America will experience Weimar type hyperinflation

[Large Sarge]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Sy6r1tcGrk&feature=share

[undgrd]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Sy6r1tcGrk&feature=share


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Sy6r1tcGrk

[JDRock]

we let the SAME tribe that destroyed germanys monetary system twice, and we expect different results!

[Bigjon]

Hyperinflation can't happen, because our local exspurt Carl guaranteed us deflation (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?63977-Predicting-America-s-Future-Courtesy-Of-Ancient-History&p=578054&viewfull=1#post578054).

[chad]

i don't think we'll ever see hyperinflation. i think it's far more likely everyone wakes up one morning and the system is shut off for 4 or 5 hours. then, it's turned back on with a new "monetary" unit.

[Ponce]

Only problem is that we are not Germany and will never be again what we were ........ the Ameeican people got so used to riding the easy boat that they forgot about the bugs that were eatin the wood and never pay attention to the sharks waiting in the water......we ths people should have done as Iceland did.......but.......we the people are not them.

First post of the day........good morning to one and all.

[madfranks]

Hyperinflation won't happen unless Congress nationalizes the Fed. Think about it, hyperinflation hurts creditors the worst, and who are the biggest creditors? The "too big to fail" banks. And who represents the "too big to fail" banks? The Federal Reserve! Right now the Fed is printing money to prop up the government, but there will come a moment, as the inflation gets larger and larger, that the Fed will have to choose between keeping interest rates at 0 by directly funding the government via the printing press (hyperinflation) or stop funding the gov't, let interest rates rise and save the banking system (deflation). If the fed stops buying treasuries, either Congress nationalizes the Fed and the money printing goes into overdrive, or interest rates rise and we have a depression so bad it will make the first great depression seem like a tea party as the banks reposses and seize every piece of collateral in the nation.

[slowbell]

Hyperinflation won't happen unless Congress nationalizes the Fed. Think about it, hyperinflation hurts creditors the worst, and who are the biggest creditors? The "too big to fail" banks. And who represents the "too big to fail" banks? The Federal Reserve! Right now the Fed is printing money to prop up the government, but there will come a moment, as the inflation gets larger and larger, that the Fed will have to choose between keeping interest rates at 0 by directly funding the government via the printing press (hyperinflation) or stop funding the gov't, let interest rates rise and save the banking system (deflation). If the fed stops buying treasuries, either Congress nationalizes the Fed and the money printing goes into overdrive, or interest rates rise and we have a depression so bad it will make the first great depression seem like a tea party as the banks reposses and seize every piece of collateral in the nation.

Now this is something to think about. I don't think I've ever heard it put into such simple terms for folks to understand. So the indicator to watch for, is if the Fed gets nationalized. Either way, there's no avoiding a collapse. I wonder which situation would be worse. Hyperinflationary collapse, or the greatest of all depressions.

[Ponce]

Framks?............. I don't know anything about the money market but now is to late for the government to do anything about it....you now have a super snow ball rolling halfway down the hill with no way to stop it..........as I see it, because the dollar will be wothless what will be coming from the outside will cost a hell of a lot more or in another words...the hyperinflation has created itself without our help.......remember that around 87% of all that we use is imported.

[madfranks]

Framks?............. I don't know anything about the money market but now is to late for the government to do anything about it....you now have a super snow ball rolling halfway down the hill with no way to stop it..........as I see it, because the dollar will be wothless what will be coming from the outside will cost a hell of a lot more or in another words...the hyperinflation has created itself without our help.......remember that around 87% of all that we use is imported.

Of course it can't be avoided, there will be a "great default", but it will either be default by currency collapse (hyperinflation) or outright default in a traditional sense (interest rates soar, borrowing stops, lending stops, bonds are not paid, SS is not paid, medicare is not paid, banks repossess everything, greatest depression ever). To answer this question you simply ask who is the Fed more loyal to? The government, or the banks? I think the Fed is more loyal to the banks, which is why I expect it to refuse to continue propping up government spending once inflation rates start to seriously cut into the bankers' profits. The Fed will choose traditional default, deflation and the greatest depression. If Congress nationalizes the Fed to force it to keep interest rates low and finance government spending, it will be default by hyperinflation/currency collapse.

[Bigjon]

Hyperinflation won't happen unless Congress nationalizes the Fed. Think about it, hyperinflation hurts creditors the worst, and who are the biggest creditors? The "too big to fail" banks. And who represents the "too big to fail" banks? The Federal Reserve! Right now the Fed is printing money to prop up the government, but there will come a moment, as the inflation gets larger and larger, that the Fed will have to choose between keeping interest rates at 0 by directly funding the government via the printing press (hyperinflation) or stop funding the gov't, let interest rates rise and save the banking system (deflation). If the fed stops buying treasuries, either Congress nationalizes the Fed and the money printing goes into overdrive, or interest rates rise and we have a depression so bad it will make the first great depression seem like a tea party as the banks reposses and seize every piece of collateral in the nation.

All you say is true, except for the deflation that happened in 2008. The banksters own our government and can just print more money to bail out their friends and say FU.

Why would the owners allow themselves to be nationalized?

They want to ruin the FRN and move to a new currency and that is what they will do. They also want to capture all those "capital gains" that we holders of real assets have, so the new currency will be marked to the old FRN and those of us holding property will get to pay all our "gains". If they allow deflation all owners of property will make out including those who hold gold and silver.

[Horn]

To answer this question you simply ask who is the Fed more loyal to? The government, or the banks? I think the Fed is more loyal to the banks, which is why I expect it to refuse to continue propping up government spending once inflation rates start to seriously cut into the bankers' profits. The Fed will choose traditional default, deflation and the greatest depression. If Congress nationalizes the Fed to force it to keep interest rates low and finance government spending, it will be default by hyperinflation/currency collapse.

At some point the Fed won't even want the Fed. I think they're at -2% currently.

Though they will take the assets under a different name.

[iOWNme]

The Weimar Republic didnt have computers. Hyperinflation is when PHYSICAL paper floods the streets.

We have digital 1's and 0's flooding hard drives. BIG difference.


Im not saying bad economic things cant/wont happen, it is just that they can control this much easier than they could say in Germany in the 1930's. We are most likely going to experience a slow gradual decline so you dont get to uppity about it.

[Horn]

The Weimar Republic didnt have computers. Hyperinflation is when PHYSICAL paper floods the streets.

I think many think of the domestic dollar only,

my whole contention is the Fed. has a hard time tracking those dollar notes abroad. And that eludes to, too much black market banking competition that they hate to compete with. They will either rollover to a new privateer, or the nation should nationalize. Which it should.

[madfranks]

All you say is true, except for the deflation that happened in 2008. The banksters own our government and can just print more money to bail out their friends and say FU.

Big difference: all the recent bailouts didn't cause hyperinflation; the FRN still has value, i.e. it can still be used to buy things. Facing a hyperinflation scenario, what good would it be for the Fed to print more money to bail out the big banks? Their "ace in the hole" ability to create FRNs will be worthless.


Why would the owners allow themselves to be nationalized?

The Fed technically is a hybrid government/private institution. The Fed sets monetary policy, not Congress, not the President. If the Fed raises interest rates to any significant degree to put the brakes on inflation, that will put immense pressure on Congress which would no longer be able to "borrow" from the Fed at 0.05% (the lowest current interest rate on T-Bills). What will Congress do when their "lender of last resort" stops lending? They either accept it, cut spending and outright default (unlikely), or nationalize the Fed, take control of monetary policy and keep the 0% game going. Mark my words, if/when the Fed raises interest rates, Congress will not just sit by and do nothing.


They want to ruin the FRN and move to a new currency and that is what they will do. They also want to capture all those "capital gains" that we holders of real assets have, so the new currency will be marked to the old FRN and those of us holding property will get to pay all our "gains".

A new currency is definitely a possibility. Make no doubt they will engineer it's introduction for maximum benefit for them, not us. This is another wild card they could play any time.


If they allow deflation all owners of property will make out including those who hold gold and silver.

Alternately, if they allow inflation all creditors will suffer including the too big to fail banks. And deflation only allows those who outright own their property to keep it. Those who hold mortgages or loans on any property will find their stuff confiscated by the banks. The banks will make out better in a deflationary default than an inflationary default.

[gunDriller]

The Weimar Republic didnt have computers. Hyperinflation is when PHYSICAL paper floods the streets.

We have digital 1's and 0's flooding hard drives. BIG difference.


Im not saying bad economic things cant/wont happen, it is just that they can control this much easier than they could say in Germany in the 1930's. We are most likely going to experience a slow gradual decline so you dont get to uppity about it.

it is a valid distinction, digital money vs. paper money.

however, i don't agree that it can be 'controlled' - unless you call a situation where you have wild daily crime sprees at the highest levels of business & government 'control.'


computers do add a layer of protection / anonymity for the criminals. they are hidden behind a wall of computers, which they program.

[singular_me]

i don't think we'll ever see hyperinflation. i think it's far more likely everyone wakes up one morning and the system is shut off for 4 or 5 hours. then, it's turned back on with a new "monetary" unit.

indeed... the IMF unit, that is. I also think a sudden war with Iran/China/Russia will throw us into a tailspin.

[Neuro]

Yes a creditor would do poorly in a hyperinflation scenario, but I wouldn't put the banks in that category. If the assets (credits) are valued according to what they are actually worth I think all banks would come out with a negative worth, and especially in a deflationary scenario probably their liabilities (debts), would be worth so much compared to the assets, they had to be forced into liquidation immediately! This was what would have happened in 2008, unless Bernanke had printed $16 T and gave it to them to prop up their balance sheets. There are only 2 major creditors Federal Reserve Bank, and China. Federal Reserve Bank didn't spend anything to create the credit, so they will not loose anything on their currency going worthless. Left is China, and I doubt FED's going to lose any sleep screwing them over. Certainly we may see another round of moderate deflation occurring, that would kill the remaining independent banks, and take the houses away from 80% of the population, while the fed keeps the big banks and government working. Then they inflate it all away. The TBTF banks will have most of the real estate. The Federal Reserve and the banker families have most of the gold. Perfect conditions to restart with a new currency.

The deflation scenario I find quite likely now since they announced QE infinity, they just do the opposite of what they said they do, and that's how they maximize profits, by deception!

[chad]

if they have a hyperinflationary event, people lose faith in the system and its handlers. if they have some isolated "event" (terror "attack", etc.) that they can blame it on, they can briefly shut it off and reboot with the excuse being "they had to do it." then, people will still have faith in the system and its handlers, because they've been "saved" from whatever nasty it is. hyperinflation would illustrate that they are incompetent and that the whole system is a sham, and they aren't going to allow that to happen. computers + magic have made this a possible scenario now.

[Bigjon]

Big difference: all the recent bailouts didn't cause hyperinflation; the FRN still has value, i.e. it can still be used to buy things. Facing a hyperinflation scenario, what good would it be for the Fed to print more money to bail out the big banks? Their "ace in the hole" ability to create FRNs will be worthless.


We agree then, there was deflation.






The Fed technically is a hybrid government/private institution. The Fed sets monetary policy, not Congress, not the President. If the Fed raises interest rates to any significant degree to put the brakes on inflation, that will put immense pressure on Congress which would no longer be able to "borrow" from the Fed at 0.05% (the lowest current interest rate on T-Bills). What will Congress do when their "lender of last resort" stops lending? They either accept it, cut spending and outright default (unlikely), or nationalize the Fed, take control of monetary policy and keep the 0% game going. Mark my words, if/when the Fed raises interest rates, Congress will not just sit by and do nothing.


The Owner's refers to the Fed. The Fed is in control, not the other way around. The congress controls nothing, they are all bought and paid for with the pictures to make them stay in their places. The congress will do what they are told to do, we have seen many examples of this in the past few years. CONgress pasing bills they never read Patriot Act, NDAA, Medical, ... CONgress is a bad joke.

The fed won't raise interest rates until they devalue the FRN. They need to make the people demand a new deal. It will be a deal for the banksters from the tribe. The way I see it coming down is a lower value FRN with people living on the edge of chaos demanding something be done. I sure don't know how it will turn out, but I have my guesses. I see the Jews as wanting to impoverish the goys and having all the goy owned banks go insolvent while the Fed keeps their Jewish friends rich, to buy up America on the cheap. This means to me that they have to let the FRN sink until they give us a new currency and the inflated values of the FRN will be captured in this new currency. Once they have this new currency they can allow market forces to raise interest rates. It could also take the form of a FRN used by foreigners and a xxx dollar used by Americans.






A new currency is definitely a possibility. Make no doubt they will engineer it's introduction for maximum benefit for them, not us. This is another wild card they could play any time.


agreed






Alternately, if they allow inflation all creditors will suffer including the too big to fail banks. And deflation only allows those who outright own their property to keep it. Those who hold mortgages or loans on any property will find their stuff confiscated by the banks. The banks will make out better in a deflationary default than an inflationary default.

I don't think the deflation will come until they get a divided foreign / domestic currency or new currency unit.

I'm just brainstorming here and hope I understand or someone will show me the way to the best result down the road.

[midnight rambler]

computers + magic have made this a possible scenario now.

+1

but that'd be fucking magic and not simply magic

[Sparky]

Hyperinflation won't happen unless Congress nationalizes the Fed. Think about it, hyperinflation hurts creditors the worst, and who are the biggest creditors? The "too big to fail" banks. And who represents the "too big to fail" banks? The Federal Reserve! Right now the Fed is printing money to prop up the government, but there will come a moment, as the inflation gets larger and larger, that the Fed will have to choose between keeping interest rates at 0 by directly funding the government via the printing press (hyperinflation) or stop funding the gov't, let interest rates rise and save the banking system (deflation). If the fed stops buying treasuries, either Congress nationalizes the Fed and the money printing goes into overdrive, or interest rates rise and we have a depression so bad it will make the first great depression seem like a tea party as the banks reposses and seize every piece of collateral in the nation.

But the Fed is now the biggest creditor. They have $2 trillion on their balance sheet, and they are now purchasing $60B of Mortgage Backed Securities per month at a price double their actual value. The only way they recoup their MBS loss is via inflation, but inflation hurts their mammoth position in US Treasuries.

There is a compromise solution that keeps all the criminals happy: the big banks, the Fed, and the government. That solution is 5-10% inflation for 10 or 20 years. On average, that means prices will roughly triple over the next 15 years. No hyperinflation, no deflation. And that will devalue the national debt enough to get it under control in terms of revenue. It will be a balancing act, but they hold all the pieces. It's why you hold gold and silver.

[Ponce]

Did you know that the government turned over out land to the IMF by way of the Federal Reserve in 1933 for "future" debts?

That's another reason for my land patent.......no one can touch it, no matter what.

[madfranks]

But the Fed is now the biggest creditor. They have $2 trillion on their balance sheet, and they are now purchasing $60B of Mortgage Backed Securities per month at a price double their actual value. The only way they recoup their MBS loss is via inflation, but inflation hurts their mammoth position in US Treasuries.

There is a compromise solution that keeps all the criminals happy: the big banks, the Fed, and the government. That solution is 5-10% inflation for 10 or 20 years. On average, that means prices will roughly triple over the next 15 years. No hyperinflation, no deflation. And that will devalue the national debt enough to get it under control in terms of revenue. It will be a balancing act, but they hold all the pieces. It's why you hold gold and silver.

You might be right, but again, inflation hurts creditors, deflation hurts borrowers. Through a period of 5-10% inflation for 10-20 years, the fed is repaid with money worth significantly less than the money lent. If deflation occurs, the money supply tightens up and unemployment soars, the fed gets to repossess all the actual assets behind the mortgages, and becomes the owner of the property.

[Neuro]

But the Fed is now the biggest creditor. They have $2 trillion on their balance sheet, and they are now purchasing $60B of Mortgage Backed Securities per month at a price double their actual value. The only way they recoup their MBS loss is via inflation, but inflation hurts their mammoth position in US Treasuries.

There is a compromise solution that keeps all the criminals happy: the big banks, the Fed, and the government. That solution is 5-10% inflation for 10 or 20 years. On average, that means prices will roughly triple over the next 15 years. No hyperinflation, no deflation. And that will devalue the national debt enough to get it under control in terms of revenue. It will be a balancing act, but they hold all the pieces. It's why you hold gold and silver.
That is if Congress would act responsibly and not increase spending at the rate of inflation. No more wars for Israel, reductions in real value of pensions and social security. Fat chance of that happening. They just ridiculed/scared/cheated the one out of the race who suggested that... Turd sandwich left wants to increase social security spending, turd sandwich right wants to increase war spending, and they rule together...

[Bigjon]

You might be right, but again, inflation hurts creditors, deflation hurts borrowers. Through a period of 5-10% inflation for 10-20 years, the fed is repaid with money worth significantly less than the money lent. If deflation occurs, the money supply tightens up and unemployment soars, the fed gets to repossess all the actual assets behind the mortgages, and becomes the owner of the property.
I don't think that this kind of inflation hurts these creditors, because they will be the ones who get to spend the new money first and realize it's full value before the value gets watered down as it trickles through the economy. They need inflation to keep the "capital gain tax" illusion going. They need inflation to make their Collateralized Debt Obligations look good.

[Carl]

Hyperinflation is not cost push or price inflation on steroids, which appears to be Bigjon's theme.


Hyperinflation, as the theory goes, results from the total collapse in confidence and the value of a currency, **and the issuing government's credit, that's primarily the reason why it resorts to printing.


In that situation, nobody holding any value wants it so they attempt to price their stuff out of the reach of the holders of that currency.

Government steps in and prints the difference, prices shoot up again and government responds with printing and distributing the new cash directly into the working economy, on and on until it ends with the streets littered in paper trash that was once your cash...

Now, if the government's credit is no good, then how good do you believe everyone elses will be?

You can't have hyperinflation with a digital "CREDIT" currency...

[Bigjon]

Hyperinflation is not cost push or price inflation on steroids, which appears to be Bigjon's theme.


..

Why do you never bother yourself to READ. The previous post is about 5 to 10 percent inflation. Nothing about Hyperinflation.

[Carl]

Why do you never bother yourself to READ. The previous post is about 5 to 10 percent inflation. Nothing about Hyperinflation. My comment wasn't based upon that particular post, it was based upon all of your posts...

[Bigjon]

My comment wasn't based upon that particular post, it was based upon all of your posts...

Obviously you never bothered to READ any of my other posts, because I never said anything about hyperinflation.

The Fed wants to create a controlled inflation, as that is the best way out for them. It devalues our currency making most of us poorer while destroying the middle class. It makes their assets profitable on the paper they hold, which all look like losers now. It keeps the capital "gain" illusion intact the better to tax us with.

I certainly would not rule out hyperinflation.

Who prints the FRN and who could control a lawless Fed that wished to flood the U.S. with FRN's run off on a printing press by the millions? I remember reading about all the bales of FRN's that were sent to Afghanistan and Iraq, that no one seems to know where they are now.