How do I "Unregister: a vehicle?

[Olmstein]

I bought a vehicle used, and I have the title signed over to me. I don't want to register it again. I would like to "unregister" it.

Is this possible?

Palani?

Midnight Rambler?

Little help?

[JohnQPublic]

One option in CA is to state it is being stored. Not sure what status that produces.

[milehi]

One option in CA is to state it is being stored. Not sure what status that produces.

You still have to pay a non op fee to the state, even if it's stored on "private property".

[Cebu_4_2]

You should put it into your name to complete the transfer of title. But then you admit to being a ward of the state. Just sayin... Palini should absolve you of all your sins. Lets not do anything until we hear from him.

[Hatha Sunahara]

Augustus Blackstone tells you about this in his Errant Sovereign's Handbook:

http://1215.org/lawnotes/sovereignty/errant-sovereign-handbook.pdf

He talks about not registering your car in Ch. 14 on P. 85. Read that chapter. All I can remember from it is that if you buy a new car, make it a condition of the sale that the dealer provide you with the Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin. If you have that, you do not have to register it--which means giving that to the State, and they give you a 'Title' which effectively makes them the Legal owner, and you the 'Equitable' owner. The state owns the vehicle, but you have usufruct. You get to use it. Uncle Gus explains that pretty well. You might want to read the whole book because it will give you some other ideas which are pretty good.


Hatha

[Twisted Titan]

No Dealer is going to give up that CoO.

They wont sell you the car............you will have some interesting @$$ conversation with the sales rep but if you think hes going to provide you with that paper work you are dreaming.

And if by chance you some how obtain said CoO good luck educating a cop why you dont have plates and why your vehicle vin is not showing up when he ran it when you drove past the spot check. Are you really willing to deal with the nonsense every time you get behind the wheel?

They make it a stressfull and mega PITA thats why the majority of these people who sell these books know that is nothing more then conjecture at best because Jhon and Jane Q are not gonna try it.

[Skirnir_]

I'd caution against applying any of this 'sovereign' baloney unless one would prefer to lose the automobile.

[Neuro]

In Sweden a vehicle gets unregistered when it is taken to the junk yard, I guess you could take it to the junkyard, do that, and buy the car back as parts from the junk yard...

[Publico]

Here's something that I happened to be looking at (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXE7b5G_jcQ&feature=related) when I read your post.

[palani]

Some thoughts:

First, gold was abolished in 1933 as money. Unless you built it yourself you have no way to own it.

Getting a manufacturers certificate of origin ... tell the dealer you are moving to Canada and will register it there. Will work for a new car but doubt if you will find a COO for a previously titled car.

Don't want to mess with it in your name? Form an LLC and buy it in THEIR name. These corporations act as a dividing line between your assets and the LLC assets. This just means you are not the registered owner but may lease it from them (you can't own it anyway because money has been outlawed).

You can build it yourself and issue your own COO. If you choose to do this then the state might take exception to your not meeting emission standards or labor laws or some other nonsense (they show you their displeasure by putting the screws to you).

One person I know bought his car with silver, did not register it and it was stolen while legally parked in a city. He never got it back (cops from the municipality stole it).

Don't want to register it with the state? Register it elsewhere. Use a DOT form and file for a DOT number. Use the number they give you as a license plate. (Indications are this window is closing soon). There is currently a PRIVATE USE box that can be checked.

Become a mailman. Nobody messes with the U.S. mail.

Don't gamble with anything you cannot afford to lose. You might fly under the radar with a license plate. Without one your chances of having intimate personal conversations with legal enforcement people becomes far greater.

[Publico]

You can get an owner assembled motor-trike (http://www.scooterdepot.us/trike-gas-motor-scooters-150cc-3-wheels-moped-p-730.html). They provide you with a MSO


However if you've bought a scooter through our website you'll have some work to do. In most of the states you'll need a manufacturer's statement of origin (MSO), which the dealer should provide. This is a certificate from the scooter manufacturer which has the make, model and VIN (Vehicle Identification Number) on it and is proof that the scooter meets all applicable DOT and EPA standards for registration in the USA, and in particular for the state you are trying to register it in. You also need proof of insurance, the dealer invoice and a valid driver's license. Then you simply drive to your local DMV office, wait in line for 20 minutes, get the forms, fill them out, wait in line for another 30 minutes and if all your documents are in order you get a title and your motorcycle plates (moped plates if your scooter is under 50cc).

Then you have to take your scooter to an inspection station along with a yellow card which the DMV office provided, proof of insurance and a valid drivers license (with motorcycle endorsement if the scooter is over 50cc) and the inspection station will give you an inspection sticker good for 4 years. They may also check that your helmet meets local requirements (DOT certification etc).

It is very simple to title and register your new moped, scooter or motorcycle. When buying a scooter online, you should expect to receive the following documents:

* A Certificate of Origin (MCO), a.k.a. MSO (Manufacturer Statement of Origin.)
* A Bill of Sale.

The certificate of origin is an official title document that releases the scooter from the importer to the dealer. The dealer released the scooter to you. All documents for every street legal vehicle are usually sent in the mail 2 to 4 days after the scooter is shipped. Please note, we do not mail your MSO and Bill of Sales alone with your scooter, there is a possibility of receiving your registration information before you even receive your vehicle, since the trucking company usually has longer transit time frame compares to first class mail service. We request each customer to confirm your VIN by email if you don't receive your registration documentations 7 business days after receiving your street legal scooter or motorcycle. To confirm: simply send an email to mso@scooterdepot.us include your order number and VIN in the subject or the body. We will have one of our professional title representatives to process your title request immediately. MSO request generally requires 3-5 business days to process, and it is FREE of charge!

Vehicle Identification Number is usually located on the front of the steering stem or at the bottom of the floor mat, where you would place your foot. The VIN number consists of a 17 digit alpha numeric number, and usually has the engine number located on the same plate. The plated steel mount can be either black or steel.

Each MSO Title certificate will be accompanied by a Bill of Sale and Invoice for registration purposes. If your state requires your MSO to be notarized, please indicate on your MSO request form. There is a $25.00 fee for each notary. We offer overnight service for an additional $55.00. Please note: overnight service only guarantees we mail your documents via overnight service. We do not guarantee your MSO will be prepared and processed overnight. There is $20.00 fee for each replacement MSO.

Once you receive these documents, you need to take them with your scooter or motorcycle to your local DMV (Department of Motor Vehicle). They will inspect the bike and compare the VIN (Vehicle Identification Number) on the paperwork to the one on the scooter. They will inspect the vehicle as well.

Your DMV will collect the sales tax as well as any applicable registration fee and will issue a license plate for your vehicle.

[Hatha Sunahara]

Publico, put the description you posted above into this context:




From The Errant Sovereign's Handbook

The vehicle license plate is pretty convincing evidence to most anyone that the contraption under observation is a state utility. The state has the authority to and does require that all of its mobile utilities be operated by licensed drivers. What's that you say? "That automobile belongs to me, not the state." That isn't what the evidence shows. Can you produce the actual title to the proprety to prove that it belongs to you? The "Certificate of Title" which the state issued to you is not the actual title. It merely certifies that the title may have been in your name at one time, but it also is undeniable proof that you voluntarily transferred actual possession of the title over to the state. It can't be certified unless you do. Want to know what the state does with the actual titles when they get them? They are either destroyed, voided on their face, or used as a form of collateral on state debts. Do I have to explain what all that means? Does the word coversion ring any bells?

That is why the state regards the use of an automobile a political privilege. It is a privilege to use property which the evidence shows belongs to the state. The state may impose whatever conditions or restrictions it chooses on the use of its property. The statutes do not, and lawfully cannot require you to turn over to the state the actual title to your property. The statutes only so require if you elect to voluntarily license the property. Do you need a license to use your home? Do you need a license to use your hair dryer or your golf clubs. Since some automobles are now selling for as much as a small house, why would any sensible man or woman want to gift the state with the actual title to their property? Would you care to voluntarily gift the state with the title to your home? The police are there to supervise and regulate the proper use of mobile utilities belonging to the state, not the sovereign and responsible use of Private property.

If you went into partnership with a lending institution to buy the automobile, there's not a whole lot you can do to prevent the title from being sent to the state. That is because lending institutions are political statute controlled fictions that are required to turn over the actual title to the state, license it, get insurance on it, etc. For those of you who don't know, the actual original title to an automobile is the Manufacturere's Certificate of Origin (MCO) If you pay cash for an automoble, you have the right to demand that the MCO be given to you. As for used automobile purchases; some locales recognize the Bill of Sale as a new title but other locales do not. It is best to assume the latter in most cases.

The statutes don't require you to turn your car over to the state. You do that VOLUNTARILY. You just don't know it. The state can't tell you what to do with your own property. You do not need a license to use your own property. You don't need to put plates on it. And if you don't drive your car for pay, you don't need a driver's license.

You should read that whole book by Augustus Blackstone--The Errant Sovereign's Handbook. He tells you how the state tricks you (using your need to conform and obey) into volunteering to be their slave. If a cop stops you, and asks for drivers license, registration, and proof of insurance--you might show him a certified copy of your MCO, and proof of insurance, and tell him you're not driving for hire. At that point, there is nothing he can do to you. If he gives you a wad of tickets, they will be thrown out in court. Uncle Gus advises you get 'Plates' for your car that do not call attention to your mastery of the law. He suggests plates that say 'Private Property'. You can come up with non-descript content for your own plates.

I say rather than refraining from doing this yourself, let people know this scam that the states pull off on them. Most of them are sheeple and won't believe you, and will tell you you're crazy. It will be their loss--not yours.

Next new car I buy, I'm paying cash and getting the MCO.


Hatha

[midnight rambler]

No Dealer is going to give up that CoO.



Wrong. I've got one, and got it 11 years and 10 months ago. Still have it and the automobile it represents is on the road frequently.

The trick to getting the MSO is to convince the new car dealership management that you are in fact 'from out of state'. They are prohibited to handing over the MSO to a 'resident' of the state they are located however they have zero issue with handing the MSO over to someone (provided it's a cash sale and not being financed) they have determined absolutely, positively for sure is 'from out of state'.

[midnight rambler]

which means giving that to the State, and they give you a 'Title'

The state will NEVER, EVER issue ANYONE a 'title' for their 'motor vehicle'. The document the state does issue states at the top 'CERTIFICATE OF TITLE' (yes, it's in all caps on the document itself, the intention of which is to make that a 'conspicuous term or clause' under the UCC). A 'certificate' is nothing more than a document which 'certifies' something exists, however a 'certificate' of a document is not the document itself. It's like this, the CERTIFICATE OF TITLE states that 'title' exists, however this particular document (the CERTIFICATE OF TITLE) is NOT it! If the state issued documents which were in fact 'title' documents, then at the very top of the document it would simply state 'TITLE'.

[Hatha Sunahara]

Here are some interesting posts on 'How to get your MCO/MSO'

http://boardreader.com/thread/How_to_get_Manufacturers_Certificate_of_7oieX14vj. html


Hatha

[gunDriller]

In Sweden a vehicle gets unregistered when it is taken to the junk yard, I guess you could take it to the junkyard, do that, and buy the car back as parts from the junk yard...

makes me wonder if there might be some benefit to un-registering a person.

given how untrustworthy & murderous the US gov. is, what benefit is there - for us - for them to have information about any of us ?

[palani]

makes me wonder if there might be some benefit to un-registering a person.

A person is
1) a word
2) an action
3) representation

The application for anything is an action that creates a person. The ONLY one who can enter such a document into evidence is he/she who signed the document. In the case of a document with only YOUR signature then if the judge happens to wave it in your face and ask if this is your signature you just tell 'em "your honor, I would be happy to discuss the document in question as soon as it has been entered into evidence" and rest comfortable in the knowledge that YOU are the only one who can enter it into evidence.

There are two types of hearings ... argument and evidence. Evidence hearings are extremely rare. I have no license to engage in argument so I tend to stay away from the other type.

[monty]

An interesting exchange with the Missouri Depatrment of Motor Vehicles:

http://section520.org/mso.html

Manufacturer's Statement of Origin
- Key To Ownership -
by

Bruce G. McCarthy

PREFACE
Obtaining concise, meaningful answers from public officials is an unparalleled and age-old challenge. Bureaucrats, after all, view their office as the last bastion of liberty - and from this lofty perch they unashamedly claim the right to remain silent.
"A [public] servant will not be corrected by words: for though he
understand he will not answer." Proverbs 29:19

Dilemma: How does one converse with a deaf-mute? Solution: Adopt a technique of your adversary. Remember that certified letter?

"THIS IS THE VOICE OF DOOM SPEAKING! It has been determined that you are a [taxpayer, neo-nazi, pinko, commie fag], and thus subject to [an awesome statute is inserted here], and shall [pay up, stand liable, etc.]... THIS DETERMINATION BECOMES FINAL DAYS AFTER RECEIPT OF THIS NOTICE UNLESS WITHIN SUCH TIME A WRITTEN REQUEST FOR HEARING IS FILED WITH THIS OFFICE, SETTING FORTH YOUR OBJECTIONS IN DETAIL."

Nice choice. To do nothing admits guilt, and the penalty. But to object makes you the Plaintiff, with the burden of proof. Welcome to the proverbial 'rock and a hard place' - craftily concocted by an agent of the Civil Law. A determination - yours - was entered by 'tacit procuration'. Why not submit your own, to correct the record - thereby introducing a third option?
"PROCURATION. Agency, proxy; the act of constituting another one's
attorney in fact. The act by which one person gives power to
another to act in his place, as he could do himself." Black's Law
Dictionary, 5th ed., p. 1086

The world abounds with procurators - lawyers, guardians, trustees and legislators who generally obtain our EXPRESS consent. Courts and other government agencies, on the other hand, use the IMPLIED, or tacit procuration. A plea of 'not guilty' on behalf of a mute accused by a magistrate is such an example.

"An express procuration is one made by the express consent of the
parties. AN IMPLIED OR TACIT PROCURATION TAKES PLACE WHEN AN
INDIVIDUAL SEES ANOTHER MANAGING HIS AFFAIRS AND DOES NOT
INTERFERE TO PREVENT IT."
Black's supra, p. 1087 [emphasis mine]

Two 'hybrid' tacit procurations were employed in the enclosed MVD file as a type of 'correspondence Drain-o' which you, the reader, may find useful whenever it becomes necessary to...

"Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the
way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to
the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou
be cast into prison." Matthew 5:25

To avoid Caesar's prison, you must first avoid his courts. And a means to such ends could be in securing agreements (stipulations) with your adversary, so as to undermine his cause of action. Your position thus gains its greatest strength, not where you and your adversary differ - but where you agree.

- Bruce G. McCarthy

[Exhibit A: Copy of form DOR-108]
[Exhibit B: Copy of purchase agreement]
[Exhibit C: Copy of Manufacturer's Statement of Origin]

MAXIMS OF THE CIVIL LAW IN SUPPORT OF TACIT PROCURATION
Silence shows consent. 6 Barb. [N.Y.] 2B, 35.
Qui non negat, fatetur. He who does not deny, admits. Trayner, Max. 503.
[many others not included - see Black's and Bouvier's Law Dictionaries]
-
Rt. 1, Box 61-A
Schell City, MO 84783
July 17, 1985

Title/License/Registration Division
DEPARTMENT OF MOTOR VEHICLES
Jefferson City, MO 65104

Dear Sir or Madam:

Having secured a copy of APPLICATION FOR MISSOURI TITLE AND/OR LICENSE, I
need some clarification from your office prior to filling out such a form.

At the top of this form (DOR-108) appears "TITLE TYPE", with several "types" listed (e.g., original, duplicate, etc.). These categories suggest one is applying for something the first time or seeking a copy, but nowhere does the form specifically identify what kind/type of "title" for which the application is made.

1. What kind/type "title" do you issue?
The form provides a place for "OWNER'S NAME", though I suspect one must produce proof of ownership, the State of Missouri not simply taking the applicant's word.

2. What document is sufficient to prove ownership?

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Bruce G. McCarthy

______________
October 17, 1985
RE: Application for Missouri Title (DOR-108)

Dear Sir or Madam:

Receiving no reply/answer to my two questions (letter dated July 17, 1985) prompts this second attempt, contrary though it may be to the doctrine 'Yours is not to reason why, but to do or die.' The passage of time has, naturally, spawned additional questions, all of which you can see are simple and straight forward.

Your Form DOR-108 lists several categories of "TITLE TYPE", but nowhere specifically identifies what KIND of title is being sought in the original, nor is the Missouri MVD definition of "title" anywhere disclosed, necessitating a guess or question, the latter being the better choice.

1. How does DMV/DOR define the singular word "title"? (Do not confuse with
Certificate of Title, Missouri Title or other modified "titles".)

2. What kind/type "title" do you issue in the original?
The Form DOR-108 provides a place for "OWNER'S NAME", though I suspect the applicant must produce written proof of ownership - unless your department will take his word.

3. What document/s is/are deemed sufficient to prove ownership?

4. Does the applicant surrender possession of any document when applying for a Missouri Title?

5. Does the applicant surrender any right/s by applying for Missouri title?

6. What is a "Missouri Title", as distinguished from a bare "title" evidencing sole/absolute ownership?

7. Is either the Bill of Sale and/or Certificate of Origin (MSO) a document or indication of title?

Since it is presumed the applicant is cognizant of whatsoever he makes application, else would he apply, so too the grantor must comprehend all conditions/ramifications couched in that which he bestows. Thus, prior to making application, I need answers to these questions, confident that you
possess the wherewithal to provide them easily and without hesitation.
Thank you for your time and consideration.

Sincerely,

Bruce G. McCarthy

October 31, 1985
Missouri Department of Revenue
Motor Vehicle Bureau
P.O. Box 100
Jefferson City, MO 65105

Dear Mr. McCarthy:

This is in response to your letter of September 17, 1985 regarding questions pertaining to Form DOR-108 - Application for Missouri Title and/or License.

A "title" as defined in Section 301.190 of the Revised Statutes of the State of Missouri, is a certificate of ownership containing a complete description of the motor vehicle or trailer, manufacturer's or other identifying number, together with a statement of any liens or encumbrances on the motor vehicle or trailer.

Original titles are issued on motor vehicles, trailers, boats and motors.

A Missouri certificate of title issued in the owner's name is the only proof of ownership.

A properly assigned title must be surrendered with any application for Missouri title.

The applicant (purchaser) does not surrender any rights when applying for a Missouri certificate of title.

A Missouri certificate of title is considered "open" until ownership is transferred. To transfer ownership the assignment on the back of the title must be completed and signed by the owner in the presence of a notary public.

A bill of sale is not considered an ownership document, but may be required to verify an actual purchase price of a motor vehicle. The manufacturer's statement of origin is not proof of ownership until an application for title is presented to the Department of Revenue's Motor Vehicle Bureau along with all state and local taxes required and the appropriate title and license fees.

I hope this information will be of help to you. Should you have any questions or need additional information, please feel free to contact my office.

Sincerely,

Nancy K. Bemboom, Supervisor

Information and Maintenance Section

read the rest of this months long exchange at http://section520.org/mso.html

[Glass]

interesting read monty. brick wall kind of thing. It is difficult to deal with persons that cannot see the things being asked about.

[Ares]

The manufacturer's statement of origin is not proof of ownership until an application for title is presented to the Department of Revenue's Motor Vehicle Bureau along with all state and local taxes required and the appropriate title and license fees.

So according to this verbiage. Missouri won't even recognize your superior right to ownership until you give them title over it.

That appears to be an impasse. Anyone could respond back and say you do not recognize their ownership over your property since the MCO is the higher form of ownership you will not be surrendering it to the state.

[palani]

"Own" can be either a verb or an adjective. As an adjective "own" can be analyzed as possession. As a verb "own" is an action such as "to possess" or "to have authority over". "Owe" is also a verb having the same meaning as "own".

Ownership however is a noun. So adding "ship" to either a noun or a verb creates a noun. Anything that is a noun is capable of having a name.

Ships have names. Here is an example

Murray v. The Charming Betsey 6 U.S. 64 (1804)


U.S. Supreme Court
Murray v. The Charming Betsey, 6 U.S. 2 Cranch 64 64 (1804)

Murray v. The Charming Betsey

6 U.S. (2 Cranch) 64

APPEAL FROM THE CIRCUIT

COURT OF PENNSYLVANIA

Syllabus

The Charming Betsey, an American merchant vessel, sailed from Baltimore on 10 April, 1800, under the name of The Jane, for St. Bartholomew with a cargo of flour, and afterwards proceeded to St. Thomas, where she was sold to J.S., who was born in the United States and while an infant removed to St. Thomas, of which place he became a burgher, and there carried on trade as a merchant, married there, and in 1797 took an oath of allegiance to Denmark. J.S. put a cargo on board of the schooner, calling her The Charming Betsey, and cleared her out for Guadaloupe. She was captured by a French privateer and ordered for Guadaloupe as prize, and was recaptured by the American frigate Constellation, Murray commander, and carried into Martinique, where the cargo was sold and the vessel was brought to the United States; the vessel and cargo being considered as having violated the law of the United States prohibiting intercourse between the United States and France, and the sale to J.S. asserted to be a cover to evade the law. Held that the recapture was illegal.

An act of Congress ought never to be construed to violate the law of nations if any other possible construction remains, and consequently can never be construed to violate neutral rights or to affect neutral commerce further than is warranted by the law of nations as understood in this country.

So as long as you choose to dabble in maritime law why not follow maritime custom and stencil the name of your vessel on your means of transportation? While you are at it get a figurehead to mount on the hood? Should you do this then you might have created something capable of being owned.

You don't own the thing. You own the name that is displayed on the thing. Or you own the figurehead.

[Neuro]

An interesting exchange with the Missouri Depatrment of Motor Vehicles:

http://section520.org/mso.html

Manufacturer's Statement of Origin
- Key To Ownership -
by

Bruce G. McCarthy

PREFACE
Obtaining concise, meaningful answers from public officials is an unparalleled and age-old challenge. Bureaucrats, after all, view their office as the last bastion of liberty - and from this lofty perch they unashamedly claim the right to remain silent.
"A [public] servant will not be corrected by words: for though he
understand he will not answer." Proverbs 29:19

Dilemma: How does one converse with a deaf-mute? Solution: Adopt a technique of your adversary. Remember that certified letter?

"THIS IS THE VOICE OF DOOM SPEAKING! It has been determined that you are a [taxpayer, neo-nazi, pinko, commie fag], and thus subject to [an awesome statute is inserted here], and shall [pay up, stand liable, etc.]... THIS DETERMINATION BECOMES FINAL DAYS AFTER RECEIPT OF THIS NOTICE UNLESS WITHIN SUCH TIME A WRITTEN REQUEST FOR HEARING IS FILED WITH THIS OFFICE, SETTING FORTH YOUR OBJECTIONS IN DETAIL."

Nice choice. To do nothing admits guilt, and the penalty. But to object makes you the Plaintiff, with the burden of proof. Welcome to the proverbial 'rock and a hard place' - craftily concocted by an agent of the Civil Law. A determination - yours - was entered by 'tacit procuration'. Why not submit your own, to correct the record - thereby introducing a third option?
"PROCURATION. Agency, proxy; the act of constituting another one's
attorney in fact. The act by which one person gives power to
another to act in his place, as he could do himself." Black's Law
Dictionary, 5th ed., p. 1086

The world abounds with procurators - lawyers, guardians, trustees and legislators who generally obtain our EXPRESS consent. Courts and other government agencies, on the other hand, use the IMPLIED, or tacit procuration. A plea of 'not guilty' on behalf of a mute accused by a magistrate is such an example.

"An express procuration is one made by the express consent of the
parties. AN IMPLIED OR TACIT PROCURATION TAKES PLACE WHEN AN
INDIVIDUAL SEES ANOTHER MANAGING HIS AFFAIRS AND DOES NOT
INTERFERE TO PREVENT IT."
Black's supra, p. 1087 [emphasis mine]

Two 'hybrid' tacit procurations were employed in the enclosed MVD file as a type of 'correspondence Drain-o' which you, the reader, may find useful whenever it becomes necessary to...

"Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the
way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to
the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou
be cast into prison." Matthew 5:25

To avoid Caesar's prison, you must first avoid his courts. And a means to such ends could be in securing agreements (stipulations) with your adversary, so as to undermine his cause of action. Your position thus gains its greatest strength, not where you and your adversary differ - but where you agree.

- Bruce G. McCarthy

[Exhibit A: Copy of form DOR-108]
[Exhibit B: Copy of purchase agreement]
[Exhibit C: Copy of Manufacturer's Statement of Origin]

MAXIMS OF THE CIVIL LAW IN SUPPORT OF TACIT PROCURATION
Silence shows consent. 6 Barb. [N.Y.] 2B, 35.
Qui non negat, fatetur. He who does not deny, admits. Trayner, Max. 503.
[many others not included - see Black's and Bouvier's Law Dictionaries]
-
Rt. 1, Box 61-A
Schell City, MO 84783
July 17, 1985

Title/License/Registration Division
DEPARTMENT OF MOTOR VEHICLES
Jefferson City, MO 65104

Dear Sir or Madam:

Having secured a copy of APPLICATION FOR MISSOURI TITLE AND/OR LICENSE, I
need some clarification from your office prior to filling out such a form.

At the top of this form (DOR-108) appears "TITLE TYPE", with several "types" listed (e.g., original, duplicate, etc.). These categories suggest one is applying for something the first time or seeking a copy, but nowhere does the form specifically identify what kind/type of "title" for which the application is made.

1. What kind/type "title" do you issue?
The form provides a place for "OWNER'S NAME", though I suspect one must produce proof of ownership, the State of Missouri not simply taking the applicant's word.

2. What document is sufficient to prove ownership?

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Bruce G. McCarthy

______________
October 17, 1985
RE: Application for Missouri Title (DOR-108)

Dear Sir or Madam:

Receiving no reply/answer to my two questions (letter dated July 17, 1985) prompts this second attempt, contrary though it may be to the doctrine 'Yours is not to reason why, but to do or die.' The passage of time has, naturally, spawned additional questions, all of which you can see are simple and straight forward.

Your Form DOR-108 lists several categories of "TITLE TYPE", but nowhere specifically identifies what KIND of title is being sought in the original, nor is the Missouri MVD definition of "title" anywhere disclosed, necessitating a guess or question, the latter being the better choice.

1. How does DMV/DOR define the singular word "title"? (Do not confuse with
Certificate of Title, Missouri Title or other modified "titles".)

2. What kind/type "title" do you issue in the original?
The Form DOR-108 provides a place for "OWNER'S NAME", though I suspect the applicant must produce written proof of ownership - unless your department will take his word.

3. What document/s is/are deemed sufficient to prove ownership?

4. Does the applicant surrender possession of any document when applying for a Missouri Title?

5. Does the applicant surrender any right/s by applying for Missouri title?

6. What is a "Missouri Title", as distinguished from a bare "title" evidencing sole/absolute ownership?

7. Is either the Bill of Sale and/or Certificate of Origin (MSO) a document or indication of title?

Since it is presumed the applicant is cognizant of whatsoever he makes application, else would he apply, so too the grantor must comprehend all conditions/ramifications couched in that which he bestows. Thus, prior to making application, I need answers to these questions, confident that you
possess the wherewithal to provide them easily and without hesitation.
Thank you for your time and consideration.

Sincerely,

Bruce G. McCarthy

October 31, 1985
Missouri Department of Revenue
Motor Vehicle Bureau
P.O. Box 100
Jefferson City, MO 65105

Dear Mr. McCarthy:

This is in response to your letter of September 17, 1985 regarding questions pertaining to Form DOR-108 - Application for Missouri Title and/or License.

A "title" as defined in Section 301.190 of the Revised Statutes of the State of Missouri, is a certificate of ownership containing a complete description of the motor vehicle or trailer, manufacturer's or other identifying number, together with a statement of any liens or encumbrances on the motor vehicle or trailer.

Original titles are issued on motor vehicles, trailers, boats and motors.

A Missouri certificate of title issued in the owner's name is the only proof of ownership.

A properly assigned title must be surrendered with any application for Missouri title.

The applicant (purchaser) does not surrender any rights when applying for a Missouri certificate of title.

A Missouri certificate of title is considered "open" until ownership is transferred. To transfer ownership the assignment on the back of the title must be completed and signed by the owner in the presence of a notary public.

A bill of sale is not considered an ownership document, but may be required to verify an actual purchase price of a motor vehicle. The manufacturer's statement of origin is not proof of ownership until an application for title is presented to the Department of Revenue's Motor Vehicle Bureau along with all state and local taxes required and the appropriate title and license fees.

I hope this information will be of help to you. Should you have any questions or need additional information, please feel free to contact my office.

Sincerely,

Nancy K. Bemboom, Supervisor

Information and Maintenance Section

read the rest of this months long exchange at http://section520.org/mso.html

This happened 30 years ago. Today affirmative action bureaucrats wouldn't have the patience nor aptitude to even begin arguing with this man. Probably they would just report him for terrorism to DHS, and he would have a SWAT team at his door to deal with instead...

BTW the whole exchange is excellent!

[monty]

One of AIB Radio's most active researchers in the right to travel arena recently deceased.


One of our more active researchers, Chase Dattilo of Louisville, KY died
on Tuesday, May 10. Chase was a Veteran of the Army and was an Airborne

Ranger.



Chase was a researcher in the Right To Travel arena and had been drivingaround since 2006 with a license plate of his own making and was able to

effectively defend his Right To Travel without state issued plates.

I've attached a jpeg of the license plate on his old Honda for your collection.


http://s19.postimg.org/q2qf0oyqr/image.jpg

[monty]

This happened 30 years ago. Today affirmative action bureaucrats wouldn't have the patience nor aptitude to even begin arguing with this man. Probably they would just report him for terrorism to DHS, and he would have a SWAT team at his door to deal with instead...

BTW the whole exchange is excellent!


A 30 year old letter from an Arizona Senator to the Director of the Dept. of Public Safety asking him to hold back the cops.

I saw a better copy on the interwebs, but cant find it tonite.

http://s19.postimg.org/o0pxmg0rn/image.jpg

[Glass]

"Own" can be either a verb or an adjective. As an adjective "own" can be analyzed as possession. As a verb "own" is an action such as "to possess" or "to have authority over". "Owe" is also a verb having the same meaning as "own".

Ownership however is a noun. So adding "ship" to either a noun or a verb creates a noun. Anything that is a noun is capable of having a name.

Ships have names. Here is an example

Murray v. The Charming Betsey 6 U.S. 64 (1804)



So as long as you choose to dabble in maritime law why not follow maritime custom and stencil the name of your vessel on your means of transportation? While you are at it get a figurehead to mount on the hood? Should you do this then you might have created something capable of being owned.

You don't own the thing. You own the name that is displayed on the thing. Or you own the figurehead.

What do you think about the terms YOU and I?

I've wanted to do a post on this as they are quite unusual terms. YOU is non specific. It is best described as a BAIT word. A Judge might as how do YOU plead? The Judge is being non specific and is really just tossing the word out there to see who bites and OWNS up to being the YOU he is talking to.

I, is another similar type of word which I (Glass) doesn't know how to describe at all. Sovereigns use the terms We or One. The Royal "We" or the "One". One does not respond to such inquiries, for example.

Any thoughts? I heard of this some months back but I have not been able to find out what the source of this information is, dictionary or some other source.

The OP by Monty was very good. To me the most important aspect is the:

MAXIMS OF THE CIVIL LAW IN SUPPORT OF TACIT PROCURATION
Silence shows consent. 6 Barb. [N.Y.] 2B, 35.
Qui non negat, fatetur. He who does not deny, admits. Trayner, Max. 503.
[many others not included - see Black's and Bouvier's Law Dictionaries]

Extremely powerful stuff and the legal basis of the Claim of Right concept - although people became over expansive with their claim documents IMO.

[monty]

State Senator Wayne Stump letter

http://s19.postimg.org/3vwdgz6xv/image.jpg

[palani]

What do you think about the terms YOU and I?

YOU is a generic and as you suggest is a bait word.

COP: "What is YOUR name?"
YOU:"If you don't know what my name is then what makes you believe we have business to transact?"

When you give up YOUR name in response to such a request you have just acknowledged NOTICE. The alternative does not constitute NOTICE.

"I am returning your abandoned paper unopened as it came into my possession by mistake."

or

"GREETINGS to all those who these presents attach, ..."

Perhaps you really don't want these presents to attach?

As to "I" it is how it is spoken rather than how it is written. When you say "I" doesn't it sound like "Aye!" which is nothing if not consent.


aye (interj.)
word of assent, 1570s, of unknown origin, perhaps a variant of I, meaning "I assent;" or an alteration of Middle English yai "yes" (see yea), or from aye (adv.) "always, ever."

You might wish to consider using "Nay!" more often than you use "Aye!"