaughter.

[Osiris]

You are probably right about your wager . . . all we have to do is think about how every rifle is an AK47 in the media's eyes.

I have seen many news stories stating there was a 'pit bull' attack and the dog was more of a lab mix. 'pit bulls' look similar to a lot of other dogs as well, check out the link.

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

[iOWNme]

I have seen many news stories stating there was a 'pit bull' attack and the dog was more of a lab mix. 'pit bulls' look similar to a lot of other dogs as well, check out the link.

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html


Everyone in this thread that doesnt like Pit Bulls should take the test Osiris just posted......And then post up your honest scores....

[BrewTech]

When SHTF, the wimpy ass LEO's don't want to be dealing with this breed. It'll tear their dogs to pieces as well as them and there ain't no stopping a bull when its got blood on the mind. Thats why drug pushers and the like have them. A cop will stand his ground and fire on anything, but a pit bull. Unless you hit it dead with the first shot, pits will tear you apart. This is why I think media/government/cops want to eliminate people having this breed, because they are probably one of the only breeds that strike terror in a cop............

Please.

I jumped the fence and punched a pit bull in the back of the head a few times to make it let go of my cat. He let go after four shots. The three other pit bulls standing around didn't seem to know what to do so they ran away.

They should just call them "pit bullies". Stand up to a bully and they run away with their tail between their legs.

[singular_me]

there is a media pitbull negative hype, just like for guns, but in my view raising and training a dog properly is an art. And people who get a pitbull (doberman,rottweiler, etc) often are more aggressive/less self-confident than the average to start with.

[midnight rambler]

there is a media pitbull negative hype, just like for guns, but in my view raising and training a dog properly is an art. And people who get a pitbull (doberman,rottweiler, etc) often are more aggressive/less self-confident than the average to start with.

lol How funny.

I got my first Doberman when I was 13 (actually, he found my family as someone had apparently dumped him in the country). He was such a great, loyal, obedient dog that it piqued my interest in Dobermans and I got my first Doberman puppy 34 years ago. Now I have a love of them and am currently a steward of an awesome bloodline of working Dobermanns which are immediately/directly related to some of the best working Dobermanns (and held in high esteem by those who are familiar with the history of working Dobermanns) of the '70s and '80s in Germany. Currently I have two big babies, very friendly and VERY outgoing, who love everyone they meet* - just don't try to cross the threshold without my approval.

*a half-brother to my current male used to bark something fierce at people who came close to my truck when he was in it - as he was wagging his tail...what he was 'saying' was, "Get your ass over here and pet me NOW!" of course those who don't understand dogs took his bark for something entirely different while doglovers would walk right up and pet him

[singular_me]

plz note that I say "often"... :) I have been for 3 years on a road trip and this is my perception so far. Sure. it would be unwise to generalize.

[Blink]

Please.

I jumped the fence and punched a pit bull in the back of the head a few times to make it let go of my cat. He let go after four shots. The three other pit bulls standing around didn't seem to know what to do so they ran away.

They should just call them "pit bullies". Stand up to a bully and they run away with their tail between their legs.


Not everyone is as tough as you. To the average MSM watching zombie, the breed strikes terror into them. Thats how brainwashing works regardless of "your" first hand experience...........

[BrewTech]

Not everyone is as tough as you. To the average MSM watching zombie, the breed strikes terror into them. Thats how brainwashing works regardless of "your" first hand experience...........

Not a matter of toughness, I just wasn't going to stand by and let my cat get ripped to pieces. I was a little surprised at first that they didn't attack.