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View Full Version : government takeover of private retirement has begun!



chad
2nd October 2012, 12:35 PM
i didn't hear ANYTHING about this on the news, not a peep.

california has a bill, sb 1234, that would create s state run private retirement fund for low income private workers. they'd pay in 3% of their salary, and the state will run their retirement program for them. if this passes, expect a few ting to happen:

1. california will immediately spend any money paid in to the system to shore up existing state pensions & budget shortfalls. they'll replace the fund with IOUs.

2. since they spent all of the money and will continually need more, the cap that defines low income will be expanded upward until it covers virtually everyone.

3. the money will still all be spent, they'll still be a shortfall, and they'll need to start making little taxes on existing private 401ks etc. and roll the money in to the program.

4. they'll continue to spend all of the money and expand the little taxes upward until 100% of existing 401ks, etc. are rolled in, and retirement plans in california are 100% state run.

5. this will spread across the country as it always does.

i've been bitching about this for years, now it is finally here. this is probably the scariest piece of financial news i have read all year, maybe all decade. the voting masses of illegals and low income earners will DEMAND that politicians roll 100% of your private savings in to the program. if you live in california and this passes, GET THE FUCK OUT NOW.

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-09-28/calif-dot-creates-state-run-private-retirement-plan

Associated Press
SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — California Gov. Jerry Brown signed legislation Friday that will create the nation's first state-administered retirement savings program for private-sector workers, over the objection of critics who said it creates a new liability for taxpayers.

The bill, SB1234, will establish the California Secure Choice Retirement Savings Program for more than 6 million lower-income, private-sector workers whose employers do not offer retirement plans.
The program directs employers to withhold 3 percent of their workers' pay unless the employee opts out of the savings program, which can be done every two years. It would be administered by a nine-member board chaired by the state treasurer. The board would select a professional fund manager, which could be a private investment firm or the state's public pension system, to maintain the money.

The governor also signed companion legislation under SB923 that prevents the program from enrolling workers unless the Legislature gives authorization for the program to be fully implemented.

State Sen. Kevin De Leon, D-Los Angeles, introduced the bill earlier this year in response to what he called the "looming retirement tsunami" as millions of lower-wage workers face financial hardship in their retirement years. He said the program will act as a supplement to Social Security by offering private-sector workers a portable savings plan with a guaranteed return.

He said the program is not a pension but rather acts as a savings account, which could be a national model for improving retirement savings.
"This is a major step forward for retirement security in America," De Leon said in a statement. "I am grateful for Gov. Brown's acumen and with his leadership we are setting the path for middle class hard-working Americas to prepare for retirement so they won't be forced into poverty."

State Sen. Mimi Walters, R-Lake Forest, called SB1234 the "worst bill to make its way out of the legislature this year" because it would allow the state's main pension system to invest the money.
Walters noted that the California Public Employees' Retirement System is running a shortfall and that the savings program will be controlled by a group of "career politicians."

"SB1234 looks like nothing more than a cynical effort to prop up the floundering public employee pension debt with new funds from private investors," Walters wrote in a blog ahead of the bill signing.
Many cities and counties already pool their contributions along with the state in the public pension system, but taxpayers are on the hook to cover public employee benefits if investment projections fall short.

It's too soon to say what would happen if CalPERS managed the new retirement program, said pension fund's spokesman, Brad Pacheco. CalPERS could create a separate account for private-sector workers, although it's more likely to pool investments with public employees.

CalPERS' fund posted an annual return of just 1 percent last year, missing its own long-term annual target of 7.5 percent. It currently has an estimated long-term unfunded liability of $100 billion.

Democratic lawmakers said the program gives workers more savings options, particularly women working low-paying jobs. Supporters say it will not cost the state money because it will be backed by underwriters and reinsured to protect returns. De Leon noted that the money would be placed into low-risk investments with interest guaranteed at a low rate tied to long-term Treasury bond yields.

Participants would also have to sign a liability waiver stating that California would not be liable for losses.

The bill would not be implemented unless the savings program is projected to be self-sustaining and exempt from federal rules that cover private-sector defined benefit plans. Such plans have to meet minimum standards under the federal Employee Retirement Income Security Act.

The bill also requires the board to submit an annual audit. It was initially opposed by businesses, insurance companies and financial services firms. Business groups such as the California Chamber of Commerce dropped opposition after changes were made to the bill, according to De Leon's staff.

Republican lawmakers who opposed the program when it was moving through the Legislature said low-income workers might be better off financially if they put after-tax earnings into a Roth IRA, which would allow them to take their contributions tax-free in retirement.

They also said there were too many unanswered questions about the program. GOP lawmakers said if the underwriter fails to meet investment targets, taxpayers and employers could be held responsible for covering losses and administrative overhead.

sirgonzo420
2nd October 2012, 12:40 PM
I heard next they are going for privately owned stoves and stove accessories.

chad
2nd October 2012, 12:41 PM
I heard next they are going for privately owned stoves and stove accessories.

that will be the one that sets me off, especially if they come for isobutane canisters.

sirgonzo420
2nd October 2012, 12:43 PM
i didn't hear ANYTHING about this on the news, not a peep.

california has a bill, sb 1234, that would create s state run private retirement fund for low income private workers. they'd pay in 3% of their salary, and the state will run their retirement program for them. if this passes, expect a few ting to happen:

1. california will immediately spend any money paid in to the system to shore up existing state pensions & budget shortfalls. they'll replace the fund with IOUs.

2. since they spent all of the money and will continually need more, the cap that defines low income will be expanded upward until it covers virtually everyone.

3. the money will still all be spent, they'll still be a shortfall, and they'll need to start making little taxes on existing private 401ks etc. and roll the money in to the program.

4. they'll continue to spend all of the money and expand the little taxes upward until 100% of existing 401ks, etc. are rolled in, and retirement plans in california are 100% state run.

5. this will spread across the country as it always does.

i've been bitching about this for years, now it is finally here. this is probably the scariest piece of financial news i have read all year, maybe all decade. the voting masses of illegals and low income earners will DEMAND that politicians roll 100% of your private savings in to the program. if you live in california and this passes, GET THE FUCK OUT NOW.

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-09-28/calif-dot-creates-state-run-private-retirement-plan

Associated Press
SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — California Gov. Jerry Brown signed legislation Friday that will create the nation's first state-administered retirement savings program for private-sector workers, over the objection of critics who said it creates a new liability for taxpayers.

The bill, SB1234, will establish the California Secure Choice Retirement Savings Program for more than 6 million lower-income, private-sector workers whose employers do not offer retirement plans.
The program directs employers to withhold 3 percent of their workers' pay unless the employee opts out of the savings program, which can be done every two years. It would be administered by a nine-member board chaired by the state treasurer. The board would select a professional fund manager, which could be a private investment firm or the state's public pension system, to maintain the money.

The governor also signed companion legislation under SB923 that prevents the program from enrolling workers unless the Legislature gives authorization for the program to be fully implemented.

State Sen. Kevin De Leon, D-Los Angeles, introduced the bill earlier this year in response to what he called the "looming retirement tsunami" as millions of lower-wage workers face financial hardship in their retirement years. He said the program will act as a supplement to Social Security by offering private-sector workers a portable savings plan with a guaranteed return.

He said the program is not a pension but rather acts as a savings account, which could be a national model for improving retirement savings.
"This is a major step forward for retirement security in America," De Leon said in a statement. "I am grateful for Gov. Brown's acumen and with his leadership we are setting the path for middle class hard-working Americas to prepare for retirement so they won't be forced into poverty."

State Sen. Mimi Walters, R-Lake Forest, called SB1234 the "worst bill to make its way out of the legislature this year" because it would allow the state's main pension system to invest the money.
Walters noted that the California Public Employees' Retirement System is running a shortfall and that the savings program will be controlled by a group of "career politicians."

"SB1234 looks like nothing more than a cynical effort to prop up the floundering public employee pension debt with new funds from private investors," Walters wrote in a blog ahead of the bill signing.
Many cities and counties already pool their contributions along with the state in the public pension system, but taxpayers are on the hook to cover public employee benefits if investment projections fall short.

It's too soon to say what would happen if CalPERS managed the new retirement program, said pension fund's spokesman, Brad Pacheco. CalPERS could create a separate account for private-sector workers, although it's more likely to pool investments with public employees.

CalPERS' fund posted an annual return of just 1 percent last year, missing its own long-term annual target of 7.5 percent. It currently has an estimated long-term unfunded liability of $100 billion.

Democratic lawmakers said the program gives workers more savings options, particularly women working low-paying jobs. Supporters say it will not cost the state money because it will be backed by underwriters and reinsured to protect returns. De Leon noted that the money would be placed into low-risk investments with interest guaranteed at a low rate tied to long-term Treasury bond yields.

Participants would also have to sign a liability waiver stating that California would not be liable for losses.

The bill would not be implemented unless the savings program is projected to be self-sustaining and exempt from federal rules that cover private-sector defined benefit plans. Such plans have to meet minimum standards under the federal Employee Retirement Income Security Act.

The bill also requires the board to submit an annual audit. It was initially opposed by businesses, insurance companies and financial services firms. Business groups such as the California Chamber of Commerce dropped opposition after changes were made to the bill, according to De Leon's staff.

Republican lawmakers who opposed the program when it was moving through the Legislature said low-income workers might be better off financially if they put after-tax earnings into a Roth IRA, which would allow them to take their contributions tax-free in retirement.

They also said there were too many unanswered questions about the program. GOP lawmakers said if the underwriter fails to meet investment targets, taxpayers and employers could be held responsible for covering losses and administrative overhead.




What could possibly go wrong?

chad
2nd October 2012, 12:45 PM
and they want calpers to manage it. the same calpers that is only 40% funded and just asked for 600 million dollars. oh yeah, it's coming.

Dogman
2nd October 2012, 12:48 PM
They are doing or trying to do on a state level, that the feds have been doing for the last 'What' 40 years or so.

chad
2nd October 2012, 12:58 PM
if this gets implemented, it will slowly turn in to a giant, hulking, machine that eats up the private funds of all of the workers in the state. it will be done with class warfare; the illegals and low-income will DEMAND it. they'll be pages of newspaper commentary about how the xyz% don't have enough in their accounts and it's not fair that others do.

chad
2nd October 2012, 01:23 PM
i guess it already passed, brown signed it in to law on sunday.

midnight rambler
2nd October 2012, 01:27 PM
What exactly is it about living in a Communist utopia that bothers some of you so much?? ???

zap
2nd October 2012, 01:46 PM
bumping, so i can find it later.

chad
2nd October 2012, 01:56 PM
i emailed my friend "mark" about it. he's a high school principal in san bernadino.

he just emailed me back. he said the rank and file teachers at his school are ecstatic about it, as they've already been told **allegedly** that don't worry, the money is going to be fed in to calpers for their pension funds. i don't know who told them that, but he's insinuating it was the union reps.

edit: changed my friend's name to a fake one. probably easy to figure out who he is otherwise.

gunDriller
2nd October 2012, 02:06 PM
if this gets implemented, it will slowly turn in to a giant, hulking, machine that eats up the private funds of all of the workers in the state.

sounds like a description of California - 20 years ago.

Ponce
2nd October 2012, 02:44 PM
They only wants to make sure that "they", the coat and ties, will keep on getting paid with a indirect tax.......

Hatha Sunahara
2nd October 2012, 02:58 PM
Here's a link to a copy of CALPERS CAFR.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=cafr+calpers&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.calpers.ca.gov%2Feip-docs%2Fabout%2Fpubs%2Fcomprehensive-annual-fina-report-2011.pdf&ei=J2FrULPNEMriigLu0YH4Cg&usg=AFQjCNGOm92f4jFwtbp0bmh1lFTXQhQ8Wg&cad=rja

Open it, or download it, and look on P. 21.

They have $240 Billion in net assets. That couldn't possibly be insufficient to pay the pensions of the public employees it was designed to provide pensions for. According to Clint Richardson and Walter Burien, the public employees pension funds throughout the country is where the governments hide the surplus money. The arguments they make about raising taxes come from showing you the BUDGET (not the CAFR) which doesn't tell you how much money they really have.

Here, check out Clint Richardson on California fooling the voters into another tax increase:

http://realitybloger.wordpress.com/tag/calpers-cafr/

It's likely that they want to increase these assets. Either that, or they are in danger of losing all of that money because they have been dabbling in derivatives.


Hatha

chad
2nd October 2012, 03:10 PM
so what actually happens to all of that cafr off books money? hookers and blow?

Glass
2nd October 2012, 03:19 PM
so what actually happens to all of that cafr off books money? hookers and blow?

Bombs, hookers and blow

Twisted Titan
2nd October 2012, 04:30 PM
I bought 8 mercury dimes today and paid 20 bucks

I am better protected against financial disater then probally 90% of cali

This is gonna get so ugly before its over

Libertarian_Guard
2nd October 2012, 05:20 PM
I bought 8 mercury dimes today and paid 20 bucks

I am better protected against financial disater then probally 90% of cali

This is gonna get so ugly before its over

Excluding people with farm land. You're better perpared that 99% of cali.

Sparky
2nd October 2012, 06:35 PM
Wow, great catch chad. The further I read into the article, the worse it got. Doesn't this sentence set off some kind of an alarm:

Participants would also have to sign a liability waiver stating that California would not be liable for losses.

Ding ding ding ding ding! Jeez, wake the F up.

OK, setting all of that aside, isn't this what Social Security is for? With SS, they're already stealing 7.5%, and another 7.5% from your employer. And although your SS will be paid back in diluted $USD, at least they are guaranteeing payment. Here, they're saying you will eventually be paid back whatever is left over after they've skimmed it for current retirees, and of course "plan administration costs".

This really is quite a disturbing development.

Uncle Salty
2nd October 2012, 08:18 PM
Hey, at least the program is voluntary. So, only a fucking retard would enroll, and get what they deserve.

sirgonzo420
2nd October 2012, 08:28 PM
Hey, at least the program is voluntary. So, only a fucking retard would enroll, and get what they deserve.

Just like the income tax system!

madfranks
2nd October 2012, 09:26 PM
Hey, at least the program is voluntary. So, only a fucking retard would enroll, and get what they deserve.

Of course that's how they start it. Mandatory enrollment will eventually be phased in.

Glass
2nd October 2012, 10:13 PM
Of course that's how they start it. Mandatory enrollment will eventually be phased in.

There seems to be this doctrine of majority volunteers = mandatory compliance.

Not sure how to phrase that. It starts as voluntary, then when a majority are signed on, the remainder are forced into joining because it has to be mutual or "everyone has to be in" for it to work. It will be some kind of thing like that.

Rule of Thumb (RoT): When the government takes an inch you can be certain they are planning to take a mile.

vacuum
2nd October 2012, 10:23 PM
There seems to be this doctrine of majority volunteers = mandatory compliance.

Not sure how to phrase that.

This phenomena is not just limited to situations like this. It also occurs with technology. For example, as soon as full body scanning technology became available, it was implemented.

As soon as anything is cheap enough, easy enough, and has a small enough resistance against it, it's implemented. It doesn't matter what it is.

I don't even think the plan originally goes very far into the future. The people who implement it genuinely think that it will be limited, probably even some who originate it. But then it gets out of their control and increases with a life of it's own. It's like it's own automata.

chad
3rd October 2012, 04:40 AM
it's mandatory in the sense that everyone under a certain level is automatically opted in automatically. you have the option to opt out. employers must, by law, enroll everyone in this if the pay is below a certain level. the illegals and low income will be dazzeled with bullshit to keep them from opting out.