Skirnir's Grand Paraguay Operation

[Skirnir_]

I finally got in touch with a lawyer from that peanut-looking country, and he has confirmed what I have read about naturalisation.

In brief: the procedure mostly concerns going to Paraguay to get permanent residency, or more specifically, a cedula. Then, I sit on the darn thing for three years, though the guy says that it is helpful to spend a little bit of the 3yr there, or at least in the neighbourhood. After the time has passed, I get to apply for citizenship. Because Paraguay is poorer than its neighbours, most of them are trying to get out instead of in, so they do not have problems with anchor babies and the like. However, a facilitator with connections would be most helpful to ensure that this process proceeds smoothly.

I am exploring options to make it appear that I've stuck around. What I might do is 'visit' Argentina with my luggage and fly back to Ah'murrakuh from there...every little manoeuvre helps.

I estimate that the first two trips (one to apply, then one to get the cedula) will cost $12k including ancillary expenses, so I am doing further due diligence, including contacting a second lawyer to verify the procedure, and will start getting the requisite documents processed around March so that I may go down in the summer (their winter). Note that the sum includes $5k to be deposited down there to demonstrate financial wherewithal.

Fun things to do with a Paraguay passport:
-open foreign accounts
-get an international driver's license
-get benefits usually reserved for illegals (Soy paraguayo, señor. Miira mi pasaporte.)
-travel to Persia or Cuba without getting harassed (further) by yanquis
-mark 'Hispanic / Latino' and receive affirmative action. I suggest gringos stand in the sun for 30min before attempting this.
-When going overseas, no more embarrassing stigma of being American.

[General of Darkness]

In ALL SERIOUSNESS do you have the funds to do this? If so good for you.

Also why not look at an Eastern European country?

[Skirnir_]

In ALL SERIOUSNESS do you have the funds to do this? If so good for you.

Also why not look at an Eastern European country?

I am waiting for next semester's plunder to finance my adventure as I do not wish to sell assets. Most of this semester went to paying off the silver I put on 0% APR cards and Bill Me Later (0% for 6mo) but regrettably lost on a second boat accident. C'est la vie...but in summary: yes.

Paraguay is unusual in that they do not require a number of years' residency per se, but rather holding a permanent residency permit for a certain amount of time. The only other country that has this loophole to my knowledge is Dominican Republic, and they increased their requisite permanent residence time to 8yr, likely on account of the Haitian problem. In this case, Paraguay is the Haiti of the region, so it is unlikely that they will revisit this matter.

[General of Darkness]

I am waiting for next semester's plunder to finance my adventure as I do not wish to sell assets. Most of this semester went to paying off the silver I put on 0% APR cards and Bill Me Later (0% for 6mo) but regrettably lost on a second boat accident. C'est la vie...but in summary: yes.

Paraguay is unusual in that they do not require a number of years' residency per se, but rather holding a permanent residency permit for a certain amount of time. The only other country that has this loophole to my knowledge is Dominican Republic, and they increased their requisite permanent residence time to 8yr, likely on account of the Haitian problem. In this case, Paraguay is the Haiti of the region, so it is unlikely that they will revisit this matter.

Right, but why not look at an East European country? Is it just about residency length? Just curious because I hear a lot of people that talk about we all talk about are looking at Argentina.

[Skirnir_]

Right, but why not look at an East European country? Is it just about residency length? Just curious because I hear a lot of people that talk about we all talk about are looking at Argentina.

I've done due diligence on the Baltic countries, Belarus, and Hungary. All of them require one to actually reside in the country for as many as 8yr among other things.

Argentina is a gray area in that it is purely at judicial discretion, and can be difficult if one does not have a legal income stream within Argentina and usually requires renunciation of other citizenship. The right 'facilitator' could probably resolve the matter pretty quickly because the law de-jure is quite lenient, it is just a matter of persuading the robed ones. For the time being at least, I am in an advantageous situation residing here, so I would prefer to preserve it.

[General of Darkness]

I've done due diligence on the Baltic countries, Belarus, and Hungary. All of them require one to actually reside in the country for as many as 8yr among other things.

Argentina is a gray area in that it is purely at judicial discretion, and can be difficult if one does not have a legal income stream within Argentina and usually requires renunciation of other citizenship. The right 'facilitator' could probably resolve the matter pretty quickly because the law de-jure is quite lenient, it is just a matter of persuading the robed ones. For the time being at least, I am in an advantageous situation residing here, so I would prefer to preserve it.

Excellent, thank you.

[Cebu_4_2]

Marry someone from there and you should be golden. Able to buy property and stay without having to vacate every 90 days or however it works there.

[Skirnir_]

Marry someone from there and you should be golden. Able to buy property and stay without having to vacate every 90 days or however it works there.

In lieu of a deposit at a bank, ownership 10 hectares of land suffices as demonstration of financial wherewithal, and marriage seems risky.

[Cebu_4_2]

OK marry a T-girl and have the most of 3 worlds, gas, grass and ass?

[Skirnir_]

OK marry a T-girl and have the most of 3 worlds, gas, grass and ass?

Marry no one and do not enthrall one's self to a woman. That is just asking to be hosed by a lawyer.

[Horn]

Wouldn't you have to show some utility receipts, or economic activity to actually be considered as a citizen there?

[Hatha Sunahara]

You'll be in good company in Paraguay. George Bush and his family own something like 100 sq. miles of the country in the western part that is on top of one of the biggest aquifers in south america.

Do you actually plan on living there? Or are you just interested in having a second 'nationality' for when TSHTF? I thought about such an option, and then abandoned it because it was expensive and risky. You can do better living in rural parts of the US, and moving youself 'off the grid'. That's just my opinion, for what it's worth.


Hatha

[Large Sarge]

hey Skirnir,

I looked into paraguay awhile back, and it was cheap cheap...

I want to say it was under $2000

maybe they have raised prices.?

I believe the sovereign man had a write up on this

the other one is the dominican republic, same price, same time line, much better weather than land locked parguay,

[Skirnir_]

hey Skirnir,

I looked into paraguay awhile back, and it was cheap cheap...

I want to say it was under $2000

maybe they have raised prices.?

I believe the sovereign man had a write up on this

the other one is the dominican republic, same price, same time line, much better weather than land locked parguay,

DR now has a different timeline: eight years. They changed the requisite length of permanent residence before they spit out the passport. Furthermore, a DR passport offers virtually 0 visa-free travel compared to Paraguay's.


Wouldn't you have to show some utility receipts, or economic activity to actually be considered as a citizen there?

A paper trail could not hurt, though one is considered a permanent resident for purposes of naturalisation merely by holding a cedula. I might spawn a paper tiger by asking the lawyer to rent me a room; maybe he might accept the rent as part of his remuneration ;D

[Libertytree]

in Costa Rica if you ask about the official price and pre-requisites for achieving residency you'll get one set of numbers and regs, if you make a trip there and park it for 3 months and socialize, find a local lawyer and a friendly judge you can get what you want cheaper and quicker.

One thing you can't delude yourself into thinking...you'll always be a Norte American, you'll always be an outsider. After about the 7 year mark you gain better acceptance but you'll still be an outsider.

Before doing anything, let alone finalizing a destination, go spend 2 or 3 months there. Usually, 90 days is when you have to leave the country for 72 hours, getting your passport stamped going and coming back in, this is mandatory if you're not a resident. You'll also need to find someone you can trust to watch your stuff when you leave where your staying or it'll be gone when you get back.

If you don't already...start learning Spanish ...yesterday.

[Skirnir_]

in Costa Rica if you ask about the official price and pre-requisites for achieving residency you'll get one set of numbers and regs, if you make a trip there and park it for 3 months and socialize, find a local lawyer and a friendly judge you can get what you want cheaper and quicker.

One thing you can't delude yourself into thinking...you'll always be a Norte American, you'll always be an outsider. After about the 7 year mark you gain better acceptance but you'll still be an outsider.

Before doing anything, let alone finalizing a destination, go spend 2 or 3 months there. Usually, 90 days is when you have to leave the country for 72 hours, getting your passport stamped going and coming back in, this is mandatory if you're not a resident. You'll also need to find someone you can trust to watch your stuff when you leave where your staying or it'll be gone when you get back.

If you don't already...start learning Spanish ...yesterday.

I'm not planning on actually living there, though Paraguay requires that naturalised citizens stop by every three years and hang around (for how long the law does not specify), or they forfeit their citizenship. I am not sure if it's actually enforced, buy why take a chance?

[Horn]

I'm not planning on actually living there, though Paraguay requires that naturalised citizens stop by every three years and hang around (for how long the law does not specify), or they forfeit their citizenship. I am not sure if it's actually enforced, buy why take a chance?

Right, you'll probably have to renew your I.D. which could take any number of weeks.

Here in C.R. it takes at least 6-8. Maybe if you just get a pay as you go cell phone there, it might be enough to "backup" your claim to being there.

Is Skype available to pull a number from there, and forward to the mobile?

[Skirnir_]

Right, you'll probably have to renew your I.D. which could take any number of weeks.

Here in C.R. it takes at least 6-8. Maybe if you just get a pay as you go cell phone there, it might be enough to "backup" your claim to being there.

Is Skype available to pull a number from there, and forward to the mobile?

The cedula never expires, and the passport is good for 10yr and can be renewed so long as one remains a Paraguayan citizen.

[Horn]

Right, C.R. here is becoming more like U.S. every month. They just recently instated a yearly tax on the cedula numbers. Something like $150 every year to keep it valid.

Also Income Tax is coming to C.R. simply due to the fact that the existing product sales tax remains uncollected, in large part because those same people in Government that make the tax laws own all the businesses responsible for paying it...

[Skirnir_]

Right, C.R. here is becoming more like U.S. every month. They just recently instated a yearly tax on the cedula numbers. Something like $150 every year to keep it valid.

Also Income Tax is coming to C.R. simply due to the fact that the existing product sales tax remains uncollected, in large part because those same people in Government that make the tax laws own all the businesses responsible for paying it...

It is fortunate that Paraguay is not Costa Rica.

[madfranks]

mark 'Hispanic / Latino' and receive affirmative action. I suggest gringos stand in the sun for 30min before attempting this

Nice. I like your sense of humor.

[Libertytree]

I don't think you've thought this through Skirnir, you can't just appear in any country and expect to be accepted and for life to go on as normal, even if you have legal status or not. I'll grant that you have a high IQ but in this instance you're common sense quotient is nill and your real life experience is the same. They'll eat you alive and you'll be the newbie gringo, suntan and all. You're better off staying in the states in a small town or out in the country, off grid.

[Ponce]

Skinir? your smart part is to check it out with a second lawyer, that's how I lost my ranch in Argentina..... for now I am staying right here for many reasons.......like.....soon it will be my property 100%, how will I get rid of all my silver?, how will I transfer the cash to a foreign country?, what could I do with my property here?, what would I do with all my seven or eight years of food?...........and of course, what would I do with my 1,741 rolls of tp????????????......besides all the other goodies that I have put away.

[Neuro]

Shit Ponce, you have built yourself a jail of toilet paper, food and silver!

[Dogman]

Skinir? your smart part is to check it out with a second lawyer, that's how I lost my ranch in Argentina..... for now I am staying right here for many reasons.......like.....soon it will be my property 100%, how will I get rid of all my silver?, how will I transfer the cash to a foreign country?, what could I do with my property here?, what would I do with all my seven or eight years of food?...........and of course, what would I do with my 1,741 rolls of tp????????????......besides all the other goodies that I have put away.


Shit Ponce, you have built yourself a jail of toilet paper, food and silver!

Neuro, what ponce is not saying is that if it gets real bad, he will use his bug out boat!

(The one he did not have a 'boating accident' with!) ;D

http://www.pixelparadox.com/pic/images/Nemi_ship_color.jpg

[iOWNme]

I have yet to see anyone address the most important question of all: Armaments.

What are you going to do for weapons used for self defense? What are Paraguay's gun Laws?

[Skirnir_]

I have yet to see anyone address the most important question of all: Armaments.

What are you going to do for weapons used for self defense? What are Paraguay's gun Laws?

That is something to ask the lawyer. I'll see what I can find; a google search suggests that they are on the liberal side, and there is enough corruption to streamline things.

[Horn]

That is something to ask the lawyer. I'll see what I can find; a google search suggests that they are on the liberal side, and there is enough corruption to streamline things.

I'm sure you could even hire your own personal armed security entourage on the cheap, if need be.

[Large Sarge]

Doug Casey covered this topic at length.

anmd his point of view was that down in S. America, and Central America to a lesser extent.

People do not respect or trust the govt, especially Argentina, uruguay (currency collapse, 2000)

So Govt officials are not trusted, tax collectors,

Casey makes the argument, that a general populace that ridicules, and refuses to trust the govt is the best u can hope for...

versus the U.S. where govt officials are gods

[DMac]

Skinir - look me up in a few years should you make it to Paraguay. I plan on owning my first property in Chile before 2014. What's a quick 25 hour bus ride among internet acquaintances?

[gunDriller]

I'm sure you could even hire your own personal armed security entourage on the cheap, if need be.

the trick is making sure their loyalty is more than one inch deep.

[chad]

my 2 cents. the conspiracy is global at this point; there is no getting away from it. if you are looking to remove yourself from people, etc. that can be done here for much less expense. good luck.

[Horn]

my 2 cents. the conspiracy is global at this point; there is no getting away from it. if you are looking to remove yourself from people, etc. that can be done here for much less expense. good luck.

But you might still escape any immediate implications to "yourself".

Or as "Kiyosaki" says, consume, or be consumed.

I'm reminded of Hyena stealing a quick piece away while Lions dine.

[k-os]

Skinir - look me up in a few years should you make it to Paraguay. I plan on owning my first property in Chile before 2014. What's a quick 25 hour bus ride among internet acquaintances?

^ This is awesome. ^

[midnight rambler]

my 2 cents. the conspiracy is global at this point; there is no getting away from it. if you are looking to remove yourself from people, etc. that can be done here for much less expense. good luck.

As has been pointed out earlier in this thread, one will ALWAYS be considered an outsider in a Latin culture. If one has not fully assimilated into the local culture (which takes many years, it took a relative of mine over 10-12 years to be 'fully' assimilated, and after over 20 years he STILL has to send a local out to buy some things so he doesn't get 'the gringo price') then one is hosed when sugar turns to shit. Best to be around your own kind.

Not saying that adapting to Latin culture cannot be done (with Horn as one example), but it takes commitment and working at it full time, all the time.

[Skirnir_]

I do not plan on residing in Paraguay itself; I plan on using the passport as an escape hatch. I am perceived as an outsider in this country too, so on the margin, it is not a consideration.

[Horn]

Not saying that adapting to Latin culture cannot be done (with Horn as one example), but it takes commitment and working at it full time, all the time.

Not sure about Paraguay specifically, but Argentinians are whiter in culture than most gringo's, in their mind... :)

They speak the Perfect Spanish, not my wayward truck driver Spanish.

Culture is a misnomer all in all.

[Skirnir_]

Skinir - look me up in a few years should you make it to Paraguay. I plan on owning my first property in Chile before 2014. What's a quick 25 hour bus ride among internet acquaintances?

Whereabouts in Chile?

[Horn]

The biggest difference I can state between the two "cultures" in a dish.

Its their differences in trust, Spanish law makes no exception for suckers. Lol

The final judgement is probably a more extreme example of who your lawyer knows if things remain in the private realm, if however they progress to the public realm you will receive a quick and decisive verdict, and are (in most cases) more just.

[DMac]

Whereabouts in Chile?

Top choice - La Serena
Middle pick, if I can deal with the cold - Puerto Montt\
Last pick(s) - Iquique/Antofagasta

The top choice is because of the people in the town; very friendly to whites. Beautiful city without being too over the top price wise. I also already have beach front land there. Question is to build on it for myself or to use if for commercial. As Ponce says you need the plan behind the plan behind the plan etc.

There are several variables I don't want to discuss in too much detail with the second pic. One is if I have an investor with me, then there are several farms/vineyards I have been watching in the south. 1 is an almond farm, the other 2 in my eye right now are fully functioning vineyards. Puerto Montt is in an incredible area in South Chile, similar to the PAC NW of USA.

Third is a tough call because I've visited the north several times and I love the arid climate. Iquique is not a safe city by Western standards. Antofagasta is safer but even further north.

At this stage of my possible expat future I've made connections all over Chile. The hard part is deciding where to pull the trigger.

Regardless I plan to own my first apt/house or farm there by 2014 sometime. Residency and all that is pretty easy in Chile. There is a ton of general info and expat community info all over the net.

[Neuro]

I do not plan on residing in Paraguay itself; I plan on using the passport as an escape hatch. I am perceived as an outsider in this country too, so on the margin, it is not a consideration.
Is a Paraguay passport good for getting entry visas to other countries that you prefer to go to?

[Skirnir_]

Is a Paraguay passport good for getting entry visas to other countries that you prefer to go to?

Very much so: not only much of South America, but also Europe and Singapore.