Let's discuss the Mysteries! (a place for Magnes and me to stop derailing threads)

[sirgonzo420]

I figured I'd start this thread in the hopes that an honest discussion may take place, with the future derailing of unrelated threads to be avoided.

Anyone is welcome to participate, but I'd really like to hear from Magnes, since he has so many words on the topic in other threads.


here's the wikified version of what went down for a loooong time in ancient Greece:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleusinian_Mysteries

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

I remember reading a story about the time a cult cut off the head of every statue in Greece, there was a war going back and forth, groups were trying to frame eachother for this (at the time) blasphemous crime

Many of the elite of athens were involved, I believe Alcibiades was accused

I'd really like to be able to find that information again...A few mentions here and there, but none of the power that the original account I read held



One night during preparations for the expedition, the hermai, heads of the god Hermes on a plinth with a phallus, were mutilated throughout Athens. This was a religious scandal and was seen as a bad omen for the mission. Plutarch explains that Androcles, a political leader, used false witnesses who accused Alcibiades and his friends of mutilating the statues, and of profaning the Eleusinian Mysteries. Later his opponents, chief among them being Androcles and Thessalus, Cimon's son, enlisted orators to argue that Alcibiades should set sail as planned and stand trial on his return from the campaign. Alcibiades was suspicious of their intentions, and asked to be allowed to stand trial immediately, under penalty of death, in order to clear his name.[29] This request was denied, and the fleet set sail soon after, with the charges unresolved.

[freespirit]

interesting reading, Gonzo...

[MAGNES]

Knock yourself out, I seem to recall you derailing my threads on this.

It is good you are going to be in here.

Have fun.

Just a small note, everyone knows Athens, it is named after Athena, this is what
dominated, Athena is a Justice Giver, she is also " Parthena " and the Parthenon
gets is name from this, which translates directly to " virgin " but it is allegory
for her role to be uncorrupted. So she gives " fair and even justice ",
uncorrupted , etc, law courts, representation, justice, law,
isnomia = equal justice for all, ie, precedent used in verdicts,
everyone is treated the same, no selective enforcement, etc.

Nothing is perfect though , we all know that.

1000 years ago we still had trials by fire, by ordeal, by water in Northern Europe.
The Christians put a stop to the barbarity and related worse and brought some Justice.

You can contrast those trials with the Greeks that Gonzo is trying to paint as Occultists.

Even the backward Mountain Tribes that were called " Barbarians " by the City States,
had trials, where people spoke in assembly, cases were made, there was also appeals tribunals,
The Hellenistic Age was created by these people, not the familiar City States, one of the greatest
periods of advancement of the Western World, scholars say that not me.

A small note on Greek Mythology and it is relevant here, what is Greek Mythology,
even the Ancient Greeks recognized it as allegory, metaphor, Historians even
changed parts of it when it came to dialects and relations of tribes, it is basically
the world explained in Allegory/Metaphor, forces of nature, and Man was a very
big part of this, Freedom , Democracy, Justice, Law, Common Law, Good Order,
Peace, Judgement, WAR, are all inter related and they are all Greek Mythology that
drove the Greeks and they are all presented as Gods, natural forces of nature,
even the less advanced Greeks understood this, old beliefs. The Greeks discussed Free Will,
wrote about it, and understood that Man was meant to be free, and if not
there will be war. JFK Speaks to this and references it, a schooled man.
To Freedom, always a natural condition of man, even quotes Solon, to be involved.
Solon is also an ancestor of Plato, Solon is also very relevant to much of what
we post on this forum, Economics.

My avatar actually represents a lot of the above I spoke to.
And related images.

Much of the main images on modern PM's have not changed as well.
SAE's, older Ag going back. In other Western countries too.

Relevant Here.

Plato is The West, I don't say this, Scholars do.
" Justice and the Moral State " his main topic, where we
can only have this if people are educated, hence Plato's Cave Allegory.
Open societies, not hidden Occult crap, where you must be involved.
Plato is the total antithesis to Masons/Occult, etc .

" The safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato." Whitehead

So I bought a copy of Pike's Morals & Dogma.... (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?44682-So-I-bought-a-copy-of-Pike-s-Morals-amp-Dogma)
and
Plato And The Kabbalah (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?46387-Plato-And-The-Kabbalah)


One word sums all of the above up, JUSTICE !

[sirgonzo420]

What Great Greek Thinkers had to say about the Mysteries:


according to Plato: "the ultimate design of the Mysteries … was to lead us back to the principles from which we descended, … a perfect enjoyment of intellectual [spiritual] good."


"For among the many excellent and indeed divine institutions which your Athens has brought forth and contributed to human life, none, in my opinion, is better than those mysteries. For by their means we have been brought out of our barbarous and savage mode of life and educated and refined to a state of civilization; and as the rites are called 'initiations,' so in very truth we have learned from them the beginnings of life, and have gained the power not only to live happily, but also to die with a better hope," - Cicero, Laws II, xiv, 36.


Sophocles: “Thrice blessed are those mortals who see these mysteries …”

[vacuum]

I'd like to try to clear up a few things for everyone, based on my understanding. Magnes, I hope you can see where I'm coming from here.

Here's my understanding:

The word "occult" means hidden or obscured. What "the occult" refers to is simply a very broad range of things that we can't easily see or understand through a simple analysis.

In other words, it's not that the occult is hidden through physical means, like secret codes, but rather most of us can't perceive or understand it. For example, if you are listening to music, or painting, or browsing the web, you'd be practicing the occult according to your cat, because cats can't understand those activities. They do understand it when you eat, sit down and relax, pet them, sleep, etc. This is why there are various occult groups called "mystery schools" because they are studying things that at inherently mysterious and hard to understand. It would be like if cats got together and tried to figure out what the purpose of your stereo was, and experimented with listening to music.

Now there is definitely a dark side to all of this, and it is known as "the Occult" (capitalized). The Occult is basically when someone who is evil studies occult things. Because they are evil, they focus on certain areas of occult knowledge, like attaining power and forcing others to worship them. In other words, they manipulate us in hidden ways we can't even understand, and coerce us into serving them.

Before lumping all occult practices and knowledge into the second category, you have to understand something. There is a big difference between the way good people and evil people practice the occult. Being evil usually requires a much more rigid structure. They generally have to have a pyramid type organization for a couple reasons. First, they do physically hide information from those beneath them. Like with secret books, codes, etc. It's like circles within circles, where one group thinks they know everything and control everything, but there is a secret group within that group that actually controls them. And within that secret group, they are unknowingly controlled. It goes all the way up to a few individuals.

Good people who study the occult do it totally different however. The good people don't use organizations because they have no inherent need to control others. For the good people, there are no secret codes or handshakes. That's because they recognize that the hidden knowledge is actually within themselves. The good ones who study the occult have the goal of self-knowledge. The good ones gain more freedom at the end of the day, the bad ones have less freedom, because their masters always require more of them.

The good guys who study the occult do it through a student-teacher method. One person who is learned takes a handful of students and builds them up until they are equal to the master. By doing this, the master can reach greater heights. This is how Jesus operated.

You can easily see why you never see the good side of the occult. It's always scattered about and only involves a teacher and a few students. They keep to themselves mostly. On the other hand, the negative side is easy to see. It's generally a pyramid, spreading control from a central source.

So just because something isn't easily understood, doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. There will always be things which are just beyond the limits of most people's perception or understanding. Just because there is a body of writings and practices associated with this mystical knowledge that doesn't make sense, it doesn't mean it's evil. Like anything, it can be used for good or evil. We know it can be used for evil because we see it every day. But once we become aware of it, and don't react in a predictable manner, we can escape it. Realizing we are ignorant (we're all ignorant about some things), is the first step to learning new things.

[singular_me]

Excellent vacuum... I like how you formulate it and will borrow some of your sentences in the future, if you permit :)


according to Plato: "the ultimate design of the Mysteries … was to lead us back to the principles from which we descended, … a perfect enjoyment of intellectual [spiritual] good."

Plato is Magnes' favorite philosopher... not sure why as Magnes regards occultism as a poison.

[JohnQPublic]

There is a great danger in dabbling in the occult. According to Christian theology, we are n a fallen state. This means that there are things that we cannot understand (period). But we can be deceived into believing that we do understand something, that we actually do not (a good example of this from Christian theology is Eve and the forbidden fruit). I am not pleading for voluntary ignorance, but I would warn you that if you believe you know something esoteric that no one else does, and try and use it to your advantage, you may be being deceived. You need to be able to discern what could be real, and what likely is deception, illusion, etc.

The key to maintaining sanity is to have some understanding of the hierarchy in existence, with God at the apex.

[JDRock]

i dunno, its all greek to me ...arr arr arrr

[singular_me]

There is a great danger in dabbling in the occult. According to Christian theology, we are n a fallen state. This means that there are things that we cannot understand (period). But we can be deceived into believing that we do understand something, that we actually do not (a good example of this from Christian theology is Eve and the forbidden fruit). I am not pleading for voluntary ignorance, but I would warn you that if you believe you know something esoteric that no one else does, and try and use it to your advantage, you may be being deceived. You need to be able to discern what could be real, and what likely is deception, illusion, etc.

The key to maintaining sanity is to have some understanding of the hierarchy in existence, with God at the apex.

thats surely a wise piece of advice, John. But we are bathing into the occult on a daily basis. It is all over, inescapable. I am very glad that my quest to understand the meaning of power and go back to its very roots, has taught me how to recognize subliminal theosophic brainwashing.

However, ignorance (induced or not and/or added to the fear factor) has always ugly consequence, its inescapable... Knowledge will remain a double edged sword as long as humanity exists. Embracing challenges and deal with them (know everything about the topic) is the only way out.

Best

[MAGNES]

Plato is Magnes' favorite philosopher... not sure why as Magnes regards occultism as a poison.

{0}

Goldie, you are hilarious, I don't feel like having the same conversations over and over.

What does what Gonzo posted have anything to do with the " modern occult " we
were talking about ? This is a game being played. One has nothing to do with the other.
Other than rip offs and corruptions.

Occultism is poison, you are a big promoter of it which is why you defend it.

Total TheoSophist MO on your part. And outed on here in a big way.

Also smearing Plato, this is not what Plato is known for.

Not that you give a shit on a " freedom forum " .

The Occult corrupts Western History, the Classics, rips it off, etc,
YOU DO THIS TOO, this is how you got outed in a big way.

Key History and People are targetted for a reason, Christians take note,
and learn this history I have posted on here, it is very Pro Western.
And Pro Christian, this is why people like Goldie call me a Christian.

The " modern Occult " was restarted by " gnostics " , very Anti Christians,
real haters, very Anti Western, the Jews are behind it. They are also behind
the " new age " , like the " gnostics " you can't really define it, what they do
have in common is their ANTI stance on ideas, beliefs, fits totally with taking
apart Christian Western Countries, neither were/are effective, but organized
groups like the Masons and Partners have been effective, lots of NGO's out there
even at UN level running around.

Goldie defends " zeitgeist " again, total NWO disinfo we have dissected on GIM,
on here, she refuses to learn, nor does she care, the Occult is behind Zeitgeist
and they have been outed going back to GIM, these conversations with Goldie
started in a Zeitgeist thread on GIM, where she corrupted Plato, whether she
understood this or not, I mentioned Plato, she countered, " no ", I countered,
that is just more confirmation of corrupting Plato, I posted about how " new
age " is not new and they rip off and corrupt, I mentioned Blat witch and the
conversation came to a complete stop, LOL . In that thread I also conceded
some points because of IndoEuropean, common beliefs have an origin, that is not a proof
one against the other, but I was wrong to even do that on further examination.
People like Zeitgeist because it is highly Anti Christian.

actually Magnes, I was wondering about when you'd mention my name...
and sorry I still think that the Zeitgeist series is a great doc. The last part: Zeitgeist, Moving Forward especially and whose segments I also translated for their french subtitled version.

Goldie had a very revealing forum, so does Skyvike, she was a part of it, LOL .

No Aliens here Goldie.
Zeitgeist does not make this list.
Magnes Compiled Old Schoool GIM Movie List (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?60740-Magnes-Compiled-Old-Schoool-GIM-Movie-List)


Parallel Universes exist, time travel possible (tough one for Religions) (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?24194-Parallel-Universes-exist-time-travel-possible-%28tough-one-for-Religions%29)

http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?p=224654#post224654

Lucifer is a Latin word literally meaning "light-bearer" (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?26550-Lucifer-is-a-Latin-word-literally-meaning-quot-light-bearer-quot)

You are a satan worshiper if... (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?29098-You-are-a-satan-worshiper-if...)

BEHOLD, THE MASONIC OCCULT

SKYKIKES SITE, THE EYE MOVES WITH YOU
http://www.dailydiatribe.net/

Why would anyone want to be openly allied with these shits?
My Avatar , Egyptian Minuteman Eye ! (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?43731-My-Avatar-Egyptian-Minuteman-Eye-%21)

Yes I do make cases against people, their background and where they are coming from.
It's important especially in cases like this, read the links, I strongly encourage everyone
to study TheoSophist MO going back to beginning of these forums, it ain't hard, it's at
http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?p=224654#post224654
the root of a lot. There are Occult/NewAge forums out there that follow this MO and the
people on them may be copying and pasting nonsense that fits this MO without even knowing
what they are doing. We have see this on GIM and on here, and they do not give sources
for a reason, certain categories, I can name them, posted.


http://i40.tinypic.com/256cjg2.jpg

[sirgonzo420]

So Magnes, do you actually want to discuss the 3000+ years of the Eleusinian Mysteries?

If not, WHY not?

I thought you liked history!

[singular_me]

{0}

Goldie, you are hilarious, I don't feel like having the same conversations over and over.
but your attacks are always the same, Magnes darling :). Some are doing a better job than I at responding them.



smearing Plato, this is not what Plato is known for.

here is one among many links

www.reversespins.com/OraclesandMysterySchools.html
According to the Rosicrucian Society, Plato was a member of their Mystery school. Here people knew about Ancient civilizations. Plato also wrote about Atlantis.

[MAGNES]

LOL !

Keep repeating your program.

Some of us actually went to school after encountering you people.

It's very interesting how people on forums are motivated to do what you do.

You have an agenda.

I don't post about aliens, troll the Christians, troll and corrupt Western History.

SKYKIKE smelled like shit and got outed cause of this too.

People wonder why I constantly reference this history and my adversaries never do, NEVER !

LONG LIVE FRED !

[singular_me]

right, if one does avoid or trash what is deemed an agenda, one has no agenda ???

ps: what zeitgeist says about Christianity shouldnt matter at all because the Bible still has great concepts and allegories to share. In my view CharacterS are irrelevant but their insights.

edit: Doesnt the Bible warn against idolatry?

[ShortJohnSilver]

Is humour or humor, allowed in this thread?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf6FRtmZewg&feature=related

[JDRock]

Is humour or humor, allowed in this thread?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf6FRtmZewg&feature=related
yes...see post #9

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

I for one would like to see some questions answered, without accusations, stick to the history.


Is it true, or is it not true, that Plato was involved in the mystery schools? It's a yes or no question


Why did plato write about atlantis? Go nuts with this one, was it supposed to be a metaphor?






If you study history it becomes VERY obvious that there is a parallel secret history that some people have access to. Look at the works of John Dee and Sir Francis Bacon, they had knowledge that wasn't taught in universities but was passed down to them from somewhere, lots of historical figures have alluded to this same type of secret knowledge throughout the ages, some historical figures have outright stated that they were given secret knowledge

My personal opinion is that there was a civilization that had science that existed before the start of our written history, it makes no sense to me to have written history be so short, only 7,000 years old, if humans truly evolved then our written history would be much much longer than that. You and I are biologically identical to the Romans and Greeks, more or less, it should have taken us hundreds of thousands of years to evolve, written history should start at 50,000 BCE or earlier. It will be hard to convince me that 10,000 years ago we were so dumb we had not yet figured out that putting seeds in the ground produces a plant, yet we are mentally and physically the same as the humans who lived at the start of written history....See what I'm getting at? I'm not saying I know the answer but I sure have questions.


I think the hidden knowledge passed down throughout the ages are the scientific discoveries that survived from that previous civ. This has always been my gut feeling, I don't actually know. But it seems to me like having advanced knowledge of magnetism, etheric energy, sacred meditation etc would make you very powerful in the early bronze age.


I understand that scientific discoveries are exponential but it makes no sense that we have absolutely zero records of certain time periods and then all of a sudden we have full fledged societies with writing, reading, math, science, metallurgy, ship-making, chemistry, textiles, color dies, advanced scientific principles like resonance frequencies, star charts....


this is just a stream of consciousness, don't hold me to it

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

You have ordered Plato: The complete works

You have ordered "The Eleusinian mysteries"


I'm going to simply take it upon myself to educate myself on the matter

[Neuro]

I for one would like to see some questions answered, without accusations, stick to the history.


Is it true, or is it not true, that Plato was involved in the mystery schools? It's a yes or no question


Why did plato write about atlantis? Go nuts with this one, was it supposed to be a metaphor?






If you study history it becomes VERY obvious that there is a parallel secret history that some people have access to. Look at the works of John Dee and Sir Francis Bacon, they had knowledge that wasn't taught in universities but was passed down to them from somewhere, lots of historical figures have alluded to this same type of secret knowledge throughout the ages, some historical figures have outright stated that they were given secret knowledge

My personal opinion is that there was a civilization that had science that existed before the start of our written history, it makes no sense to me to have written history be so short, only 7,000 years old, if humans truly evolved then our written history would be much much longer than that. You and I are biologically identical to the Romans and Greeks, more or less, it should have taken us hundreds of thousands of years to evolve, written history should start at 50,000 BCE or earlier. It will be hard to convince me that 10,000 years ago we were so dumb we had not yet figured out that putting seeds in the ground produces a plant, yet we are mentally and physically the same as the humans who lived at the start of written history....See what I'm getting at? I'm not saying I know the answer but I sure have questions.


I think the hidden knowledge passed down throughout the ages are the scientific discoveries that survived from that previous civ. This has always been my gut feeling, I don't actually know. But it seems to me like having advanced knowledge of magnetism, etheric energy, sacred meditation etc would make you very powerful in the early bronze age.


I understand that scientific discoveries are exponential but it makes no sense that we have absolutely zero records of certain time periods and then all of a sudden we have full fledged societies with writing, reading, math, science, metallurgy, ship-making, chemistry, textiles, color dies, advanced scientific principles like resonance frequencies, star charts....


this is just a stream of consciousness, don't hold me to it
I don't think there was a civilization prior to 12.000 years ago, because there really is no good evidence of it. I as you believe that humans have had about the same brainpower for around 100.000 years ago, but when people lived in really small hunter gatherer societies there was no need for a written language, first when kingdoms were formed involving many thousands of people did a written language get utility, to spread propaganda, edicts and information to the people, and to record collected taxes and history, and those who could interpret the hieroglyphs became part of the hierarchy. Sure they probably figured out that planting seeds was possible to grow food, but when you are a nomad on the move, how will you harvest it 3 months later? Further farming land without any suitable tools that require metals is incredibly hard work, and takes a long time, when you can just go and tear up some plants that have edible roots, or trap an animal. Population was not culled as the ice age gave way 12.000 years ago, and it grew to the point that some areas had to little space to support all hunter gatherers comfortably, friction and battles developed over the best areas for foraging, better to stay put their, but as your own tribes population grew, more food was needed, and longer distances walking was needed to collect said food for the tribe, better to collect the roots that you liked and grow them in the vicinity in higher concentration, or catch the slowest, dumbest and most docile animal (a pregnant cow), and let the calfs grow up nearby...

I haven't seen any convincing evidence of a Pre-civilization civilization, but I think one reason why there were little technical development was because the precivilization societies really didn't have much need for them. Not because they were more stupid...